Predict SIngapore 5-10 years time
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disastifaction and unrest will rise, as a reult of people becoming more independent thinkers and break away from the monotony of their pathetic, meaningless consumer driven lives
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Yeah, right. As if we can ever Protest.
Before you can utter a word of protest, hypothetically, they'd have your mouth smashed so fast, you wouldn't know what happened. -
5 to 10 years?
Singapore more or less will be the same. Plus, minus some hiccups. The social, political and economical climates will be more or less remain status quo.
As someone pointed out, 5 to 10 years is too short a time frame to gauge changes, especially 180 degree type of changes.
My feeling is that real change will come about only by the next generation. Real social, economical and political reforms, if by peaceful means, can only comes about if the population is ready for it, and most importantly, able to collectively will it.
Those who wish for violent, quick changes will be disappionted. Like someone correctly pointed out. If you try to protest, they will smash you so quick, you won't know what hit you.
Look at our history. We have some violent pasts during our nation formative years. Saw how the police dealt with them? By divide and conquer strategy. They went for the ringleaders and not the runners (learned from the British I believe). Anyway, revolution belongs to the past. Modern technological societies demand logic, synergy and discipline and they are not an option.
Real reform for Singapore will only comes about if there are more and more people in Singapore like Robert Teh. Never mind if your views are different from the government. The most important things are -
1) you have real passion and heart for Singapore.
2) you think through an issue before you put forward your view.
3) you criticize but able to forward constructive suggestion.
There must be critical mass of such people with such thinking. This will only happen when of Singapore has eliminated illiteracy; when all people are well inform; and when all people are confortable with one another.
5 to 10 years nah.... -
I had advocated a rise of a new moderate, centre-left govt sharing similarites with the New Labour of Tony Blair/Gordon Brown or even the 90s Bill Clinton US adminstration(without the scandals of course).
A moderate govt, especially a centrist one usually preaches a stable country, bothstable govt. and pro-people policies and more for a friendly and big market and less govt interference in normal business practices.
What S'pore needs is this kind of govt. The PAP has long abandoned the people and have since only know how to enrich themselves- while keeping up appearances that they still care for the people- a stark facade.
While the PAP won't be overthrown in a bloody revolution, I do hope people don't give up hope in ever wishing that they have more say in the running of the country, their working life and their personal life. If you still think that the PAP can do that, then I respect your choice- but I will never stop trying to convince you otherwise.
If not, then it's mightly wise to just hang it there and stay strong. Even the strongest has fallen before and it will happen to anyone, even the PAP. If we stay strong together, then the PAP will not have much time left. The current system cannot hold on for very now.
And in my reckoning, they won't be able to rule for another 50 more years. Actually I'd love to shove that truth down the Chua sisters'(of ST) throats. -
If you still think that the PAP can do that, then I respect your choice- but I will never stop trying to convince you otherwise.
Am I pro PAP? I am pro Singapore. What I advocate are methodologies, strategical thinking and timing. I just feel that all factors point to no drastic change yet. -
[double post]
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I didn't say nor implied you were. We are all pro-Singapore. And if we want the nation to progress, then we should work together to achieve that aim, regardless of the PAP or not.Originally posted by pat33:Am I pro PAP? I am pro Singapore. What I advocate are methodologies, strategical thinking and timing. I just feel that all factors point to no drastic change yet. -
quote:
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Originally posted by pat33:
Am I pro PAP? I am pro Singapore. What I advocate are methodologies, strategical thinking and timing. I just feel that all factors point to no drastic change yet.
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I didn't say nor implied you were. We are all pro-Singapore. And if we want the nation to progress, then we should work together to achieve that aim, regardless of the PAP or not. -
Hello Pat33,
I notice that a number of people who were able to voice their views objectively without being sold to past old self-promoting leadership or talent approach are increasing nowadays.
At one time, whenever anyone put up an independent view there will be many counter-views to support all the past unworkable and pro-elite policies of the government. Anyone offering constructive views or suggestion will be countered by the conservatives who preferred to see the same old past policies which wrecked havoc and cause high costs and losses of our economic competitiveness today.
So very few people feel motivated to speak or write to offer any suggestions. Now the situation has changed. Many people are more educated and know their rights and better solutions to problems not flogging the dead horses of meritocracy and talents. Real solutions are made of more creative and doable stuff than pure confucianism or moralising holier-than-thou arrogance displayed by our older leaders. Many are now talking about changes to past government policies which do not work as they are too conceptual and one-sided like meritocracy, elitism neglecting nurturing practical entrepreneurship, through broad-based education, and job creations for locals etc.
The greater numbers of forumers willing to speak up and ask for change to all the past humdrum pro-elite policies will form the backbone of the country eventually. They will have to understand the common objectives and continue to gather and refine their views and participate in civic and community events. Even if they do not take part in real politics, their presence is a big plus.
I think for a start, forumers who identify themselves to pro-Singapore agendas like you mentioned are what will safeguard our collective wellbeing. They can be collective at least to support the following agendas for change you mentioned, namely:-
AGENDA FOR CHANGE:
1) Have real passion and heart for Singapore.
2) Think through an issue before putting forward views.
3) Criticize but also forward constructive suggestions. -
Originally posted by pat33:quote:
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Originally posted by pat33:
Am I pro PAP? I am pro Singapore. What I advocate are methodologies, strategical thinking and timing. I just feel that all factors point to no drastic change yet.
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I didn't say nor implied you were. We are all pro-Singapore. And if we want the nation to progress, then we should work together to achieve that aim, regardless of the PAP or not. 
Well, you think it's impossible to do that? To restore Singapore back into the progressive nation we were once was? -
I am all for the progressive past that we have enjoyed so much. Who being pro-Singapore won't?
But as I said, we are talking about 5 to 10 years from now and the reforms of the social, economical and political kind. I am all behind many who call for dual political party representation. But I also see problems coming our way.
1) Do we have dual political party representation before? No. The elites of this country may not necessary have the heart and passion for this nation. During the Sar crisis- mass resignation of doctors. People at the top that we see every day, those who have the talent and the means to bring us forward. They may not automatically do so.
If the elites, with all their talent and abilities are reluctant, who do you think we are left with? And how will they be running this nation? Let alone the subject of prospering us. That is why I said it is important for Singaporean to have heart and passion for Singapore. But are heart and passion enough to run a modern, high-tech society?
2) Singapore has lots of people with good views and feedback. But I wonder how many will actually step forward and serve when comes to the crunch. Sorry to say this- I don't see such commitment in this present generation.
3) As I said, we not only need the quality of the people- people who are literate (so that we can debate meaningfully) but also a sizeable quantity- people who can articulate and think carefully through issues.
These two factors are already hard to find in Singapore. If you are talking about people going to forums like us and post - yes many. But the quantity and the quality of people who really step forward and make themselve count? And not to mention the most important factor, ie people who are committed to our future.
It is never so simple as the people versus the government. If we want dual politcal party representation, it takes time. I see the importance of having Singaporean being ready for it and having the capacities to see such undertaking through. That is why I said we need to have a longer time frame. -
Look back 5-10 years ago and you get a good idea
how life (AND PRICES) will be like 5-10 years from now. -
But one thing is for certain, we, or our friends, or family still be living here. We must always keep a lookout for opportunities elsewhere, for just in case.
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One more thing - INCOME GAP between haves and havenots will widen more. -
yeah, we already have more tissue sellers nowadays.Originally posted by macjoe:One more thing - INCOME GAP between haves and havenots will widen more.
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That's why I said a 15-20 year timeframe.
And in case u didn't know, most of the talented S'poreans who could have made a difference between excellence and mediorce have already emigrated to other countries.
Singapore has had a brain drain for many years- over a decade or more or so. PAP doesn't release emigration figures very frequently because they don't want the rest of the population to know that S'pore has been losing these sort of talent.
The difference between those talents who had left and the current ones is that the 1st group are those who like to be independent. They hate to conform to one standard and they all have different types of talent. Some have talent in arts, some are great business whiz kids, some are great sports talents, some have great leadership potential etc. But because of our conformist society- and fostered by the PAP- they had left. They hated the system and so decided to strike out on their own.
They are no longer S'poreans and most of them don't regret it. The current crop of A*Star scholars are no more than simple bootlickers. They are followers, not leaders. And worse still, some have shown themselves to be quite racist. Remember the guy from NorthWestern Uni in the US who talked about the Indians in his blog?
Or that butch Chng ZZ putting down NS people? All these people can study hard- but there's more to talent than just academic grades. Grades are only part of the judging process of one's talent. It cannot be 100%.
So what if all these A*Star graduates get all As but show racist attitudes and ignorant attitudes, have a sheer lack of leadership skills, maturity, intelligence and intergity , and being hypocritics?
Singapore will suffer under these so-called 'outstanding' A*Star graduates. Mark my words, this conformist society and attitudes will eventually bring S'pore down to its knees. And its not in due part of the PAP, who simply encouraged it so that they could rule Singapore with a bigger iron fist. -
Yo brother, have a little more optimism, will ya?Originally posted by ShutterBug:No matter ho many years, or decades you want to predict, imagine, or whatever;
>> Our lifestyles
>> Our living standards
>> And generally everything else
shall ALWAYS be, PRESCRIBED.
period.
It's so BLAND!!!!! -
IMO SG is outdated in its thinking...We are in 2005, not 60s and 70s...
Most people are educated compared to before and this outdated thinking just results in conflict..... -
No matter what lar,i still think LHL wont make it if LKY is gone.Like i said before,he combine the weakness of LKY dictatorship n GCT egoistic character,how the hell is he going to make it like that?
If let say he got GCT leniency or last time LKY practical character,he still can achieve something,otherwise difficult lar. -
drawer,Originally posted by drawer:No matter what lar,i still think LHL wont make it if LKY is gone.Like i said before,he combine the weakness of LKY dictatorship n GCT egoistic character,how the hell is he going to make it like that?
If let say he got GCT leniency or last time LKY practical character,he still can achieve something,otherwise difficult lar.
I think LHL may have a different side too, but the entire PAP-govt machinery (+ philosophy) is cracking down under strenuous pressure, and is what is causing all this stagnation in our national progress. And of course, LHL's major fault, just like GCT and LKY before hiim, is to cling on to this breaking-down machinery, instead of replacing it. It served us well in the 1960s and early 1970s (before by-elections) but after that, depreciated gradually. But the PAP leadrers refuse to see teh deprecation, and still think it is sparkling new.
the pikamaster -
I think one of the ways we can attract back these talented S'poreans back is to allow dual citizenships. It would mean that ex-Singaporeans who have become Australians, Americans, ctizens of EU countries, Canada and many others who have settled in other parts of Asia will be granted back their former citizenships of Singapore.
Obviously the PAP now doesn't stand for it- but if the PAP becomes fragmented in the future, there might be a chance for that credible opposition party to apply tons of pressure to reverse the ruling.
It can work definately if the current administration weakens drastically after LKY's demise. -
Yup,it is like an emperor making a remarkable achievement during his youth times,but when he is old n senile,he screw things up n still refuse to give up his throne.........PAP still think that they are unreplaceable party.Originally posted by pikamaster:drawer,
I think LHL may have a different side too, but the entire PAP-govt machinery (+ philosophy) is cracking down under strenuous pressure, and is what is causing all this stagnation in our national progress. And of course, LHL's major fault, just like GCT and LKY before hiim, is to cling on to this breaking-down machinery, instead of replacing it. It served us well in the 1960s and early 1970s (before by-elections) but after that, depreciated gradually. But the PAP leadrers refuse to see teh deprecation, and still think it is sparkling new.
the pikamaster -
Frankly speaking, it will be a tragedy if we stand idly by and watch our society collapse.What we have acheived over the last 40 years is in danger of cracking under the very hands that have built it..how ironic.Originally posted by timothytsgsg:That's why I said a 15-20 year timeframe.
And in case u didn't know, most of the talented S'poreans who could have made a difference between excellence and mediorce have already emigrated to other countries.
Singapore has had a brain drain for many years- over a decade or more or so. PAP doesn't release emigration figures very frequently because they don't want the rest of the population to know that S'pore has been losing these sort of talent.
The difference between those talents who had left and the current ones is that the 1st group are those who like to be independent. They hate to conform to one standard and they all have different types of talent. Some have talent in arts, some are great business whiz kids, some are great sports talents, some have great leadership potential etc. But because of our conformist society- and fostered by the PAP- they had left. They hated the system and so decided to strike out on their own.
They are no longer S'poreans and most of them don't regret it. The current crop of A*Star scholars are no more than simple bootlickers. They are followers, not leaders. And worse still, some have shown themselves to be quite racist. Remember the guy from NorthWestern Uni in the US who talked about the Indians in his blog?
Or that butch Chng ZZ putting down NS people? All these people can study hard- but there's more to talent than just academic grades. Grades are only part of the judging process of one's talent. It cannot be 100%.
So what if all these A*Star graduates get all As but show racist attitudes and ignorant attitudes, have a sheer lack of leadership skills, maturity, intelligence and intergity , and being hypocritics?
Singapore will suffer under these so-called 'outstanding' A*Star graduates. Mark my words, this conformist society and attitudes will eventually bring S'pore down to its knees. And its not in due part of the PAP, who simply encouraged it so that they could rule Singapore with a bigger iron fist.
Society as a whole must change their mindsets.Problem is that we have a very educated and vocal minority, but the majority still cannot see the cracks and are quite sure that more good years will come.Without putting all our heads together, this island miracle will be very hard to sustain.
Deny ignorance, look around yourself and look at the lives that you live.Look at your children and ask yourself if you want them to live in a more dire situation?Surely not.
Let's not forget that the nation should come before any political party's fortune or existence.This country needs a fresh injection of ideas and new, radical ways of running things.We need to reach out and open more eyes to the reality in front of them, and hopefully they will be smarter and demand for more accountability.
Policies have to be readjusted to be more inclusive and not those that simply do the square dance from the right foot to the left foot.Facades always fail.It will not be overnight, but I also feel that more and more are not content with being brainwashed into thinking that all is well.
Better to have skeptical people who are willing to give ideas than a cowed, conformist populace that says yes every time an issue or contest comes up. -
If we want the people to see that it isn't just the PAP who have all the 'answers'(or pretend to), then its best we do come out with an alternative policy that not only challenges the assumptions of the ruling party and its supporters but also promises results in both the short term and the long term.
For quite a long time, PAP have already trumpeted that their economic, social and political agenda has always been right and precise. To prove them wrong, we must challenge them on all three fronts, be honest on what we believe has gone wrong and offer solutions- different solutions that not only addresses the real problems that cause it to happen but offer deep down reforms on how to do so.
In addition, in this policy, we not just react to what we see, but we see in a long term future and try to imagine the unimaginable- especially when comes to the future. A good policy doesn't just try to promise "more good years" and a "Swiss standard of living by 2000" but it also emphasis more on decisive action, good strategy, swift execution and also an eye on the future, irrespectively good or bad.
In this policy, we will also link up on how social policy affects on the political and economic agenda of all parties and of all citizens and vice versa. In this way, we will not just promote democracy at the expense of social values and insecurity or economical freedom in return for economic and social chaos or company exploitation etc. We need to show how a more creative environment affects one's wage packet and one's social and political freedom or how a vibrant healthy private sector staffed with enterprising SMEs and with MNCs will affect the political culture of Singaporeans.
Or even how religious harmony can promote religious respect between people of the same faith and even different faiths. And how all of that can contribute to the social lives of all Singaporeans.
We can also offer ideas on how each S'porean child, when brought up in a more open environment, will not only learn just family values but also gain a great sense of knowledge through constant learning. And when he grows up, he will not only be a sense of pride to the family in whatever job he's doing, he will also be happy personally as well.
The promotion of individual rights should go hand-in-hand with the overall family value system, I feel and that's how we should go about it.
To beat the PAP, we must beat them in their own game. And if the PAP starts to crumble, we must be prepared to strike. Of course, we cannot just strike anyhow or aimlessly like a headless chicken. That's why we need a sound yet alternative policy.
In the same way Bill Clinton did when he decided to run against George Bush(Senior) in 1992- when Bush Sr was still running high in the opinion polls of 91. -
I will support anyone interested in establishing a non-political active citizen club or society offering active citizens an opportunity to contribute their passions, knowledge and services for the following agenda of change.
(1) To establish a non-political pro-Singapore Active Citizens Panel whose principal objectives include inputs of ideas and solutions for implementation by the government and social agencies to build a vibrant and competitive society.
(2) Membership criteria include abilities to come up with ideas and suggestions to formulate new political strategy for political renewal and change.
(3) To formulate new-age solutions to social and economic problems facing Singapore in the years ahead with a view to building a vibrant and competitive nation, open to participation by all irrespective of race, religions or affiliations.
(4) To offer checks and balances through participation in various panels, forums and associations to build a competitive new nation.
(5) To make recommendations to adopt a New Constitution (7 points of democracy to assure openness accountability and civic participation)
(6) To put up a Framework of Major Legislative Reform.
(7) To establish a political think-tank with participation by all.
Any one interested in forming a protem committee may contact me. email: [email protected]. For further announcement, please look out for releases under Definition of True Democracy thread or a dedicated thread to be decided later.