Home > Speaker's Corner

are opportunities given to polytechnic grads ?

Mama
9 Mar 02, 02:36

From close observation l realise that only 20% of poly grads make it to local uni , what about the other 80% . Unfortunately most S'porean are not that well to do as from the appearance on the outside . 50-60k will defintely be a burden to many parents who intend to provide their child's need for further education.So what should they do and where can they go . If u belongs to the above situation , pls leave your comments and advices.
Shotgun
10 Mar 02, 03:06

I think when the Open Uni, is set up, education would actually benefit poly grads more. Opportunities for poly grads are definitely there, just that in various degrees. Right not, only the top 10% of poly grads actually make it to Uni. Which is why I feel that the open uni would actually be helpful to anyone who wishes to further their education.
bluecharade
11 Mar 02, 10:15

The University ststem in Singapore was made such a way to cater more to JC students.Tat explains why only 20% of diploma holders actually get to the U.Therefore,JC is the more direct route to UNi Here in S'pore.
Mama
11 Mar 02, 12:42

probably u said hat because u are an JC student . Well there isnt any consideration for those who did not make it to local uni. They are left to survive on their own , if u got no $ to study overseas thats your problem , and this is what had happened so far for many . Overseas studies seems nice and easy but for typical s;poreans ; who can afford $50k cash , even a bank loan can be a real burden after those overseas students had graduated , save money for future , give money to pareents and worst still bank loan . Just like what the oppositions had mentioned " New Poor " .

But just too bad , many of us can't do anything to change the situations , What to do ? There are only 2 uni and thousands are fighting for limited places , worse come to worse foreign students are here to compete with us .
Mama
11 Mar 02, 12:45

sob sob
Shotgun
12 Mar 02, 02:38

Which is why students are encouraged to work harder and obtain scholarships.
tripwire
12 Mar 02, 07:49

Originally posted by Mama:
probably u said hat because u are an JC student . Well there isnt any consideration for those who did not make it to local uni. They are left to survive on their own , if u got no $ to study overseas thats your problem , and this is what had happened so far for many . Overseas studies seems nice and easy but for typical s;poreans ; who can afford $50k cash , even a bank loan can be a real burden after those overseas students had graduated , save money for future , give money to pareents and worst still bank loan . Just like what the oppositions had mentioned " New Poor " .

But just too bad , many of us can't do anything to change the situations , What to do ? There are only 2 uni and thousands are fighting for limited places , worse come to worse foreign students are here to compete with us .

well.... u choose to go poly wat... blame who???

and for those who goes to JC... it wasnt smooth sailing also... they have their problems as well... and if more spaces are given for poly diploma holders... it automatically means less space for those who goes through JCs.... think about them too when u think about yourself.....

at least u got a diploma... a tertiary education that gives u the ability to make a living... those A level holders are still consider skill-less academic holder.... if they dont get to university... their future is kaput.... and for those who managed to get into the university... its no easy life also... especially for guys who had to serve 2 year NS beforehand.... many uni grads guys results suffered becos of that (out goes the honours degree) and some were even asked to leave the university becos they cannot catch up in time.....

taking the diploma is a safer bet... and if u have no money to go oversea... simple lah... go and buy a degree from those 1 year part time course... its only about 13k... check first hor.... i know that some stupid govt dept actually accepts these part time degree over local university degree...*shock?* i was.....

in future.... maybe getting a degree will be just a walk into a provision shop and haggle the price with the towkay there....:>
Mama
12 Mar 02, 16:41

well dude l agree with u , both sides have both their own stories , but what really piss me off is that A level cert with Bs and Cs can make it to uni , shit man ! Poor poly grads with average Bs dont even qualify. Is poly standard really lousy ? Yes, A level student should have more chances since they can't do anything with an A cert but should A cert with screw-up Cs qualify ? Try harder next yr ?
Eyezer
12 Mar 02, 17:35

I think they should make it a 30%Dip and 70%A's proportion to the class. Makes it more competitive(cos they assume Dip-holders knows more) and also I believe there will be a more 'satisfied' student population.

For those who have fail to get what they want from A's, there's always some 'dumping ground' in Uni where there's the 'not so' popular courses, places where Dip-holders wouldn't even apply for. Maybe that can be open to the A's, wholly.

They can always work out compromises, right?
tripwire
13 Mar 02, 07:39

Originally posted by Mama:
well dude l agree with u , both sides have both their own stories , but what really piss me off is that A level cert with Bs and Cs can make it to uni , shit man ! Poor poly grads with average Bs dont even qualify. Is poly standard really lousy ? Yes, A level student should have more chances since they can't do anything with an A cert but should A cert with screw-up Cs qualify ? Try harder next yr ?
You are comparing apples and pineapples.... the grades in A levels are not equivalent of grades in poly diplomas... and vice versa...

and to be frank... many courses in poly does not need a good O level to get in...while many JC woulnt even think of accepting the student..... thus if we use the same comparison... its as good as saying that an ITE results of A's and B's is as good as Poly or even A level results of A's and B's... so why dont we open the university to ITE cert as well??

Please understand that when i say that the grades are not equivalent... it is not becos i think that the poly or ITE education is of lower standard compare to A levels... its simply becos each instituition are teaching different things!!!

Nowadays with the SATs entrance examination... grades is no longer the sole factor in determining entrance to university...... but SATs is a 2 edge sword... some poly grads may benefit even if their grades are poor .... but some poly grads may not benefit... even if their grades are good.
tripwire
13 Mar 02, 07:46

Originally posted by Eyezer:
I think they should make it a 30%Dip and 70%A's proportion to the class. Makes it more competitive(cos they assume Dip-holders knows more) and also I believe there will be a more 'satisfied' student population.

For those who have fail to get what they want from A's, there's always some 'dumping ground' in Uni where there's the 'not so' popular courses, places where Dip-holders wouldn't even apply for. Maybe that can be open to the A's, wholly.

They can always work out compromises, right?
1. why not make it 10%poly and 90%A ??? why even allow poly diploma holders to go to U in the first place??? i think we should think of others before we think of ourselves..... when u lower the intake of A level student... u are not merely lowering a figure... u are actually reccomending that some of the A level students future to be either delayed or wrecked... pls think before u say anything....

2. dumping grounds??? ok... do you want to be dump into a dumping ground?? please think before u say something.... watever u dont wish for yourself... please dont wish it on others... your life or future is no more equal or important then the next fella.

3. kindly go to the nearest monastery, shave off ur hair and chant the sutra before the buddha and learn how to think for others.... or if u are christian... go to a church and repent....
Eyezer
13 Mar 02, 16:49

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tripwire:
[B] 1. why not make it 10%poly and 90%A ??? why even allow poly diploma holders to go to U in the first place??? i think we should think of others before we think of ourselves..... when u lower the intake of A level student... u are not merely lowering a figure... u are actually reccomending that some of the A level students future to be either delayed or wrecked... pls think before u say anything....

So you are saying that just because they are A levellers, they have the right to be in local Uni, irregardless of their grades? I think that's a bit unfair for those Dip holders. In the first place, those going for A's already know of the risk that eist when they make the decision to go for it. So who to blame? Us?

2. dumping grounds??? ok... do you want to be dump into a dumping ground?? please think before u say something.... watever u dont wish for yourself... please dont wish it on others... your life or future is no more equal or important then the next fella.

I think u also have to agree that there is such a place in Uni, ask your Uni friends to confirm that. Not exacting that 'dumping ground' but it's just a phrase used for those less competitive/popular courses. If you are desperate with nowhere to go with a lousy A's, u think u'll care where is the best course? i dun think so.....
Janine
14 Mar 02, 19:10

I think its time Spore wake up and stop thinking that paper qualifications or A's on a cert, means the student is good.

Nowadays, with so many people scoring A's on the O and A levels, its really nothing to shout about. Yes, I give them the respect that they've worked hard for their grades. But I think its even more admirable for those in a difficult situation to get good results. Like Channel U highlighted a girl who had lekumia and she took her O's in the hospital. That's the kind of person who will survive in society. She's a fighter.

I had a teacher who was a Masters holder from NUS. And she can't teach for nuts! While another one of my teachers, who had only A levels, was really brillant.

Sadly, many employers in Spore today are still hung up about grades.

As for poly students, I do think they should be given more chances. And even for those who didn't do well in the A's. Not all of them can afford overseas education. And even private courses in Spore, costs a great bomb. Imagine a degree course that costs 30K. How long would we need to save up for it, assuming that our take-home is only about 1500 at most (tis is soon after graduation)?

The govt really should open up CPF funds for education. I don't see why the funds could be used to local tertiary students and not private/overseas studies. there was an exchange of letters about it in the papers recently and they replied CPF funds are for retiring. And they are afraid that parents may make the wrong choice by sending their kids for overseas studies.

Hello? Its our money after all and we need to govt to teach us how we should spend it? I believe its more like, they r afraid once they open up this revenus, loads of Sporeans would head overseas. Why shouldnt we? Spore told us to welcome foreign talents right? So why can't we become foreign talents in other countries which may welcome us?
tripwire
14 Mar 02, 21:05

Originally posted by Eyezer:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by tripwire:
[B] 1. why not make it 10%poly and 90%A ??? why even allow poly diploma holders to go to U in the first place??? i think we should think of others before we think of ourselves..... when u lower the intake of A level student... u are not merely lowering a figure... u are actually reccomending that some of the A level students future to be either delayed or wrecked... pls think before u say anything....

So you are saying that just because they are A levellers, they have the right to be in local Uni, irregardless of their grades? I think that's a bit unfair for those Dip holders. In the first place, those going for A's already know of the risk that eist when they make the decision to go for it. So who to blame? Us?

2. dumping grounds??? ok... do you want to be dump into a dumping ground?? please think before u say something.... watever u dont wish for yourself... please dont wish it on others... your life or future is no more equal or important then the next fella.

I think u also have to agree that there is such a place in Uni, ask your Uni friends to confirm that. Not exacting that 'dumping ground' but it's just a phrase used for those less competitive/popular courses. If you are desperate with nowhere to go with a lousy A's, u think u'll care where is the best course? i dun think so.....
***

I think we need to see this whole argument in a clear perspective....

first and foremost... the questions should be... IS there a quota for poly student gainst A level student? IF not.. the debates ends here.... as the number or the standard of the A level student has no effect on diploma holders admission into the university. another way of putting it... is... as long as the diploma holder meets the entrance requirement of the particular faculty of studies in the university... he or she will be accepted.

here i need to emphasized that the diploma holder meets the requirement of the faculty of choice... as unlike A level students... diploma holders are by trainning in the poly... a skill professional in a particular field... while an A level student can go to any faculty of his choice as long as he meets the requirement of the faculty... ONE cannot see the reasoning for a EEE diploma holder to join the legal or medicine faculty.

the second question would be... why dont the diploma holder queried the university admin directly as to the reasons pertaining to his application failure??

as far as i see it... the university admin is in a far better position to answer ur queries then anyone of us here.
jungleboy111
14 Mar 02, 23:23

Want to go uni, then in the first place dun go poly....
Poly grads oredi have a chance at tertiary education. What makes them so special that they can go for another shot at it in the uni? There are others, mainly the JC pple who have yet a chance to tertiary education. That is what the uni is for.....not for poly students.
Shotgun
16 Mar 02, 04:41

Jeez jungleboy, what makes you so special to be able to think of dictating a person's maximum academic achievement?

Diploma holders, in a sense has already narrowed themselves down to a certain course of study. It means that IT dip holders should be taking IT-related degrees in Unis. I mean, IT dip holders, taking medicine???????? err.

If you think that the only place to get recognised degrees is NUS or NTU, then think again. I believe that the open uni. will allow many others to benefit from uni. education, and earn respected degrees.
Janine
20 Mar 02, 18:09

In response to tripwire, there is indeed a quota for poly students seeking admission to the local unis. My aunt works in NUS. She's one of those who's involved in the annual 'recruitment' exercises. And she has confirmed with me that they do indeed have a quota for poly students.

Looking at my friends, I would think so too. Many of my friends are hold diploma with merit. But they have been unable to gain entry as there are applicants with better grades. It is stated right in the letter informing them of their application status.
Some of them have tried contacting the relevant personnel for appeals, or to seek out the 'true' reasons. But these requests were unentertained.

Anyway, be it poly oc students, gaining admission into local unis, I juz wanna say a deg may be impt. It is indeed a passport to start your life with. But it isn't a passport to a life of job satisfaction. Juz my 2 cents worth.
loverboy282002
30 Apr 02, 20:58

Originally posted by Mama:
probably u said hat because u are an JC student . Well there isnt any consideration for those who did not make it to local uni. They are left to survive on their own , if u got no $ to study overseas thats your problem , and this is what had happened so far for many . Overseas studies seems nice and easy but for typical s;poreans ; who can afford $50k cash , even a bank loan can be a real burden after those overseas students had graduated , save money for future , give money to pareents and worst still bank loan . Just like what the oppositions had mentioned " New Poor " .

But just too bad , many of us can't do anything to change the situations , What to do ? There are only 2 uni and thousands are fighting for limited places , worse come to worse foreign students are here to compete with us .
No Frill
30 Apr 02, 21:27

I think that when one tries to compare polys and JCs - Unis; one is embarking on an exercise in futility. Both have different purposes to serve.
No doubt that polys students generally have poorer O level results, but that doesn't mean taht all the A level people are brillant either.
I think it is the fault of society for conferring such undeserved values of 'greatness' on those JC people, and converesely conferring the 'dumping ground' mentality on the poly grads.
Once you get to the workplace, you'll find out that having a diploma or a degree means jackshit and it comes down to how you do your work. Seriously. Take it from me.

On the other hand, I think that it is a serious mistake trying to integrate poly students via a fixed percentile into the universities here. It should all be done on a basis of equality and if as a meritious student from the poly is poor, there are sufficient scholarships and bursaries available to him. This goes even for uni undergrads.
No one in S'pore is deprived of a place in poly of uni just cos he/she is poor. And what sort of an argument is that universities are 'too exp' for poly students? Thats rubbish. Poly students pay just as much if not more for their courses. So it all comes down to ability.
If one makes it far, then ragardless of financial status, the govt will be there to help out financially.

But don't expect the govt to save places for you if you yourself don't make the mark. I refuse to accept that fixed quotas should be set aside for poly grads = this smacks of affirmative action and flies in the face of meritocracy.
I mean, if the person in question is floundering already in poly, why should he be given a place in the university? Isn't he overstretching his ability?

So, places to those with merit. Financial status is a non-issue here cos the gove will provide - as long as your results are good enough. And lets stop all this 'who is better' bickering.
CAINEEEEEEEE
2 May 02, 17:43

my own view is that poly graduates indeed finds it hard to enter local universities like NUS and NTU.

I have friends, who might not be Certificate of Merit holders but their results in poly are just below the COM holders, with quite a number of Dists, A's and B's.

Sometimes, i find our society cruel to us too: like my case, i did badly for my 'O' lvls, did ok for my 1st year in poly, done badly for my second year cause i mixed up with the wrong bunch of people. finally realise my mistake, worked hard for my final year and did good for all subjects.

now, i am finding a permanent job in the working environment but not so successful.

wanted to carry on with studies, hoping to obtain a basic degree.
but when people came across my past results in sec sch and poly, i myself can sence that they have rejected me straight away, its just that they put it in a nicer way, saying that they would have to take some time to cnsider about me and will get back to me in a few days' time. in the end, my phone did not even rings for a single second at all.

I have to say that one might not be good at its studies but when you actually worked with him/her, you find that he was indeed a good guy to be employed: he's honest, hardworking and willing to learn any new skills on the job to increase the output of the company.

but normally, in this kind of situation in singapore right now, employers might not be willing to take this kind of risk, employing someone like what i have mentioned earlier.

so sad...

so conclusion: you have to be good in your studies, good, excellent results shown on your certificates and best if you are able to obtain a degree and followed by a masters.
Cause degrees are too common nowsdays and indeed for the next 10 years time.

I'm not saying that you cannot survive in singapore without a degreebut it's best to have one.

i remember hearing from the news that singapore hoped to have 1 degree graduate in every 4 people in the future. current ratio is every 5 people, ther's 1 degree holder.