What is the role of union in Singapore today
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Hello Agressor,Originally posted by Agressor:Thank you robertteh, this is the point I am trying to raise. With more manufacturing moving out of Singapore, and more low end jobs on contract basis, more management and white collared jobs in Singapore, the number of employees eligible to be "Unionise and protectable" has drastically reduced till such a point that Unions seems to be redundant. They should evolve or "reinvent" themselves to suit the current situation.
What you have said is a fact. It is a plain fact that Singapore workers are pawns on the bigger economic chest board. MM Lee once compared the scenario to "big fish eat small fish and small fish eats shrimps"
Workers have little or no say. The top union deputies regularly appear on TV to give advice exhorting workers to change mindsets and lower expectations.
There is a lack of level playing field for the workers. No one is really interested to protect the workers. Ministers spend most of the time talking about how important are the foreigners or employers. The latter is being widely regarded as the part that needs protection.
Under such circumstance, the workers are the scapegoats. Despite their earning low wages hardly sufficent for three meals, they are the ones to give up wage increments. CPF cuts and variable wages were all schemes to combat high costs as recommended by a 2003 committee headed by Ms Pung Ying Ying came so as to lower workers' wages further based on variable wage structure. Workers again were presumed to be the ill of our economic problems.
No objective survey has been done. Yet without really understanding the true cause of our economic slackening in recent years, the blame was put on the unprotected nd helpless workers. All kinds of excuses were given to excuse the highly paid ministers from accountability or problems. Workers were to retrain and not to be too choosy while the doors were open full to admit foreign workers to all industries irrespective of possibility of abuse by penny-pinching employers.
I recent years, the workers' wages did not rise as much as the wage costs of iron-ricebowler ministers and top civil servants and GLCs since the 1980s when the top civil servants and ministers' wages were pushed to surpass the bests in the private sector. An equivalent managerial position in the civil service despite being iron rice bowl and mundane were at least paid one third to two third higher than in the private sector.
No wonder the public sector wages are presently taking up to 8-12% of GDP. So SIA and PSA must reduce their wage costs at certain level but not the public sector. Why PSA and SIA? Because these two GLCs were exposed to private sector competitions. Every blame is put on someone else other than the public sector's high and uncompetitive wage levels.
So with the above-stated facts, who is causing loss of economic competitiveness? Are the workers the real culprits or senior civil servants Ministers and all the political appointments.
The loss of economic competitivenes is principally attributable to wrong education policy in the past and sustained 20-years talent wage push for the senior management in the public sector.
At 8-10 % of GDP, civil service wage costs can only be met by continuously increasing government fees and taxes. On top of this cost burden, the ministers and MPs will enjoy life-long permanent incomes after two terms of service.
So who is causing loss of economic competitiveness and high costs in Singapore - workers or ministers and MPs? Any one with some business experience will be able to tell you that civil service and ministers are being over-paid by more than one-third of equivalents in the private sector.
The above-mentioned feedbacks were given to Feedback Unit sometime back with suggestion to lower ministers' unrealistic high pays and not to blame on the already subsistent workers' wages.
Despite paying all the talents the world's highest wages they have failed to rescue the moribund economy or upgraded our competitiveness and jobs since the Asian Financial crisis and last two recessions.
But look around again. while humble leaders in Finland, Switzerland and Korea are creating world products or attracting new businesses to their countries without all the self-aggrandizement and boast about the leaders talents and abilities as being done in Singapre. They only know how to publicise their talents and abilities without achieving anything worthwhile.
Let all Singaporeans decide whether the workers' sacrifices have been worth it - accepting lower pays, CPF cuts while the ministers and senior civil servants continue to clamour for more and more pays and perks of all kinds.
Have our leaders delivered while seen daily talking about their own scholar talents and abilities. Have they looked after the interests of workers?
Is it worth our taxpayers' monies to pay them high wage costs with little or no actions. How to pay the world's highest wages and continue to pay their permanent incomes after two terms? These are serious issues and problems while we are hearing their excuses about the losses of economic competitiveness and their shirking of responsibilites. -
Dear Archirodon
A union for workers must do what workers unions do, for it qualify as a union – simply calling an organization a union does not make it one.
What is a union? By dictionary definition, itÂ’s an organization of workers formed for the purpose of advancing its members' interests in respect to wages, benefits, and working conditions
In other words – unions are for the protection of the interests of the workers. The interests of our nation and our economy is supposed to be safeguarded by our Ministry of Trade and Industry.
The messy riots earlier in our history are commonly quoted as justification for the iron control over unions in Singapore. Let us not forget that the Hock Lee bus riots were instigated by Communist elements – their motive was not better worker benefits but social chaos in order to create a revolution. Is this a suitable case study to justify that non-government controlled unions cannot work?
Active, independent unions can exist without destabilizing the economy. Militant unions are a problem no doubt, but an entire spectrum exists between that model and that of our NTUC at the far opposite end.
A real union seeks to balance the interests of the workers and the needs of businesses to remain healthy and profitable. By looking around the newly industrialized nations to the first world countries it is clear that it is far from impossible for unions to work in the context of Singapore and support the interests of the average Singaporean worker – without bending over and blaming the workers while calling for pay cuts on the behalf of the employers at the drop of the hat. -
i am not union member. i dont quite agree with Archiron point of view. im not so educated but something i feel is not right in singapore esp the tripatite system.
firstly a union leader should not join any political party. they should not wear 2 hats. they should stay neutral and concentrate on the wellbeing of felllow union member.
NTUC indeed has manage to control almost all smaller union in singapore. they suceeded it with the help of the govt. i dont need to mention why they did so.
they union leader have themselves to blame. indeed why worry for the union member when they are not fighting it for themselves. sorry i never attended unionist meeting but can someone enlighten me whether they is serious arguement by union member to challenge the management of the NTUC during AGM or EGM?
singapore might be progressing into first world nation. but what they are leaving behind are a majority of lowly paid union member singaporean being left behind to fight and stay alive for yet another day. -
First World????Originally posted by Archirodon:First of all, I would like to state my position. I'm not pro-gov nor a union member. I'm just an ordinary citizen in the red dot.
The role of Unions in SG is very different from the other countires. We cannot stereo type unions' role by comparing them with other countries, who are rich in natural resources.
Our only resources in SG is human. Therefore, we depend on foreign investments for survival. We have to look at our predicament from a higher perspective. If our unions are going to be like those in Aust. who goes all out to fight for their workforce, we are going to lose lots of foreign investors. How many companies will want to invest their money here when riots, downtools, strikes, boycott,...etc happens now and then. We can't survive with such environment.
It is rather obvious that the tripartite system is just an eyewash. How many times did our unions call for a strike? The most recent issue of SIA - Pilot unions ends with our Big Bro stepping in. But it was for the interest of our national airline and the country as a whole. We can only sympathised with those who are affected.
The only way our unions can show their relevance in SG is to provide services to control prices of our goods and services. I would think they did a good job in Insurance. But they had killed a lot of provision shops in our neighbourhood. Nothing much we can do about it. We can only think positive and take the advantage to benefit from the services they provide.
With integrity in PAP and NTUC, the unions have serve their unique role in attracting foreign investors. On conclusion, they (unions) are just part of the Gov system to lead SG into being a first world country.
What a shame shameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshameshame 
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Without our neighbours, Singapore will not be today. Without resources from our neighbours how are we doing trading? We should thank our neighbours. especially Ex-President Suharto.Originally posted by Archirodon:First of all, I would like to state my position. I'm not pro-gov nor a union member. I'm just an ordinary citizen in the red dot.
The role of Unions in SG is very different from the other countires. We cannot stereo type unions' role by comparing them with other countries, who are rich in natural resources.
Our only resources in SG is human. Therefore, we depend on foreign investments for survival. We have to look at our predicament from a higher perspective. If our unions are going to be like those in Aust. who goes all out to fight for their workforce, we are going to lose lots of foreign investors. How many companies will want to invest their money here when riots, downtools, strikes, boycott,...etc happens now and then. We can't survive with such environment.
It is rather obvious that the tripartite system is just an eyewash. How many times did our unions call for a strike? The most recent issue of SIA - Pilot unions ends with our Big Bro stepping in. But it was for the interest of our national airline and the country as a whole. We can only sympathised with those who are affected.
The only way our unions can show their relevance in SG is to provide services to control prices of our goods and services. I would think they did a good job in Insurance. But they had killed a lot of provision shops in our neighbourhood. Nothing much we can do about it. We can only think positive and take the advantage to benefit from the services they provide.
With integrity in PAP and NTUC, the unions have serve their unique role in attracting foreign investors. On conclusion, they (unions) are just part of the Gov system to lead SG into being a first world country.
We have God gifted with natural deep port and situated in the centre of the world. Which Sir Stamford Raffles found our island millions of years ago (not LKY), Raffles has made it an important trading port within the region. Our singapore could made it today was due the up trend of the world economy after the WW2 whch many countries started re-construction, electronics production, advancement in technologies and trading from east to west and vice-versa. So as political leaders, anyone would know how to take these opportunites to revive singapore by inviting foreigners to set plants and factories here to process raw materials with cheaper labourers and send back or to wherever the most convenience at low cost. Goh Keng Swee an Toh Chin Chye, Lim Kim San and some others did a Great Job here!!!
Someone also enjoyed the incredible giant fortune that created for himself, family and relatives.
He LKY is not the greatest leaders. We, singaporeans and our ancestors were the greatest people to help in building singapore!!! -
friend, it's called NTUCOriginally posted by SnowFlag:Is there a really worker's union in singapore?
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union action can protect members from the unfair practices of businesses. however, union action can also kill businesses and economies. The recent collapse of Rover cars in the uk is largely attibutable to unions pressuring the government to prop up an ailing car maker, just becos the ruling party wants to gain the favour and votes of these union members.Originally posted by Agressor:With most companies employing contract staff, what is the role of union in Singapore today, since most of the contract staff are not allowed to participate or benefit from a union. -
in singapore, NTUC members will never habve the balls to rally the government or PAP to prop up their employer's business. but it has worked very well here in singapore. PAP has effective policies,NTUC has cooperative members who are also loyal PAP voters. haha!Originally posted by dryver:union action can protect members from the unfair practices of businesses. however, union action can also kill businesses and economies. The recent collapse of Rover cars in the uk is largely attibutable to unions pressuring the government to prop up an ailing car maker, just becos the ruling party wants to gain the favour and votes of these union members. -
Erm, from what I heard over BBC radio some time back, Rover's collapse was a smaller-scale ersion of Enron. The venture capitalists who engineered the buyout of the Rover Group from BMW misled shareholders or something.Originally posted by dryver:union action can protect members from the unfair practices of businesses. however, union action can also kill businesses and economies. The recent collapse of Rover cars in the uk is largely attibutable to unions pressuring the government to prop up an ailing car maker, just becos the ruling party wants to gain the favour and votes of these union members.
Whatever the case, unionism should always seek to get the best deal for its members. Workers who have done NS should only be retrenched as a last resort in recognition of their contribution to our defence. It was ironic that Alpas needed a PR to agitate for a sweeter deal for members who had served in the military. -
right rightOriginally posted by iveco:Erm, from what I heard over BBC radio some time back, Rover's collapse was a smaller-scale ersion of Enron. The venture capitalists who engineered the buyout of the Rover Group from BMW misled shareholders or something.
Whatever the case, unionism should always seek to get the best deal for its members. Workers who have done NS should only be retrenched as a last resort in recognition of their contribution to our defence. It was ironic that Alpas needed a PR to agitate for a sweeter deal for members who had served in the military.
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To bring in investors and create employment - MOT, EDB, AstarOriginally posted by iveco:Whatever the case, unionism should always seek to get the best deal for its members. Workers who have done NS should only be retrenched as a last resort in recognition of their contribution to our defence. It was ironic that Alpas needed a PR to agitate for a sweeter deal for members who had served in the military.
To ensure workers' benefits - MOM
To provide recreation - MCYS
To sell vegetable at above average price or so call fair price - NTUC
The only benefit I see the NTUC had provided for the members / workers is that when they get retrenched, they can always apply to become NTUC Taxi Drivers. -
Originally posted by Agressor:
To bring in investors and create employment - MOT, EDB, Astar
To ensure workers' benefits - MOM
To provide recreation - MCYS
To sell vegetable at [b]above average price or so call fair price - NTUC
The only benefit I see the NTUC had provided for the members / workers is that when they get retrenched, they can always apply to become NTUC Taxi Drivers. [/b] some people are just so easily bought over eh???