Home > Speaker's Corner

5% Cash Downpayment for propety. What is your opinion?

TwilightZone
22 Jul 05, 00:40

Dear All,

How do you spur your children to excel and scale greater heights? Whilst you will tell them to be prudent and save for the rainy day, you will also in the same breadth encourage them to aim for the sky and take on the challenges of life.

For the young, buying a property should be viewed as one of the most exiting challenges in life. This is especially so in a city state like land-scarce Singapore where owning a property is viewed as a prize. Winning this prize should give them a sense of achievement and satisfaction, having to go through the trials and tribulations, the pain and agony, the tears and joy, and the fun and games to win it.

I notice that when the young people play computer games, they prefer the most challenging ones. They are so delighted when they win a Virtual Prize. But they are afraid to face the real challenging game of Life in Singapore. They want out. Too competitive, they say. No confidence to win the Real Prize. They dive for cover because the game is too challenging for them. They indulge in negativism and pessimism to hide their fear for hardship and pain, pointing to greener pastures elsewhere.

Yes, there seems to be contradictions for example when you express the fear to your child that he might drown if he is allowed to swim but at the same time you send him to swimming lessons with the intention of allowing him to swim eventually. So there is no contradictions in the government's policies.

I appeal to the young people to face up to the challenges and put their chests forward. The greener pastures which you dream of may not be that green when you arrive there. There is nothing like home where you are brought up and where you are with your own people.
Cindyfeh
22 Jul 05, 01:12

Originally posted by TwilightZone:
Dear All,

How do you spur your children to excel and scale greater heights? Whilst you will tell them to be prudent and save for the rainy day, you will also in the same breadth encourage them to aim for the sky and take on the challenges of life.

For the young, buying a property should be viewed as one of the most exiting challenges in life. This is especially so in a city state like land-scarce Singapore where owning a property is viewed as a prize. Winning this prize should give them a sense of achievement and satisfaction, having to go through the trials and tribulations, the pain and agony, the tears and joy, and the fun and games to win it.

I notice that when the young people play computer games, they prefer the most challenging ones. They are so delighted when they win a Virtual Prize. But they are afraid to face the real challenging game of Life in Singapore. They want out. Too competitive, they say. No confidence to win the Real Prize. They dive for cover because the game is too challenging for them. They indulge in negativism and pessimism to hide their fear for hardship and pain, pointing to greener pastures elsewhere.

Yes, there seems to be contradictions for example when you express the fear to your child that he might drown if he is allowed to swim but at the same time you send him to swimming lessons with the intention of allowing him to swim eventually. So there is no contradictions in the government's policies.

I appeal to the young people to face up to the challenges and put their chests forward. The greener pastures which you dream of may not be that green when you arrive there. There is nothing like home where you are brought up and where you are with your own people.
TwilightZone, appreciate your comment.

However, I think youths like me are like water in liquid form. Water never flows uphill even though it is extremely challenging. When water(river) meets an obstacle downhill, it meanders around it and continue its way. Some rivers either because of luck or because they didn't choose the right path, ends up as a lake. The ones who know their way, eventually make it to the ocean. Now, it depends on what is your ambition. Is it trying to flow uphill (Singapore) or empty into a lake or the ocean (Australia, US, whereever better)?

Another example. This time it is from my grandparents. They were not from Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen or the big cities. They were rural farmers. If they were to stay in China in the 50s and aimed to be the best farmers... I think I will still be farming today or bet, I will be one of the millions of graduates fighting to get a living account in the big cities, earning RMB 1800. Life is indeed better in Singapore for me rather than I being a farmer's daughter. Why is life better? Because my grandparents believed that life in China won't be getting any better in their and their children lifetime and decided to make the switch to Singapore.

My gloomy prediction of Singapore future might be wrong. Singapore might really achieve US$50,000 per capital GDPand Singaporeans will only work 8 hrs a day in the future 50 years time. In that case, I only have myself to blame for making the decision to migrate. But we are in 2005 now, whether Singapore will prosper or whither, only time will tell.
Joshua1975
22 Jul 05, 04:58

whatever it is, 5 or 10.... never loaned from bank... loaned from HDB and if cannot pay... dun pay... HDB cannot and will not throw you out...

if bank... good luck... those MIW will not hew you.
Atobe
22 Jul 05, 05:13

Originally posted by TwilightZone:
Dear All,

How do you spur your children to excel and scale greater heights? Whilst you will tell them to be prudent and save for the rainy day, you will also in the same breadth encourage them to aim for the sky and take on the challenges of life.
"Aim for the sky and take on the challenges of life" is quite different from being "prudent and save for the rainy day".

The first is be as ambitious as one possibly can - in other words make as much money from any opportunities that come your way !

The second is to be prudent and save for a rainy day AFTER having made those money from those opportunities !

It is not too difficult to inspire these values into the young.
:
For the young, buying a property should be viewed as one of the most exiting challenges in life. This is especially so in a city state like land-scarce Singapore where owning a property is viewed as a prize. Winning this prize should give them a sense of achievement and satisfaction, having to go through the trials and tribulations, the pain and agony, the tears and joy, and the fun and games to win it.
Buying a property is indeed one of the most exCiting challenges in Life, and it can also make one eXit this world too !

"This is especially so in a city state like land-scarce Singapore, where owning a property is viewed as a prize" by the Government, as it allow the Government to suck or soak up all the cash from the developers and buyers of the properties !

Certainly - "Winning this prize should give them" - our Government - "a sense of achievement and satisfaction", which leaves many Singaporeans "having to go through the trials and tribulations, the pain and agony, the tears and joy" to find enough money from jobs that are on short term contract, and which leaves many Singaporeans unable to be certain if their employment contract will be renewed once it expires, and how will the mortgage be serve ?

The "fun and games to win" a property - at the end of the mortgage, after paying up in full to the banks ?

Have you seriously considered if it is "fun and games" that AFTER fully paying up a 20 year mortgage, one's CPF account and Life Savings will be near or totally EMPTY ?

Is there "fun and games" again, to DOWN GRADE by selling the property that has been fully paid up after 20 Years, so that there is still CASH left to have "fun and games" in the remaining years ?!
:
I notice that when the young people play computer games, they prefer the most challenging ones. They are so delighted when they win a Virtual Prize. But they are afraid to face the real challenging game of Life in Singapore. They want out. Too competitive, they say. No confidence to win the Real Prize. They dive for cover because the game is too challenging for them. They indulge in negativism and pessimism to hide their fear for hardship and pain, pointing to greener pastures elsewhere.
What is the "Real Prize" after 20 Years of Paying the Mortgage, only to sell the house so as to be able to survive in one's later years ?

What is the challenge in the "Game of Life" in Singapore when the Rules of the Games are dictated and set by an inflexible MICRO-processor that micro manages every aspect of Life in Singapore ?

Do YOUNG Singaporeans indulge in negativism and pessimism to hide the fear for hardship and pain ? If so this seems to be a trait and a pass time even for those Adults - who were once young themselves - and yet Singapore is what it is TODAY, despite all the gripes; as all the gripes and pessimism is by itself a driving force to succeed against the odds that the Government has stacked against us - INCREASING our COST of Living, and TAKING AWAY our PERSONAL WEALTH with the big SOAK UP strategies from all the GLCs that provide all the essential services to Singaporeans.

"Greener pastures elsewhere" is not a sin, as even LKY has always dreamed about being in the FIRST WORLD, and GCT about the SWISS.
:
Yes, there seems to be contradictions for example when you express the fear to your child that he might drown if he is allowed to swim but at the same time you send him to swimming lessons with the intention of allowing him to swim eventually. So there is no contradictions in the government's policies.
Surely, there is no contradictions in Government Policies to take away private land and compensate them "peanuts", and sell the completed HDB flats that empty the CPF account of Singaporeans ?

It is certainly no contradictions to tell Singaporeans to accept the new job reality of short term employment contracts, with no certainty of being employed after the expiry, and then decide to abandon HDB Financing Scheme to allow Private Banks to take over the financing of HDB home purchases - with HDB homes open to seizures on default (when previously HDB homes cannot be mortgaged or seized).

It is certainly no contradictions to cut Singaporean's wages and CPF for the sake of our Employers, so as to allow Companies to be more competitive; but at the same time it is quite alright for the Government to approve increases to the cost education, health, transport, utilities, HDB flats, etc.

It is no contradiction for the Government to expect Singaporeans to accept low wages to help Employers and Companies, but it is alright for the Government to increase land and development costs that is dubiously pegged to market prices driven by greed.

It is no contradiction for the Government to expect Singaporeans to accept low wages, while the Ministers can be paid wages that are beyond the wildest dream of any average Singaporean.

It is no contradiction for the Ministers to be paid $250,000 per month, as it is "PEANUTS" since Singapore has such a HUGE RESERVE !
:
I appeal to the young people to face up to the challenges and put their chests forward. The greener pastures which you dream of may not be that green when you arrive there. There is nothing like home where you are brought up and where you are with your own people.
What happen to the Government exhortation for YOUNG Singaporeans to spread their wings and help Singapore to breathe a new life into a Second Wave to our Globalized Economy ?

There is certainly nothing like home where one is brought up, and where one is with one's own people.

Unfortunately, what home is there to find when in the old age, one find our own children struggling with a low income, struggling to finance their HDB mortgage with a short term employment contract ?

What home is there to return to when the Government with a HUGE PEANUT RESERVE will not even put S$1 BILLION into taking care of the sick, the infirmed and the aged; BUT will be prepared to squander US$40 BILLION to buy a 5 PERCENT stake in some bank in INDIA, spend BILLIONS more in foreign purchases of companies in China, Europe, India, Indonesia, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, South Africa, Taiwan, UK, USA and Timbuctoo ?
Gazelle
22 Jul 05, 07:16

Originally posted by TwilightZone:
Dear All,

How do you spur your children to excel and scale greater heights? Whilst you will tell them to be prudent and save for the rainy day, you will also in the same breadth encourage them to aim for the sky and take on the challenges of life.

For the young, buying a property should be viewed as one of the most exiting challenges in life. This is especially so in a city state like land-scarce Singapore where owning a property is viewed as a prize. Winning this prize should give them a sense of achievement and satisfaction, having to go through the trials and tribulations, the pain and agony, the tears and joy, and the fun and games to win it.

I notice that when the young people play computer games, they prefer the most challenging ones. They are so delighted when they win a Virtual Prize. But they are afraid to face the real challenging game of Life in Singapore. They want out. Too competitive, they say. No confidence to win the Real Prize. They dive for cover because the game is too challenging for them. They indulge in negativism and pessimism to hide their fear for hardship and pain, pointing to greener pastures elsewhere.

Yes, there seems to be contradictions for example when you express the fear to your child that he might drown if he is allowed to swim but at the same time you send him to swimming lessons with the intention of allowing him to swim eventually. So there is no contradictions in the government's policies.

I appeal to the young people to face up to the challenges and put their chests forward. The greener pastures which you dream of may not be that green when you arrive there. There is nothing like home where you are brought up and where you are with your own people.
I agree with you about encouraging youth to face up to real challenge. But I disagree that there is no contradiction in the government policy. This 90% loan and 5% cash down payment policy is basically targeting at those people from the average and low income family and these are the same group of people that run the highest risk of losing job if there is going to be another major recession.

As many here have already mentioned about the challenges ahead for singapore, therefore dont you think that it is important to establish a career for yourself before making the plunge into buying private property?

If you look at the way young couple are spending on their home, you will definitely agree with me that most have already over stretched their finances. Take for example, it is very common these days for young married couple to take up 50 to 100K renovation loan just to make their HDB look private, and this is on top of the housing mortgage take have already taken from the bank or CPF.

It is good to have dream, but I would rather think of how to make money first before thinking of spending it.
Cindyfeh
22 Jul 05, 09:13

I got the below cost of living comparision of Singapore of the 70s and 05 from another discussion forum. http://app.feedback.gov.sg/asp/dis/dis0003.asp?pg=2&topicId=1941&CatId=801

Can the senior forumites here verify the accuracy of the data below?

Dear Kai, Wei Bin,
Let's compare "apple to apple" on the public subsidy:

1969: Toa Payoh subsidised 3-room HDB flat : S$7,800
2004: Sengkang "Build to order" 3-room flat: S$89,000
------That is, a price increase of 11 to 12 times.

70's Toa Payoh Lorong 8 126 sq.m. 5-room HDB flat: S$35,000
2004: Sengkang 110 sq.m. 5-room HDB flat: S$320,000 to S$350,000
------Again, a price increase of almost 10 times.

late 70's 1,700 sq. ft. HUDC flat at Marine Parade: S$85,000.
2004: Pinnacle @Duxton Plain: 110 sq.m. 4-room at S$389,000
2004: Sengkang 1,500 sq. ft. executive: S$389,000.
----- Price increase of 4 to 5 times for a smaller apartment.

1960's: A terrace at Sembawang costed S$35,000.
1992: Pasir Ris 1,500 sq. ft. 99-year private condominium: S$440,000
1992: Pasir Ris 1,500 sq. ft. executive flat: S$350,000
------ that is, a 10 times increase in property price from the 60's.

(Note that the price was so low due to Gulf War and collapse of the property market, and dwelling units were priced to sell at that time. A 1,700 sq. ft. Waterside Apartment was going at S$900,000!!!!)

COmapred to COst of Living at HDB Estates:
1970's: HDB open carpark was S$15 pm.
2004: HDB open carpark at S$75 pm???

That was after Dhanabalan's sppech in Parliament that HDB cannot afford to continue subsidising public amenities and conservancies services and should "price to the value of the actual land cost".
hence, the exponential increase in HDB carpark charges.

Toa Payoh Coffeeshop:
- 60's & early 70's: F&B drink: S$0.25.
= 2004: S$1.10......an increase of 4.4 times.

- a plate of hor fun or nasi padang: S$0.50
- 2004: S$3.50......an increase of 7 times.

Our Salary:
- 1971: Skilled Shipyard fitter - S$210 pm.
- 2004: Skilled foreigner worker - S$670 pm.
------- a salary increase of 3 to 4 times.

- 1971: Poly diploma holder - S$450.00
- 1971: Nantah graduate S$450 (police inspector)
- 2004: Poly diploma holder - S$1,200.00 to S$1,500.00
------- a salary increase of 2.67 to 3.3 times

- 1971: University of SIngapore graduate - S$900.00
- 2005: SMU graduate - S$2,200 to S$3,000????
------- a salary increase of 2.4 to 3.3 times.

Therefore, for an average SIngaporean families, with salary increase of average 2.4 to 3.3 times over a 30-year span,....and with "affordable" HDB flats ncreases by almose 10 times (3-room), how can you said we are better off as compared to those who benefitted the most in the early 80's?

When we talk about "affordable" public housing and subsidised level, on what basis and quantum level we are basing on?

The highly inflated land and housing pricing started in the early 80's?

Or the actual subsidised pricing level in the 60's and early 70's?

That is, basing on our salary increase, 3-room HDB flats should price at about S$23,400 to S$31,200 basing on the average 30-year span salary increase of 3 to 4 times, starting in 1971.

Then, I will bow my head to PM Lee Regime and said:
It is true. Public housing is heavily subsidised for the hoi polloi.

When launching this "Public Private Partnership", the private condo "price to sell" policies is cery telling to the future pricing level of this PPP Scheme.

That is, there is always a pricing differential of S$100,000 between "bigger" units built by HDB Corp and those by private developers.

It is based on the rationale you have to pay for "better private architect's design" to get away from the homogenuous "HDB look" and the perceived expectation that "private developers" meant "better quality" fitting-outs, furnishings and finishes.

By 2008, at the end of the 5-year moratorium at first refusal to "design and build" HDB housing estates, HDB Corp becomes a full-fledged "private developer".

Perish that thought as the differences between HDB Corp and "Private Developers" are best summed up by ol' Daisy at the conclusion of "Animal Farm":

- "Looking thru' the window with her old and blurred vision, she cannot distinguish the difference between pigs and men."
Cindyfeh
22 Jul 05, 12:40

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/159112/1/.html
After this week's property announcements, OCBC has set higher interest rates for its 90 per cent home loan financing.

This came a day after DBS raised its floating rates by 1 percentage point for the initial 2 years, and 1.5 points higher for subsequent years.

For OCBC, its rates are raised by 1 percentage point across the board for all private and HDB properties.

Maybank and HSBC say they are also reviewing their home loan packages while UOB says it is monitoring the market and will respond to changing conditions.

Property developers and agents say that while they have received more enquiries on launches, it is still early to say if it will translate to more buyers.

Many potential buyers are adopting a wait-and-see attitude on the kind of packages banks come up with as a hike in interest rate for a bigger loan might mean they will pay more in monthly instalments. - CNA /ch

Sit tight, chew your peanuts and get ready to catch some news of our good gov helping buyers who can't make their HDB loan payaments.
chinese-ed
22 Jul 05, 16:51

Originally posted by TwilightZone:
Dear All,

How do you spur your children to excel and scale greater heights? Whilst you will tell them to be prudent and save for the rainy day, you will also in the same breadth encourage them to aim for the sky and take on the challenges of life.

For the young, buying a property should be viewed as one of the most exiting challenges in life. This is especially so in a city state like land-scarce Singapore where owning a property is viewed as a prize. Winning this prize should give them a sense of achievement and satisfaction, having to go through the trials and tribulations, the pain and agony, the tears and joy, and the fun and games to win it.

I notice that when the young people play computer games, they prefer the most challenging ones. They are so delighted when they win a Virtual Prize. But they are afraid to face the real challenging game of Life in Singapore. They want out. Too competitive, they say. No confidence to win the Real Prize. They dive for cover because the game is too challenging for them. They indulge in negativism and pessimism to hide their fear for hardship and pain, pointing to greener pastures elsewhere.

Yes, there seems to be contradictions for example when you express the fear to your child that he might drown if he is allowed to swim but at the same time you send him to swimming lessons with the intention of allowing him to swim eventually. So there is no contradictions in the government's policies.

I appeal to the young people to face up to the challenges and put their chests forward. The greener pastures which you dream of may not be that green when you arrive there. There is nothing like home where you are brought up and where you are with your own people.
Everybody young or old got to face up to the challenges and put thier chest forward. I fully agree with what u say.

The question is are we fighting a war that dont concern us at all or are we fighting other peoples war blindly.

Lets take a look at the recent O level results, most foreign students from China top the class with many As and their parents always tell them to stay low profile as Singaporean students and parents dont like this to happen. These are reported in the newspaper recently.

I spoke to some local kids that is good in certain areas like art, music and some even into ornamental fish breeding. They say its no use to be good in what they do, the Chinese students score so many As, they will take up all the top and good jobs. I just dont understand what is meant by this. The only thing I know is that the current generation already into fighting other peoples's war. Have these local kids check with the top chinese students, can they play piano or violin well, can they breed ornamantal fish, ie put a pair of fishes together, let them lay eggs, hatch the eggs n later bring them up and go on and produce the next n subsequent generations, hopefully new strains of fishes can produce. Basically they r not focus n again they r into "things that dont make money, dont touch". Most of the local top students are seeing this FT as threats and they want to beat them and see them as targets. Something wrong with the system somewhere. Nowadays, eveywhere u go, u are sure to bump into these chinese and indians, so where can u hide, stay focus in what u do and excel in it. Establish your platform or create your own opportunity elsewhere if u cannot find a platform here.

There is no trap at all. Dont trap yourselves in your pessimism and negativism. Ladies and Gentlement, prices will never be the same again in future, especially now that the HDB is bringing in private developers into the game.

Now back to the property problem, u mentioned before from your previous threads that property price will never be the same again in future. If its like what u say, most probably a lot of people will start buying for fear of falling behind, knowing that most of us are holding a Temporary Permanent Job.

Stay focus, think carefully before u decide to fight the war. The choice is yours.
shinta
22 Jul 05, 17:03

Originally posted by Cindyfeh:
I got the below cost of living comparision of Singapore of the 70s and 05 from another discussion forum. http://app.feedback.gov.sg/asp/dis/dis0003.asp?pg=2&topicId=1941&CatId=801

Can the senior forumites here verify the accuracy of the data below?

Dear Kai, Wei Bin,
Let's compare "apple to apple" on the public subsidy:

1969: Toa Payoh subsidised 3-room HDB flat : S$7,800
2004: Sengkang "Build to order" 3-room flat: S$89,000
------That is, a price increase of 11 to 12 times.

70's Toa Payoh Lorong 8 126 sq.m. 5-room HDB flat: S$35,000
2004: Sengkang 110 sq.m. 5-room HDB flat: S$320,000 to S$350,000
------Again, a price increase of almost 10 times.

late 70's 1,700 sq. ft. HUDC flat at Marine Parade: S$85,000.
2004: Pinnacle @Duxton Plain: 110 sq.m. 4-room at S$389,000
2004: Sengkang 1,500 sq. ft. executive: S$389,000.
----- Price increase of 4 to 5 times for a smaller apartment.

1960's: A terrace at Sembawang costed S$35,000.
1992: Pasir Ris 1,500 sq. ft. 99-year private condominium: S$440,000
1992: Pasir Ris 1,500 sq. ft. executive flat: S$350,000
------ that is, a 10 times increase in property price from the 60's.

(Note that the price was so low due to Gulf War and collapse of the property market, and dwelling units were priced to sell at that time. A 1,700 sq. ft. Waterside Apartment was going at S$900,000!!!!)

COmapred to COst of Living at HDB Estates:
1970's: HDB open carpark was S$15 pm.
2004: HDB open carpark at S$75 pm???

That was after Dhanabalan's sppech in Parliament that HDB cannot afford to continue subsidising public amenities and conservancies services and should "price to the value of the actual land cost".
hence, the exponential increase in HDB carpark charges.

Toa Payoh Coffeeshop:
- 60's & early 70's: F&B drink: S$0.25.
= 2004: S$1.10......an increase of 4.4 times.

- a plate of hor fun or nasi padang: S$0.50
- 2004: S$3.50......an increase of 7 times.

Our Salary:
- 1971: Skilled Shipyard fitter - S$210 pm.
- 2004: Skilled foreigner worker - S$670 pm.
------- a salary increase of 3 to 4 times.

- 1971: Poly diploma holder - S$450.00
- 1971: Nantah graduate S$450 (police inspector)
- 2004: Poly diploma holder - S$1,200.00 to S$1,500.00
------- a salary increase of 2.67 to 3.3 times

- 1971: University of SIngapore graduate - S$900.00
- 2005: SMU graduate - S$2,200 to S$3,000????
------- a salary increase of 2.4 to 3.3 times.

Therefore, for an average SIngaporean families, with salary increase of average 2.4 to 3.3 times over a 30-year span,....and with "affordable" HDB flats ncreases by almose 10 times (3-room), how can you said we are better off as compared to those who benefitted the most in the early 80's?

When we talk about "affordable" public housing and subsidised level, on what basis and quantum level we are basing on?

The highly inflated land and housing pricing started in the early 80's?

Or the actual subsidised pricing level in the 60's and early 70's?

That is, basing on our salary increase, 3-room HDB flats should price at about S$23,400 to S$31,200 basing on the average 30-year span salary increase of 3 to 4 times, starting in 1971.

Then, I will bow my head to PM Lee Regime and said:
It is true. Public housing is heavily subsidised for the hoi polloi.

When launching this "Public Private Partnership", the private condo "price to sell" policies is cery telling to the future pricing level of this PPP Scheme.

That is, there is always a pricing differential of S$100,000 between "bigger" units built by HDB Corp and those by private developers.

It is based on the rationale you have to pay for "better private architect's design" to get away from the homogenuous "HDB look" and the perceived expectation that "private developers" meant "better quality" fitting-outs, furnishings and finishes.

By 2008, at the end of the 5-year moratorium at first refusal to "design and build" HDB housing estates, HDB Corp becomes a full-fledged "private developer".

Perish that thought as the differences between HDB Corp and "Private Developers" are best summed up by ol' Daisy at the conclusion of "Animal Farm":

- "Looking thru' the window with her old and blurred vision, she cannot distinguish the difference between pigs and men."
u got take inflation into consideration?
Joshua1975
22 Jul 05, 17:10

whatever thing it is, they just want to you loaned from bank which i think SG'rean' should not at all.

all should just loaned from HDB and forget about paying if cannot is the oni way... what job security the world have now...

and to do business in SG... forget it.... you are paying everone "else" ie GOV b4 you get paid yourself...

let's bring 'them' down... start all over again may be the best way for all SG'rean'
chinese-ed
22 Jul 05, 17:35

Once u start owing money in SG, it will be very difficult for u to borrow money again next time from the banks.
dragg
22 Jul 05, 17:42

like i posted earlier somewhere, the root cause of our high cost of living is property prices. that i believe is something that the government can do nothing about/not willing to do anything about.
Joshua1975
22 Jul 05, 17:48

so... loaned from HDB... than 4get what it say.... interest add on or what FUCK let them add....

you have a 5 room... after sometime you dun pay, HDB ask you sell off and pay them but will let you have 1 or 3 room de lah.... same story again.... dun pay.... dun pay

PDP? PAY DUN PAY.........

how many of you in here dun pay/dun service your loaned anymore, reason like out of job....
Cindyfeh
22 Jul 05, 17:52

Originally posted by shinta:
u got take inflation into consideration?
There is no need to consider inflation because flats themselves are the causation of inflation. The price difference between a flat in the 70s and 2000s is an indication of inflation of high cost items.

What that author was trying to say is the rising cost of flat is not matched by pay rise over the years. This is very true as my parents bought their flats in 1988 for $60,000 and now it cost $200,000 for the same flat -> a 3x price increase. Yet their salaries remained pretty stagnant since 1988. They are blue collar workers by the way and yet they managed to pay off the flat by end 1990s, raised 2 kids to university and bought some insurance. No cars. Do you think now it is possible even for university grad to pay off the flat within 15 years? Hardly right?
dragg
22 Jul 05, 17:53

Originally posted by Joshua1975:
so... loaned from HDB... than 4get what it say.... interest add on or what FUCK let them add....

you have a 5 room... after sometime you dun pay, HDB ask you sell off and pay them but will let you have 1 or 3 room de lah.... same story again.... dun pay.... dun pay

PDP? PAY DUN PAY.........

how many of you in here dun pay/dun service your loaned anymore, reason like out of job....
i am out of job but still paying.
TwilightZone
22 Jul 05, 19:00

Dear All.

Would you people be happier if property prices were all reduced to 1970's level, and your salaries reduced to $180 per month to commensurate with the reduction and the wives stay home to take care of the babes?

Would your parent's who now own the properties be happier?
Joshua1975
22 Jul 05, 20:09

wan ton mee 10 cents... all will be very happy...

$180/mth in 70s with 10 cents mee
&
$1800/mth in 2005 with $3 mee...

how you do you maths???
timothytsgsg
22 Jul 05, 20:14

My dear Twlight Zone,

U dun seem to get the point. After even explaining a zillion times to you and pointing out fact after fact, you still don't seem to get it. It's like I'm getting this gut feeling that you either simply can't understand what are we talking about or that you are being ignorant.

My reply to you will be short, simple and sweet. And if you still demonstrate your 'ability' of being an egghead, then really you need to see more things and demonstrate more intelligence and maturity.

Here we go:

It's not a matter on how our parents lived in the 70s or whatever. In the 70s, things were cheap. Inflation wasn't so high and stuff wasn't so expensive. People could live within their means. Even a normal HDB flat wouldn't be so expensive that people needed to take out excessive and unafforable bank loans and bank mortgages to put down the deposit for the flat.

As long as people could live within their means, everyone was happy at that time to do so.

But now its different. Now people cannot even live within their means. They cannot even break even in terms of their family finances. More often than not, people spend more than they earn- and they don't spend it on luxurious items, they spend it on everyday stuff- like food in the food courts and hawker centre, clothes, raw, fresh and frozen food from the supermarket and wet markets. Prices have been going up faster than wages can ever do so.

So if families already have more liabilities than assets, should they go and spend some more money which they don't have at the first place? Owing one flat is one thing, but having little or no money is another. Worse still if you have outstanding bank loan repayments still.

And in case u didn't know, Singaporeans are already becoming 2nd class citizens. Chinese and Indian nationals are coming over and they are replacing Singaporeans in almost every single job. It's not that I'm against them from coming but I do understand that some of these 'talents' are actually not talented.

The preferential treatment of western expats in Singapore by the govt has also
gave locals bad feelings about westerners in general. You say we should be proud of Singapore and if anything, we should establish ourselves here before going overseas.

That's true- but only if you weren't born here. Americans are able to establish themselves in America because the society and govt gives them the freedom to do so. They are also respected by the govt and society. They are not 2nd class citizens in their own country.

Here, we are even below foreigners- whether chinese from China, Indians from India or expats from the usual suspect of western countries.
Cindyfeh
22 Jul 05, 20:16

Originally posted by TwilightZone:
Dear All.

Would you people be happier if property prices were all reduced to 1970's level, and your salaries reduced to $180 per month to commensurate with the reduction and the wives stay home to take care of the babes?

Would your parent's who now own the properties be happier?

Actually why not? With most of us either diploma or degree holders, our pay will be $700 to $900 at 1970s level. The 70's Toa Payoh Lorong 8 126 sq.m. 5-room HDB flat cost S$35,000. Say the household only save $350 for the mortgage payment. It will only take 100 months to pay it off. That equals to 8+ years!!!

Lets not forget that the wife is not working and can take good care of the children and house, negating the needs for maids.

Also, in the 70s the husband works 8-5am, 8 hrs a day. He can come home and play with the kids EVERYDAY. Now that is what I call worklife balance!

My parents should be able to take it if bus fares, food and other stuff are also similiarly reduced to 70s level. That is bus fares of 20 cents, meals of 50 cents.

The ones who cannot take it are the rich who owned more than 1 property. They will be crying all the way to the bank.

The above is a nice dream which will never happen in Singapore.
Gazelle
22 Jul 05, 23:31

Originally posted by TwilightZone:
Dear All.

Would you people be happier if property prices were all reduced to 1970's level, and your salaries reduced to $180 per month to commensurate with the reduction and the wives stay home to take care of the babes?

Would your parent's who now own the properties be happier?

I think what most people here are asking for is for government not to manipulate the property market and create the false impression that properties are becoming more affordable.
Gazelle
22 Jul 05, 23:36

Originally posted by timothytsgsg:
My dear Twlight Zone,

And in case u didn't know, Singaporeans are already becoming 2nd class citizens. Chinese and Indian nationals are coming over and they are replacing Singaporeans in almost every single job. It's not that I'm against them from coming but I do understand that some of these 'talents' are actually not talented.
very true. out of the 4.5 million population here, only 2.5 million are true singaporean.
Atobe
23 Jul 05, 08:09

Originally posted by TwilightZone:
Dear All.

Would you people be happier if property prices were all reduced to 1970's level, and your salaries reduced to $180 per month to commensurate with the reduction and the wives stay home to take care of the babes?

Would your parent's who now own the properties be happier?
In the 1970s, if the people's salary was $180 per month ( ? ) , the Minister's pay was $10,000 (with all perks thrown in) - everyone was happy.

The FIVE Cent coin could still be used to buy something of value during '70s.

When " MONEYTHEISM " came onto the Singapore scene, it touched and drove everyone including the Government.

What is the difference in salary that is paid today ?

The majority of Singaporeans earn an average monthly wage of $1,500 and the Ministers get paid $250,000 and more.

Is anyone happy, with this vast difference in wage increment ?

Sure, everyone in the service of the Government or the Ruling Party, except the " silent and helpless " majority of Singaporeans.

No wonder the Government can claim that inflation is kept under control in Singapore, their salary helped them to overcome inflation, which they caused by the land prices that they fixed, their approval of price increases of transport, heatlh, education, and food.

Are your parents happier today - (unless of course they are associates of the Ruling Party or the Government) ?
TwilightZone
23 Jul 05, 11:01

So you people think that if you are the Ministers you will be able to bring down prices for the people of Singapore, do a better job and the existing ministers, and you will be more than willing to draw 2 or 3 times the salary of an average graduate and serve the country with all your hearts?

And how do you propose to do all these? Give us, the dimwits, your alternatives.
Gazelle
23 Jul 05, 11:10

Originally posted by TwilightZone:
So you people think that if you are the Ministers you will be able to bring down prices for the people of Singapore, do a better job and the existing ministers, and you will be more than willing to draw 2 or 3 times the salary of an average graduate and serve the country with all your hearts?

And how do you propose to do all these? Give us, the dimwits, your alternatives.
personally i have no problem with how much our ministers are drawing as long as they are doing a good job for the people (especially for those low income families) and bring prosperity to our country.

As for Mah's new policy, I think it only benefit the rich, like the Kwek and Wee family.
Atobe
23 Jul 05, 12:20

Originally posted by TwilightZone:
So you people think that if you are the Ministers you will be able to bring down prices for the people of Singapore, do a better job and the existing ministers, and you will be more than willing to draw 2 or 3 times the salary of an average graduate and serve the country with all your hearts?

And how do you propose to do all these? Give us, the dimwits, your alternatives.
What is the salary of an "average" graduate, and in which period of time are we referring to, 1975 or 2005 ?

At present, the Government has made a mess of our lives - starting with the lowest and most basic cost : LAND, which affects every and all costs.

To start with, the Government had to put their finger - (no their whole hand) - into the profit margins of the developers by demanding a minimum fixed price on the land that is offered for public bidding, imposing a high percentage of development charge, stamp duties on the valuation of the contracts, and will charge all kind of fees for waivers and penalties for deviation from development guidelines.

All these additional costs will only be borne by the final property owners; and those owners of commercial properties - who are in retail or service to Singaporeans - will simply pass on their overheads to Singaporeans.

It all start from the most basic level, and will snowball into a walloping jell that will simply overwhelm us.

Singapore's first Foreign Minister S. Rajaratnam - from FIRST GENERATION LEADERSHIP - had expressed his fears of what he is seeing in the changing values from his generation, and had warned of the impending encroachment in the "Culture of Greed, and MONEYTHEISM" (leaving out the words "in Government" ) .

For further reading about the development of Singapore into the religious path of "MONEYTHEISM" :

The PAP and the people - A Great Affective Divide
by Catherine Lim
http://www.geocities.com/eril_project/gad.html