How can the "opposition party" make Singapore Better....
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Durai this kind of ppl will exist in Singapore becoz our dear PAP leaders set a "bad example".They openly corrupted by giving themselves such a "high salary".When coming to election,whether it is General election or presidential election,they disqualified opposition candidates as they pleased.So that they can continue rule Singapore n corrupt as much as they want!!!Originally posted by Elfred:I thought with optimism we can work wonders...?
PAP will remain, at least for this round, that's the most critical part we'd need to know. How then from here... it's all up to fate...
Remember, PAP, WP or SDP are just names. It's always the people behind those pees. You curse PAP and PAP dismantles itself, gone, no more PAP... but you might find BCK or Mr Durai and such quietly gathers at WP or SDP or SPP... or under a new pee...
So?
Who to blame? PAP? Or the people?
Now, PAP members, including meself, are also part of the state, part of the people. Don't just blame PAP PAP PAP. What if Clinton kena reborn and lead PAP later on after 100 years? Hahahahahaha...
Still don't get it, Drawer?
If i am Durai,i will think that if the PAP leaders can be so rogue n corruptive,why cant i?????As a matter of fact,i believe more n more Singaporeans are learning from PAP leaders their rogue behaviour n their corruptive mindset,and thats including me!!!!But dont blame us,PAP leaders taught us that.Still dont get it,Elfred? -
Drawer, people as Durai the Greed everywhere, un-discovered or discovered. In the end, people like myself would end up risking grey areas because of these pests in society. You probably don't know the self-proclaimed white knight who claimed all th big sh!ts whom I went sought help from threatened me.Originally posted by drawer:Durai this kind of ppl will exist in Singapore becoz our dear PAP leaders set a "bad example".They openly corrupted by giving themselves such a "high salary".When coming to election,whether it is General election or presidential election,they disqualified opposition candidates as they pleased.So that they can continue rule Singapore n corrupt as much as they want!!!
If i am Durai,i will think that if the PAP leaders can be so rogue n corruptive,why cant i?????As a matter of fact,i believe more n more Singaporeans are learning from PAP leaders their rogue behaviour n their corruptive mindset,and thats including me!!!!But dont blame us,PAP leaders taught us that.Still dont get it,Elfred?
Put it this way, nowhere is safe. If PAP ain't ruling, these people'd probably fund WP or SPP or SDP or what pee and end up friends of other Pees. It's all the same. The problem is, how come it's getting harder for the PAP to absorb good leaders and maintain a good world? Getting rid of PAP isn't necessarily going to help. Getting rid of Sgforum or YP forum ain't gonna stop people from being angry with PAP, isn't it? People'd just migrate to some foreign forums or what and regroup.
So now, the critical issue is about PAP getting good elements to glow in the party and clean up things. Maybe... there could be something missing or wrong that the party is doing. So any comment to offer?
Feel free. -
The problem is, the opposition parties have not been given any chances to prove themselves capable of doing better than our gahmen. So how do you know they are not capable of better?
If we have had them rule, and if they had not fared well, then it would be more justifiable to dismiss them.
Many Singaporeans derive their conclusions before even allowing others a chance to prove themselves.
Basically, it's all down to perception.
You had an apple. It was sweet. There is another apple on the table. It doesn't look sweet but you don't know. You do not intend to try either because it doesn't look sweet. So how will you ever know it isn't just as sweet, if not sweeter? That's basically what's happening here.
Having a good product doesn't mean there aren't superior ones around.
And I do agree with the bit about the subjectiveness of our media. Why else do you think it was ranked 147th in the world for?
It would be easier to believe a convicted serial killer trying to plead innocent. Heh! -
Why do you need a 2nd key? Ans is check and balance.Originally posted by loosefuse:The problem is, the opposition parties have not been given any chances to prove themselves capable of doing better than our gahmen. So how do you know they are not capable of better?
If we have had them rule, and if they had not fared well, then it would be more justifiable to dismiss them.
Many Singaporeans derive their conclusions before even allowing others a chance to prove themselves.
Basically, it's all down to perception.
You had an apple. It was sweet. There is another apple on the table. It doesn't look sweet but you don't know. You do not intend to try either because it doesn't look sweet. So how will you ever know it isn't just as sweet, if not sweeter? That's basically what's happening here.
Having a good product doesn't mean there aren't superior ones around.
And I do agree with the bit about the subjectiveness of our media. Why else do you think it was ranked 147th in the world for?
It would be easier to believe a convicted serial killer trying to plead innocent. Heh!
So Why do we need an opposition? see ans above
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?_?
what key?
Let me put it back to you then, how can we be sure that they do not "check and balance" towards their favor? How can we be sure that as a one-party nation they do not abuse the authority given to them? Can they prove they are going to be objective rather than subjective?
Have a good weekend. -
Besides, if we have no opposition, why hide behind that mask and call ourselves a democratic nation?
Might as well call us a dictatorship, if it isn't so very obvious yet..
Sorry if I misunderstood you though, didn't quite know what you meant. -
agree wif u - +1Originally posted by loosefuse:Besides, if we have no opposition, why hide behind that mask and call ourselves a democratic nation?
Might as well call us a dictatorship, if it isn't so very obvious yet..
Sorry if I misunderstood you though, didn't quite know what you meant. -
yeah true. Some healthy competition would be nice. for the PAP. But COMPETENT Competition.
Would have to agree with Atobe though. Chee and the likes could definitely use some PR help. So could JBJ. But JBJ's established himself as a respectable political opponent and what that the PAP's reveres, to some extent. Unlike Our dear Dr. Chee, whose being demonized. To demonize him further, just hire a lousy photographer and capture him at all the worst angles.
Oh yes, and he could do well to shed the glasses and engage in some calm, coolheaded debate instead of ranting and raving, or so our media tells us. If you ask me, the best way to change our government is perhaps not so much to toe the government line or be so outrageously against them but to slowly goad them and persuade them into change. Change is inevitable and time is needed. Like Atobe said, Chee's greatest flaw is, perchance, his impatience. -
Originally posted by ndsef:Yep, that is the question... that I hope forum members here can answer...
I am waiting...
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Why don't ask how you can make the "opposition party" better? And before one answers that, they should be very clear about their intent and purpose/ E.g. to provide an alternative voice, better serve the people, better balance, to challenge the incumbent party, because it is cool,? a It is because we are so saturated with this dependence mentality that we just hope the opposition party will spring up somehow with miracles to fight the stranglehold of the ruling party. otherwise, we just complain about being oppressed or compare to one living in some fascist country. could it be that many enjoy the willing victim statushood or is it pure indifference and ignorance? It is as good as saying, I dont care but I just wish to see some change, whatever. because as always, it is far easier to talk than to act...as past precedence have shown, the most voracious criticisms can be raised of the current system, then when election comes and some goodies are dispensed to one's pocket, you find all the noises subside, every qualm disappears and finally the taxi driver actually concentrates on his driving. but it cannot be blamed because of the nature of politics. There is one common feature present in all these election processes. that is, each one will try so hard to dig up enough dirt and whatever private vice and folly with the intention to taint the other's image. one begins to harp so much about integrity, credibility, ability etc and question if someone is capable in doing a certain job, nevermind about their good intentions. the fact is, it may not matter sometimes. for can anyone claim they are holier than thy neigbour? Choices comes with risks and before someone is given a chance to prove himself/herself, they could be slammed so hard and be branded a cheat, communist or something nasty and be forced to leave the country. what about those that escaped such scrutiny, could they have been such great masters of disguise or shielded by some invisible force field until later discovered? e.g. you can paint someone as a saint, then it so happens they are drunkards or maid abusers. I wonder. in trying to use these tactic, it is dirty in itself and really a shame but it is framed up in such a pretty way that tells everybody, these are the rules of the game. so, why should you wait for others to answer you? when you are given the opportunity to cast your vote, ask yourself what criterias am I judging the person, do I believe in his/her visions to make things better, more voices be heard, the common good or because plenty $ is lining my pocket, nice upgradings to the gracious hdb and the list goes on...the answer lies within.Originally posted by ndsef:Yep, that is the question... that I hope forum members here can answer...
I am waiting... -
If they are competent, well, they should join PAP.Originally posted by ablazegal:yeah true. Some healthy competition would be nice. for the PAP. But COMPETENT Competition.
Would have to agree with Atobe though. Chee and the likes could definitely use some PR help. So could JBJ. But JBJ's established himself as a respectable political opponent and what that the PAP's reveres, to some extent. Unlike Our dear Dr. Chee, whose being demonized. To demonize him further, just hire a lousy photographer and capture him at all the worst angles.
Oh yes, and he could do well to shed the glasses and engage in some calm, coolheaded debate instead of ranting and raving, or so our media tells us. If you ask me, the best way to change our government is perhaps not so much to toe the government line or be so outrageously against them but to slowly goad them and persuade them into change. Change is inevitable and time is needed. Like Atobe said, Chee's greatest flaw is, perchance, his impatience. -
And let the opposition pick up scraps? I believe they deserve equally good people.Originally posted by Elfred:If they are competent, well, they should join PAP. -
Jeez Elfred,Originally posted by Elfred:If they are competent, well, they should join PAP.
I had hoped you were just a tad bit more objective... -
Like what'd you be meaning?Originally posted by iveco:And let the opposition pick up scraps? I believe they deserve equally good people. -
I not objective meh? Hehehehe...Originally posted by pikamaster:Jeez Elfred,
I had hoped you were just a tad bit more objective...
Like how? -
I think the best way to make the opposition parties better is to form a coalition and pool all their resources together. Then, hire publicist and put up advertisements in television and hire economists to come up with a good economic plan to rival that of the PAP. This will convince the people to vote for the opposition without worrying that their rice bowls will be affected. Most importantly, elect a leader who is a good orator,( someone like Winston Churchill) and promise the people political reforms.
The point is to increase the awareness of Sinagpore's political problems.Moreover, the opposition should not try to gain support by visiting the residents all the time because it is a waste of time as it ultimately comes down to their ricebowls. -
Well, we already have the SDA, which is an alliance of SPP (Chiam See Tong), NSP (Steve Chia), PKMS and JPS (both of which are Malay-dominated).Originally posted by delonicdevil:I think the best way to make the opposition parties better is to form a coalition and pool all their resources together. Then, hire publicist and put up advertisements in television and hire economists to come up with a good economic plan to rival that of the PAP. This will convince the people to vote for the opposition without worrying that their rice bowls will be affected. Most importantly, elect a leader who is a good orator,( someone like Winston Churchill) and promise the people political reforms.
The point is to increase the awareness of Sinagpore's political problems.Moreover, the opposition should not try to gain support by visiting the residents all the time because it is a waste of time as it ultimately comes down to their ricebowls. -
You prop up circle-and-lightning too much.Originally posted by Elfred:I not objective meh? Hehehehe...
Like how?
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we hv CSJ and SDP too, u noe, in the SDA. I sorta think CSJ is pulling SDA's reputation down. Which party is the leader of SDA, incidentally?Originally posted by iveco:Well, we already have the SDA, which is an alliance of SPP (Chiam See Tong), NSP (Steve Chia), PKMS and JPS (both of which are Malay-dominated). -
Really, I thought CST would never allow that backstabber to join his coalition. Hasn't he forgotten the acrimonious manner in which he was ousted from the party he built?Originally posted by pikamaster:we hv CSJ and SDP too, u noe, in the SDA. I sorta think CSJ is pulling SDA's reputation down. Which party is the leader of SDA, incidentally? -
Originally posted by iveco:
Backstabber ?
Really, I thought CST would never allow that backstabber to join his coalition. Hasn't he forgotten the acrimonious manner in which he was ousted from the party he built?
Do you truly believe in this unholy propaganda that is probably created by the Ruling Party ?
If a leader is ineffective, is it not a democratic process for a leader to be "kicked out" from his position by those whom he lead ?
It is only unfortunate that it was only until the appearance of CSJ, that the members of the SDP found an alternative to CST.
It is also surprising that the same process that got CST out of the SDP still remains unaltered, and the same process can get CSJ kicked out too - No ?
Does the democratic process exist in the Ruling Party that will allow the grass root members to kick out LKY, or GCT, or LHL from the Ruling Party ?
There exist two tiers of members in the Ruling Party, and the Elite Class is immune to any process started by the lower tier of Ordinary Members to have them evicted from the Ruling Party.
Having been "kicked out" from the SDP, now CST has implemented the same two tier membership in his new SDA.
Those who believe in 'Democracy' should be seen to be doing so.
From all the Political Parties in Singapore, which political party is truly practising 'Democracy' in Singapore ?
Will you care to join the SDP and start a movement to kick CSJ out ?
The same SDP internal processes are still there that got CST 'kicked out' by CSJ - your 'back stabber' (?) -
Hi,Originally posted by Atobe:From all the Political Parties in Singapore, which political party is truly practising 'Democracy' in Singapore ?
I would like to know your answer to this question too
Anyway, for fact-stating purposes, Mr Chiam resigned as SDP Secretary-General. After that, he was expelled for mouthing bad things about the party to the media but was reinstated by the courts as an ordinary member (no longer cadre member). Before the 1997 GE, he quitted as a member to join SPP.
Regards -
Hi,Originally posted by iveco:Really, I thought CST would never allow that backstabber to join his coalition. Hasn't he forgotten the acrimonious manner in which he was ousted from the party he built?
The SDP is not a member party of the SDA.
SDA's four member parties are SPP, NSP, SJP and PKMS.
At the last GE in 2001, Workers' Party and SDP declined Mr Chiam's invitation to join SDA.
As to why Mr Chiam would extend his invitation to SDP and Dr Chee to join SDA, which means working again with people he left, is unknown to me.
Perhaps Mr Chiam feels his veto powers in SDA would keep SDP in check?
Regards