5% Cash Downpayment for propety. What is your opinion?
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I dont see how you can make money from investing in SG property if you have to take up to 90% loan and stretch it over 35 years.Originally posted by TwilightZone:Government is telling u - time to buy. Our property prices are way below their true value. I just returned from Hong Kong. A 350 sq ft apartment (50-year lease) without a carpark space is going for HK$2,400,000 or about S$520,000. In the prime district, the same sized apartment is going for HK$6,000,000 or about S$1.300,000. They have to pay separately for a carpark. I visited 2 apartments and find that the kitchen has only standing space, the room is the size of our storeroom, and you can touch both walls with your outstreched hands. So we are really cheap for living in a prime city - for the moment. Our limited land space will guarantee sky high property prices in the future. So young men, dont miss out and lament to your children when you are 55 years old. -
Buy now, borrow from back at 5% interest rate p.a. Sell next year at 50% gain, ok maybe 45% gain after you minus your interest rate. I am sure the rich are thinking of that now. ok, maybe most people are thinking of that now. Me? I am thinking of my popcorns and setting up a counter at how many people are going to be bankrupt when the next economic crisis hit.Originally posted by Gazelle:I dont see how you can make money from investing in SG property if you have to take up to 90% loan and stretch it over 35 years. -
Sound like you are more optimistic than my Kwek of CDL huh? 50% gain in one year...Originally posted by Cindyfeh:Buy now, borrow from back at 5% interest rate p.a. Sell next year at 50% gain, ok maybe 45% gain after you minus your interest rate. I am sure the rich are thinking of that now. ok, maybe most people are thinking of that now. Me? I am thinking of my popcorns and setting up a counter at how many people are going to be bankrupt when the next economic crisis hit.
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haha, i exaggerate but some might be thinking of that. It did happened in some parts of China.Originally posted by Gazelle:Sound like you are more optimistic than my Kwek of CDL huh? 50% gain in one year... -
china n singapore very different leiOriginally posted by Cindyfeh:haha, i exaggerate but some might be thinking of that. It did happened in some parts of China.
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Since Mah Bow Tan is the one that build all the left over 5 rms HDB flats, I guess now he is doing something to help clear it.
Personally I think this is a very evil move by the government. What they are doing here is simply trying to get home buyers to buy beyond their means and "trick" people to upgrade to bigger flats. -
the government only change rules to benefit themselves. never for the people!!
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the government only change rules to benefit themselves. never for the people!!
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If the Gahmen's intention is to clear stock, it can easily let ALL Singaporeans of all income groups, of all marital status, and of all property ownership status to buy a NEW HDB Flat. This is because the socialistic conerns of earlier years are no longer valid today. The existing stock will be cleared within days. So I dont think this is its intention. There is no trap at all. Dont trap yourselves in your pessimism and negativism. Ladies and Gentlement, prices will never be the same again in future, especially now that the HDB is bringing in private developers into the game. History will repeat itself again. Wake up from your slumber and sccale new heights.
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Do you think what you are suggesting is a good solution? Maybe for property agent, but for first time home buyer or young couples, they will suffer.Originally posted by TwilightZone:If the Gahmen's intention is to clear stock, it can easily let ALL Singaporeans of all income groups, of all marital status, and of all property ownership status to buy a NEW HDB Flat
The catch here is that the left over stock are all big units and many first time buyers just couldnt afford it. So the new regulation is about repackaging the price to make it look more affordable.
There is no trap at all. Dont trap yourselves in your pessimism and negativism. Ladies and Gentlement, prices will never be the same again in future, especially now that the HDB is bringing in private developers into the game. History will repeat itself again. Wake up from your slumber and sccale new heights
I personally dont see how history can repeat itself in the near future, and I dont think there is a need to rush into buying property in Singapore, unless you have the extra millions siting in your bank account. -
Its good to be optimistic, but got to be realistic also.Originally posted by TwilightZone:If the Gahmen's intention is to clear stock, it can easily let ALL Singaporeans of all income groups, of all marital status, and of all property ownership status to buy a NEW HDB Flat. This is because the socialistic conerns of earlier years are no longer valid today. The existing stock will be cleared within days. So I dont think this is its intention. There is no trap at all. Dont trap yourselves in your pessimism and negativism. Ladies and Gentlement, prices will never be the same again in future, especially now that the HDB is bringing in private developers into the game. History will repeat itself again. Wake up from your slumber and sccale new heights.
1. We r already worry about loosing jobs to china, india etc. Increasing property prices here will only make u more difficulty to compete. The property prices should not increase any more. As can be seen the china garmen cool down their property in Beijing n Shanghai recently as most of their people cannot afford. So it will take even longer for them to catch up with us. That make us even more difficult to compete. Not forgetting china's 2nd line city like Jiangmen etc in Guangdong, their private property price is about RMB1500-2000/m2 or RMB200,000 (abt SGD$40,000) for 100m2. And also go further inland, the western part like Szezhuan, another big play ground for investors. BTW, they r not only into mass produce but also into Hi tech R&D.
2. When property price here go up, newly start up entreprenuer will have problem. The commercial market may get affected. See how Hong Kong famous egg tart shop closed down due to recent property market price increase, as they cannot afford to pay for the rental. So, our job here already threatened n want to start business but restrict by high shop rental. U will be squeezed until nowhere to go n more people may be forced to start somewhere else cheaper. Better dont increase, u r killing yourself.
Dont have such a big head, dont put on such a big hat. Correct me if Im wrong. -
Twlight Zone is indeed living up to his name. He is indeed in his own 'twlight zone' when comes to this matter!
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think about it, they also not forcing u to buy what. they only relax the rules, which could be detrimental if u earn little but go and loan alot to buy.
by relaxing, they allow ppl who earn enough to borrow more so their excess cash can be put into other use. if the real estate value go up, it actually boost many sectors in the economy, think... when u buy house, u need to buy furnitures, curtains, tv, lightings, paint. and when ppl sell at profit, they become more cash rich, they can spend more many like retails, cars, food, holidays. a boost in the real estate sector helps to boost other sectors indirectly or directly. property stocks go up, bank stocks go up, insurance stocks go up. more opportunities will be opened up, whether u r knowledgble to seize the chance is another thing. overall it may be good for the overall economy. think bout it, 50% of the world's wealth is in real estate. Economics is more of an art than a science, it's not like u can do everything to improve everything. u gotta give n take with what u have -
Leddy you are right, bank and property stocks have already gone up, many institute investors should be popping champaign now. But dont forget, if there is a winner, there must be a loser. What I see here is that the property giant, banks and goverment will be the winner, while those dumb arse who rush into buying private property with 90%, 35 years loan will end up being the loser.Originally posted by leddy:think about it, they also not forcing u to buy what. they only relax the rules, which could be detrimental if u earn little but go and loan alot to buy.
by relaxing, they allow ppl who earn enough to borrow more so their excess cash can be put into other use. if the real estate value go up, it actually boost many sectors in the economy, think... when u buy house, u need to buy furnitures, curtains, tv, lightings, paint. and when ppl sell at profit, they become more cash rich, they can spend more many like retails, cars, food, holidays. a boost in the real estate sector helps to boost other sectors indirectly or directly. property stocks go up, bank stocks go up, insurance stocks go up. more opportunities will be opened up, whether u r knowledgble to seize the chance is another thing. overall it may be good for the overall economy. think bout it, 50% of the world's wealth is in real estate. Economics is more of an art than a science, it's not like u can do everything to improve everything. u gotta give n take with what u have
Just see for yourself, most people that were made bankrupt over the last few years are not businessmen, they are mostly people who have over spent on cars, credit card and houses. -
My friend, the point is this: this is only a stimulus package to simulate a fading property market. If you try to simulate the market by increasing the options in a good booming economy, it's all very fine and dandy.
The point is, as I have stated it time and time again, is that Singaporeans are already one of the highest when comes to the amount of public debt- debts and liabilites that each person has in comparsion to his current assets and cash in the bank.
People don't earn enough to cover their expenses, their taxes and their bank loans and mortgages. So, now you increase the options- which mean they can borrow more. In the end, if u borrow more, you end up paying more interest. You also have to worry about the loan repayement itself.
It's a classic vicious financial cycle all again:
You realise you don't have enough money to buy a flat for your marriage--> Then you realise that by using CPF and bank loans, you can set aside money to buy that flat--> So you read all the forms that the banks and CPF board have gave you.--> and even if you realise that the interest rate on the bank loan is higher than you expected, and by thinking that the CPF will take care of itself eventually, you decide you can manage. So you sign it.--> First year of marriage, interest payments are high. You already have a son on the way. Your wife is 6 months pregnant. You are barely supporting the family- so your wife has to work.--> For a while it works, but your wife is facing great difficulty, not just from going to and fro with a huge belly to work but also from the workplace, where family friendly policies are almost non-existent.
2nd part:
In the end, her boss sacks her because she's going to have your baby. The compensation package is barely enough to last one or two months when the baby is due.--> So you become the sole breadwinner. You will feel even more financially squeezed--> the bank repayment statement comes--> it's still $500 per month but as it is, the importance of that $500, which looked so small just a year ago, has a significant importance in the surivial of your small family.--> In the end, you only pay $50 to $100 for the monthly interest. You have not repaid part of the loan because you cannot afford to. The bank will accept this but they know they now technically owe part of your flat.
3rd part:
Expenses get higher as taxes on normal goods get higher. -->Cars and vehicles are also becoming expensive due to increasing oil prices and COE. Normal income taxes are now applied to those low income and middle class incomes- hereby increasing the burden on the breadwinner, that's you. --> In the end, in order to make ends meet, you either downsize the car or you sell your car and start using your father's car--> The baby comes, and with it a huge, huge financial burden. You now cannot afford it. The interest payments from the bank is still coming, you aren't earning enough and the new taxes imposed by the PAP are starting to squeeze even the last few cents that you still have.
The economy is still sluggish and MNCs are still shunning Singapore--> Overall, the Singapore economy cannot seem to flow properly because of obselete govt. economic policies--> Inflation is also making things more expensive each year-->Now your CPF monthly rate is cut again by the govt- which means your retirement pension which is to be used 20-30 years down the road- has an extremely low amount.-->You know you cannot afford to retire with the present amount. And yet the CPF rate has been cut and so you cannot raise the amount in your CPF fast enough.
You acculmate debt- lots of it--> And beside you, many of your friends also are going through the same thing. Somehow, you are just like them and them, just like you--> They were born into humble families and had never been really spooned fed from young- and yet now they, one of the most honest ones and always a heartlander loyalist- are the ones suffering from idiotic govt. policies.
Which is the one that was signed into law yesterday.
In the end, some of your best friends even get bankrupted due to the fact they had defaulted on their bank interest and loan repayments. You curse and swear and ask "why must this happen to you and your friends" to your God.
Now consider this scenario and read the last passage:
Let me put it in this way: is it what you want? If this scenario happens to the people who decided to gamble- even when they know they aren't exactly in good financial health- what will happen to the families who form the basis of this country? The country will also get affected because of this. If this is the scenario that happens 5-10 years down the road, then Singapore and its economy will be suffering hugely- and you, not the govt will be paying the results of the reckless policy thinking by MBT and the PAP now and in the future.[/i] -
having additional options is like having an extra weapon in the arsenal.. can use to your benefit or can dun use.Originally posted by leddy:think about it, they also not forcing u to buy what. they only relax the rules, which could be detrimental if u earn little but go and loan alot to buy.
But what is worrying now is after getting the loan, if along the way, there's a recession.. then those who takes up 90% loan at high interest rates will be hardest hit. Anyway, I still think prudence is best. Unless you are really sure that you know what you are doing, it's best to save til you can put down at least 20% downpayment.. at least your debt burden won't be so much.
Maybe they should come out with some counter measure to prevent people from borrowing beyond their means. -
ya but with Surbana Consultants Private Limited dun think any will...Originally posted by TwilightZone:If the Gahmen's intention is to clear stock, it can easily let ALL Singaporeans of all income groups, of all marital status, and of all property ownership status to buy a NEW HDB Flat. This is because the socialistic conerns of earlier years are no longer valid today. The existing stock will be cleared within days. So I dont think this is its intention. There is no trap at all. Dont trap yourselves in your pessimism and negativism. Ladies and Gentlement, prices will never be the same again in future, especially now that the HDB is bringing in private developers into the game. History will repeat itself again. Wake up from your slumber and sccale new heights.
http://www.surbana.com/
HDBCorp will be assuming Surbana Private Limited 01 July 2005.
this was kept low profile... so ah peh like me dun know de wor... SG'rean' in WWW. now wor.
Pay more for private developers is ok for those with good name for many SG'rean' but pay more for private developers because they are now called private developers??? -
Can the average Singaporean earn enough to possess a home (HDB or Private), a Car, grow 2 children - including providing their education and ECA till they are 24 years old (for boys at least), go for annual holidays, and still have enough in one's Personal Savings or CPF account (after paying the bulk for one's home) ?
This is a pipe dream, as unless the average Singaporean can have an income of a minimum $8,000 per month - all the above is just a "pipe dream" of the "SWISS STANDARD OF LIVING" that has now faded when PM GCT became SM, and this "dream" will definitely go down the pipe when he becomes a MM.
How many young person entering the job market at the age of between 20 to 24 years can even hope to earn $3,000 per month within FIVE years of being employed ?
How many such young persons can hope to enter the $8,000 wage group within TEN years after being employed ?
How many will ever get into the wage bracket of above $15,000 per month within FIFTEEN years after being employed ?
This amount of $15,000 is the minimum wage level that will allow Singaporeans to truly achieve a SWISS STANDARD OF LIVING - but at what COST ?
No representative from the then PM GCT Administration has ever spoken about the "Swiss COST of Living" whenever they glorified the "Swiss STANDARD of Living".
The following article - "Singaporeans are ill-prepared for job loss" - will highlight also the fact that it is near impossible to be secure in one's job to even achieve the "Pipe Dream" of a "SWISS Standard of Living".
http://www.singapore-window.org/sw05/050719to.htm -
Even for buying cars, I personally think that it is always good to avoid paying the minimum and avoid the cash back installment plan. It is ok to have your car towed away, but for house, I think we have to be extremely careful and mindful before signing the dotted line.Originally posted by k4korny:having additional options is like having an extra weapon in the arsenal.. can use to your benefit or can dun use.
But what is worrying now is after getting the loan, if along the way, there's a recession.. then those who takes up 90% loan at high interest rates will be hardest hit. Anyway, I still think prudence is best. Unless you are really sure that you know what you are doing, it's best to save til you can put down at least 20% downpayment.. at least your debt burden won't be so much.
Maybe they should come out with some counter measure to prevent people from borrowing beyond their means.
At the end of the day, those that really gain from this new policy are the property developers, agents, banks and HDB. -
Thanks for all the great post above.
I always say I want to migrate and encourage others to migrate. Now I want to share some economic reasons why ALL should migrate.
Look at Singapore. An island with about 700 km sq of land, absolutely no natural resources other than the deep harbour and may be a good strategic location.
How long will the advantage of deep harbour last? I think with today's technology, digging a deep harbour is easy feat. Tanjong Pelabus is just next door and what are they lacking? Efficiency. One day they will catch up with PSA for efficiency. If you are a business graduate, you will know that efficiency is not a long term competitive advantage (only Wal-Mart achieved any significant CA). One day our neighbour will wake up from their kampong ideas and work hard and efficient. On that day, I hope PSA will RIP.
I think good strategic location is fast becoming a fallacy. Jumbo jets are becomming bigger every year and they can skip Singapore if they want. Also same problem with the ports, if our neighbours picked up their acts, their airports can take away our Changi Airport business.
The very fact that Singaporeans are working longer and longer working hours is an indirect prove that the economic value of the harbor and strategic location resources is dwining. Singaporeans have to compensate by working 12, 14, 18 hrs. But there is only 24 hrs a day and how many more hours can we work? If our neighbours wake up their ideas and work the same hours. What else are we different or better than them? NOTHING.
Ever wonder why our closest neighbour with their relax-lah, kampong attitude can have the same standard of living as us and yet work only 8 hrs a day? It is because they have FREE natural resources like agriculture land, tourism areas, minerals, oil, etc. Look further away at Brunei, do you think they work harder there? Yet, everyone of them has a house and a car. Yes, it is all supported by oil.
The government talks about Swiss-Standard of Living. I agree with other forumites that it is never achievable. My reasoning is based on the above paragraph of Singapore has no FREE natural resources. Switzerland has timber and tourism (the Alps) as natural resources which Singapore don't have. In tourism, Switzerland earned about S$16 billion in 2003 compared to about S$10 billion of Singapore. Which is more fun? Sking or going to sentosa?
It was a pity that Christmas island was sold to Australia in 1958, else Christmas island will at least supply us with some free tourism resource and phosphate. The PAP came into power in 1959.
In a nutshell, I want to migrate to Australia because she has tons of FREE natural resources to support a truely Swiss standard of living.
Amen -
Its nice to see everything go up. But your boss will not like that to happen especially when talking abt your salary increment other than overheads like rental. See how the Port Authority tighten their belt u will know.
So when u buy property today, u wait for at least 30 mths b4 u can sell it. Everybody is buying n price, interest etc. go up. Your boss will start to worry how mI going to pay my guys as the cost of living go up. At the same time the cheaper neighbouring country also calling for investors. Your boss may get cheap deal like 2 or 3 persons to do your job at half or 70% of your salary n also cheaper rental else where. Very attractive, your boss decide to take the bite. As I previously mentioned abt the Hong Kong famous egg tart shop close down, if Im not wrong, it only takes them less than 6mths after the property recovery beginning of this year, they decide to close down. So for your boss may be 12 mths or 18 mths after u bought the property n starts to pull out. U will have to find another job at that time. Most probably the bosses of other competitor company also think alike n starts to pull out. It makes you more difficult to find job you previously done before. So u will have to force yourself to do anything that comes along the way(which the garmen had always encouraged us to do so), most likely at 1/2-2/3 of your previous salary drawn as beggers r not choosers. Now u have another 12 mths b4 u can sell your property, good luck to u. Hopefully property price is not dropping at that time, otherwise.....
Once again, its nice to see everything go up. To buy or not to buy property also decide by individuals. For those that never buy, they may also be one of the victims if the above scenario happens, die for nothing, N bottom 20% becomes bottom 50%.
Only buy it if u really really need it n get something that u are comfortable in paying. -
Dear All,
If Mr LKY and his team were to be so pessimistic in 1965 we would have remained a slum city and continue to shit in bucket toilets.
Young men, do you think your children with stick it out with you if you keep diving for covers and be so pessimistic about the future? Negativism begets negativism. It spells big trouble for your family and the future of our nation.
So please think positive and have the confidence in your future.
Others can have no confidence in you, but if you have not confidence in yourselves, your life is finished. -
The last line is very true. But we need to expand a bit on that. You need to put in the location too.Originally posted by TwilightZone:Dear All,
If Mr LKY and his team were to be so pessimistic in 1965 we would have remained a slum city and continue to shit in bucket toilets.
Young men, do you think your children with stick it out with you if you keep diving for covers and be so pessimistic about the future? Negativism begets negativism. It spells big trouble for your family and the future of our nation.
So please think positive and have the confidence in your future.
Others can have no confidence in you, but if you have not confidence in yourselves, your life is finished.
I have confidence in myself.
I have no confidence in Singapore in the long run, ie 50 years down the road.
I have confidence in myself that I will do well out of Singapore.
I am positive about my future out of Singapore.
Yes negativism begets negativism. But not negativism for me. It begets the drive for me to succeed and up my enthusiasm to get out of here. I do agree it begets negativism for the nation as the nation will earn less tax (mine) but hey, I am not patriotic. So I don't care.
The above is my personal opinion. There are others who think that Singapore is better off. I respect their opinion. -
No so long ago, I believe you will remember that Government was complaining about singaporeans not having enough money for retirement, negative equity, asset rich, cash poor, and bla bla bla. As a result, they have adjusted the CPF policy to ensure that we all will have enough money for retirement.Originally posted by TwilightZone:Dear All,
If Mr LKY and his team were to be so pessimistic in 1965 we would have remained a slum city and continue to shit in bucket toilets.
Young men, do you think your children with stick it out with you if you keep diving for covers and be so pessimistic about the future? Negativism begets negativism. It spells big trouble for your family and the future of our nation.
So please think positive and have the confidence in your future.
Others can have no confidence in you, but if you have not confidence in yourselves, your life is finished.
And now, the same bunch of policy makers are trying to encourage you to upgrade and buy bigger flats, and get yourself financially tied down to your mortgage for life.
Where is the logic? -
I respect and appreciate whoever done to this nation in the pass. But times and things changes now, e.g. last time got no internet but now have, got to live in today's days.
Its not about diving for cover or no confident or negative or pessimistic about the future.
1. Its about we r loosing competitiveness n thats a clear cut signal given to all SG people from top to bottom. Last time when our ancestors got nothing to eat back in home town and some forced to travel here looking for food n work, what do u call them? Negativism? Take cover?
2. Its about able to let everyone do what they feel they can do best and not affected by the economic worth of what the individual wants to do, ie things that dont earn money here, better dont touch. In short, just want to find a place that we can do what we like to do n can best perform and still able to put three meals on the dinner table. We SG people spend almost 12-16hrs/day related to work. 1st thing is to do what u like to do n enjoy talking the most, otherwise would be boring, boring n boring as complained by most SG people. The rest like bar-top dancing, IR, reverse bungee are secondary to me n they r more for attracting the tourist I feel.
In other bigger country, u can travel to other province to find what u want to do if the place u r borned dont require your expertise. Here, if Pasir Ris cannot find, can we find it in Woodlands or Jurong? Im sure those that is out of job now, some may have this difficulty also. Its about INTEREST n PASSION into the job n this could be one of the reasons they do not want to anyhow take up jobs that comes along the way. Even for those that r currently working, the psychiatry will ask u to pay them a small fee, so that they can counsel u as n when u need it. This is in the newspapers few months ago. Got job also feel stress, so dont blame those still looking for jobs, find out the real problem first. If we continue to be like this, it will be difficult for the country to react n deploy the manpower as the economy requirement change very fast. Its better to invest broadly into our country's people talent rather then telling them to forget about what they like to do if it dont earn money now n here, thats very obvious n can be seen in some of our parents here. U wont know when u need this talents. By the time u need this expert, u couldnt find here as u previously never nurture them or turn them down, u would have to turn to the so call foreign talent. Thats the problem that we face now and during the pass few years, as we r not able to steer our economy fast enough to meet the worlds requirement due to narrow choice of local business/work trade. Some of the above are the reports/views from those business experts I have read.
Just happen that u like n enjoy what u do now n still be able to find work n food here doesnt mean that your future generations can be that lucky. The problem will surface when they fall into the None of the Above category as u never know what they r thinking n what they want.
Now come back to the property problem. So if u think that the future is very bright here created by artificial ways, I presume that u also considered the cost of living will increase as well. If happen that way, those that want to create their own opportunity as there is a limited choice here to keep them alive, they will find it very difficult to start here. So dont blame people run far far to start somewhere else. In actual fact, they r POSITIVE enough to go thru the very hard way to find a foreign place that can accomodate them, we should salute them rather then laughing at them for taking cover.
Once u r not contributing, u become a liability. Or only contribute half-heartedly like zombies (as your interest lies somewhere else which cannot be fulfilled here or in your current job) also not healthy for the nation's economy. To prevent these from happening, better think early n in todays sentiment.
We r emphasizing on knowledge-based economy, pay more attention to peoples mental needs first, I guess.