Predict what will happen when LKY is no longer around`
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To be fair, LKY rose to the occasion and calling of his time and did his job well for the survival of the masses and creating wealth. It was relevant during those times.
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every country has its problems. our tax is not as high as australia.Originally posted by HarryPussy:This is the greatest joke of the day. Cheap prices for HDB flats???? With 200k, i can buy a 2-storey detached in Perth with a swimming pool.
Honeybunz, u are really happy to be livingb in ur pigeon hole? Wanna cum to my luxurious bungalow in Perth, i invite u. I pay only 1Million and i get a 15,000 sqft bungalow with swimming pool, sauna, Indiania Ocean Sea View...
U will never wanna go back to that pigeon hole of urs ever again
good or bad depends on what each individual wants. if a luxurious bungalow is all you ask for then of course singapore is not as good a place as australia. -
Yeah, during those times.Originally posted by Xprobe:To be fair, LKY rose to the occasion and calling of his time and did his job well for the survival of the masses and creating wealth. It was relevant during those times.
What worked out in the past will not necessarily work today. Times have changed. Everyone has to move on, even LKY himself. -
Ok here, now in the modern Singapore we have the luxury of having so many things like computer, MP3, radio and etc. If not for LKY and his team doing, Singapore will not be like that today and will be like Malaysia or Indonesia still developing. Your can have the pleasure and time using this technology to write all the crticism on the government which we are allowed here but not to the extend. If we don't have this technology and still backward and want to complaint. How to do it? Do in violence and fighting break out and not having peace. You all don't want to have this right?? We should be grateful for LKY and his team and not crticisng as they build up Singapore to become a high-tech country and if want to complaint do it in a peaceful way and everyone benefit like that. So you all should be happy to be in this state now even though there is some harsh laws by the government. Our Life is better now than the 60s and if not for him we today complaint the government also but also worrying about yourself without food, job etc. So think carefully before action
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Duplicate Post
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to be fair the PAP has indeed done a great job in bringing singapore to what it is today. of course LKY is not the only one who deserves credit. a good leader needs good people too. there are/were many others.
but there is also no denying that there are flaws in many policies, especially evident now. -
Eh...our tax not as high as australia?? Hmm...what abt alternate tax...like GST, ERP, High petrol cost, high housing cost tat's sucking s'porean high n dry??Originally posted by dragg:every country has its problems. our tax is not as high as australia.
good or bad depends on what each individual wants. if a luxurious bungalow is all you ask for then of course singapore is not as good a place as australia.
To be frank, i have lived extensively in both countries and assuming with 3000 bucks (the currencies abt the same in both countries)...my quality of life is much much better in aussie land. I have my own landed house, brand new car and still have much to save. In singapore, cant even start a family, got to get my parents to down the deposit for my 4room hdb flat...
Try talking to the hdb heartlander, everywhere i heard is complains... -
How about puuting LKY to run Malaysia or Indonesia??? You think he can manage like singapore? My ballsOriginally posted by gorby107:Ok here, now in the modern Singapore we have the luxury of having so many things like computer, MP3, radio and etc. If not for LKY and his team doing, Singapore will not be like that today and will be like Malaysia or Indonesia still developing. Your can have the pleasure and time using this technology to write all the crticism on the government which we are allowed here but not to the extend. If we don't have this technology and still backward and want to complaint. How to do it? Do in violence and fighting break out and not having peace. You all don't want to have this right?? We should be grateful for LKY and his team and not crticisng as they build up Singapore to become a high-tech country and if want to complaint do it in a peaceful way and everyone benefit like that. So you all should be happy to be in this state now even though there is some harsh laws by the government. Our Life is better now than the 60s and if not for him we today complaint the government also but also worrying about yourself without food, job etc. So think carefully before action -
he can only manage countries where citizens accept policies with unquestioning obedience. like S'pore inc or Japan inc. not a tough job. he not around, we find Forrest Gump to replaceOriginally posted by Lowclassman:How about puuting LKY to run Malaysia or Indonesia??? You think he can manage like singapore? My balls -
i agree with you that our cost of living is too high. but again it depends on the individual. you are not an aussie even if you get a australian citizenship, regardless of how well you adapt. there are always pros and cons. many singaporeans choose to stay because their parents and friends are in singapore. if landed property, brand new car and money is what you desire then of course australia is probably the choice for you.Originally posted by HarryPussy:Eh...our tax not as high as australia?? Hmm...what abt alternate tax...like GST, ERP, High petrol cost, high housing cost tat's sucking s'porean high n dry??
To be frank, i have lived extensively in both countries and assuming with 3000 bucks (the currencies abt the same in both countries)...my quality of life is much much better in aussie land. I have my own landed house, brand new car and still have much to save. In singapore, cant even start a family, got to get my parents to down the deposit for my 4room hdb flat...
Try talking to the hdb heartlander, everywhere i heard is complains... -
If you compare the development of Singappore to African and south america countries and Indonesia, we are definitely better. I wouldn't want to compare to Malaysia though. I don't see the standard of living any lower in Malaysia.Originally posted by gorby107:Ok here, now in the modern Singapore we have the luxury of having so many things like computer, MP3, radio and etc. If not for LKY and his team doing, Singapore will not be like that today and will be like Malaysia or Indonesia still developing. Your can have the pleasure and time using this technology to write all the crticism on the government which we are allowed here but not to the extend. If we don't have this technology and still backward and want to complaint. How to do it? Do in violence and fighting break out and not having peace. You all don't want to have this right?? We should be grateful for LKY and his team and not crticisng as they build up Singapore to become a high-tech country and if want to complaint do it in a peaceful way and everyone benefit like that. So you all should be happy to be in this state now even though there is some harsh laws by the government. Our Life is better now than the 60s and if not for him we today complaint the government also but also worrying about yourself without food, job etc. So think carefully before action
But I think we should compare ourselves to more relevant countries or cities like Japan, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur and even China (Shang hai, beijing, guangzhou etc). Whatever benefits you wrote up there, people in those places enjoy as well. No doubt LKY and PAP made Singapore a not-so-corrupted country, but as for the economic success, I think their contribution weren't much, just a matter of following textbook and economists' recommendation. Singapore in the 50s, 60s, 70s, is just riding with the after-war-world 2 economic boom experienced by many countries.
Try travelling more will ya? and take what was written in our local media with a BIG pinch of salt -> for example, many Singaporeans believe China Chinese are very hardworking. NOT SO. Many of them enjoy 8-5pm work life balance and 5 working days! Another misconception is China media very restrictive. Again NOT SO. China media did alot of social work by exposing many im-moral businesses and government officials. In Singapore what? Just NKF?
So let me repeat again. Travel more and you will see that Singapore is not very much different from KL, Beijing, Shanghai, Japan, etc. -
Without LKY, I will probably be living in a kampong and now cutting rubber tree barks at the rubber plantation, instead of comfortably surfing internet in an air con room..
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i am sure a lot of people are frustrated at what is going on. (tight job market, high cost of living, overworked and whatnot) but i noticed you are extremely negative about singapore. care to share the reason?Originally posted by Cindyfeh:If you compare the development of Singappore to African and south america countries and Indonesia, we are definitely better. I wouldn't want to compare to Malaysia though. I don't see the standard of living any lower in Malaysia.
But I think we should compare ourselves to more relevant countries or cities like Japan, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur and even China (Shang hai, beijing, guangzhou etc). Whatever benefits you wrote up there, people in those places enjoy as well. No doubt LKY and PAP made Singapore a not-so-corrupted country, but as for the economic success, I think their contribution weren't much, just a matter of following textbook and economists' recommendation. Singapore in the 50s, 60s, 70s, is just riding with the after-war-world 2 economic boom experienced by many countries.
Try travelling more will ya? and take what was written in our local media with a BIG pinch of salt -> for example, many Singaporeans believe China Chinese are very hardworking. NOT SO. Many of them enjoy 8-5pm work life balance and 5 working days! Another misconception is China media very restrictive. Again NOT SO. China media did alot of social work by exposing many im-moral businesses and government officials. In Singapore what? Just NKF?
So let me repeat again. Travel more and you will see that Singapore is not very much different from KL, Beijing, Shanghai, Japan, etc. -
GST is only 5% in Singapore. Housing cost is not high, considering the fact that we do not have much land here. At least, most ppl can afford a decent flat to live in, with the help of CPF. You may think that government is sucking us dry by forcing us to save money in CPF. But we have to admit that this generation is so spoilt that we do not know how to save anymore.Originally posted by HarryPussy:Eh...our tax not as high as australia?? Hmm...what abt alternate tax...like GST, ERP, High petrol cost, high housing cost tat's sucking s'porean high n dry??
To be frank, i have lived extensively in both countries and assuming with 3000 bucks (the currencies abt the same in both countries)...my quality of life is much much better in aussie land. I have my own landed house, brand new car and still have much to save. In singapore, cant even start a family, got to get my parents to down the deposit for my 4room hdb flat...
Try talking to the hdb heartlander, everywhere i heard is complains...
ERP, High petrol cost .... Well, if a person chooses to live in luxury of driving to and fro work every day, ERP and petrol cost is nothing to him (it is his choice after all). Likewise, if you choose to live in the private condo, you cannot complain paying the high maintenance fee every six months cuz it's your choice.
If you complain about insurance and road tax, how much is it every year? It is nothing, compared to having to pay 40% income tax every year, right? If you earn $4000 a month, $1600 goes to govt's pocket. Since income tax is only paid once a year, can you imagine every year, when the income tax filing is up, you have to start scratching your head, thinking of how to pay the 5 digit figure of income tax. Even our AWS and variable bonus can't cover that.
But of course, it is personal perference. If you prefer to own a landed property (owning a landed property in Aust, which is so cheap) and buy cheap cars, and at the same time, don't mind paying income tax with almost of your salary, then of course Aust is anytime better. -
Sure dragg. You can refer to this thread:Originally posted by dragg:i am sure a lot of people are frustrated at what is going on. (tight job market, high cost of living, overworked and whatnot) but i noticed you are extremely negative about singapore. care to share the reason?
http://sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=143316&page=1
Basically its about Singapore having zero natural resource and Singaporeans need to work long hours as a result of that. -
Japan, Brunei, Malaysia, blah blah all don't have LKY, I don't think too many people there are cutting rubber tree barks. I think LKY's effect is less corruption not really good economics.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Without LKY, I will probably be living in a kampong and now cutting rubber tree barks at the rubber plantation, instead of comfortably surfing internet in an air con room..
To sgdiehard's post below,
It really depends on what individual wants. The will always be debates on why people want to migrate and why some want to stay. You have your points and I have mine.
Thanks for bringing my grandfather into the picture. But he is not LKY, so its quite irrelevant.
By the way, can you share why is it difficult to raise a child in KL? in terms of study, child happiness, and future potential. You can mention about the biaseness of the system towards bumiputra but i think most in Singapore know about this. -
I lived two yrs in KL, just sold the condo at Tamah Seputeh, tell me how you compare singapore with KL?? KLCC, mega mall, bukit bintang, jalan pertaling are no difference from any cities, but try raising a child in KL.Originally posted by Cindyfeh:If you compare the development of Singappore to African and south america countries and Indonesia, we are definitely better. I wouldn't want to compare to Malaysia though. I don't see the standard of living any lower in Malaysia.
NKF is indeed a big lesson for singaporean and it just remind us that our society is by no mean better than any other societies in the region. we have our life style, and misconception about other societies? there will always be. If you have travelled as widely as you claim, why don't you show some comparisons about the different societies in the region, anything singapore can learn and do better?
But I think we should compare ourselves to more relevant countries or cities like Japan, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur and even China (Shang hai, beijing, guangzhou etc). Whatever benefits you wrote up there, people in those places enjoy as well. not very much different from KL, Beijing, Shanghai, Japan, etc [/quote] In China, you get everything cheaper but are you sure of the quality or if these are not fake? do you pay the same prices in Japan for the same items you buy here? Ever look at how much it costs to buy a small apartment in japan and hong kong? Ever heard of having to buy parking lots if you want to own a car? In australia, can you afford a maid?
every country, every city is different, nobody has everything and nobody has nothing! Appreciate what you have.
why din yr grandfather follow the textbook and economists' recommendation and today you might the heir to the throne? such over simplification shows great disrespect to all singaporeans involved in nation building. Remember, not all singaporean are PAP worshippers and singapore is not built by PAP alone!!!
just a matter of following textbook and economists' recommendation. Singapore in the 50s, 60s, 70s, is just riding with the after-war-world 2 economic boom experienced by many countries.
[quote]and take what was written in our local media with a BIG pinch of salt -> for example, many Singaporeans believe China Chinese are very hardworking. NOT SO. Many of them enjoy 8-5pm work life balance and 5 working days! Another misconception is China media very restrictive. Again NOT SO. China media did alot of social work by exposing many im-moral businesses and government officials. In Singapore what? Just NKF?
Beijing and Shanghai are two very different cities and even the ppl there think very differently! How can KL and Japan (tokyo, kagoshima or Sapporo) be not much different??Try travelling more will ya? ....So let me repeat again. Travel more and you will see that Singapore is not very much different from KL, Beijing, Shanghai, Japan, etc.
If you choose to look only at the misgivings, ill treatment or whatever bad experience you have had in singapore, you will only see the bad things about singapore and you WILL have the misconception that everything outside is better. Then you are blind to the beautiful world. Flowers are not of the same colour, trees are not of the same heights, birds don't sing the same tune, cities cannot be "not very much different", ppl cannot be the same!!
don't need to repeat yrself, just speak the same language as we do here. "ya" does not mean "you" here. We speak singlish but you gong angmoh, don't blame us for catching no balls.
Open your heart and your eyes will be opened, then you will enjoy wherever you go. Good luck! -
i agree with you.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Beijing and Shanghai are two very different cities and even the ppl there think very differently! How can KL and Japan (tokyo, kagoshima or Sapporo) be not much different??
If you choose to look only at the misgivings, ill treatment or whatever bad experience you have had in singapore, you will only see the bad things about singapore and you WILL have the misconception that everything outside is better. Then you are blind to the beautiful world. Flowers are not of the same colour, trees are not of the same heights, birds don't sing the same tune, cities cannot be "not very much different", ppl cannot be the same!!
don't need to repeat yrself, just speak the same language as we do here. "ya" does not mean "you" here. We speak singlish but you gong angmoh, don't blame us for catching no balls.
Open your heart and your eyes will be opened, then you will enjoy wherever you go. Good luck!
though we have a lot of 'problems' other countries arent necessarily any better. it depends on what each individual is seeking.
one can never have the best of both worlds. take something, lose something. -
singapore is changing fast , 80% to 90% maximum housing loan.
every policy reverse so fast . and always changing policy so fast.
the new generations are more dynamic and equip and can move on to china and india with the same fo china and india coming here.
most of us will be workign for either chinese or india firms as they buy out US firms and these firms expatriate have got to get use to the different races here.
it is those out of relevant and cannot communicate well that will at a disadvantage
for hawkers no change, 50 years from no, chicken rice and nasi lemak still the same. maybe chicken and rice genetically modified.
want a career until 70 years old, become a hawker.
i think things will still be moving on. -
all these country citizens now employ foreign workers, no need to do the dirty work. in singapore with or without LKY they stil the same.Originally posted by Cindyfeh:Japan, Brunei, Malaysia, blah blah all don't have LKY, I don't think too many people there are cutting rubber tree barks. I think LKY's effect is less corruption not really good economics.
To sgdiehard's post below,
It really depends on what individual wants. The will always be debates on why people want to migrate and why some want to stay. You have your points and I have mine.
Thanks for bringing my grandfather into the picture. But he is not LKY, so its quite irrelevant.
By the way, can you share why is it difficult to raise a child in KL? in terms of study, child happiness, and future potential. You can mention about the biaseness of the system towards bumiputra but i think most in Singapore know about this.
everyone somehow is being brain washed that staying in HDB is worse than in kampong of old days. living in life of so much debt and pressure.
do we need so many populations to substain our country expenditure.
will we be at a disadvantage if we did not separate from malaysia. No. its just that we wil go through different lifestyle.
i remember malaysian no need to pay school fees in australia and so they do double degree in those years.
see those that stay in 3 rm HDB, still have to pay so much just to survive and some already retire with day to day worries of next meal.
if they rent out their flats and stay malaysia , they can eat well and have money to save. take note there are many s'poreans in malaysian in this goo dlifestyle after renting out their hdb flats and return twice a mnth to collect rent. thats why without foreign workers from india and china, no one will want to rent our hdb flats. -
High crime rates. Some of my relatives have been victims of crime. Snatch theft is rampant all over Malaysia.Originally posted by Cindyfeh:By the way, can you share why is it difficult to raise a child in KL? in terms of study, child happiness, and future potential. You can mention about the biaseness of the system towards bumiputra but i think most in Singapore know about this. -
dangerous crime is a problem.Originally posted by iveco:High crime rates. Some of my relatives have been victims of crime. Snatch theft is rampant all over Malaysia.
and also same for singapore. -
in singapore?Originally posted by AF2005:dangerous crime is a problem.
and also same for singapore.
i dont think it is so common. at least i dont have a friend who is a victim of dangerous crime. -
are you sure,
in singapore lift crime is just as dangerous.
last sat papers, yishun blk320 lift robbery involving an old lady. she lucky did not get hurt or killed.
the best part is yihsun neighbourhood police centre is only 30 metres from that blk320.
the thief must have pick the best idea place to robbed and he got away, next to NPC
in malaysia snatch thief , in singapore lift robbery, even worse than snatch theft. the victim face to face with robber in the lift.
you can guess the no of dangerous lift robberies a year. -
are you sure,
in singapore lift crime is just as dangerous.
last sat papers, yishun blk320 lift robbery involving an old lady. she lucky did not get hurt or killed.
the best part is yishun neighbourhood police centre is only 30 metres from that blk320.
the thief must have pick the best idea place to robbed and he got away, next to NPC
in malaysia snatch thief , in singapore lift robbery, even worse than snatch theft. the victim face to face with robber in the lift.
you can guess the no of dangerous lift robberies a year.
the nos crime in HDB is quite large in proportion to an estate size.