Benedict condemns gay marriages.
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Pope condemns gay marriages as 'anarchy'
And I, lwflee, condemn Benedict for propogating intolerance and bigotry. Shame on him.
Mon Jun 6, 2005 02:49 PM ET
ROME (Reuters) - Pope Benedict, in his first clear pronouncement on gay marriages since his election, on Monday condemned same-sex unions as fake and expressions of "anarchic freedom" that threatened the future of the family.
The Pope, who was elected in April, also condemned divorce, artificial birth control, trial marriages and free-style unions, saying all of these practices were dangerous for the family.
"Today's various forms of dissolution of marriage, free unions, trial marriages as well as the pseudo-matrimonies between people of the same sex are instead expressions of anarchic freedom which falsely tries to pass itself off as the true liberation of man," he said.
The Pope spoke to families at Rome's St. John's Cathedral on an issue that has become highly controversial around the world, particularly in Europe and the United States.
In April, parliament in traditionally Catholic Spain gave initial approval to a law legalizing gay marriage. It is widely expected to be approved by the Senate and to become law.
But just last week, California's Assembly killed off a bill that would have allowed gay marriage in the most populous U.S. state.
The Pope, who as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger headed the Vatican's doctrinal department for more than two decades, said "pseudo freedoms" such as gay marriages were based on what he called the "banalisation of the human body" and of man himself.
(Source:Reuters) -
Most religions strongly oppose gay marriage. Some of the strong oppositions come from the religions of Islam and Catholic.
Western Protestant is somewhat ambivalent about this Sin. Sorry, to those who are Protestant here. This is not an attack on the local protestant. But the fact is this- Western societies are not only so morally corrupted but they are building walls of legality and legitimacy by harnessing the sanctity of religion and the principles of democracy to hide.
I remember reading a newspaper about a Western Anglican Church appointing a bishop who is gay and has gay marriage. The American (even Sg) talks about no to child prostitution. Yes, child prostitution is bad but is child sex any better? Go to any American High School and you find girls and boys below 16 having sex freely.
This to them is freedom of expression. Has it never occurs to them that for some issues black is black and white is white? The Western societies seems to have one set of value for themselves and another for others.
At this point I would say that I am puzzle by the Catholic blanket opposition on abortion. Not even for rape cases? -
I agree with about everything the holy father says except this issue. Also, I feel abortion should be made available to rape victims since this is an extraodinary circumstance.
Already, his unhappiness about JKR's best-selling Harry Potter books before he assumed the papacy is getting on my nerves. -
a child should be brought up with love from his mum and dad.how can u go against nature by having a child brought up by 2 males?the feeling is just so wrong.
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i just tot its wrong forum...
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Better than throwing him down the rubbish chute because you aren't ready to be a parent.Originally posted by stellazio:a child should be brought up with love from his mum and dad.how can u go against nature by having a child brought up by 2 males?the feeling is just so wrong.
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Better than throwing him down the rubbish chute because you aren't ready to be a parent.
I think what he meant is that no love can replace or come closer to that of a natural male father and natural female mother. -
wonder how many gays are inside his organisation.
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At least half, who knows?Originally posted by kops21:wonder how many gays are inside his organisation. -
Benedict is an idiot. He may talk about the past, but this is the present and this is what it is now.
He can talk about how good his religion was during the middle ages and 17th- 19th century but now it's the 21st century.
Benedict has a mouth of BS. Pope or not, this guy is utter crap. -
Some love from same-sex parents is better than no love. I'm not in favour of real gay marriages but if a baby is adopted by two gays or lesbians in a civil union, then its better than nothing at all.Originally posted by pat33:I think what he meant is that no love can replace or come closer to that of a natural male father and natural female mother. -
You should be wondering how many gays are there in this forumOriginally posted by kops21:wonder how many gays are inside his organisation. -
he is only echoing the church tradition. better some flimsy protestant church structures, they stand better den being cowardly ambigous of their stance. right or wrong, at least he got guts to say it out.
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All disabled persons should be culled.Originally posted by Ito_^:he is only echoing the church tradition. better some flimsy protestant church structures, they stand better den being cowardly ambigous of their stance. right or wrong, at least he got guts to say it out.
Do you say at least i have the guts to say it out? Does it somehow make my ridiculous statement any more defensible?
Stop being silly.
Re Ben- What he will do is to turn more people away from his silly organization. Membership is declining and his actions will, imo serve to drive more away. From a leadership point of view, he is also a failure. Instead of trying to keep the organization relevent, he is taking it back into the middle ages.
Basically, he is not only morally corrupt. He is also a lousy manager. -
den do u prefer he goes around making political right speeches, and bow down to those in secular power?Originally posted by lwflee:All disabled persons should be culled.
Do you say at least i have the guts to say it out? Does it somehow make my ridiculous statement any more defensible?
Stop being silly.
Re Ben- What he will do is to turn more people away from his silly organization. Membership is declining and his actions will, imo serve to drive more away. From a leadership point of view, he is also a failure. Instead of trying to keep the organization relevent, he is taking it back into the middle ages.
Basically, he is not only morally corrupt. He is also a lousy manager.
dun be silly, he might as well go be a politician if thats the case.
anyways, silly me doesn't mean he is right, i'm just saying the church should stand by their stance and not bowing down to critics. problem is, he has no style in putting his words across. if they should ambolish their traditions and beliefs wad the hell are they for? -
He weilds tremendous influence. Instead of using his power to propogate peace and tolerance, he is doing the opposite. His stance doesn't necc have to be a politically correct. But if being moral is being politically correct, then yes.Originally posted by Ito_^:den do u prefer he goes around making political right speeches, and bow down to those in secular power?
dun be silly, he might as well go be a politician if thats the case.
anyways, silly me doesn't mean he is right, i'm just saying the church should stand by their stance and not bowing down to critics. problem is, he has no style in putting his words across. if they should ambolish their traditions and beliefs wad the hell are they for?
The church's teaching can be molded through interpretation or selective reading. He chose not to do so. -
initiate proceedings to ex-communicate him? it would be fun to watch
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What 21st century has got to do with morality and sin. Use your brain lark... even in before 17-19th, there were gays already..only that they did not admit publicly. Your mind is so foul that you might as well accept that human and animals be allowed to have sexual intercourse since it's THE 21ST CENTURY!Originally posted by timothytsgsg:Benedict is an idiot. He may talk about the past, but this is the present and this is what it is now.
He can talk about how good his religion was during the middle ages and 17th- 19th century but now it's the 21st century.
Benedict has a mouth of BS. Pope or not, this guy is utter crap. -
Read the article and notice that Pope Benedict condemned the actions and not the people who do them, "civil unions" and not "gays". It's different from saying "disabled people should be culled".
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Well then, I guess that since its the 21st century, orgies, beastality and all things once thought unnatural should not only be condoned, but encouraged!!! After all its the 21st century!Originally posted by timothytsgsg:Benedict is an idiot. He may talk about the past, but this is the present and this is what it is now.
He can talk about how good his religion was during the middle ages and 17th- 19th century but now it's the 21st century.
Benedict has a mouth of BS. Pope or not, this guy is utter crap.
we can do anything, commit any immoral acts, after all, its the 21st century! Dun be a bigot and condemn rape and murder just because you're living in the past, embrace it in the new century!!!
Is that what you mean timothy??? -
The church (and the Islamic faith) is against sodomy, unnatural and same sex intercourse. These acts according to the previous pope, are immoral.
The gays (or by whatever name they go under) are still children of God, still welcomed to church, welcomed by the community.
Just because gays are welcome, doesn't mean gay sex is condoned.
Similarly, just because gay sex is not tolerated, doesn't mean gays are lynched.
As for abortion, the new pope as agreed, is not good with words. I do not speak for the church but I understand the rationale for being against abortion.
As any programmer and computer engineer can attest, you create a system, some idiot will do something stupid with it. You create a calculator program, some idiot will type A+B and expect an answer. You create a mobile with an attenna, some clown will use it to dig his ears.
If the church decides to be ambiguous or allows abortion, how will people abuse this stand? Can you sit back and imagine for a moment? Even atheists can tell you how society will degenerate if abortion becomes a trend.
Why then can't the church give little allowances for rape victims, for this and that...etc...
Like Singapore law, certain rules are not negotiable. Yet like sg(ironically), it will be viewed case to case. Divorce is a strict no no for Catholism, only the Anglicans practise it, yet if the marriage is proven to be so destructive, so intolerable, if it continues, more atrocious acts will be committed, may result in death or permanent psychological damage, the church will nullify your marriage for you.
Of course if you said, I married the wrong person. I dun love my spouse anymore. I got tired of my spouse. Continuing this marriage is akind to torture. I'll kill myself if this marriage continues. These are not valid grounds for the church to accept although you have warped my previous paragraph.
Its the same for abortion. I'm not familiar with any cases and hence are unable to give examples regarding the church allowing abortions. -
Silverpal: The Vatican organisation is just not flexible enough. This happens because the chief decision maker is a greying old man. Any group with an old dude at its helm suffers from total inflexibility, if you haven't noticed.
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I agree with you. The administration and decision making body of the Catholic church is just not dynamic enough to meet the demands and challenges of today.Originally posted by iveco:Silverpal: The Vatican organisation is just not flexible enough. This happens because the chief decision maker is a greying old man. Any group with an old dude at its helm suffers from total inflexibility, if you haven't noticed.
But alas, we have to bear in mind that being a very old establishment, tradition (i know this shouldn't be) tends to be preserved.
Also, the church faces 2 unspoken problems:
Claiming to be THE original faith, they are burdened with ensuring that the system is "perfect" and cannot be abused, ie anarchy or absolute dictatorship. Right now, the pope is the highest authority on Catholic affairs, but he is kept in check by some (i'm not too sure about this) cardinals in a committee.
Facing opposition and indifference from many fronts, the Church stands alone in its (sometimes inflexible) stand on certain moral issues. Christian bodies denounce Catholism as a cult and the pope as the devil. Goverments either ignore the vatican or give token acknowledgement to the church's stand (which seen from the view of the nations, is understandable).
The Vatican is not perfect although as a Catholic, I'm not supposed to say that. The Church's stand has to be consistent and, as the moral authority (supposedly), they have to be rather clear in their stand with no way to pervert the meaning. -
Silverpal: The Vatican organisation is just not flexible enough. This happens because the chief decision maker is a greying old man. Any group with an old dude at its helm suffers from total inflexibility, if you haven't noticed.
I agree with your view. For one old, old man to make so many decisions and to care of so many matters in a fast pace, integrating world...... -
Marriage is for Straight man and woman to be together legally, lovingly, and make babies creating family.
Gay marriage? which of the gay got womb in the anus?
Naturally, morally and logically already it shouldn't be like that.
Even animals know wat it means by looking for an opp gender for pleasure.
Like it was said, sometimes humans are worse den spiders.