"More foreign than local undergraduates"
-
By Liew Hanqing
August 25, 2005
THERE could be more foreign students than Singaporeans taking some engineering and science courses at the National University of Singapore.
Students tell The New Paper that this is particularly true in electrical and computer engineering, with local students forming less than a quarter of the class sometimes.
For instance, out of the 48 students in one industrial and systems engineering class, only 10 are Singaporeans, they said.
As many as 31 are from China, and seven are from other countries.
When asked for the details, the university said 20 per cent of its entire student body is international.
'International students are not evenly distributed across all faculties,' its spokesman said.
'Faculties such as engineering and computing may have a higher proportion of foreign students depending on foreign student interest in such courses.'
In going international, NUS has gone into partnerships with seven universities worldwide - including big names like Peking University, Australian National University, UC Berkeley and Yale.
This means there will be more exchange programmes and more collaborative research.
More competition too, as foreign students flock to our shores.
And the locals seem to be feeling the heat. One 23-year-old computer engineering student said foreigners made up about two-thirds of his class.
Three other students who are doing computer engineering confirmed that the majority of students taking the course are foreigners, mostly from China.
NUS would not comment on this figure.
Fourth-year environmental engineering student Audrey Huang, 22, said: 'With more foreign students, local students aren't given enough space to develop.
'Maybe the competitive local students would like being spurred on by these foreign intellectuals, but personally, as a normal student, it gives me excessive pressure.'
Second-year computer engineering student Chen Kaiwei, 22, felt that admitting foreigners would be meaningful only if more interaction between them and the locals was encouraged.
'Local students don't mix with the foreigners, so they don't learn anything from them,' he said.
'The only effect, then, is the intensive competition.'
But that is the key to success, the NUS administration believes.
The NUS spokesman said: 'We impose a highly competitive selection criteria for international students, more so than we would for local students.
'This is to ensure that our international students are among the most talented, and that they are truly deserving of a place in NUS.'
Some local students are taking the competition in their stride.
'There's no running away from competition,' said second-year mechanical engineering student Zeng Xian Hong, 22.
'If we don't meet foreign competitors in school, we'll meet them in the working world.
'There's no difference.'
But will this make an NUS education less accessible for local applicants?
NUS, Nanyang Technological University and Singapore Management University now have separate admission systems, the spokesman said.
'There are, therefore, sufficient places and a variety of courses - no deserving local students will be turned away.'
For reference:
1. NUS International Students Fees Info
http://www.nus.edu.sg/registrar/undergraduate/fees.htm
2. NTU International Students Fees Info
http://www.ntu.edu.sg/OAS/Fees/tuit...s+ay2005-06.htm -
If a singaporean goes overseas to get his cert, does he count as foreign?
-
That is Globalization loh... back in 1997 when I was doing my basic degree course in NTU, already we faced lots of pressure from our Indian and China scholars; their population in my cohort was about 10%, not to mention that there were still a sizable malaysian in my class.
Later, by 1998, there were more and more Indon(20%), malaysian(20%), china (8%) and indian(3%) nationals in my junior batch, they were accountable for about 50% of the batch.
I could not but wonder where the hell were all the sinagporean students or my former poly classmates. -
Are you one?Originally posted by ditzy:If a singaporean goes overseas to get his cert, does he count as foreign? -
wait til u come NTU see....EEE is totally taken over by Ah Tiongs and Gek Lengs....MAE and CEE still local dominated....heng ah !
-
One more thing,
A kind reminder to all those young rich singaporean kids who are still dreaming in their classes. You are now enjoying the hard labours of ur parents, but they cannot provide you forever. If u dun work hard and smart, China Kids & Indian Kids are very happy to replace your seat in the NUS / NTU LTs. Even if your dad is rich enough to send u overseas, u will still face the challenges from them when u work outside or even in your dad's own company. Just look at the dear prices that a lot of older generation singaporean paid when we looked down on the mainland chinese during the Suzhuo investment era in 1980s-1990s. -
manufacturing shift to china
IT job outsource to india
study engineering must go there work liao -
yup....but i hate Gek Lengs and most Ah Tiongs leh....cos one only know how to booze while the other dun bath one....Originally posted by boy in blues:manufacturing shift to china
IT job outsource to india
study engineering must go there work liao -
the foreign students are on scholarships or government-subsided students? knn, i pay taxes for these people to study & take my place, my brothers' n sisters' places, my sons' n daughters' places.........etc
-
Those not under gov scholarships are subsidized like any Singaporean with gov tution grant. I.e. the subsidized ones pay nearly the same amount of tution fees in poly and uni as your Singaporean citizen.Originally posted by taurian:the foreign students are on scholarships or government-subsided students? knn, i pay taxes for these people to study & take my place, my brothers' n sisters' places, my sons' n daughters' places.........etc
Where does the subidization money come from? From you and me!
You are right. These foreign students are bonded to work in singapore for 2 or 3 years after grad. They will compete directly with the locals for jobs! I don't see any real benefit in doing this. Will they pay enough taxes or spend enough in Singapore for the gov to earn back the subsidized money? Perhaps the gov is thinking that these foreign students will return as tourists. But who in the right mind, after spending 3 years in Singapore will want to come back here for touring?
In the end, who are the worse suckers?
We are!
Pay foreigners to come here to study and steal our own jobs! -
Right here in front of our face, we see job, education priorities and privileges given to foreigners and the local squeezed. If this is the future we have arrived at, I think newly weds should think hard how life will be like here for their children when it's their turn to enter U and find a job here.
-
this was told to my friend who is a teacher in one of the top girls' schools by her principal :
it costs the singapore gahment more than S$38000 to educate a secondary school student, taking into account the costs of building the school (A, notice how grand all new school buildings are now!), staff salary, equipment & fixtures, ....etc.
foreign students pay S$147 a month school fees, many here on free education, free boarding (stay in multi-million dollars hostels, easily 200 foreign students per gahment-owned hostels hah!), free textbooks, free return air-tickets & got allowance every month. got free medical check-ups & dental care at Health Promotion Board.
the foreign mothers dump their kids in schools then find money, find honey. my teacher friends all so fed-up cos must stay back a few days per week to give extra lessons to these parasites who are very overage & poor in english. got 11 yr-old study primary 2, 15 year-old study primary 6, 16 yr-old in sec 2 in top ten school....etc. f*** you call these foreign talents????
the gahment give baby bonus & top up 1 for 1, some singaporean kow-tow & happy oredi. foreigners in singapore get a better deal than locals here!
singaporeans are marginalised, shortchanged, bullied.... in their own country. -
Originally posted by taurian:
govt want to train local FT
this was told to my friend who is a teacher in one of the top girls' schools by her principal :
it costs the singapore gahment more than [b]S$38000 to educate a secondary school student, taking into account the costs of building the school (A, notice how grand all new school buildings are now!), staff salary, equipment & fixtures, ....etc.
foreign students pay S$147 a month school fees, many here on free education, free boarding (stay in multi-million dollars hostels, easily 200 foreign students per gahment-owned hostels hah!), free textbooks, free return air-tickets & got allowance every month. got free medical check-ups & dental care at Health Promotion Board.
the foreign mothers dump their kids in schools then find money, find honey. my teacher friends all so fed-up cos must stay back a few days per week to give extra lessons to these parasites who are very overage & poor in english. got 11 yr-old study primary 2, 15 year-old study primary 6, 16 yr-old in sec 2 in top ten school....etc. f*** you call these foreign talents????
the gahment give baby bonus & top up 1 for 1, some singaporean kow-tow & happy oredi. foreigners in singapore get a better deal than locals here!
singaporeans are marginalised, shortchanged, bullied.... in their own country.
[/b]
I knew some PRC classmates and asked how they fork out for their NUS studies here - it cost more than 100K with out govt support. They blatantly told me SG invited them over and they are not even able to get into their own U in China. They said SG paid for their entire school fees - every single cent and gave them school allowance of 3K every month for rental and spending cash. my PRC classmates still think NUS cannot compare to their PRC U but they make do. In addition, they are also not bonded to work in SG at all... So I realised all our tax dollars is going towards paying all these activities that the govt "justify" as country building.
When local people cannot afford to go Sec/PreU/Poly/Uni and govt tell us go eat sh!t and work as blue collar and don't question their policy. Nice! -
I help a friend's son apply for financial help from his school, wah lao! so le che! father is hawker assistance - no CPF, mother is cleaner, want tis want tat. they are singaporeans, born here not migrants!
the mps say until so easy to apply for financial assistance. very le che wan! in the end i approached my church n my other friend approach his temple.
singaporeans can only help themselves. our taxes are to help our neighbours improve n then kill us! -
gahment giving scholarships worth tens of thousand to foreigners to attend our top Uni & top ten schools.
For our world class education, any secondary school in singapore is better than their schools in their countries. gahment should give foreign scholars schools which are out of the top 30.
it is really difficult for a commoner singaporean to get into a top ten school by merit. -
Not so much lah.Originally posted by taurian:gahment giving scholarships worth tens of thousand to foreigners to attend our top Uni & top ten schools.
For our world class education, any secondary school in singapore is better than their schools in their countries. gahment should give foreign scholars schools which are out of the top 30.
it is really difficult for a commoner singaporean to get into a top ten school by merit.
Singapore gov gives out 350 scholarships to mainlanders this year. -
Singapore also offered scholarships to Hong Kongers!
http://www.sfaa.gov.hk/eng/scholar/content11.htm
Brief History and Aim
Since 1970, the Singapore Government has been awarding scholarships to Hong Kong students as a gesture of good will. The scholarships are tenable in reputable primary, secondary schools and junior colleges in Singapore.
Eligibility Criteria
Students must be Hong Kong permanent residents.
a Primary Special/Merit Awards: Primary 1 to Primary 5 students
b Secondary 1 Scholarships: Primary 6/Secondary 1 students not exceeding 14 years of age at the time of admission into Secondary 1
c Secondary 2 Scholarships: Secondary 1/Secondary 2 students not exceeding 15 years of age at the time of admission into Secondary 2
d Secondary 3 Scholarships: Secondary 2/Secondary 3 students not exceeding 16 years of age at the time of admission into Secondary 3
e Pre-university Scholarships: Secondary 5 students not exceeding 18 years of age at the time of admission into Pre-university 1
Value of Awards ( 2003/04 Figures )
For Primary Awards
* A Special Award of S$2000 ( " HK$9000 ) per annum or a Merit Award of S$1000 ( " HK$4500 )
* Exemption of school fees
* One-month Language Immersion Course conducted at the Singapore International School in HK
For Secondary and Pre-University Scholarships
* Secondary: Allowance of S$2,200 p.a ( "HK$9900 ) with hostel accommodation, Pre-University: Allowance of S$2,400 p.a ( "HK$11000 ) with hostel accommodation
* Exemption of school fees
* S$200 ("HK$900) settling allowance
* Return economy air passage at the start and end of the course
* 24-hour accident and insurance cover
* Free Intensive English course from Oct- Dec 2003
There is no bond attached to the scholarship -
The issue is not about competition. The issue is why is the govt importing every tom, dick or harry foreigner to Singapore at the expense of locals?
90% of those places could have gone to Singaporeans, who cant afford to go overseas- and the fact that these foreigners actually pay less as compared to local is also insulting. Local taxpayers, in reality, are actually paying the govt to allow foreigners to take over their son's place in one of the three Unis locally.
So what gives? These foreigners, at least 85%, will not become citizens. They will go back because they know they will get very little once they become S'poreans. They also will not allow their kids to do NS if they settle over here.
These foreigners are actually smart- they can come here and spend less money in education as compared to locals(and also education in the US, Oz and Europe) and can use the blue IC to apply for a work permit in the West or use it as an asset if they go back home.
But who will be the losers? S'poreans. Why? We pay money, so we lose money. And then the money won't come back to us, because our children cannot get into Uni. And then these foreigners will leave once they get their degree. We are in an disadvantage from day one.
This flexible, open-door policy imposed by the PAP will kill off Singapore talent, not cultivate it. Even if we don't want Singapore to be North Korea, we also know such an liberal open policy will be bad for us all. We need to be like Australia or US..foreigners are welcomed yes, but only the good ones- and not at the expense of those who are born locally. -
Ok here's my S$0.02....
I feel that though we do need SOME foreign talent, I feel that the government is overdoing it. Yes, we really do need talented foreigners to come work in Singapore, but the way I see it, all that's happening here is that much of these foreign students are simply taking our hard-earned taxes to come here and enjoy highly-subsidised education.
I'm not trying to be xenophobic here. I'm not trying to say that we should close all of our doors to foreign students and provide free university education for all locals. But what really pains me is that my taxes are paying for them to compete against me academically on campus, and for limited jobs in the workforce. Some competition is healthy and fine, but this is too much.
What pains me even more is that there are Singaporeans who are worthy of a university education but can't have it due to their lack of finances. I would rather that my taxes help these less-privileged Singaporeans than foreign students who may very well be able to afford to pay full fare.
Yeah, my critics can say that there are plenty of financial assistance schemes, and I'm not disputing that. Well, try telling that to less-priviledged students who get saddled with huge study loan debts after they graduate.
I'm facing a total of about $15 000 in debts after I graduate.
-
i mean tens of thousand singapore dollars worth of scholarships to foreign students not only from china, but all asean countries. and not only tertiary education but for secondary & JC as well.Originally posted by Cindyfeh:Not so much lah.
Singapore gov gives out 350 scholarships to mainlanders this year.
where did the 350 come from? where can we get such info? -
More foreigners better (but sorry, not those frm PRC pls)!
Fellow Sporeans wake up!
It's a fact that most Sporeans hates/shuns engineering-related courses!
Most Sporeans prefer biz/econs/acc!
Blame urselves for not studying hard & always act hao-lian/dao to foreigners! -
i'm very sure what you said is contrary to the current situation..singaporeans just love going for engineering stuff because their mothers say engineering will give you "rice to eat"Originally posted by vindicated:More foreigners better (but sorry, not those frm PRC pls)!
Fellow Sporeans wake up!
It's a fact that most Sporeans hates/shuns engineering-related courses!
Most Sporeans prefer biz/econs/acc!
Blame urselves for not studying hard & always act hao-lian/dao to foreigners! -
WE NEED TO PRACTISE GREATER QUALITY CONTROL.
I do not want to see PRC students who cannot speak proper English step into a class where my mates with C6 or C5 in GP but being much more fluent in written and spoken English cannot get in.
There are no two ways about it.Paying these leeches 100k to come here and letting slag us off is conduct unbecoming of any leadership or policymaker.
Thank GOD I'm in Arts, where these fellows have not a single iota of interest, or should I say intellectual and emotional maturity to go through the intricacies of metafiction etc.. -
Not only the students BUT the dammn lecturers too!
Those from the india side still quite ok, their english is still comprehendable but those from china. WAH LAU EH! how the school choose them one?
In NTU, they make sure ur GP can make it and they make poly students take a english proficieny test. And WTF are they doing with the lecuters?
They should do this with the lecturers also, a Teaching ORAL proficinecy test. !#@$#@$ -
seriously.. when can we see some FT as our MP?? best is PM lah
