Predict what will happen when LKY is no longer around`
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You think too low of him. Must have positive attitude and not negative to himOriginally posted by Lowclassman:How about puuting LKY to run Malaysia or Indonesia??? You think he can manage like singapore? My balls -
Without LKY you have mahathir or suharto, this was decided for you by your parents who decided where they gave birth to you. Because your grandfather was not LKY therefore today you have to migrate. do you want to make your grandchildren migrate?Originally posted by Cindyfeh:Japan, Brunei, Malaysia, blah blah all don't have LKY, I don't think too many people there are cutting rubber tree barks. I think LKY's effect is less corruption not really good economics.
To sgdiehard's post below,
It really depends on what individual wants. The will always be debates on why people want to migrate and why some want to stay. You have your points and I have mine.
Thanks for bringing my grandfather into the picture. But he is not LKY, so its quite irrelevant.
By the way, can you share why is it difficult to raise a child in KL? in terms of study, child happiness, and future potential. You can mention about the biaseness of the system towards bumiputra but i think most in Singapore know about this.
Most in singapore know about the biaseness of the pro bumi system but do we realise exactly how it affects our lifelihood? In KL, if you have money, staying in Bangsa area, then you will have less problem. You don't realise how many things taken for granted here. Take water supply, you get regular brown water from your tap and you need to change your water filter once every 3 weeks!! No exaggeration. Always plan to send your children overseas, like coming to singapore, I was told.
You need to live in a place to know what it is like. You see nothing travelling there as a tourist. I travel all over the world except Africa and south america. In the beginning, with money, everywhere is comfortable, but after 3 weeks, the most comfortable place is back home where my family and friends are.
Respect your decision to migrate, it is a bold move, but pls remember those in singapore as singaporean, not PAP worshippers.
cheers. -
I can only say you are brainwashed...just like most pple on the street. Housing cost is not high?? 200k for a pigeon hole, go check out our neighbours countries wat you can buy with 200k. And mind you, your hole is only 99 yrs.
A person chooses to live in luxury? Well, that's from the mouth of those ministers..car is a luxury, not a necessity. But wat abt the quality of life that a car can bestow upon you. Go get a car n you will know that car bestow upon u freedom, it's shd be a gift for everybody, not a luxury. I dun wan to squeeze the Mrt with lots of foul smell n noises...this is not the kind of life i think everybody shd live. Pathetic.
You think the aussie really pay 40% of their income to govt? You apparently never stay long enuff in the aussie land.Originally posted by Honeybunz:GST is only 5% in Singapore. Housing cost is not high, considering the fact that we do not have much land here. At least, most ppl can afford a decent flat to live in, with the help of CPF. You may think that government is sucking us dry by forcing us to save money in CPF. But we have to admit that this generation is so spoilt that we do not know how to save anymore.
ERP, High petrol cost .... Well, if a person chooses to live in luxury of driving to and fro work every day, ERP and petrol cost is nothing to him (it is his choice after all). Likewise, if you choose to live in the private condo, you cannot complain paying the high maintenance fee every six months cuz it's your choice.
If you complain about insurance and road tax, how much is it every year? It is nothing, compared to having to pay 40% income tax every year, right? If you earn $4000 a month, $1600 goes to govt's pocket. Since income tax is only paid once a year, can you imagine every year, when the income tax filing is up, you have to start scratching your head, thinking of how to pay the 5 digit figure of income tax. Even our AWS and variable bonus can't cover that.
But of course, it is personal perference. If you prefer to own a landed property (owning a landed property in Aust, which is so cheap) and buy cheap cars, and at the same time, don't mind paying income tax with almost of your salary, then of course Aust is anytime better. -
To the best of my knowledge, Australian salaries are somewhat higher than Singaporeans for same job, same experience. I haven't gone into the precise counting but I believe this higher salary will offset most of the higher income tax in australia.Originally posted by Honeybunz:GST is only 5% in Singapore. Housing cost is not high, considering the fact that we do not have much land here. At least, most ppl can afford a decent flat to live in, with the help of CPF. You may think that government is sucking us dry by forcing us to save money in CPF. But we have to admit that this generation is so spoilt that we do not know how to save anymore.
ERP, High petrol cost .... Well, if a person chooses to live in luxury of driving to and fro work every day, ERP and petrol cost is nothing to him (it is his choice after all). Likewise, if you choose to live in the private condo, you cannot complain paying the high maintenance fee every six months cuz it's your choice.
If you complain about insurance and road tax, how much is it every year? It is nothing, compared to having to pay 40% income tax every year, right? If you earn $4000 a month, $1600 goes to govt's pocket. Since income tax is only paid once a year, can you imagine every year, when the income tax filing is up, you have to start scratching your head, thinking of how to pay the 5 digit figure of income tax. Even our AWS and variable bonus can't cover that.
But of course, it is personal perference. If you prefer to own a landed property (owning a landed property in Aust, which is so cheap) and buy cheap cars, and at the same time, don't mind paying income tax with almost of your salary, then of course Aust is anytime better.
Look at this website for fresh graduates:
http://mycareer.com.au/jobs/all/graduate/all/?pg=4
You will see that fresh accounting grads can get AUS$35,000 to AUS$45,000pa
In Singapore it ranges from $1800 to $3200 (for the lucky few). That equals to S$21600 to S$38400 pa.
Not sure if A level or poly graduates in Australia banks are really getting this amount, but its worth to take a look:
http://mycareer.com.au/jobs/sydney/financial-services/data-entry/3408220/view.aspx?s=105&c=28&pg=4&j_o=finished+your+hsc+in+2004%3f+get+into+the+banking+industry+now!&j_ag=apsley+recruitment
Did you finish your HSC between 2003 - 2004 with good marks?
Have you got 6 - 18 months administration and customer service experience? Are you interested in a Banking career?
$28 - 32K + Superannuation + Opportunity!
If you finished your HSC in 2003-2004 and have been looking for a chance to break into Investment Banking, this is your chance!
You will receive on-going training, and will be responsible for a wide range of administrative duties within the Client Document Administration Department.
You must be bright, enthusiastic, possess excellent interpersonal skills and have basic computer literacy. Ideally you will have 6 – 18 months work experience behind you. This experience may have been office-based or could have been within hospitality, or even McDonalds. The important thing is that you understand the concept of work, training and professionalism.
Don't pass up this opportunity to establish your career in the Banking industry!
Even flipping burgers count as working experience! Now thats open minded!I don't think you can find any bank HR directors in Singapore who cares if you have Macdonald experience. -
Alternate taxes? Well, when GST was implemented in July 2000, it started at a whopping 10%! Bus fares went from $2.50 to $2.75 for short distances (2 zones:10-20 min ride) & private bus companies were charging $3.20 for the same distance. It was then that I truly appreciate what we had here. Bus freq can be 45min and service ends at 6pm in some suburbs. Shall not start on the expensive and inefficient train system.Originally posted by HarryPussy:Eh...our tax not as high as australia?? Hmm...what abt alternate tax...like GST, ERP, High petrol cost, high housing cost tat's sucking s'porean high n dry??
To be frank, i have lived extensively in both countries and assuming with 3000 bucks (the currencies abt the same in both countries)...my quality of life is much much better in aussie land. I have my own landed house, brand new car and still have much to save. In singapore, cant even start a family, got to get my parents to down the deposit for my 4room hdb flat...
Try talking to the hdb heartlander, everywhere i heard is complains...
ERP? Well, you have to pay toll to use highways and it's worse cos not many uses electronic so you have to wait to pay toll or have the correct change to throw into toll machine. You get horrid jams at peak hours. Parking is expensive in city... $6 p/hr.
Currency at same level? No way! Hasn't been for over 3 years and in range of 1.24-1.30. This will affect tourist & student expenditures.
When were u there? Cos the info u provided seems outdated. Cost of living has gone up a lot in Australia. Regular detached houses in suburbs, 30-45min from Sydney (Leave Perth out, that place is on its own) can cost $750k to over $1M. With home loan rates at 7.3%, how much of your income goes to repaying for your place? Go buy economic rice in food courts? $6-$8... where got cheap?
It's very different if one is staying as a student and if one actually works there. While I was there, I spoke to many who migrated and despite the landed house and car, they admit that it is not as easy as it seems. If you want to migrate, better migrate with money. Otherwise, there will be little savings and with some superannuation funds ('CPF') in the red, one will worry about the "promised" pensions.
I love Oz for hols and travel there annually. But racism, paying high taxes to sustain the other half of the non-working population (I hope that both do not happen in Singapore) and many other factors are why I will not migrate.
I'm not saying that Singapore is perfect... far from it but Oz is definitely not what is seems.
Grass always greener...? -
That is very true. Just went there recently and was shocked at the prices there. Even the Australians think Singaporeans are crazy to do shopping there, while things are much cheaper here.Originally posted by Y-not:Cost of living has gone up a lot in Australia. Regular detached houses in suburbs, 30-45min from Sydney (Leave Perth out, that place is on its own) can cost $750k to over $1M. With home loan rates at 7.3%, how much of your income goes to repaying for your place? Go buy economic rice in food courts? $6-$8... where got cheap?
Grass always greener...?
Yes, their pay might be slightly higher than in Sg. But with the high income tax and high standard of living, what is left? Probably just the two storey bungalow with a swimming pool (Note : the house might be cheap as claimed by the "owner". But maintaining the swimming pool is no way cheaper than in Sg. No way!). -
I was surprised when I heard that many SIngaporeans go shopping at one complex near my university. Thought they'd rather go to JB or KL.Originally posted by Honeybunz:That is very true. Just went there recently and was shocked at the prices there. Even the Australians think Singaporeans are crazy to do shopping there, while things are much cheaper here.
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The whole issue here is about the right to make one's home in a place where one deems fit.Is this freedom to be derided and spat upon by those who beat their chests and thump almighty at the concept that staying here is the best option because we get to worship the works of a man?
Stay here and work your ass off and not enjoy a better quality of life with more personal space or you can move abroad, possibly working your ass off but ihaving a much wider latitude for work opportunity and business, instead of being shafted and shunted into tight narrow channels which might not really be what you are good at.
Dammit if I want to slog, let me slog in the knowledge that at least I am doing something commensurate with my expertise or my talent.
Don't quite like it?STFU. -
it is quite obvious from the various postings that different people have different experiences and differing opinions of what life in australia really is.
i guess it is fair to say we have different needs and wants. whether migration is good or bad depends on each individual's needs and wants. -
Now that's something agreeableOriginally posted by dragg:it is quite obvious from the various postings that different people have different experiences and differing opinions of what life in australia really is.
i guess it is fair to say we have different needs and wants. whether migration is good or bad depends on each individual's needs and wants.
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Guess some Singaporeans who migrated there aren't that smart. If I am not wrong, it is best to get stuff from suburbs places where the items will be cheaper. As for clothes, electronic items, etc, one should buy them in Singapore when one returns to visit relatives and friends.Originally posted by iveco:I was surprised when I heard that many SIngaporeans go shopping at one complex near my university. Thought they'd rather go to JB or KL.
With more personal time in Aus, it is cheaper for oneself to prepare own's lunch than buy in foodcourt.
I am sure there are more ways of living an economical life in Australia. Perhaps some fellow forumites will like to share?
Appreciate it. -
That's true, but many people may be lazy to cook. For me, the only time I cook is during dinner time.Originally posted by Cindyfeh:With more personal time in Aus, it is cheaper for oneself to prepare own's lunch than buy in foodcourt.
Appreciate it. -
Agree with dragg & Lazerlord that migration is an individual issue. One man's meat is another man's poison
My point is I've heard too many grads from Oz praising the place to the skies but one should always look deeper. However, I agree that we wld have more personal space there.
I don't think there're many admiring the works of just one man but rather give credit where it's due. It's a team of pioneers but it requires good leadership to steer the country towards progression.
Then again, it's arguable if this is the progression that WE want.
But what do we want? What will satify us?
P.S. we're all straying from the topic. -
duplicate posting