Phillip Yeo
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If one where to take this tabloid as the mother-of-all-unflattering comment about the NS men, won't this a good time to question the validity of National Service ? Notice how NP preferred to focus in quoting the nay-saying 50% femal populance just to spruce up ah Yeo's position ?Originally posted by iveco:http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/news/story/0,4136,88582,00.html?
Our conscripts have a bad name among their female peers. Now we know why so many of our women are hooking up with FTs and leaving us to settle for Viet ones.
Hmmm....if I am the Chief of Army, I'd a be a little worry how this saga will affect the morale of my 350,000 reserves. Afterall, millions had been spend in adverts about SAF's "Decisive Force". -
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NS is good for the boys so says the policy makers. But the stark truth is theOriginally posted by Gun:If one where to take this tabloid as the mother-of-all-unflattering comment about the NS men, won't this a good time to question the validity of National Service ? Notice how NP preferred to focus in quoting the nay-saying 50% femal populance just to spruce up ah Yeo's position ?
Hmmm....if I am the Chief of Army, I'd a be a little worry how this saga will affect the morale of my 350,000 reserves. Afterall, millions had been spend in adverts about SAF's "Decisive Force".
local girls are calling them whims. Why? Because at 18, the girls are growing
rapidly in maturity, intellect and adulthood whereas the boys are growing physically with maturity, intellect and adulthood put on a standstill for 2 years.
Imo, 2 years of NS destroys the Singapore male's future when the future values brains over raw brawn that NS worships.
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why give a crap about these "scholars"? they're the ones that end up working their butts off for a meagre salary issued by DA non-scholar boss
honestly, people who excel academically NEVER excel in the corporate world they get stuck in lowly paid research jobs for the rest of their miserable boring "scientific" lives. -
Vito_corleone,Originally posted by vito_corleone:why give a crap about these "scholars"? they're the ones that end up working their butts off for a meagre salary issued by DA non-scholar boss honestly, people who excel academically NEVER excel in the corporate world they get stuck in lowly paid research jobs for the rest of their miserable boring "scientific" lives.
Your statement of facts represents a completely honest reversal of views about scholastic excellence as adopted by PSC. In their view which no doubt reflects that of MM Lee, scholars are the talents even if in name or on assumptions Singapore needs to create jobs.
I agree with you that from my own personal observation, scholars are as good as the paper their qualifications are printed on until really they have proven themselves individually in some projects or real-world performance.
However our MM will not listen and insists on his way of presuming scholars to be true talents even after seeing so many non-performance by so many scholars. To me academic ability is just about the only talents our many scholars possess but scholars have been conveniently used politically to further the one-party system in our case for the past 40 years.
What Singapore needs now after so many years of siphoning off scholars for political control is to throw them out to the open and let them prove their worth in becoming entrepreneurs in the real world and then accept them as our potential leaders in all fields. Singapore is now very weak scientifically and technologically behind Korea, Taiwan, Japan and Europe because of such shallow assumptions made about scholars. There has been a major lapse in in-depth judgmental thinking about who are talents and true entrepreneurs for our economic success.
Only having revised our assumptions about scholars into a more practical-minded master plan to turn scholars into real entrepreneurs and technological talents will MM or Singapore succeed in the so-called meritocracy. Without such honest reversal of policy error, we are wasting public monies by all kinds of scholar schemes which come to naught at the end. The old policy about scholars is not convincing or logical as a lot of unproven academic people are being pushed to take charge of responsibility which do not bear results. What is judgmental or presumptuous will remain so for many more years. It is a farce it is still the major policy in today's real world of competitive entrepreneurship and creativity. Sigh !!! -
I think shouldn't we just keep out the gender issue here? Dun forget lor...main decision makers around are like 90 percent comprised to men....
So if the ladies say NS men are whiny, then I guess that speaks for almost every guy who went thru NS rite? Doesn't that apply for those sitting in power? -
I believe the gender issue came about mainly because our existing male talents in civil service came under pressures for non-performance of scholars and some reasons have to be given to the top as a red herring to divert attention to this matter.Originally posted by deathscythe99:I think shouldn't we just keep out the gender issue here? Dun forget lor...main decision makers around are like 90 percent comprised to men....
So if the ladies say NS men are whiny, then I guess that speaks for almost every guy who went thru NS rite? Doesn't that apply for those sitting in power?
The whole economy as a fact, is short of pragmatic entrepreneurial talents in manufacturing, technological developments and activities that really count (or pragmatically not done) to stay ahead in the race as against Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, Japan many of whom are setting up new factories and businesses that make bigger impacts in the world market as compared with our scholars.
Our scholars are only employed in mundane jobs and do not lead or add values of economic significance. Something has gone seriously wrong with the whole meritocracy or scholarship scheme and past mistakes or shortcomings not admitted will sooner or later be exposed to the general public. -
Correct. In fact the best workers around are those who are in the private sector and are of non-scholar breed.Originally posted by vito_corleone:why give a crap about these "scholars"? they're the ones that end up working their butts off for a meagre salary issued by DA non-scholar boss honestly, people who excel academically NEVER excel in the corporate world they get stuck in lowly paid research jobs for the rest of their miserable boring "scientific" lives.
Why? It's because of desire. Most scholar types probably think that since they are so smart, they do not see the need to learn more, no need to work harder than before.
But non scholars see things differently. They believe learning is a non-stop process. Even if you have become an old man, you can still learn things, albeit slower compared to a younger one. Since learning is a non-stop process, they never stop understanding, never rule out anything, always picking things up as they go along and learning from their mistakes and learning from their success equally.
Bosses from the international companies loves these kind of workers as these are the people who can really drive a team and even the whole company foward into bigger and better things. -
I beg to differ. NS should not the issue at all. Thanks to that infamous whims-cum-NS theory originating from this high-profile salesman of government that gave A*STAR an "F" in the eyes of many. This very civil-servant has insulted 350,000 NS men simply over a blog.Originally posted by macjoe:NS is good for the boys so says the policy makers. But the stark truth is the
local girls are calling them whims. Why? Because at 18, the girls are growing
rapidly in maturity, intellect and adulthood whereas the boys are growing physically with maturity, intellect and adulthood put on a standstill for 2 years.
Imo, 2 years of NS destroys the Singapore male's future when the future values brains over raw brawn that NS worships.
We hv yet to hear a single wimper from him since his last outburst became publicised. I wander why he is still hiding behind the skirts of those scholarly talented "beauties" that he had heap praised upon ?
Didn't he realised Ms Chng ZZ 22May SundayTimes statement somehow given him a tight slap in the face ? -
to me i don't care how "smart" you are..if you can make big money you're competent, if you can't make big money you're useless.
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he probably got a lashing from the upper echleons of the government for making such stupid commentsOriginally posted by Gun:I beg to differ. NS should not the issue at all. Thanks to that infamous whims-cum-NS theory originating from this high-profile salesman of government that gave A*STAR an "F" in the eyes of many. This very civil-servant has insulted 350,000 NS men simply over a blog.
We hv yet to hear a single wimper from him since his last outburst became publicised. I wander why he is still hiding behind the skirts of those scholarly talented "beauties" that he had heap praised upon ?
Didn't he realised Ms Chng ZZ 22May SundayTimes statement somehow given him a tight slap in the face ? -
Prolly from MINDEF too..National Security implications man..Originally posted by vito_corleone:he probably got a lashing from the upper echleons of the government for making such stupid comments -
Be careful...he has mastered the art of our political masters well...he might sue again..Originally posted by Gun:I beg to differ. NS should not the issue at all. Thanks to that infamous whims-cum-NS theory originating from this high-profile salesman of government that gave A*STAR an "F" in the eyes of many. This very civil-servant has insulted 350,000 NS men simply over a blog.
We hv yet to hear a single wimper from him since his last outburst became publicised. I wander why he is still hiding behind the skirts of those scholarly talented "beauties" that he had heap praised upon ?
Didn't he realised Ms Chng ZZ 22May SundayTimes statement somehow given him a tight slap in the face ? -
Oh - Screw him. He still hasn't responded to my challenge of a duel! Pussy!
I would have made him feel oh sooooo good. And by feeling good i mean being in agonizing pain. -
Originally posted by robertteh:
Actually, i see the value in using academic excellence as a criteria for choosing people to take up key positions. After all, how else can one gauge the abilitity of another? At the very least, good academics would tell you that the person concerned is not afraid of hard work, and is able to understand abstract issues.
Vito_corleone,
[b]Your statement of facts represents a completely honest reversal of views about scholastic excellence as adopted by PSC. In their view which no doubt reflects that of MM Lee, scholars are the talents even if in name or on assumptions Singapore needs to create jobs.
I agree with you that from my own personal observation, scholars are as good as the paper their qualifications are printed on until really they have proven themselves individually in some projects or real-world performance.
However our MM will not listen and insists on his way of presuming scholars to be true talents even after seeing so many non-performance by so many scholars. To me academic ability is just about the only talents our many scholars possess but scholars have been conveniently used politically to further the one-party system in our case for the past 40 years.
What Singapore needs now after so many years of siphoning off scholars for political control is to throw them out to the open and let them prove their worth in becoming entrepreneurs in the real world and then accept them as our potential leaders in all fields. Singapore is now very weak scientifically and technologically behind Korea, Taiwan, Japan and Europe because of such shallow assumptions made about scholars. There has been a major lapse in in-depth judgmental thinking about who are talents and true entrepreneurs for our economic success.
Only having revised our assumptions about scholars into a more practical-minded master plan to turn scholars into real entrepreneurs and technological talents will MM or Singapore succeed in the so-called meritocracy. Without such honest reversal of policy error, we are wasting public monies by all kinds of scholar schemes which come to naught at the end. The old policy about scholars is not convincing or logical as a lot of unproven academic people are being pushed to take charge of responsibility which do not bear results. What is judgmental or presumptuous will remain so for many more years. It is a farce it is still the major policy in today's real world of competitive entrepreneurship and creativity. Sigh !!! [/b]
However, i feel that one should not look at academic ability to the exclusion of all other criteria. If one has been able to prove himself in the real world, then his lack of academic qualifications should not be a bar to him being given an opportunity. -
I am not of the view that paper qualifications are unimportant. I have to agree with you that academic performance is about the easiest way out for a human resource person to do his or her job.Originally posted by lwflee:Actually, i see the value in using academic excellence as a criteria for choosing people to take up key positions. After all, how else can one gauge the abilitity of another? At the very least, good academics would tell you that the person concerned is not afraid of hard work, and is able to understand abstract issues.
However, i feel that one should not look at academic ability to the exclusion of all other criteria. If one has been able to prove himself in the real world, then his lack of academic qualifications should not be a bar to him being given an opportunity.
However it is a fact that entrepreneurs in society are those with Passions, and abilities who have pursued their vocations well and established their contributions one way or another. These people are not products of our educational systems and are difficult to judge.
Many businesses, industries and jobs in the market place are not as straightforward as prepared by the schools or educational system. Projects engineers, designers and managers in many fields outside are not the same as produced or prepared by construction/engineering courses from the universities.
But our educational system is so general that it emphasises on narrow acquisition of certain subjects and presumes that jobs in the market place will be handled by these students so educated. If a certain broad-based educatioal approach has been adopted there would not be so much hype about scoring of grades in certain subjects of academic nature. There should be more preparations of students in general education plus applications of skills and practical knowledge in various real-life works found in the outside worlds and market place. The latter de-emphasises on academic but practical abilities in applying learning to works and actual business start-ups or projects.
It will take a long time for our system to change to broad-based applications of knowledge at schooling and university educational levels. Dr. Tony Tan has probably read about many postings given to FU on broad-based education and vocational success in Finland, Sweden and Denmark and has recently taken a look there to study their experiences. Such practical preparations and vocational approaches in schooling will produce more entrepreneurs for us to compete with those other countries like Korea or Taiwan in economic competitiveness and use of future technologies. The government should reverse the over-emphasis on getting the highest academic qualifications to occupy all jobs and professions and be more balanced through broad-based education in producing more employable people to meet future demands in job markets. But our leaders are so very persistent in pursuing the academic approach that it cannot open up to broad-based education system which Dr. Tan has mentioned due to many past feedbacks to FU.
In selecting talents or employees to fit civil servive jobs, other criteria for selecting candidates for a job should be open up to include:-
(1) 3-5 years' track records in similar or related positions (2) Interests and related experiences can be judged from candidates' pursuits in works and study courses.
Examples of (1) : Many managers/executives/technicians/ in various fields from marketing to human resource, projects and manufacturing are far more capable in doing a good job than those with certain paper qualifications.
Examples of (2) : New technologies in various areas not well covered by schooling or educational institutions are occupied by persons in those positions from internal promotions or deployments.
However because of over-emphasis on paper qualifications there is a persistent recognition of paper qualifications and grades as if these people are the talents in every field. Even in Human resource and simple accounting, the tendency is to ask for paper qualification and looking at grades.
The people with abilities in various non-tradtional fields given a chance to enter particular fields due to initial lower entry requirements are often our entrepreneurs e.g. Hyflux boss Ms Lydia Lum does not possess the first degree or the highest grade in professional paper in water purifications but through entering her persistent passion and interest in particular field she certainly excels in building her company into our truly indigeneous MNC.
Similarly The best person who discovers or designs something that finally sells in the market place are often not products of educational system but pure interests and passions.
In our society, we follow the meritocracy principle and ask for specific paper qualification in employing or promoting people to the next level. It is not a system user friendly to progress or economic success.
This kind of society lacks entrepreneurship and economic competitiveness. What the government does is to close doors by asking for specific paper qualification in every vocation. It should change the whole education system to allow more practical passionate people to become future entrepreneurs instead of presuming to know everything about the economic and equate it to academic abilities or formal training. -
The one who should be more careful the next is that mouth of his.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Be careful...he has mastered the art of our political masters well...he might sue again..
This saga may not be the last, and certainly has touched raw nerves of one critical institution of Singapore. You don't talk about NS or national security matter when you hv problem within your own organisation.
If Singapore male is the problem, then fix it. Change those scholarship criteria and explicitly state that "Singaporean male may not apply" or something to that degree.
So why did't Chairman of A*STAR do this as he was quoted in ST ?
Would that not address his "fustration" with bond-breakers once and for all ?
Instead, we now see the official media caught in situation to support the official position and protect its own credibility about the interview content with Ch'ng while hving to deal with the reactions from the public on the Internet. -
i guess old mr yeo made that girl his scapegoat..everyone bashed chng but nobody published reports on phillip yeo getting attacked.
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Did you know that Phillip Yeo didn't really serve his NS in a real sense? I have heard stuff from sammyboy kopitiam that PY was only a constable- those typical easy desk job- or something.
So he didn't really learn how to know a gun or know how to shoot properly or know some close combat martial art skills. So now u know PY was such a wimp during his NS period.
Rich pple have all the perks to avoid NS so as to be a future nerd and yes man for the PAP govt. -
Hey, you might want to modify your post. It is one thing to say "A is an arse hole" and another to say "A did/did not do B". THe former is a mere insult, and generally not actionable in defamation, while the latter is a statement of fact that is.
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It is true. I got it from someone(whose name I forgot) who said PY was no more then a constable in the police during his NS period. And a constable is usually a desk job, not a physical one.
So I'm not defaming him that he didn't do NS, I only said he had an easy life in NS police. And considering that the majority of guys here have to go thru tough training in Tekong and other parts of S'pore, his words about local males here being 'wimps' certainly makes him a hypocritic as he himself had an easy desk job when he did his NS all those years ago. -
Is Philip Yeo downgraded? His vocation in his NS life is more or less like those admin assistants at CMPB. Even a cop needs to go through some training regimen in order for him to be able to catch criminals.Originally posted by timothytsgsg:It is true. I got it from someone(whose name I forgot) who said PY was no more then a constable in the police during his NS period. And a constable is usually a desk job, not a physical one.
So I'm not defaming him that he didn't do NS, I only said he had an easy life in NS police. And considering that the majority of guys here have to go thru tough training in Tekong and other parts of S'pore, his words about local males here being 'wimps' certainly makes him a hypocritic as he himself had an easy desk job when he did his NS all those years ago. -
This is the reason why he seems to have been left hanging by a thread, whereas normally the establishment will back him up.Originally posted by Gun:The one who should be more careful the next is that mouth of his.
This saga may not be the last, and certainly has touched raw nerves of one critical institution of Singapore. You don't talk about NS or national security matter when you hv problem within your own organisation.
If Singapore male is the problem, then fix it. Change those scholarship criteria and explicitly state that "Singaporean male may not apply" or something to that degree.
So why did't Chairman of A*STAR do this as he was quoted in ST ?
Would that not address his "fustration" with bond-breakers once and for all ?
Instead, we now see the official media caught in situation to support the official position and protect its own credibility about the interview content with Ch'ng while hving to deal with the reactions from the public on the Internet. [/color]
Screwing around with National Security is a no-no.And not being a combatant gives you less moral latitude to deride NSmen.
The press are choked on both sides.They used to be able to control the situation, now it is harder. -
To motivate and lead a country to success, administrators and politicians alike should possess the moral authority based on objective social, cultural and people-centred principles to make decisions on such nature.Originally posted by LazerLordz:This is the reason why he seems to have been left hanging by a thread, whereas normally the establishment will back him up.
Screwing around with National Security is a no-no.And not being a combatant gives you less moral latitude to deride NSmen.
The press are choked on both sides.They used to be able to control the situation, now it is harder.
Do our administrators and leaders lately have what it takes like the eminence of quality and ability to lead all to a more cosmopolitan and all-inclusive society that the new PM has in mind ? -
The answer is all around us.It's a sad day when people are muzzled for trying to improve one's country.Originally posted by robertteh:To motivate and lead a country to success, administrators and politicians alike should possess the moral authority based on objective social, cultural and people-centred principles to make decisions on such nature.
Do our administrators and leaders lately have what it takes like the eminence of quality and ability to lead all to a more cosmopolitan and all-inclusive society that the new PM has in mind ?