Again.

• yuu_kajima

  9 Apr 00, 10:29

  Alright, it's probably my fault that I didn't state this earlier. Firstly, this is a forum and we're here to discuss, not to make pointed remarks about each others' characters--Points of view differ, as do ranks and all. I'm not OCS, and I sure as hell would not like to go there. What can I say? I'm a supporter of an ideal type of peace. But like I said, it's idealistic. I know it'll never come about, and I'd like to know why---besides the war loving people out there provocating war. i once asked a friend what he thought, and he said that the Army did not lack personnel to sign up to fight their wars. I'm rather glad he's been proved right. Next, I'm still inclined to think that war occurs because of staunch and obstinate ideals that politicians have. In trying to prove a point, they WILL go to war. Don't keep thinking that S'pore is the non-aggressor--the army heads HAVE said in a talk that they WIll go the offensive--tactically. And I seriously do not like the business of going around demanding apologies from countries just because of some minor insult. Can't they ask properly? And, as for that hideous thing, I did that on purpose.(Duh)Next, I'm NOT here to complain. I can complain all I want to my pals and plat.mates--I just don't see WHY people must fight to defend the "Country" against things our politicians do. Let me put it this way--the "Enemy" is also human. They have the EXACT same sentiments as YOU ALL do. They do not wish to die--they probably do not wish to fight for something they do not believe in. I dunno. But all I'm sure of is that, in war NO ONE WINS. The enemy soldier has a family too. You think they'll feel any better? So you think that by "defending" yourself, you have the rigght to kill other people who, like you, have friends and family? You call me selfish--so you guys sure are generous to kill all the enemies so you can live. You only have one life. WHY??? WHY DO YOU GUYS WANT TO DEFEND SOME POLITICIANS IDEALS SO MUCH?? WHY CAN'T YOU ALL JUST GIVE IT A REST?? Centuries of war and destruction--centuries of killing and bloodshed to bulid up the world you see now--and people will never rest--for a NEWER<, BETTER world they will kill and pillage and burn and rape and DESTROY for. If I am a fool for thinking that we should fight against the system for individual peace of mind and not having to fight for political issues, then you are even bigger fools to want to die for someone who doesn't know you(Pres.)and for something which will never remember you(the peop)And the only people crying at any of our tombs would be our heartbroken Mothers and fathers and friends. No one gives a hoot about how and why you die--frankly, I would sooner get shot by the enemy-I don't have a purpose in life--I just wanna be left alone. I'd give my life if it was needed to find some peace of mind. You guys probably don't give a hoot about how the enemy soldiers die--they're like target practice--bang, bang,bang, Three of "'em" down. Do their lives flash before you? Cos not--you aren't the one dying. And when YOU get shot--you will be treated just like that--one of "em". No---you guys are OCS--you'll probably send your men to die first, right? You have to answer for them, but then, it's war, ain't it? What the hell.
• Illegal Operation

  9 Apr 00, 12:17

  I have heard similar opinions before.. they come from the Jehovah Witnesses who knocks on my doors..
• sunray

  9 Apr 00, 13:59

  u keep talking abt peace...and abt negative things abt army....WHY????
  if our neighbours were to attack us...maybe u can go and talk them abt peace....see what they door say to u!!!!
  maybe u r from JW....and i will be glad to see u go to Detention Barrack!!! I have seen many JWs, including army officers who was later converted to JWs after their commission who went to DB....just remember this, JW is a cults....
• yoohoo

  9 Apr 00, 19:33

  Sunray, u seems to sound like u were an MP when u are in NS. So what did u ppl do to those "brothers"??
  
  Anyway, even if JW do not believe in war and violence, they do have their right to belief in something which they think is true.
  
  We cannot critise their "religion" (i don't know if this is a religion or not). Each have their own thinking.
  
  Likewise, they cannot force us to become a JW if we do not want to. In fact, i think they are very great, willing to spend 3yrs in DB just for something which they have strong faith in. Can u and I or anyone reading this, willing to spend 3 yrs in DB (cannot book out, have to keep botak tru'out) rather than to serve 2 1/2 yrs of NS and F**K off?
  
  I doubt so......
  
  So please have some respect for them. All they want is peace. We also wish to see peace, but we also know that by refusing to serve NS will not allow us to enjoy peace. Hence we had "chosen" to serve NS.
• LittleMan Supporter

  9 Apr 00, 22:13

  yuu_kajima,
  
  why are you posting a new thread ? Why not continue at the thread "National Service" ? since they have the same content ?
  
  Are you avoiding all those questions posted to you by LittleMan ?
  
  It will be great if you can answer them one by one so that we can know your thinkings better instead of just carry on yaking away.
  
  If you are here for a discussion why not answer them ?
  
  btw, i am also a Man, but i do not support your views.
  
  Besides those questions posted by LittleMan, here are my questions :
  
  1. YOU SAID : Next, I'm still inclined to think that war occurs because of staunch and obstinate ideals that politicians have.
  
  What if you are attacked by an enemy ? For example, the case of Kuwait. Kuwait was so easily conquered by Iraq because he trusted this "brother" too much and had spent very little in military training and equipment. Do you think we should follow Kuwait's footstep ? In this case, Kuwait's government did not make any decisions on the war at all, they were simply INVADED.
  
  2. YOU SAID : So you think that by "defending" yourself, you have the rigght to kill other people who, like you, have friends and family?
  
  Yes, you are very right. In war, every soldier is a murderer. But what do you suggest to do when an enemy come after you with a GPMG ? Sit down and preach ? Do you have a better suggestion rather than to fight back ? Please enlighten cos i believe many of the forumites here will like to know.
  
  3. YOU SAID : WHY??? WHY DO YOU GUYS WANT TO DEFEND SOME POLITICIANS IDEALS SO MUCH?? WHY CAN'T YOU ALL JUST GIVE IT A REST??
  
  Like the example I cited on Kuwait, the Kuwaitis DID NOT fight to defend the ideals of their politicians. They fought because they were attacked. If a dog bites you, what will you do ?
  
  4. YOU SAID : No---you guys are OCS--you'll probably send your men to die first, right?
  
  I am not an Officer. I am a man, just like you. So is LittleMan (he wrote it in his last post in the Thread "criteria for Officers ..." but edited it after that. I happened to read it before he edited it)
  
  5. After all these yaking, we come down to this inevitable question : yuu_kajima, you have your ideals, good, i respect that. So can you please tell me how do you suggest it can be achieved ? If we can really do away with the Army, it will really be great ! Not only can we do away with all those trainings, the country can also save huge amount of money on weapons. But who is going to ensure our freedom then ?
  
  Hope you can answer these questions ONE BY ONE.
  
  [This message has been edited by LittleMan Supporter (edited 09 April 2000).]
• Illegal Operation

  10 Apr 00, 01:16

  Hi Little Man Licker..
  
  Yuu and you are on different subjects altogether.
  
  He's discussing ethitc and humanity....an idea, and a vision of peace at a higher level...
  
  You are citing down-to-earth reasons and scenerios of why war should be fought, and countries should be defended.
  
  So.. you can argue till the cows, ducks, pigs and hens come home (and go out again probably) and not reach an agreement.
• LittleMan Supporter

  10 Apr 00, 02:31

  Originally posted by Illegal Operation:

  Hi Little Man Licker..
  
  Yuu and you are on different subjects altogether.
  
  He's discussing ethitc and humanity....an idea, and a vision of peace at a higher level...
  
  You are citing down-to-earth reasons and scenerios of why war should be fought, and countries should be defended.
  
  So.. you can argue till the cows, ducks, pigs and hens come home (and go out again probably) and not reach an agreement.

  so ? wat is the forum for then ? A place where you yak wat you want and i yak wat i want and everybody just keep on yaking away regardless of if anybody is listening ? Where is the comunicaton and exchange of thoughts if everybody just yak like that ? It simply becomes a place for complain and not for discussion.
  
  so you expect everbody who agree with yuu_kajima to post the those who disagree to keep quiet ?
  
  i demand an apology for calling me a licker. I do not like to flame you, hence will like to end it if you apologise.
  
  [This message has been edited by LittleMan Supporter (edited 10 April 2000).]
• Illegal Operation

  10 Apr 00, 10:16

  I hereby apologize because you lick.
• LittleMan Supporter

  10 Apr 00, 15:08

  Originally posted by Illegal Operation:

  I hereby apologize because you lick.

  hahaha, then you better not support anybody in your life, not even your parents, otherwise you'll be f***** and m***** lickers too.
  
  dun be jealous IO, maybe someone will be named Illegal Operation Licker when you quit this forum, perhaps you can beg your fren to do it or perhaps ask your pet dog to do it.
  
  you bear grudge against LittleMan ? I have seen how you are crashed in Chit-Chat by him.
  
  to the rest of the forumites : guys, i took a step back on IO but see how sincere he is, he started it, not me.
  
  [This message has been edited by LittleMan Supporter (edited 10 April 2000).]
• Belittled

  14 Apr 00, 03:38

  Here's an abstract from the book "The Diary of a Young Girl -- Anne Frank".
  
  Anne Frank is a Jew who had gone into hiding in Amsterdam during WWII and the holocaust. During her hiding, she wrote this book (in fact it is her personal diary).
  
  This is what she wrote :
  
  "As you can no doubt imagine, we often say in despair, 'What's the point of war ? Why, oh, why can't people live together peacefully ? Why all these destruction ?'
  
  "The question is understandable, but up to now no one has come up with a satisfactory answer. Why is England manufacturing bigger and better airplanes and bombs and at the same time churning out new houses for reconstruction? Why are millions spent on war each day, while not a penny is available for medical science, artists or the poor? Why do people have to starve when mountains of food are rotting away in other parts of the world ? Oh, why are people so crazy ?
  
  "I don't believe the war is simply the work of politicians and capitalists. Oh no, the common man is every bit as guilty; otherwise, people and nations would have rebelled long ago! There's a destructive urge in people, the urge to rage, murder and kill. And until all of humanity, without exception, undergoes a metamorphosis, wars will continue to be waged, and everything that has been carefuly built up, cultivated and grown will be cut down and destroyed, only to start all over again!"
  
  She wrote this book when she was merely 14.
  
  ------------------
  "Life is about making choices. How good is your life depends on how well you make your choices" --- Belittled.