Was Jiang Ziya one of their members?Originally posted by Tuatau:The surname Xu with the water radical hails from the Jiang (character representing ginger) clan, a major clan of powerful families in the Shang Dynasty. The clan claimed to have descended from Shennong ("Divine Farmer" ), also known as the Yan Emperor, a legendary emperor in Chinese mythology. Shennong was much revered because he taught people the practices of agriculture, which was at that time a highly-regarded aspect of the society. When the Jiang clan helped King Wu (Zhou Wuwang) overthrow the Shang Dynasty, Wu rewarded them with the fertile state of Xu. After Xu was conquered by the state of Chu during the Warring States period, descendants of the Jiang clan changed their surname to Xu.
Originally posted by DriftingGuy:Peng? I can't recall any common Chinese surname Peng.
How about the following surnames?
Loh or luo2; Peng; Ou yang; Zhu1; Sun1
Originally posted by browniebaobao:Thanks for the clarification. Didn't know whether "Oh" was Ou or Hu in Chinese.
How about 'Hu'?
Originally posted by iveco:It would appear so, as Jiang played an instrumental role as advisor to King Wu (Zhou Wuwang) when the latter replaced King Zhou (Shang Zhouwang) to form a new dynasty. However, the Jiang clan supporting the rebellion was huge and Jiang Ziya was known to be an aloof genius, so it is not confirmed if the two were in any way related. My knowledge in these details is limited, maybe someone else could have come across this in other Chinese history books?
Was Jiang Ziya one of their members?
Originally posted by Tuatau:Thanks for the clarification. Didn't know whether "Oh" was Ou or Hu in Chinese.
Hu was the surname of Hu Gongman, a Zhou Dynasty noble claiming descent from legendary emperor Shun. He belonged to a clan that ruled the state of Chen (as mentioned earlier) before it was annexed by the state of Chu. While most surviving clan members adopted the surname of Chen, there were some who chose to stick with their original surname Hu instead.
Originally posted by browniebaobao:They probably were, more than three thousand years ago.
so can I say that Chen and Hu are related?
Originally posted by Tuatau:They probably were, more than three thousand years ago.
In fact, with new nation names coming up and many clans and families changing surnames here and there during those turbulent times, I wouldn't be surprised if the ancestors of people with different surnames today were somehow related then.
Originally posted by browniebaobao:Thought this was coming, that's why added "more than three thousand years ago".
so people say pple with same surname cannot get married...considered crap la hor? since pple with diff surname might be from same clan or family in the past..
ya right.Originally posted by Tuatau:Thought this was coming, that's why added "more than three thousand years ago".
With that time frame in mind, it becomes rather pointless to argue whether people with different surnames are actually related or not because there really isn't any way we could trace the bloodline for evidence, is there?
However, from a genetic standpoint, inbreeding really isn't good for the offspring. So if it can be avoided, we should try to avoid it if we could help it, shouldn't we?
Originally posted by LazerLordz:There are multiple origins for most surnames, and Bi Gan's son was but one for the surname Lin. According to Chinese genealogical records, there are two other main origins, one from King Ping's (Zhou Pingwang) second son Lin Kai born of a concubine in the Eastern Zhou Dynasty, another from a minority Xianbei tribe whose surnames were summarily changed during one nation-wide surname-changing campaign initiated by King Xiaowen (Xiaowen Di) in the Northern Wei Dynasty.
I did read somewhere that Lin can be traced back to the Qin dynasty where it was a Princely title.
Originally posted by Dr Who:It is only a possibility that a person with the surname of Lin could have descended from the Xianbei minority tribe. Non-Chinese? I don't understand. I know a Miao girl from Guizhou who, when dressed in modern clothes, looked very much like any other girl from China and she holds a Chinese passport.
So it means that if you are a LIM/LIN, your ancestors could be from a minority tribal group...........non chinese/mixed...?
As the y-chromosome is transmitted from the sperm, it means that the original y-chromosome came from the first guy with the same surname? Can a study of genetics/DNA give a bearing to your ancestry?
By the way, I heard that LIU/LAU could be from the Hsiong-Nu babarians who became blood brothers with the royal LIU clan......your views please?..
Originally posted by Dr Who:Non-Han's you mean. Of course after three thousand years, it is pretty hard not only for other tribes not to be absorbed to a certain extent into the mainstream, but also for the Han tribe to claim ancestral purity. We couldn't tell what our forefathers did throughout those three thousand years, could we?
Non-chinese here refers to other tribes outside of the Han tribe.
I think up till now, Chinese identity documents still have a tribal classification, eg Han, Manchu, Mongol, korean, Hui, etc. Except for Muslim tribes, all others have more or less been absorbed into the mainstream.....agree?
Originally posted by suntze:No problem. Glad to help a fellow enthusiast in Chinese history.
Do you have any info why northerners usually refer to themselves as Han ren and the southerners, ie Cantonese and Hokkiens, as Tang ren?