Awareness of gay issues in S'pore: A political perspective
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that's because genetic influence does not happen in every generation.. you do not take on each and every traits that you parents passed on to you.. but by and large, you are more similar than you parents than any other individuals walking down the street..Originally posted by sgdiehard:genetic theory of gays?? how are genes passed down? reproduction through sex with an opposite sex, is it not the only natural way? and common sense! how do aunties and uncles of gays produce more offsprings with gays genes, unless they have the genes themselves, if they have the genes then how can they have sex with the opposite sex? Gays are born? May be, but is it natural, or sickness of the mind itself, a birth defect, a medical condition?
No more discussion for me.
the gay genes theory was one of the biggest opponent to darwin's theory of evolution.. remember you yourself also believe that gay genes will one day die of natural death? The scientific community does not have a good answer this issur yet, the Italian research is one of the first step towards answer this question.. And the research is straight, if you are keen to know.. -
There's this opinion that the scientific community does not always support that gays are as natural as straights.
http://psychcentral.com/psypsych/Reparative_therapy
This article provides a comparative study between organisations that support change therapy and those that did not.
However, it's important to note that those that did not support change therapy are usuaully the larger organisations.
i specifically bold the last paragraph which indicate that "orientation change therapy doesnt work" is still the general consensus among the practitioners.
quote:
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Proponents
Various religious and ex-gay organizations, including PFOX, Exodus International, NARTH and the International Healing Foundation, as well as various minor ex-gay and transformational ministries advocate the belief that reparative therapy is genuine and works.
Conversion therapies are also advocated by various religious family values groups such as the Family Research Council and Focus on the Family.
Specific proponents, such as Charles Socarides, often have gay sons, leading some to suspect they are working out their own psychological issues in public through their advocacy of a therapy that doesn't work.
Opponents
Reparative therapies are opposed by a variety of groups, including gay rights organizations such as GLAAD, Stonewall and Outrage.
More importantly, many various professional medical and psychological bodies condemn conversion therapies. Such bodies include:
American Psychiatric Association (APA)
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Medical Association
American Psychological Association
American Counseling Association
American Federation of Teachers
National Association of School Psychologists
National Association of Social Workers
National Association of Secondary School Principals
National Education Association
Royal College of Nursing.
On the question of whether therapy can change sexual orientation the APA answers:
"No. Even though most homosexuals live successful, happy lives, some homosexual or bisexual people may seek to change their sexual orientation through therapy, sometimes pressured by the influence of family members or religious groups to try and do so. The reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable." [4] (http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html#cantherapychange)
Some religious organisations also oppose reparative therapies, including The Interfaith Alliance, New Ways Ministries and People for the American Way.
In 1999, the American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association developed and endorsed a statement reading:
The most important fact about 'reparative therapy,' also sometimes known as 'conversion' therapy, is that it is based on an understanding of homosexuality that has been rejected by all the major health and mental health professions. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a 'cure.' ...health and mental health professional organizations do not support efforts to change young people's sexual orientation through 'reparative therapy' and have raised serious concerns about its potential to do harm. -
Was really surprised by MDA's move to help facilitate part of the IndigNation program. This might be one of it's first kind in Singapore.Thurs, 4 Aug 2005
7.30 pm Contra/Diction– A Night With Gay Poets
It is time we recognized that gay people make significant contributions to life and society in Singapore. Much of our arts scene would come to a standstill if not for these gay men and women. And yet many of our most talented performers have had to remain closeted or ambiguous for fear of having their livelihoods threatened.
But things are changing. Come for a night of poetry where some of our openly gay and upcoming poets read you the beautiful words they have penned birthed from within the ecstatic, the agonies and even the mundanities of their lives and discuss with you how their sexual orientation impacts their works as poets. Wine and snacks will be served.Late news!
The Media Development Authority were very helpful in facilitating an Arts Entertainment Licence (R1
for this event within 24 hours. This event was covered by 'Today' newspaper.
I have this feeling that MDA has started to be more accepting than before, especially when SommerSturm and Mysterious Skin were both approved to be screen in Cathay Cineleisure (One of the most gay-friendly theatre around).
Are we seeing a history here? let's keep our fingers crossed and hope that the rest of the programmes will be run successfully.
For pictures of this event, pls see:
http://www.plu.sg/main/index2.htm -
SixXX! - The Sixth Annual Adlus Bash
On the contrary, there are some unhappiness with ADLUS members for IndigNation to include their annual bash into the IndigNation's programme. Within the gay community, there's still this diversity when it comes to "open" or "closet". Putting ADLUS bash as an event (open to media coverage) might "force" the more closeted gays away from their traditional annual bash.
IndigNation closes with a party. Not Nation but IndigNation with AdlusÂ’ SixXXX!
Adlus is SingaporeÂ’s lgbtq outdoors and sports group promises and Xciting Xtreme Xperience at their annual Adlus bash. Not hotbod beefed up body is needed for this party (though it would be nice) just come in your berms, let your hair down and have a great time amongst friends. Keep that night free! As the Adlus anniversary is a private by-invitation only event please write to Nick for an invitation.
I used to be part of the group, played volleyball every week with the group. They sent a team to Sydney to participate in Gay Games in 2003. -
Okay, a break from IndigNation.. Let's return to the mainstream.. This month, we have a month-long event know as screen singapore that showcase local talents. one of which:
15 by Roystan Tan.. Arguably the best director we have in this land of ours.. Recognised throughout the world other than locally.. If you are interested in this movie, you can still watch it this month.. Hope there's no cut in the movie though..
http://www.screensingapore.com/films.php?f=27 -
Actually I intended the word "sugar" be "sweet".Originally posted by earthlings73:you forgot to add too much in front of sugar.. no one can totally abstain from sugar.. or else he will die.. ta da..
as for your second para, no comments.. u r entitled to your opinion.. but pls use the thread i've highlighted..
Good that u have no comment about my 2nd para.I've no hatred towards gays,so it was not posssible i posted msg which showed i hated gays. -
With Thum Ping TJin doing Singaporeans proud by swimming across the English Channel, I was drawn to read more about his achievement online. And guess what, this swim of his is part of a charity drive to gather charity funds for 2 organisations:
1) Methodist Schools Foundation
2) Action for AIDS
I do not intend to speculate his orientation with his association with AfA. But no matter whether he's gay or straight, it's great that he's helping out AfA, an organisation under negative limelight due to TNP.
I did some more research and found the de-bunk of TNP report by AfA. I dont think TNP will publish this. So I will share with the rest here. -
TNP allegation #1:
5 volunteers from the MSM Outreach Programme tested positive at the anonymous test clinic in the past 2 years.
FACT:
Our investigations have revealed that only one volunteer tested positive for HIV infection after becoming a volunteer, this was possibly the individual who was interviewed in the TNP article. This does not mean that the volunteer acquired HIV infection in his role as a volunteer.
Our investigations have also revealed that the other four individuals only started volunteering some time after they were diagnosed with HIV infection.
AfA runs the Anonymous HIV testing and counselling site at which it is claimed the five tested positive. We would definitely know of volunteers who test positive, and we can therefore categorically state that at most only one of our volunteers tested positive after becoming a volunteer.
We emphasise that AfA does not require volunteers to undergo HIV testing before recruitment, or at any other juncture during their involvement with the organisation. Doing so will violate the principle of non-discrimination on the basis of HIV status, as well as the basic rights of any individual, volunteer or otherwise.
If any of our volunteers would like to have an HIV test, they are treated like any other client at the Anonymous testing and counselling site.
If any of our volunteers test positive, our response will not be to blame and chastise him or her, but to ensure that they receive the best medical and psychological support. If they express a desire to continue offering their help, we will not turn them away.
If we hear of any volunteer repeatedly engaging in high risk behaviour, we will investigate the matter and ask the person to leave the organization if the allegations are substantiated. -
TNP allegation #2:
AfA does nothing to protect its volunteers.
FACT:
New volunteers are screened and trained according to the needs of the projects/programmes they are involved in. Such training includes providing detailed information about sexual health and safer sex behaviour. Volunteers are expected to maintain the highest standards of personal behaviour in this regard.
Reminders and updates are periodically sent out to volunteers from the MSM Outreach Programme as well as other programmes in relation to practising safer sex and other matters.
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TNP allegation #3:
“There is a possibility, no matter how remote, that these young male volunteers are coming forward because they see the MSM outreach programme as another avenue for them to meet other gay men”. Volunteers are having unsafe sex because “they can't resist the temptation” and that “when they pull down their zips, their brains also drop”
FACT:
Volunteers may have different reasons for sacrificing their time and energy to the cause of AIDS prevention. Some may have friends and loved ones who have contracted the infection and died. Others volunteer because they want to contribute to society.
We are sure that their motives are honourable and decent. Our volunteers are selfless, hardworking, committed and responsible individuals who do their best to raise awareness of safer sex and who would protect themselves and others.
To say that volunteers are willing to undergo rigorous training, selection and monitoring in order to meet others for ignoble reasons is ludicrous. There are many other much easier avenues in which individuals of any sexual orientation can meet other people. -
TNP allegation #4:
‘Recently, many of the volunteers have been young, good-looking gay men below 30 years old. And they are 99% gay men.'”
FACT:
The demographics of our volunteers in 3 of our programmes in which there is direct client contact as detailed in section II clearly disproves this claim.
NOTE:
AfA does not discriminate in recruiting, training or retaining volunteers. We will train and engage anyone who is sincerely committed to helping us achieve our objectives, regardless of age, gender, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation or HIV status. We especially do not expect anyone to provide the last two categories of information.
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TNP allegation #5:
TNP claims that volunteers who are supposed to be handling phone calls are spending excessive lengths of time on the phone and are, in fact, “getting to know the other person on the other end of the line”.
FACT:
MSM Outreach Programme volunteers do NOT man a telephone hotline.
In the line of duty we may have to counsel clients with serious problems of anxiety, guilt, fear and other crises related to AIDS. Such counselling may require spending significant amounts of time to deal with the issues that trouble them. To question the intentions of volunteers who spend time with distraught clients is an affront to the dedication of volunteers and counsellors everywhere, and demonstrates the accusers' ignorance of the nature and purpose of counselling.
AfA volunteers who handle clients have to undergo a screening process and comprehensive training before they take on duties on their own. -
TNP allegation #6:
The unnamed source states that “I know of many counsellors who have met patients and in the follow-up have become partners”.
FACT:
We know of no instances of MSM Outreach Programme volunteers becoming partners with their clients.
The insinuations reported in the TNP articles have done a great injustice to the selfless and committed volunteers and staff of AfA.
To date AfA has not received any complaints from clients on the conduct of its volunteers. If there are complaints, we would certainly investigate and act accordingly.
Articles which contain such malicious allegations only make the already difficult battles tougher, given the stigma associated with HIV/AIDS and widespread unwillingness to deal with issues pertaining to sexual behaviour.
We are very proud of our volunteers and are deeply disappointed that such allegations about them and AfA have been made in the press. -
There might be new development in the US. The biggest obstacle now is the ultra conservative political system led by the Bush administration (imho).
Jen Christensen, Gay.com/PlanetOut.com Network
Tuesday 9 August, 2005 12:02
US poll: Support grows for gay marriage
The gay marriage movement may be gaining momentum in the United States,
as new poll results show an increasing number of Americans support
marriage rights for gay couples - the highest support since July 2003.
According to the new Pew Research Centre for People & the Press/Pew
Forum on Religion & Public Life poll, 35 percent of Americans polled
were in favour of allowing gay couples to get legally married.
Fifty-three percent still opposed marriage for gay couples, but that
same number of people polled, 53 percent, said they wanted gay couples
to have some kind of legal arrangement, such as civil unions.
"This is exactly what the right wing is afraid of," Evan Wolfson,
executive director of Freedom to Marry, said. "People have had a year
of legal marriage in Massachusetts to see how ending marriage
discrimination helps gay and lesbian families and hurts no one."
During 2003, Massachusetts' high court ruled that gay couples in that
state could get married, which they began doing in 2004. Following that
decision, 11 states passed anti-gay marriage amendments, and poll data
showed a slip in support for marriage rights.
The poll also showed a slight increase in religious groups' support for
marriage rights.
The poll questions were part of a broader study of national issues that
may face the incoming US Supreme Court nominee. Marriage rights for gay
couples did not figure in the top five issues people were concerned
would come before the Supreme Court. Abortion was the biggest interest,
followed by the rights of imprisoned terrorists.
The poll also touched on stem cell research, religious displays in
public forums, affirmative action and physician-assisted suicide.
Gay rights advocates such as Wolfson suggest these latest poll results
on the marriage issue show the effectiveness of gay activism and the
impact of equal marriage rights in Massachusetts.
"The long-term trend in America's civil rights discussion, including
this recent rebound of public support for marriage equality, which
follows the ferment and barrage of the past several months,
demonstrates the power of engaging the public and showing them the
reality of marriage equality, rather than right-wing rhetoric and scare
tactics."
Only the Netherlands, Spain and Belgium offer full gay marriage access,
while Canada is expected to introduce new legislation in the coming
months. -
This is found in a Thai newspaper..
10 Aug 2005
The Nation newspaper, Thailand
Opinion section
40 years of Singapore's nationhood
Singapore will celebrate its 40th anniversary of nation-building today
with a great spectacle that perfectly symbolises the story of its
economic success and the social harmonisation among its ethnically
diverse population. Forty years ago, Singapore separated from Malaysia
with an uncertain future. Today, Singapore has emerged as one of the
most developed economies of Asia an object of envy among its
neighbours.
Forty years of independence has witnessed a gradual process of
Singapore's national identity construction. Reborn in the age of Cold
War, Singapore imagined its sense of nationhood as a society where
political and economic centralisation was looked to as a prerequisite
of national progress. This aspect of Singaporean nationhood responded
well to the Cold War norms whereby one-man rule was believed to be able
to achieve rapid economic and social development.
In the 1990s, the promotion of economic nationalism that became
foundational to Singapore's national identity in the early years was
transformed into a more internationally-oriented economy with an
attempt to enlarge its economic presence on the global stage.
Singaporean corporations have played a predominant role in
strengthening the local economy not only in laying strong business
foundations domestically but being assertive in international trade
through overseas investments too. Singapore's economic success also has
very much to do with the government's support for the private sector
and the maximum use of human resources in ultimately placing Singapore
in the world-class league.
Throughout the four decades of nation-building, Singaporeans have
enjoyed a high living standard and been voted the best city in Asia,
alongside Tokyo, in terms of quality of life. It is known as one of the
most globalised cities in the world on the basis of its superb
infrastructure and the dependence on state-of-the-art technology
connecting it to the global network.
Singapore has retained its status of one of the world's largest oil
processing centres. Singapore ranks among the top three of the world's
busiest seaports. In the aviation sector, Singapore International
Airline has been voted the world's best carrier for 10 consecutive
years by the Travel and Leisure Magazine and offered the fourth
position by the World Airline Award of 2005. Changi International
Airport has also been listed as the most efficient airport in the
world.
Singapore is eager to declare itself as the global hub of various kinds
of business. It houses the world's best R&D operation in biomedical and
pharmaceutical sciences. Despite its lack of water resources, Singapore
has been chosen to lead the world research on water recycling and
desalination of water. Singapore has truly become a preferred
international meeting point and a favorite regional and international
headquarters for many multinational conglomerates.
Here, business achievements were made possible due to the successful
policy of ethnic harmonisation. Singaporeans have been segregated at
birth into ethnic groups but conditioned to think of ethnic diversity
as one Singaporean-ness. The government has upheld a strict ethnic
pluralistic policy with a guaranty of a freedom of expression of ethnic
identities. Apparently, during the National Day speech, the prime
minister is expected to give his remarks in English, Chinese and Malay.
However, what is so extraordinary about the 40th year anniversary of
Singapore is not about its socio-economic accomplishments.
This year's National Day slogan, "The Future is Ours to Make" loudly
conveys a message of a higher level of political openness. Since Prime
Minister Goh Chok Tong stepped down in August 2004, his successor, Lee
Hsien Loong who is the son of Singapore's founding father Lee Kuan Yew,
has adopted a more liberal approach in the handling of both domestic
and foreign affairs.
A greater political openness is closely related to improvement in
certain aspects of social and political life of Singapore, such as
political participation, national pride, success values and social
mobility. In the past, Singaporean society was reluctant to talk about
politics. Nowadays, people more openly discuss government policies.
A emerging new political model also means that the government has
loosened grip on some social issues. Though law and order is still in
place, Singapore is no longer "sanitised and lifeless" society, much
the butt of jokes in the past. Nightlife is ever more vibrant to serve
the need of globalised consumers. And although homosexuality remains a taboo subject within Singapore's society, the gay community is
increasingly visible and seeking to augment its voice in politics.
Ideologically, the new perspective of Singaporean politics sits
comfortably with nation-building in a capitalist economy a wonderful
reason for Singaporeans to rejoice the National Day this year.
Dr Pavin Chachavalpongpun is a Singapore-based Thai academic. -
simple. lets say there are 8 genes that will lead to the formation of a homosexual human. your mother has 4, your father has 4. out of those 8, 2 from each parent will lead to someone being gay, but only the right 4 in the right order. meaning, say, we label them 1 to 8, your mother has 1 2 3 4, your dad has 5 6 7 8. For u to be gay, u need 1 3 5 7, or 2 4 6 8 or certain other specific combinations. so maybe u got 1 2 6 8. so u're not gay. but if u got 1 3 5 7, u would have been gay. thats how homosexuality is due to genetic influence, and thats how its passed on thru genes.Originally posted by sgdiehard:genetic theory of gays?? how are genes passed down? reproduction through sex with an opposite sex, is it not the only natural way? and common sense! how do aunties and uncles of gays produce more offsprings with gays genes, unless they have the genes themselves, if they have the genes then how can they have sex with the opposite sex? Gays are born? May be, but is it natural, or sickness of the mind itself, a birth defect, a medical condition?
No more discussion for me. -
I asked some time back (in other thread) whether there were medical books which say homo are born.No one reply.
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If somehow homosexuality is passed through genes, it is a wrong combination!! and correction is required. If you were born with a quick temper, it will not justify all actions as a result of quick temper. Quick temper, if unchecked, can lead to murder; liking for the same gender, if not corrected, will lead to lust and sex with the same sex.Originally posted by HENG@:simple. lets say there are 8 genes that will lead to the formation of a homosexual human. your mother has 4, your father has 4. out of those 8, 2 from each parent will lead to someone being gay, but only the right 4 in the right order. meaning, say, we label them 1 to 8, your mother has 1 2 3 4, your dad has 5 6 7 8. For u to be gay, u need 1 3 5 7, or 2 4 6 8 or certain other specific combinations. so maybe u got 1 2 6 8. so u're not gay. but if u got 1 3 5 7, u would have been gay. thats how homosexuality is due to genetic influence, and thats how its passed on thru genes.
No intention to argue on something that is not proven and when I am not an expert.
Allow me to quote from Chin Eng from another thread,
"The nature and nurture thing: the human race changes all the time, there are cases where children are born alcoholic or drug-dependent (because of the problems of their parents), so do we treat this or accept that it is ok now to continue to bottlefeed vodka and supply ice to this kids? Of course, if you don't think this is a problem, that again, that's fine with me..... "
Men are not born perfect. That's why we need a savior, oops..... -
murder ends up with another individual losing his life. a homosexual couple, both consenting, doesn't end up with any individual at a loss at his expense, while if u wanna talk about rape, be it gay rape or straight rape, both will have a victim. As for alcoholism and drug abuse, it harms the individual as well, but if u want to tell me homosexuality is harmful because it helps spread AIDS i suggest u reconsider your argument because loose straight people help spread AIDS as well.Originally posted by sgdiehard:If somehow homosexuality is passed through genes, it is a wrong combination!! and correction is required. If you were born with a quick temper, it will not justify all actions as a result of quick temper. Quick temper, if unchecked, can lead to murder; liking for the same gender, if not corrected, will lead to lust and sex with the same sex.
No intention to argue on something that is not proven and when I am not an expert.
Allow me to quote from Chin Eng from another thread,
"The nature and nurture thing: the human race changes all the time, there are cases where children are born alcoholic or drug-dependent (because of the problems of their parents), so do we treat this or accept that it is ok now to continue to bottlefeed vodka and supply ice to this kids? Of course, if you don't think this is a problem, that again, that's fine with me..... "
Men are not born perfect. That's why we need a savior, oops.....
so only if it leads to a case where something happens to the detriment of another individual, your saying that "liking for the same gender, if not corrected, will lead to lust and sex with the same sex." is in the same vein as "Quick temper, if unchecked, can lead to murder" is simply wrong. A quick look at the logic doesn't even hold up to scrutiny, because in the case of a quick temper, another individual loses out at his expense, but that doesn't happen in lust and sex with the same sex does it?
I think the problem u people have is that in your own minds u think of sex with the same sex as being a crime on par with murder. That is definately bigoted, and heterosexist. Seriously, what are u? Neanderthals? -
just because we don't know about the existance of such books doesn't mean there aren't any. We aren't doctors, there might be books around that we don't know of. Your view that something u don't know about doesn't exist is very frog in the well isn't it?Originally posted by PRP:I asked some time back (in other thread) whether there were medical books which say homo are born.No one reply.
but guess what? there IS a book which says homos r natural. This medical book is called Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Fourth Edition (DSM-IV).
Its a Diagnostic Criteria for the most common mental disorders including: description, diagnosis, treatment, and research findings, published by the American Psychiatric Association, Washington D.C., 1994, the main diagnostic reference of Mental Health professionals in the United States of America.
This book is THE Bible of the psychiatric, psychological, and sociological world, and in it, it clearly states homosexuality to be completely normal and in no way is in need of any sort of medical treatment to "cure" it. -
Hi Heng,
could we move the moral discussion to the other thread?
or else, this thread will be locked for nothing again.. thx.. =p
edit: just realise that u didnt talk about moral issues.. heh.. my bad..
to make this post still relevant, have u attended any of the IndigNation program?
-
Originally posted by HENG@:
in truth... in psychology, it's still undecided. it will continued to be debated and the issue isnt as clear cut. every month... the different journals will all state their cases. speaking of which, i attended an open debate on homosexuality in my uni in aussie last year ... the issue remains quite seperated still.
just because we don't know about the existance of such books doesn't mean there aren't any. We aren't doctors, there might be books around that we don't know of. Your view that something u don't know about doesn't exist is very frog in the well isn't it?
but guess what? there IS a book which says homos r natural. This medical book is called [b]Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Fourth Edition (DSM-IV).
Its a Diagnostic Criteria for the most common mental disorders including: description, diagnosis, treatment, and research findings, published by the American Psychiatric Association, Washington D.C., 1994, the main diagnostic reference of Mental Health professionals in the United States of America.
This book is THE Bible of the psychiatric, psychological, and sociological world, and in it, it clearly states homosexuality to be completely normal and in no way is in need of any sort of medical treatment to "cure" it.[/b]
i guess it will continue to be that way until they can, with the use of genetic mapping, point out a gene that causes homosexual behaviour.
a small disclaimer; i ain't advocating any stance on this issue
juz a small contribution on my part~ -
Yup, you are right that there's no conclusive evidence yet. As much as there's no conclusive evidence that smoking "causes" cancer.Originally posted by ben1xy:in truth... in psychology, it's still undecided. it will continued to be debated and the issue isnt as clear cut. every month... the different journals will all state their cases. speaking of which, i attended an open debate on homosexuality in my uni in aussie last year ... the issue remains quite seperated still.
i guess it will continue to be that way until they can, with the use of genetic mapping, point out a gene that causes homosexual behaviour.
a small disclaimer; i ain't advocating any stance on this issue
juz a small contribution on my part~
However, what psychologists in general are certain of is:
Attempts to modify sexual orientation (known as "conversion therapies" or “reparative therapies” and so far targeted only at LGB-identified individuals) have been condemned by numerous professional organizations in the scientific field for causing depression (sometimes leading to suicide) and for being ineffective. Indeed, the largest "reparative" therapy organization, a ministry called Exodus International, was started by two formerly homosexual men who several years later ended up leaving the ministry, denouncing it, and living as a homosexual couple themselves. The American Psychological Association in 1997 passed a resolution declaring therapists in these groups engaged in such conversion therapies to be following unethical and unhealthy practices.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual -
Originally posted by earthlings73:
i have no problem with wad u advocate. i have no problem with homosexuals or smokers.
Yup, you are right that there's no conclusive evidence yet. As much as there's no conclusive evidence that smoking "causes" cancer.
However, what psychologists in general are certain of is:
[b]Attempts to modify sexual orientation (known as "conversion therapies" or “reparative therapies” and so far targeted only at LGB-identified individuals) have been condemned by numerous professional organizations in the scientific field for causing depression (sometimes leading to suicide) and for being ineffective. Indeed, the largest "reparative" therapy organization, a ministry called Exodus International, was started by two formerly homosexual men who several years later ended up leaving the ministry, denouncing it, and living as a homosexual couple themselves. The American Psychological Association in 1997 passed a resolution declaring therapists in these groups engaged in such conversion therapies to be following unethical and unhealthy practices.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual[/b]
wad i aim is for a proper representation from both sides (the pro and the anti camp).
Even academics that have been researching on this issue havent been able to conclusively come to an agreement.
i reckon if u ask a doctor whether smoking causes cancer.... 95% will tell u yes. in this case, it's not a fair comparison on both issues as the field of psychology has not reached such an overwhelming majority.
once again .. i am not anti-homosexual or homophobic... heck.. i have been living in aussie for years now... gotten used to it. -
no worries, ben.. i agree with the position that research has not been conclusive..Originally posted by ben1xy:i have no problem with wad u advocate. i have no problem with homosexuals or smokers.
wad i aim is for a proper representation from both sides (the pro and the anti camp).
Even academics that have been researching on this issue havent been able to conclusively come to an agreement.
i reckon if u ask a doctor whether smoking causes cancer.... 95% will tell u yes. in this case, it's not a fair comparison on both issues as the field of psychology has not reached such an overwhelming majority.
once again .. i am not anti-homosexual or homophobic... heck.. i have been living in aussie for years now... gotten used to it.
however, it's even more important to address the practicalities:
should someone advocate change therapy even when you still do not know for sure whether gays are borned or made?
even though psychologists do not know for sure whether gays are borned or made, most of them do not support change therapy..
however, do also note that they are more and more evidences pointing to a biological influence.. Traditional psychological paradigms (specifically, the psychodynamic traditions) supporting the nurture side of the equation argue that gays are cause by weak father role model and domineering mum.. however, such views have proven to be over simplistic..
Beyond the psychodynamic traditions, I have not seen any other theories supporting the nurture side of the argument.. -
let me point it out to u, it is far from undecided. It is not any different journal here. This medical book is THE HOLY BIBLE of the psychiatric, psychological, and sociological world.Originally posted by ben1xy:in truth... in psychology, it's still undecided. it will continued to be debated and the issue isnt as clear cut. every month... the different journals will all state their cases. speaking of which, i attended an open debate on homosexuality in my uni in aussie last year ... the issue remains quite seperated still.
i guess it will continue to be that way until they can, with the use of genetic mapping, point out a gene that causes homosexual behaviour.
a small disclaimer; i ain't advocating any stance on this issue
juz a small contribution on my part~
Need I point out that in religion, it is far from decided too? there is a major split in most western countries' xtian community about this issue. -
Again I might remind u that if THE HOLY BIBLE of the psychological field. If whatever stance inside wasn't the majority and conclusive view, i doubt that it would be included inside, and if it was, it wouldn't be considered THE HOLY BIBLE of the psychological field anymore.Originally posted by ben1xy:Even academics that have been researching on this issue havent been able to conclusively come to an agreement.