T. T. Durai: I should have said, I travel on first class
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T. T. Durai: I should have said, I travel on first class
CEO says he should have said that 'on hindsight' so as not to mislead the public, but insists he had merely used his entitlement. Sharon Loh and Selina Lum report
DOES National Kidney Foundation (NKF) chief executive T.T. Durai fly first class when he travels at the organisation's expense?
Two men who said as much were taken to court separately in 1998. Both apologised and paid damages and costs to the NKF.
Former real estate consultant and NKF volunteer Archie Ong was one. He had said in conversation with NKF's Mr Alwyn Lim that the organisation squandered money and that Mr Durai 'jets here and there in first class'.
The other was aero-modelling instructor Piragasam Singaravelu, who said he had seen Mr Durai in Singapore Airlines' (SIA's) first-class cabin.
The NKF, including chairman Richard Yong, had maintained that senior executives fly business class for long-haul flights.
Yesterday, Mr Durai told the court that he does in fact fly first class.
For the past two years he has been entitled to a fare equal to SIA's business-class rate - which can translate to first class on other airlines. Previously, he paid the difference himself.
Questioned by counsel Davinder Singh, Mr Durai insisted that he did nothing wrong by using his entitlement to pay for first-class travel.
Their exchanges on this point went this way:
Davinder Singh: Can we have a straight answer to this question and listen very carefully to it: Using NKF's funds, have you travelled first class? A straight answer, you are on oath.
T. T. Durai: Yes, NKF has not paid for...
Davinder Singh: No, no. My question is very simple. Using NKF's fund have you ever travelled first class?
T. T. Durai: No.
Davinder Singh: Is that the honest truth?
T. T. Durai: I have travelled on NKF's business-class entitlement. I have used it to travel first class.
Davinder Singh: I ask you one more time. Forget entitlement. Money. NKF money used. You travel first class?
T. T. Durai: Yes.
Davinder Singh: You have?
T. T. Durai: Yes, on business-class entitlement.
To further questions, Mr Durai said he knew that an SIA business-class fare was higher than first-class fare on other airlines.
Davinder Singh: So effectively, what you have done is you have used money from the NKF ostensibly for business-class travel but really for first-class travel.
T. T. Durai: I have used...
Justice Tan Lee Meng: Yes or no?
T. T. Durai: Yes. Can I explain why?
Judge: You can but I would appreciate if you answer the questions.
Davinder Singh: You see, Mr Durai, this is public money. Isn't it your duty as a trustee of people's money to make sure that you get best value on a business-class seat instead of deploying this clever tactic of using one of the highest published rates to get first class on another plane?
T. T. Durai: This is a decision made by the board. I used the entitlement.
Judge: The question is not who made the decision.
T. T. Durai: The board gave me...
Judge: Please answer the question.
Davinder Singh: Isn't it true that as a trustee of people's money, you have a duty to ensure that you get value for that money?
T. T. Durai: True.
Davinder Singh: Isn't it true that you need to fly in business class for business-class comfort?
T. T. Durai: This is an entitlement given by the board to me...
Judge: That was not his question. His question was, the directors feel that you deserve business-class comfort.
T. T. Durai: Yes.
Davinder Singh: And because you deserve business-class comfort, you are given a perk of business-class travel.
T. T. Durai: Yes.
Davinder Singh: Using the money donated by the man in the two-room HDB flat.
T. T. Durai: Yes.
Davinder Singh: Who has never in his life seen a business-class cabin?
T. T. Durai: I would not know that.
Davinder Singh: So you set your perk at SIA business-class rate, use that money to go first class and sue people who say that they have seen you in first class?
T. T. Durai: At that point (of the 1998 lawsuits) I didn't travel on first class. But in the past two years, the board has given me entitlement to travel business class on an SIA ticket. So I have taken the liberty to travel first class... That is what the board has decided. They know about this.
IN THE Straits Times article at the centre of the current lawsuit, NKF chairman Richard Yong was quoted as saying that nobody flew first class on NKF's money.
Asked now if that statement was true or false, Mr Durai replied: 'On the basis of what you said, it is not true.'
Mr Singh asked repeatedly if Mr Yong's statement to the paper was false. At first Mr Durai disagreed.
Davinder Singh: NKF does not pay for first-class airfare from Singapore. Does this say that if Mr Durai flies from Singapore, we only pay business class? But if Mr Durai flies from other countries back to Singapore, it is first class?
Therefore, is this statement by Mr Yong to the reporter Susan Long, meant for the public and donors, true or false?
T. T. Durai: It is not accurate, yes. Your interpretation is not accurate.
Davinder Singh: How will the public read this? You have sued two people who alleged you travelled first class.
T. T. Durai: They will have a different view of it.
Davinder Singh: They will read it to mean that none of NKF's executives including you fly first class using NKF's money, correct?
T. T. Durai: Yes.
Davinder Singh: And that is false, correct?
T. T. Durai: Yes.
Davinder Singh: Is this transparency or is this deliberate concealment of facts? We had come to this court to justify the lack of transparency. What we have now learnt is far more egregious than that. Is this a matter of transparency or an orchestrated attempt to lie to the public?
T. T. Durai: No. The board has made a decision on the entitlement - I have used my entitlement to travel the way I want for the purpose of business. It is not something I have done deliberately to deceive the public.
Davinder Singh: Are you now going to do the right thing to go to the two persons you took money from (in the 1998 lawsuits) to return it to them and to apologise?
T. T. Durai: No. I want to explain because at that time I was not travelling using NKF's money to buy a first-class ticket. I paid the difference and then travelled on first class. ...
Mr Davinder Singh asked several times why Mr Yong felt it necessary to mislead the public with a statement that was not true, and why Mr Durai had done nothing to correct it.
Mr Durai replied that he had merely used his travel entitlement and did not deceive the public.
Davinder Singh: Mr Durai, one last chance before I move on because if you don't have an answer, we know what it is. Why was it necessary to mislead the public?
T. T. Durai: You ask Mr Richard Yong that question. I don't know.
Mr Durai disagreed that his method of using his business-class entitlement to travel first class amounted to mismanagement of NKF donations.
Davinder Singh: The reason the public has been misled is that you know that if the public knew the truth, they would be upset that these methods were being used to get yourself on first class. Isn't that right?
T. T. Durai: No.
Davinder Singh: The public would be upset.
T. T. Durai: No.
Davinder Singh: That is why you are not telling them the truth. Why hide the truth?
T. T. Durai: I am just like every other CEO entitled to benefits and rights. We run a business organisation with a turnover of $120 million.
Judge: Why hide the truth? The question was, why hide the truth?
Davinder Singh: Why hide the truth? You see, if it is completely acceptable, completely above board, why not tell the public this is what you are doing? Why create a totally false impression, as we have seen in this article?
T. T. Durai: On hindsight, we should have done that - to say I travel on first class using a business-class airfare.
E-mail: [email protected]
E-mail: [email protected] -
byebye you're screwed phoney bastard.
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A private man's $600,000 pay - is it of public interest?
SENIOR Counsel Davinder Singh spent some time probing chief executive officer T.T. Durai on the NKF's reluctance since 1999 to disclose the salaries of its senior people.
Mr Durai confirmed that the issue never went away, and that the organisation's position was that it would not disclose.
He said salaries are a very personal thing, and as a private person he did not want his disclosed.
Also, revealing top officers' pay would have made it difficult to recruit people.
He also saw no legal requirement to disclose his pay.
Mr Singh pointed out that even though there was no legal requirement to release all the information included in the NKF's investment report to the donors, that had been done.
Counsel said that the absence of legal obligations was therefore not an obstacle.
Mr Durai replied: 'It is a personal matter.'
Counsel remarked: 'I do understand some of that because that is why people travel first class and have a lavish suite for their privacy.'
He then asked Mr Durai if he thought the public ought to be told if a charity decided to pay its chief executive $25 million a year - funded by donations.
Mr Durai said at first that he could not comment. But asked repeatedly, he said it would be up to the board of directors. He also said he would go along with the decision not to disclose even if the $25 million was, as Mr Singh put it, 'grossly, grossly exorbitant'.
'I report to the board,' Mr Durai said.
Counsel then moved on to the issue of Mr Durai's pay.
Davinder Singh: In your affidavit, you liken yourself to CEOs of companies and ministers in government, right? Would you agree with me that like ministers in the government, you are being paid out of people's money? Would you agree with me that ministers' salaries are transparent?
T.T. Durai: Yes.
Davinder Singh: Would you agree with me that CEOs of listed companies have their salaries published in the newspapers?
T.T. Durai: Yes.
Davinder Singh: And you have likened yourself to CEOs of public companies. Why are you not publishing your own information?
T.T. Durai: I like my salary to remain private. My board members know that. My senior colleagues know that.
Davinder Singh: We all like our salaries to be private. But if it's funded by the public, which takes precedence? The right of the public to know how much of their money goes to you, or your preference for privacy?
T.T. Durai: I think it is for the board to decide. The public doesn't control the organisation.
Davinder Singh: Exactly. Exactly. You see, Mr Durai, the public does not control, it doesn't have access to information. So doesn't that place on you a responsibility?
T.T. Durai: We comply with all the regulatory requirements. If the regulatory authorities imposed a condition that we have to disclose salaries, we would.
Davinder Singh: Mr Durai, can you tell this court what your salary and bonuses were for 2002?
T.T. Durai: I was earning a monthly salary of $25,000.
Davinder Singh: And your bonus?
T.T. Durai: Performance bonus was 10 months.
Davinder Singh: Ten months' bonus! $250,000 bonus. This is for 2002.
T.T. Durai: I cannot recall the exact figure.
Davinder Singh: So, if it is $25,000 a month, multiply that by 12, your total package was $550,000 in 2002.
T.T. Durai: I believe so.
Davinder Singh: 2003, please?
T.T. Durai: You have the numbers. I don't have the numbers offhand.
Davinder Singh: Tell us, please, so that we don't waste time.
T.T. Durai: About the same I think. I cannot tell you offhand now.
Davinder Singh: About the same, meaning $550,000 or slightly higher?
T.T. Durai: About that.
Davinder Singh: How many months' bonus did you get in 2003?
T.T. Durai: Twelve months.
Davinder Singh: In 2004, what was the bonus?
T.T. Durai: Same bonus.
Davinder Singh: Twelve months at $25,000 a month.
T.T. Durai: Yes.
Davinder Singh: So for the past three years you have earned about $1.8 million from the NKF.
T.T. Durai: Yes.
Davinder Singh: And the man who earns $1,000 a month who takes out $50 of his pay packet every month thinking that it is going to save lives, should he not know that that is the kind of money you earn?
T.T. Durai: There is nothing wrong with the money I earn.
Davinder Singh: $1.8 million, I wonder what is wrong. $1.8 million. Should the man who takes $50 out of his pay packet of $1,000, leaving $950 for him, his wife and his children, with no savings, should he not know that some of that money is going or has gone into a $500,000 to $600,000 pay package for you?
T.T. Durai: Surely he knows.
Davinder Singh: Tell me, how does he know?
T.T. Durai: Let me explain. People donate money to the NKF to run a dialysis programme that saves lives. We have built a dialysis programme. We run...
Judge: Please answer the question.
Davinder Singh: You said: 'Surely he knows.'
T.T. Durai: No, I am saying a person who contributes to the foundation knows that there are people working in the institution.
Judge: No. The question is, should that person know that you are earning $500,000, $600,000 a year? It is a simple question.
T.T. Durai: No, your honour, I do not see a need for him to know.
Davinder Singh: Thank you. It has nothing to do with privacy. It is about embarrassment, is it not?
T.T. Durai: No.
Davinder Singh: You would lose all authority, all moral authority to look at him in his eyes, isn't that right?
T.T. Durai: That is not true.
Davinder Singh: If he knew that you were flying first class on his money, you could not look him in his eyes, isn't that true?
T.T. Durai: It is not true.
Davinder Singh: If he knew that his salary couldn't even buy the bathroom fittings in your private office suite, you couldn't look him in his eyes.
T.T. Durai: That is not true.
Davinder Singh: We now understand why you say the $990 tap is not expensive. Well, coming from you at $600,000 a year, we now know why you say it is not expensive. But tell us, for that man with $1,000/$2,000, is it expensive?
T.T. Durai: Yes, he may consider it expensive.
Davinder Singh: He may, or is it? Tell us the truth.
T.T. Durai: I cannot speak for him. It depends on the type of building, the use of the item.
Davinder Singh: The man in his HDB one-room, two-room, three-room flat, earning a salary of $1,000, $2,000, $3,000 - would he find that tap at $990 plus 10 per cent discount expensive?
T.T. Durai: He may consider it expensive, yes.
Davinder Singh: He may, or will he?
T.T. Durai: If he is an educated person, if he knows the use of the particular office, for what purpose, he may probably think it is something reasonable. -
see which bloody idiots wld donate to them next...
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too late to know but better than NEVER.
ever since some talk about the fly 1st class yrs back, i stopped all my donation to NKF.
who is so free to anyhow talk the talk when in SG is prone to get sue for making such comments even when it "real" but "no" way to "prove"
even in here, when "someone" not happy with what you write, ISD will knock on your door if you are in SG. -
"Charity creates a multitude of sins."
- Oscar Wilde
The heart of the public towards charity has been hardened because of one man succumbing to greed. Pity the actual needy. -
Originally posted by tchiew:
Isn't it supposed to a non-profit organisation with a turnover of $120 million from donations? When did it turn into a business organisation?
T. T. Durai: I am just like every other CEO entitled to benefits and rights. We run a business organisation with a turnover of $120 million.
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The most annoying thing is that he said sometimes he paid the upgrade from business to first class using his own money. Bloody hell. Those money also comes from the donor money wat. If I am paid $25,000 a month, I can also do that wat.
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Durai is only one of the many who pocket big fat bonuses.
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If T.T. Durai still have the right mind, he should return all earnings & Monies in related to NKF back to proper usage, back to the patients.
I will agree that T.T. Durai should have some kind of allwance, but definately not above the average worker's salary. I think he should return all the monies at least.
We donate to save lives, not to feed those people who are already rich & have a secure life already.
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what can we expect? all these admistrative and bureaucratic nonsense grant them power over normal people..and they let it go to their heads.
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Due to over whelming interest in NKF, all threads will be consolidated into one main thread {the one opened by Heartlander} which will be made sticky for the convenience of all. All those who wish to post petitions, please be directed to draggÂ’s thread.
Please help keep Speaker's Corner a tidy corner for all