Y not let women serve ns n do minute things
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that's a good one.Originally posted by crazy monkey:you must be one of the wimps she is toking abt
The government should really consider NS for the ladies, especially in first aid. In the event of a war, having a pool of first aid trained people will greatly reduce the strain on hospitals, thus ensuring that severe cases can be attended to asap.
There will always be whiners in society. What can we do about it? Ultimately the whiners will suffer because they did not want to receive survival skills training, if you want to think about it this way. I say, let them whine, Darwin's Theory will deal with them. -
hmmm... you have a point there...Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Your argument does not hold water..the same considerations apply to men.
Guess who is giving first aid to soldiers with legs blown off in war? The medic in your reservist unit may well be an accountant or bus driver ordinarily...hence the need for yearly reservist training.
Hospital staff nurses will remain, NS gals will work as assistant nurses. The training is not that long...our medics have much shorter training cos' they have to handle the physical and military components as well. It will not be new either..it has worked successfully in Israel for many years.
i didn't think bout our combat medics...
1 question though... do combat medics have to deal with as many types of medicines as those nurses in hospital?
i do worry that those girls forced to serve do not take their jobs seriously and make many mistakes... esp with patients medicine...
somehow i dun like the feeling of some spoilt qian jin da xiao jie taking care of anyone in my family...
for eg... a bed ridden patient, will the conscript nurse do a good job of cleaning up the patient after he/she does the big biz on the bed...
also regarding the many medicines that patients take...
if professional nurses can mix up the patients medicines... i cannot trust that conscript nurses make fewer mistakes than professional nurses...
i really dun like this idea of conscript nurses... -
actually i was thinking tat they are to serve in public hospitals...Originally posted by greengoblin:Well if our medics can do it... I am sure they can as well...
I think we can make them medics at the medical centre and free up more guys for combat roles...
However, there is no guarentee that these will change the mindset of girls...
they may just think that all guys who report to medical centre are chao gengers
not in army medical centre...
i think if girls are to serve NS...
they should be made to go through some form of mentality tests...
not all are responsible enuff to be nurses...
those spoilt/cmi one...
throw them to be roadside cleaners... better also... -
y dun bring ur maid to ns?Originally posted by Hells:Y not let women serve ns n do minute things, for eg, cleaning rifles for ns man after live firing exercises, cleaning our uniforms n boots, do the dishes... etc. saves money for saf plus the new generation ladies can learn how to be better housewives.<--------- to tt A'star scholar i hope u will understand the S$%^ tt nsman endure..
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If that were the case, then you can't really trust conscripted medics either at the medical center who can also mix up medicines.Originally posted by hyuuga neji:hmmm... you have a point there...
i didn't think bout our combat medics...
1 question though... do combat medics have to deal with as many types of medicines as those nurses in hospital?
i do worry that those girls forced to serve do not take their jobs seriously and make many mistakes... esp with patients medicine...
somehow i dun like the feeling of some spoilt qian jin da xiao jie taking care of anyone in my family...
for eg... a bed ridden patient, will the conscript nurse do a good job of cleaning up the patient after he/she does the big biz on the bed...
also regarding the many medicines that patients take...
if professional nurses can mix up the patients medicines... i cannot trust that conscript nurses make fewer mistakes than professional nurses...
i really dun like this idea of conscript nurses...
While I'm a front-line combat medic who goes into battle in times of war, I've also worked behind the scenes in my medical center (yes, I've dispensed medications before countless times).... as well as did attachments with SCDF ambulances and public hospitals.
The truth is that conscripted nurses can never expect to have the same level of skills as professional nurses. However, to me, some acceptable level of skills is better than no skills at all. Sure, a conscripted nurse might take several attempts to successfully draw a blood sample from a patient (to use as an example). The end result, though, is that we get to free up the professional nurses for the more urgent and serious casualties.
If anything, the peacetime effects will be favourable as well. Having a large pool of trained first-aiders can be useful in case of domestic emergencies, such as people having heart attacks at home, or a kid with a broken leg. -
u guys wanna hear a bloody sexist statement i once heard in a class debate on women serving NS ?
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ultimately this is a spastic argument. men just pander to their egos.
if only they put in half as much brains into other things as they do into making this sort of stupid arguments... -
Yes. Please say itOriginally posted by bismarck:u guys wanna hear a bloody sexist statement i once heard in a class debate on women serving NS ?
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Medics in our medical centres certainly dispense medication too. If gals are serving national service, they have to take their jobs seriously or they will be charged under SAF Act. There will be black sheep everywhere but that is not a reason whey we should hold back.Originally posted by hyuuga neji:hmmm... you have a point there...
i didn't think bout our combat medics...
1 question though... do combat medics have to deal with as many types of medicines as those nurses in hospital?
i do worry that those girls forced to serve do not take their jobs seriously and make many mistakes... esp with patients medicine...
somehow i dun like the feeling of some spoilt qian jin da xiao jie taking care of anyone in my family...
for eg... a bed ridden patient, will the conscript nurse do a good job of cleaning up the patient after he/she does the big biz on the bed...
also regarding the many medicines that patients take...
if professional nurses can mix up the patients medicines... i cannot trust that conscript nurses make fewer mistakes than professional nurses...
i really dun like this idea of conscript nurses...
Medication is hospital wards are dispensed by staff nurses, so this will not be an issue. Their role will be mainly supportive, such as transporting patients, bathing them, cleaning wounds, etc. In the hospitals, our nurses don;t even have to draw blood or set drips like our medics do. We have phlebotomists and junior doctors for that.
After two years of national service as assistant nurses in public hospitals, the girls will be better trained than many of our medics, although our combat medics have heavier responsibilities. -
Originally posted by fudgester:
since you all feel it can work...Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
then ok lor...
but i feel should add some sort of test to filter out those problematics ones...
even for labour jobs like cleaning up patients...
if not dun properly, these patients may develop sores which may lead to infections...
but my personnal opinion is tat i dun like the idea...
whether it'll work or not is a different thing altogether... -
I think women should serve NS,just like the Israel government did......But not the things as u mention above,what u mention above is putting women as a slave for men,this is not right.Originally posted by Hells:Y not let women serve ns n do minute things, for eg, cleaning rifles for ns man after live firing exercises, cleaning our uniforms n boots, do the dishes... etc. saves money for saf plus the new generation ladies can learn how to be better housewives.<--------- to tt A'star scholar i hope u will understand the S$%^ tt nsman endure.. -
If the above is true then why aren't single women accountable for the following?Originally posted by fudgester:Nah.... if we talk about why women should do NS, they'll come up with excuses like, 'We give birth to babies what... that is our National Service.' and continue to complain that we guys are whiners who can't even afford to give up two years of our lives to make sure that Singapore is a safer place for everyone to live in.Evasion of NS is an offence and the offender is liable, on conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years or a maximum fine of S$5,000, or both imprisonment and fine.
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the question to ask ifor a female's role in NS is: what role do they play in times of war and conflict? Most females are perfectly happy being hearded from bomb shelter to bomb shelter. They will not take up any responsibilities during times of uncertainty.
Furthermore, the threat of war or any similiar threat is so remote that all your previous arguments are more of a fantasy than a survival issue in sg.
At the end of the day, females claim they contribute to the social and economic defence of sg.
Any further attempts to reiterate old arguments is futile and others will start calling us whiney. -
Have been to my share of seminars, and hereÂ’s the official stand as I rememberedÂ…
The primary reason why female conscription for medical/clerical roles is not implemented is because there is already a surplus of personnel in those vocations. Lots and lots of guys with downgraded PES status - all classified as non-combatants.
What the Army needs is more combat-fit manpower - and here is where there's a split in the crowd asking for females to undertake national service. For those that advocate females doing a non-combat role, such a plan lacks feasibility because it will consume precious resources - displacement from economic productivity, training, logistic and accommodation costs, all these costs just to add more manpower to an area that is already saturated.
So in the end itÂ’s either to make the ladies take up combat roles like the Israeli model, or to leave them out totally.
At the moment, how many of those men/women calling for female conscription are actually pro-enlistment of females in combat roles? Female commandoes? Female combat engineers? Female armored infantry?
Making combat troopers out of conscripted females is a sensitive topic. Will the average female be able to contribute to a combat role, or will they end up as liabilities? How to integrate or segregate the sexes if both were on the combat front?
The idea of female conscription is nothing new... its just that the situation is still not bad enough for our leaders to consider drafting the ladies in to hoist the guns. -
That's exactly the point. Not many women are going to enjoy taking up the gauntlet of doing NS and will instead come up with lame excuses to get around it.Originally posted by Typhoon:If the above is true then why aren't single women accountable for the following?
If you want to know, those were the contents of a letter to the Straits Times Forum page by a female reader a few years back. The main point of her letter was that women 'do NS by giving birth'. I remember being incredibly incensed by her remarks as she went on to say that we guys are basically 'having fun' in NS.
You don't forget things like that - even after a few years.
The plain and simple truth is that there can be no such thing as pure gender equality. For that to happen, then we would have to dismantle the Women's Charter and make all women undergo NS, among others. If women want perfectly equal rights, then it is only fair that they share perfectly equal burdens.
*prepares for flaming by ultra-feminists* -
heard some where the men could not bear to see their women killed in the front line. But I guess with sg men, I don't think they would feel at all..Originally posted by Hells:new either..it has worked successfully in Israel for many years."
AGREED. -
heard some where the men could not bear to see their women killed in the front line. But I guess with sg men, I don't think they would feel at all..Originally posted by Hells:new either..it has worked successfully in Israel for many years."
AGREED.
Anyways, this topic has been discussed till damn sian liao...
maybe when technology can make men become preggies ... and that would be an interesting debate. -
but nobody here is suggesting tat women go chiong the frontline...Originally posted by mistyblue:heard some where the men could not bear to see their women killed in the front line. But I guess with sg men, I don't think they would feel at all..
Anyways, this topic has been discussed till damn sian liao...
maybe when technology can make men become preggies ... and that would be an interesting debate.
we're talking bout whether its fesible for women to serve on the support side like nurses or admin... -
Guys are having fun in NS, this statement is unsubstantiated.
If the female equivalent of NS is giving birth, then I believe that there is actually enjoyment somewhere in the process. Perhaps the making of the baby segment, but then again... -
The official explanation is really flimsy. NS is not the same as army services alone. NS is national service and doing service in the army is just oneOriginally posted by bumbleb:Have been to my share of seminars, and hereÂ’s the official stand as I rememberedÂ…
The primary reason why female conscription for medical/clerical roles is not implemented is because there is already a surplus of personnel in those vocations. Lots and lots of guys with downgraded PES status - all classified as non-combatants.
"faculty" of NS. If women can enter the work place like the men and demand equal pay and benefits, the same should also be accorded to women in NS like what the men are put through. That's plain fairness and non-discrimination to any sex. And no one is saying women have to join the men in ARMY NS! There are other faculty of NS for the women to enrol.
I think the leaders would rather not think out of the box but sit real tight in the box (and let the boys suffer) because to open new faculties of NS and do something like NS for women is doing things out of the box and the protests and repercussions from parents and females will be so explosive that the leaders feel it would jeopardise their votes at the polls.
Literally, imo, NS for women is preferred to be buried than a hornet's nest stirred.
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This NS debate is a classical case of women not knowing what they want. Women scream for equality and their main issues are being discriminated against and the glass ceiling.
Women continue to belittle men in certain ways such as the NS issue etc will cause greater discrimination by men. Also, the failure to take up greater responsibility (such as NS) ensures the glass ceiling will always be there.
Furthermore, as long as women want priviledges without the accountability and responsibility, they will continue to be seen as second fiddle to men.
Women also constantly sabotage themselves. While they whine about the glass ceiling, they use tears and sexuality to avoid work or pass work off to others to do. they whine about being equal to men, yet refuse to take up more responsibilities.
Everything they say about "gentlemen" and dating is all a celebration of inequality. Do women want to do away with all that priviledges? -
yeah .. later the men wail, complain that women invade yet another male domain and lament (whine more likely) how it used to be when there was only men and they can strut around and etc. Frankly, i've been in uniform groups all my life unlike other girls who actually turn their nose up and poo poo the idea. Seriously, I don't mind and to me, these kind of service is simply a bit of character building for people. And some girls really need some character building. Seriously, in war scenario, do you truly think the women will sit aside and not do anything? If they did, I would suggest our men shoot them instead. But on the converse (if technology allows), when a girl have a baby, how many guys would enthusiatically proclaim he wish to get pregnant too and experience himself first hand the pregnancy and gush to everyone how wonderful it feels to have crazy hormonal surges, cravings, carry the baby to full term and have a c-section and see how the doc lift the baby out. I think men rather go to war than give birth.Originally posted by hyuuga neji:but nobody here is suggesting tat women go chiong the frontline...
we're talking bout whether its fesible for women to serve on the support side like nurses or admin...
somehow some guys in here like to view all females as vile creatures and threads like this will become gender bashing threads. Have you not noticed there is not much female presence in threads that potentially end up in flame wars. Simply because there is no point. Some of the guys are just too dogmatic and stubborn to even communicate with. -
even in frontline there are things women can do, all those admin stuff like indent ammo, distribute ammo, set up range for practices etc.. repair vehicles.. or even armourers to check weapons.. currently a lot of such jobs are held by combat-fit guys.Originally posted by hyuuga neji:but nobody here is suggesting tat women go chiong the frontline...
we're talking bout whether its fesible for women to serve on the support side like nurses or admin...
drivers also can! the way most women drive on the roads now will make them zigzag targets.. enemies will find it harder to gun them down.. -
So the commander should put all the angry, bloated, PMS-ing women together and they can act like Rambo and gun down all the enemy ... the men stand aside and lah-kopi..Originally posted by commonsense:even in frontline there are things women can do, all those admin stuff like indent ammo, distribute ammo, set up range for practices etc.. repair vehicles.. or even armourers to check weapons.. currently a lot of such jobs are held by combat-fit guys.
drivers also can! the way most women drive on the roads now will make them zigzag targets.. enemies will find it harder to gun them down.. -
firstly as siad women can act in combat role pretty well so askign them to chiong should not really be a problem. secondly if you say no women must be doing backline work instead(sexist!) then i guess they can either share the work with the pes E and C pple and in doing so can either lighten their burden or free some of them from having to serve ns.