Homosexuality is Against Nature
-
Comparing 2 Christian's "ministries" side by side.. While oursafehaven has always been transparent with their operations, to the point of encouraging those who are ashamed to be gays to turn to Choices; Choices has nothing to show to date.. What do they do? How do they "cure" homosexuals?
http://www.choices.org.sg/index.html
http://www.oursafehaven.com/ -
I wouldn't even consider oursafehaven to be a Christian ministry when they do not recognize the authority of the inerrant word of God. But that's a theological debate..Originally posted by earthlings73:Comparing 2 Christian's "ministries" side by side.. While oursafehaven has always been transparent with their operations, to the point of encouraging those who are ashamed to be gays to turn to Choices; Choices has nothing to show to date.. What do they do? How do they "cure" homosexuals?
http://www.choices.org.sg/index.html
http://www.oursafehaven.com/
I am no Christian zealot myself and would have been quite happy to let homosexuals do what they must do behind closed doors. But this constant attack upon Christian beliefs have turned even moderates like myself against giving any ground to gays in Singapore.
We will never agree on this issue. Christians who consider the Bible to have the last word on this issue will never condone homosexuality. Any attempt to change our mind by attacking our faith will result in greater opposition against homosexuals.
I have no issue with gays being employed in various positions within reason. Within reason because I will not allow homosexuals to teach my children that homosexuality is natural. It is against my religious belief and I reserve the right to teach my children what I consider to be moral and godly.
Further discussion on this issue is quite pointless. The gay community does not view this as a moral issue but an innate, immutable trait. Therefore their agenda is to convince society that homosexuality is not immoral as the Bible teaches, but that message directly contradicts the religious teachings of Christians, Jews and Muslims alike.
Whilst some Christians like myself would have been content to let them hold to whatever views they want amongst themselves, homosexuals have gone on the offensive and attacked my religious values. In so doing they have forced me to see the danger they pose to my children, who could be drawn to the amoral, anti-Christian diatribe of the libertines.
As long as homosexuals continue this line of argument there can never be common ground with Christians and Muslims in our society. Not unless people abandon the Word of God and adopt an ever-changing set of quasi-Christian doctrines that homosexuals can edit to suit their purpose. God forbid. -
Oxford Mushroom: I would like you to explain the phenomenon whereby female tortoises hump one another. Same thing with rams mating with rams.
-
first you say sex is a wilful act, then u say its instinct..aren't you contradicting yourself?Originally posted by PRP:As i said before, one can feel attracted by man or woman but engaging in sexual activities are wilful acts.
Hetero is nature instinct but homo is something gone wrong with sex.
-
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
The liberal thinking of the Western World seems to have allowed the HOMOSEXUAL Community more space at the expense of the moral values of their societies - European Community and the USA.
I wouldn't even consider oursafehaven to be a Christian ministry when they do not recognize the authority of the inerrant word of God. But that's a theological debate..
I am no Christian zealot myself and would have been quite happy to let homosexuals do what they must do behind closed doors. But this constant attack upon Christian beliefs have turned even moderates like myself against giving any ground to gays in Singapore.
We will never agree on this issue. Christians who consider the Bible to have the last word on this issue will never condone homosexuality. Any attempt to change our mind by attacking our faith will result in greater opposition against homosexuals.
I have no issue with gays being employed in various positions within reason. Within reason because I will not allow homosexuals to teach my children that homosexuality is natural. It is against my religious belief and I reserve the right to teach my children what I consider to be moral and godly.
Further discussion on this issue is quite pointless. The gay community does not view this as a moral issue but an innate, immutable trait. Therefore their agenda is to convince society that homosexuality is not immoral as the Bible teaches, but that message directly contradicts the religious teachings of Christians, Jews and Muslims alike.
Whilst some Christians like myself would have been content to let them hold to whatever views they want amongst themselves, homosexuals have gone on the offensive and attacked my religious values. In so doing they have forced me to see the danger they pose to my children, who could be drawn to the amoral, anti-Christian diatribe of the libertines.
As long as homosexuals continue this line of argument there can never be common ground with Christians and Muslims in our society. Not unless people abandon the Word of God and adopt an ever-changing set of quasi-Christian doctrines that homosexuals can edit to suit their purpose. God forbid.
The aggressiveness in which the HOMOSEXUAL Community has overwhelmed the silent majority of most Western Population, have led to the storming of the various POLITCAL BASTIONS that guarded the values of each of the many Communities in the EU and the USA.
The weakest point of Western Societies is the various Parliaments, where politicians are subject to pressures from all directions of their societies, and who are only too prepared to accomodate others to keep their public office.
The seeming tolerance of an emerging high profiled and aggressive assertion of the HOMOSEXUAL Community in these Western Socieites was a result of successful Politicians gaining Public Office, and who themselves have HOMOSEXUAL leanings or strongly influenced by the values of the HOMOSEXUAL Community.
The Governments of China and India - two of Asia's most populous countries - have little choice but to fight the epidemic spread of AIDS / HIV problems, by an inovative attempt to take HOMOSEXUALISM out from the dark corners.
This is by no means an endorsement that will lead to the ever HOMOSEXUAL hopeful goals of SAME-SEX Marriages, leading to Child Adoption in such HOMOSEXUAL UNION.
In the remaining Asian countries - from Korea, Japan, Taiwan, ASEAN countries, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh - tolerance from the various societies have allowed the HOMOSEXUAL Community to lead their own lives with the respective Penal Codes and Legislations that still remain unchanged for the governance of NORMAL SOCIETIES.
This debate will continue as to whether HOMOSEXUALISM is a mental sickness, or a behaviorial disorder, or a psychological trait that one is born with; however, one thing remain very clear - there is NO GENETIC ATTRIBUTE in HOMOSEXUALISM that will allow this characteristic to be passed on from generation to generation.
The question as to how HOMOSEXUALISM come about will remain an imposing in our societies for generations to come - until some bio-medical research find its source or cause.
While society can accomodate those who are HOMOSEXUALLY inclined, it must also strongly resist any attempts to allow societal values and common sense to be bent to accomodate and accept HOMOSEXUAL VALUES in NORMAL SOCIETY. -
Originally posted by vito_corleone:
If one decide to have sex with any one person - is it not a wilful act ?
first you say sex is a wilful act, then u say its instinct..aren't you contradicting yourself?
If one decide to copulate using NORMAL SEXUAL ORGANS - is it not instinctive ?
A child cries when hungry - is it not instinctive ?
A child feeds when hungry - is it not wilful ? -
Originally posted by iveco:
What is the size of the brain of tortoises and rams ?
Oxford Mushroom: I would like you to explain the phenomenon whereby female tortoises hump one another. Same thing with rams mating with rams.
What is the depth of the emotional and psychological complexities of the tortoises and the rams ?
Can the behaviour of MAN be compared with the sub-species ?
Does a HUMAN need to justify one's actions by the behaviour and actions of the sub-species ? -
Originally posted by earthlings73:
Is it not true that everything remain as a Choice ?
Comparing 2 Christian's "ministries" side by side.. While oursafehaven has always been transparent with their operations, to the point of encouraging those who are ashamed to be gays to turn to Choices; Choices has nothing to show to date.. What do they do? How do they "cure" homosexuals?
http://www.choices.org.sg/index.html
http://www.oursafehaven.com/
The success of one overcoming addiction will depend on one's choice and conviction in overcoming one's addiction problem.
No program can succeed unless the cynical and skepticism is first removed, and WHOLE HEARTED and SINCERE effort is made to be CONVINCED and remain CONVICTED in one's DESIRE TO CHANGE. -
Originally posted by earthlings73:
When an association has been politicized by the interest of any one particular group, at the expense of its original goals, it is already by itself discredited.
Okay.. One fellow resigned.. So now we have 131,999 in the association! hey wait, we are not even talking about the same association!
APA = American Psychological Association
You are bound to come across others who do not like APA too.. But then, are you going to discredit an association because of one disgruntled voice?
Does it take more then one to discredit the association ?
LKY has discredited the Singapore Law Society, and started the rival Academy of Law, where do you think the status of the Singapore Law Society stands now ? -
Reply posted by earthlings73:
Ah.. Crappy response for crappy accusations..
Quote from post by pikamaster:
You know sth ppl,
I find this discussion getting more and more crappy!! Both sides in this argument are extremely biased, and none of the evidence provided provides a satisfactory justification for either side...
the (snapped) pikamaster To be honest, just tired of spending 4-5 hours reading and responding to accusations.. With the other party twisting words ard just to show that he's right..
---------------------------------------------------------------
Reply posted by earthlings73:
Don't be fooled by the professional title..
Quote from post by Atobe:
The Health Risks of Gay Sex
JOHN R. DIGGS, JR. M.D. These articles are still backed by religion, just go see the website..
Ah.. To make this post less crappy.. Do you guys know what's the big killer for most of these so-called "gays engaged in more risky sexual behaviours?" studies? The sampling issue.. Gays and straights cannot be differentiated on the surface appearance.. Hence, how do the studies get their sample from? Most likely from gay bars, saunas, etc..
There's such a sub-culture within the gay comm (and a rather vibrant one but not unique to gays though) but it does not mean that these people represent all gays in the population.. If you are going to find someone who's more risky in sex to begin with, you will of course come up with the conclusion that gays practice more risky sex..
In short, there are many gays who do not patronise gay bars, saunas etc.. Are they included in such studies? No! See the bias in these studies already?
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Crappy response ? "
"With the other party twisting words ard just to show that he's right ? "
From the two replies posted by some earthlings, the crappy response given has certainly punctured the air out of any more attempts by Homosexuals who claim to be earthlings ?
Is this the best an earthling can do - deriding the efforts of this Dr JOHN R. DIGGS, JR. M.D on a mere sampling issue - based on contorted Homosexual readings of this posted article ?
"Gays and straights cannot be differentiated on the surface appearance.. Hence, how do the studies get their sample from? Most likely from gay bars, saunas, etc.. "
How does one come to this conclusionwhen reading from the article that was posted :
The Health Risks of Gay Sex
JOHN R. DIGGS, JR. M.D.
How were the words printed by Dr John R. Diggs, Jr become so cleverly twisted to a discrediting conclusion that his surveys are from
" gay bars, saunas, etc... " ?
When an article posted by Dr Paul Cameron was offered, some earthling shot it with a derisive attempt by the bias APA towards this eminent doctor, who simply did not agree with the bias position taken by the APA.
Should we not be surprised that Dr John R. Diggs had also written an article that is quite similar to that of Dr Paul Cameron ?
Two eminent doctors both having the same views, how many more are there that have not posted their views on the WWW ?
Does a religious site carrying the work of a Professional discredit the medical views of that Professional ?
This is not the usual desparate crap from normal earthlings.... but HOMOSEXUALS disguised as earthlings in the aggressive defense of HOMOSEXUALS.
"To be honest, just tired of spending 4-5 hours reading and responding to accusations.. " and still making further useless and ardous attempts to defend the unattainable goals for HOMOSEXUALS in Singapore ? -
haha... the Bible says, thou shalt remove the plank from thine own eye before removing the splinter from your enemy's...Originally posted by earthlings73:Ah.. Crappy response for crappy accusations.. To be honest, just tired of spending 4-5 hours reading and responding to accusations.. With the other party twisting words ard just to show that he's right..
How justified do you think your points raised so far really are? No, I don't think that the "religious zealots'" points are very justified either, but for me it suffices to say that neither you ( and ur other unique pals) nor them have really proved your respective cases. And so, after 7 forum pages, there is still no firm conclusion on ANY aspect of the homosexual issue...
Gosh! even the debate on the Death Penalty was more conclusive than this!!
the pikamaster (who is shaking his head)
P.S.: If I were a mod, I would close this thread on the ground that its quality is beginning to degenerate. In my opinion, another 2-4 pages and a flaming war will begin...
I advise all to stop participating in this thread now... -
1) Hey, that's not even the intention of my post.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:I wouldn't even consider oursafehaven to be a Christian ministry when they do not recognize the authority of the inerrant word of God. But that's a theological debate..
I am no Christian zealot myself and would have been quite happy to let homosexuals do what they must do behind closed doors. But this constant attack upon Christian beliefs have turned even moderates like myself against giving any ground to gays in Singapore.
We will never agree on this issue. Christians who consider the Bible to have the last word on this issue will never condone homosexuality. Any attempt to change our mind by attacking our faith will result in greater opposition against homosexuals.
I have no issue with gays being employed in various positions within reason. Within reason because I will not allow homosexuals to teach my children that homosexuality is natural. It is against my religious belief and I reserve the right to teach my children what I consider to be moral and godly.
Further discussion on this issue is quite pointless. The gay community does not view this as a moral issue but an innate, immutable trait. Therefore their agenda is to convince society that homosexuality is not immoral as the Bible teaches, but that message directly contradicts the religious teachings of Christians, Jews and Muslims alike.
Whilst some Christians like myself would have been content to let them hold to whatever views they want amongst themselves, homosexuals have gone on the offensive and attacked my religious values. In so doing they have forced me to see the danger they pose to my children, who could be drawn to the amoral, anti-Christian diatribe of the libertines.
As long as homosexuals continue this line of argument there can never be common ground with Christians and Muslims in our society. Not unless people abandon the Word of God and adopt an ever-changing set of quasi-Christian doctrines that homosexuals can edit to suit their purpose. God forbid. My only intention is to show that the assumption of "homosexuality can be cured" and it's easily available is only... An assumption. CHOICES is the only group I know that offer "cure" for homosexuality. But you need to be a religious zealot before you can "might" succeed (as can be seen in the other article I've posted about exodus).
2) Ah... Saying that safehaven is not a christian set-up and proceed to hint that I'm attacking your religion is err... circular isn't it? Didn't I just said in my earlier post about the local charter of Focus on the Family (a religious outfit)seem to be less right-wing, and hence Iveco shouldn't turn away from them so quickly... If you want to see more gay christians churches...
Catholics
http://www.dignityusa.org/
http://www.baywindows.com/media/paper328/news/2005/04/07/News/Gay-Catholics.React.To.Pope.John.Paul.Iis.Legacy-916336.shtml
http://www.gaychristians.org/
Methodists
http://www.umaffirm.org/
these are just some examples.. there are much much more.. The point is not all religious entities fall under the right-wing.. There are left-wing religious entities too.. esp the following
Universalists
http://www.uua.org/
Am I attacking Christians and Religions? Hell no.. -
Ah.. When I ask the previous thread to be closed, I did mention time and again that if people want to discuss theology issues, they should proceed to EH.. As for other non-religious related posting, they can go to the newly created forum.Originally posted by pikamaster:haha... the Bible says, thou shalt remove the plank from thine own eye before removing the splinter from your enemy's...
How justified do you think your points raised so far really are? No, I don't think that the "religious zealots'" points are very justified either, but for me it suffices to say that neither you ( and ur other unique pals) nor them have really proved your respective cases. And so, after 7 forum pages, there is still no firm conclusion on ANY aspect of the homosexual issue... Gosh! even the debate on the Death Penalty was more conclusive than this!!
the pikamaster (who is shaking his head)
P.S.: If I were a mod, I would close this thread on the ground that its quality is beginning to degenerate. In my opinion, another 2-4 pages and a flaming war will begin...
I advise all to stop participating in this thread now...
I admit that I didn't take time to address all the issues for a very simple reason.. I do not want to spend 4-5 hours a day in front of the computer to handle accusations.
I will be volunteering soon.. Those time can be better spent helping others rather than spending time here to address accusations..
I did pm one of the mod to close this current thread.. but he ignore my suggestion..
I even tried not to post anything in the thread until the flaming started..Did he close the topic as he would not talk about this topic in this forum, or did he find his position untenable in the manner that his position is being confronted - point by point ?
And now, I'm at fault because I defend those accusations being thrown at the gay community and the flames thrown towards me?
You were right in what you had stated when you opened this thread, earthling73 took a parting shot at my last response to his postings and decided to close the thread by not giving me a right to reply to his selective misquote from my response.
Is eathlings73 a 'gentleman' or a 'gentle man', or even a 'Man' at all ? -
Because we are genetically more similar to other animals than let's say a piece of rubber?Originally posted by Atobe:What is the size of the brain of tortoises and rams ?
What is the depth of the emotional and psychological complexities of the tortoises and the rams ?
Can the behaviour of MAN be compared with the sub-species ?
Does a HUMAN need to justify one's actions by the behaviour and actions of the sub-species ? -
Okay lah.. I will stop posting in this thread (until flames and insults return)..Originally posted by pikamaster:P.S.: If I were a mod, I would close this thread on the ground that its quality is beginning to degenerate. In my opinion, another 2-4 pages and a flaming war will begin...
I advise all to stop participating in this thread now...
Will concentrate on building the other forum.. To share information with other LBGT.. And to do my volunteering work..
However, you are always welcome to leave your comments and queries in our forum..
-
Originally posted by Atobe:
health risks also apply to straight sex. I guess u'll be becoming a monk then
[b]The Health Risks of Gay Sex
JOHN R. DIGGS, JR. M.D.
Executive Summary
Sexual relationships between members of the same sex expose gays, lesbians and bisexuals to extreme risks of Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STDs), physical injuries, mental disorders and even a shortened life span. There are five major distinctions between gay and heterosexual relationships, with specific medical consequences. They are:
Levels of Promiscuity
Prior to the AIDS epidemic, a 1978 study found that 75 percent of white, gay males claimed to have had more than 100 lifetime male sex partners: 15 percent claimed 100-249 sex partners; 17 percent claimed 250-499; 15 percent claimed 500- 999; and 28 percent claimed more than 1,000 lifetime male sex partners. Levels of promiscuity subsequently declined, but some observers are concerned that promiscuity is again approaching the levels of the 1970s. The medical consequence of this promiscuity is that gays have a greatly increased likelihood of contracting HIV/AIDS, syphilis and other STDs.
Similar extremes of promiscuity have not been documented among lesbians. However, an Australian study found that 93 percent of lesbians reported having had sex with men, and lesbians were 4.5 times more likely than heterosexual women to have had more than 50 lifetime male sex partners. Any degree of sexual promiscuity carries the risk of contracting STDs.
Physical Health
Common sexual practices among gay men lead to numerous STDs and physical injuries, some of which are virtually unknown in the heterosexual population. Lesbians are also at higher risk for STDs. In addition to diseases that may be transmitted during lesbian sex, a study at an Australian STD clinic found that lesbians were three to four times more likely than heterosexual women to have sex with men who were high-risk for HIV.
Mental Health
It is well established that there are high rates of psychiatric illnesses, including depression, drug abuse, and suicide attempts, among gays and lesbians. This is true even in the Netherlands, where gay, lesbian and bisexual (GLB) relationships are far more socially acceptable than in the U.S. Depression and drug abuse are strongly associated with risky sexual practices that lead to serious medical problems.
Life Span
The only epidemiological study to date on the life span of gay men concluded that gay and bisexual men lose up to 20 years of life expectancy.
Monogamy
Monogamy, meaning long-term sexual fidelity, is rare in GLB relationships, particularly among gay men. One study reported that 66 percent of gay couples reported sex outside the relationship within the first year, and nearly 90 percent if the relationship lasted five years.
Encouraging people to engage in risky sexual behavior undermines good health and can result in a shortened life span. Yet that is exactly what employers and governmental entities are doing when they grant GLB couples benefits or status that make GLB relationships appear more socially acceptable.
The Health Risks of Gay Sex
Introduction
Back in the early 1980s, while working at Beth Israel Hospital, I vividly remember seeing healthy young gay men dying of a mysterious disease that researchers only later identified as a sexually transmitted disease — AIDS. Over the years, I've seen many patients with that diagnosis die.
As a physician, it is my duty to assess behaviors for their impact on health and wellbeing. When something is beneficial, such as exercise, good nutrition, or adequate sleep, it is my duty to recommend it. Likewise, when something is harmful, such as smoking, overeating, alcohol or drug abuse, it is my duty to discourage it.
When sexual activity is practiced outside of marriage, the consequences can be quite serious. Without question, sexual promiscuity frequently spreads diseases, from trivial to serious to deadly. In fact, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that 65 million Americans have an incurable sexually transmitted disease (STD).1
There are differences between men and women in the consequences of same-sex activity. But most importantly, the consequences of homosexual activity are distinct from the consequences of heterosexual activity. As a physician, it is my duty to inform patients of the health risks of gay sex, and to discourage them from indulging in harmful behavior.
I. DIFFERENCES BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL AND HETEROSEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS
The current media portrayal of gay and lesbian relationships is that they are as healthy, stable and loving as heterosexual marriages — or even more so.2 Medical associations are promoting somewhat similar messages.3 Nevertheless, there are at least five major areas of differences between gay and heterosexual relationships, each with specific medical consequences. Those differences include:
A. Levels of promiscuity
B. Physical health
C. Mental health
D. Life span
E. Definition of "monogamy"
[/b] -
and u need not answer to all of them because u don't have an answer to them. no answer to all my previous accusations and evidence. what more need i say? u're definately losing the argument, and u need to depend on atobe to provide any evidence at all.Originally posted by PRP:Unlike u,i dare to state that my attitude is to discuss this topic rationally.
Iread your msg but i need not answer to all of them.
-
Anyway, I think ultimately we don't have to worry. Bigots like the ones we find here will slowly die out, and civilisation will flower even more magnificantly as we gain a newer level of social enlightenment, and the nethandrals of our current society will slowly become extinct. And contary to their expectations, the widespread acceptance of homosexuality will not cause mankind to become extinct. On the contary, people will have a stronger defination and understanding of their own sexuality earlier in their lives, and this will lead to relationships being stronger when both parties are fully aware of their own sexualities, and perhaps we'll see less of the tragedies and heartbreak of today when one partner in a relationship realises that he or she is gay. Social enlightenment must be pushed ahead in spite of all the bigotry trying to send us back into the dark ages. It is the creed of humanity.
-
Then you go be mod lor.....Originally posted by pikamaster:P.S.: If I were a mod, I would close this thread on the ground that its quality is beginning to degenerate. In my opinion, another 2-4 pages and a flaming war will begin...
I advise all to stop participating in this thread now...
For your Info Earthings and all...ESP PRP. I closed the previous thread on homosexuality and directed you all to the forum that Earthing set up. The previous time when the first homosexuality topic deviated to religious bashings, I closed it. However, you all wish to fall into a bait of a troll and continue to post.
And to Earthings, do you dare claim I never respond nicely to you the first time and redirect close your thread? And who was the one who petition me to allow him to open a new thread on homosexuality?
I am pretty sick and tired of this damn issue. If you wish to post on religious aspect, go EH. If you all wish to discuss objectively be my guest. However, esp to PRP, if I see anymore rubbish from you. I will make sure I close every thread you make, edit every post you write and make sure you get banned from this damn forum.
Hope you all get my drift.
The damn pissed off moderator who has to work for a living and not face only one thread 24/7 -
it depends on how you view it.Originally posted by Atobe:If one decide to have sex with any one person - is it not a wilful act ?
If one decide to copulate using NORMAL SEXUAL ORGANS - is it not instinctive ?
A child cries when hungry - is it not instinctive ?
A child feeds when hungry - is it not wilful ? -
Hi Greengoblin..Originally posted by greengoblin:For your Info Earthings and all...ESP PRP. I closed the previous thread on homosexuality and directed you all to the forum that Earthing set up. The previous time when the first homosexuality topic deviated to religious bashings, I closed it. However, you all wish to fall into a bait of a troll and continue to post.
And to Earthings, do you dare claim I never respond nicely to you the first time and redirect close your thread? And who was the one who petition me to allow him to open a new thread on homosexuality?
Just to clarify certain things..
1) You did help to close my thread. =) I thank you for that.
2) This thread has nothing to do with me leh.. I did suggest to you to close it too mah, since we have started a new forum.. But I did not get any reply.. So, I'm just stating a fact here mah..
3) I know your position now.. To be stucked in the middle.. Moderating is never an easy job.. On the one hand, to allow freedom of speech but on the other hand gotta control trolling behaviours.. And many times, the lines are pretty blurred depending on one's beliefs and values.. But do keep up the good work!
4) On my part, I will not respond to trolls from now.. However, if there are accusations on the gay comm with ill-constructed studies, I will still provide an alternative view, without responding to the trolls..
Good night everyone! -
Originally posted by earthlings73:
Are you not attacking the efforts of the Christians and Religions with your cynicism on their efforts to help those who intend to change from their HOMOSEXUAL ways ?
1) Hey, that's not even the intention of my post. My only intention is to show that the assumption of "homosexuality can be cured" and it's easily available is only... An assumption. CHOICES is the only group I know that offer "cure" for homosexuality. But you need to be a religious zealot before you can "might" succeed (as can be seen in the other article I've posted about exodus).
2) Ah... Saying that safehaven is not a christian set-up and proceed to hint that I'm attacking your religion is err... circular isn't it? Didn't I just said in my earlier post about the local charter of Focus on the Family (a religious outfit)seem to be less right-wing, and hence Iveco shouldn't turn away from them so quickly... If you want to see more gay christians churches...
Catholics
http://www.dignityusa.org/
http://www.baywindows.com/media/paper328/news/2005/04/07/News/Gay-Catholics.React.To.Pope.John.Paul.Iis.Legacy-916336.shtml
http://www.gaychristians.org/
Methodists
http://www.umaffirm.org/
these are just some examples.. there are much much more.. The point is not all religious entities fall under the right-wing.. There are left-wing religious entities too.. esp the following
Universalists
http://www.uua.org/
Am I attacking Christians and Religions? Hell no..
How did you come to a conclusive statement - "But you need to be a religious zealot before you can "might" succeed..... " ?
Are you not making things up to support your own preferred position by distorting and deriding the efforts of such groups ?
Surely the criterion from the various religious groups do not require anyone from the HOMOSEXUAL community to believe in their religion - let alone to be a zealous convert - before offering help to assist the HOMOSEXUAL to change ? -
Originally posted by earthlings73:
Ah.. When I ask the previous thread to be closed, I did mention time and again that if people want to discuss theology issues, they should proceed to EH.. As for other non-religious related posting, they can go to the newly created forum.
Quoted from post by pikamaster:
haha... the Bible says, thou shalt remove the plank from thine own eye before removing the splinter from your enemy's...
How justified do you think your points raised so far really are? No, I don't think that the "religious zealots'" points are very justified either, but for me it suffices to say that neither you ( and ur other unique pals) nor them have really proved your respective cases. And so, after 7 forum pages, there is still no firm conclusion on ANY aspect of the homosexual issue... Gosh! even the debate on the Death Penalty was more conclusive than this!!
the pikamaster (who is shaking his head)
P.S.: If I were a mod, I would close this thread on the ground that its quality is beginning to degenerate. In my opinion, another 2-4 pages and a flaming war will begin...
I advise all to stop participating in this thread now...
I admit that I didn't take time to address all the issues for a very simple reason.. I do not want to spend 4-5 hours a day in front of the computer to handle accusations. I will be volunteering soon.. Those time can be better spent helping others rather than spending time here to address accusations..
I did pm one of the mod to close this current thread.. but he ignore my suggestion..
I even tried not to post anything in the thread until the flaming started..Did he close the topic as he would not talk about this topic in this forum, or did he find his position untenable in the manner that his position is being confronted - point by point ?
And now, I'm at fault because I defend those accusations being thrown at the gay community and the flames thrown towards me?
You were right in what you had stated when you opened this thread, earthling73 took a parting shot at my last response to his postings and decided to close the thread by not giving me a right to reply to his selective misquote from my response.
Is eathlings73 a 'gentleman' or a 'gentle man', or even a 'Man' at all ?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Accusations ? What Accusations ?
Did anyone or any reference materials posted - accused any HOMOSEXUALS of anything other then confirming the errors of the HOMOSEXUAL WAYS, and your CYNICISM and PERCEIVED DISCRIMINATIONS - which you had claimed in your closed thread in this Speaker's Corner ?
Flame ? Where is the 'fire' ? Where is the 'smoke' ?
You have not even been lighted up yet, and you claim to have been flamed. -
Originally posted by earthlings73:
From your statement, it is quite clear that HOMOSEXUALS need to justify their unique sexual behaviours from the sexual preferences of the sub-species.
Quoted from post by Atobe:
What is the size of the brain of tortoises and rams ?
What is the depth of the emotional and psychological complexities of the tortoises and the rams ?
Can the behaviour of MAN be compared with the sub-species ?
Does a HUMAN need to justify one's actions by the behaviour and actions of the sub-species ?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Because we are genetically more similar to other animals than let's say a piece of rubber?
MAN is related to the APE, yet the evolution of the HOMOSAPIEN species has superceded the APE by more than light years.
Unfortunately, the evolution of the HOMOSEXUAL species seems to be unlike most HOMOSAPIENS, as the evolution of the HOMOSEXUAL remains locked in the stage of the APES - with a thought process that need to justify their sub-species behaviour with other species of similar evolutionary stage.
Even a piece of rubber has moved on to more sophisticated technological levels, and with new applications that help to prevent the spread of AIDS/HIV.
What can we say of the sub-species from which AID/HIV had probably began ? -
Originally posted by HENG@:
It is unfortunate that you did not continue with the quote of the entire posted referenced article, otherwise you will have found the answer in the continuing sections of this article.
Quote from post by Atobe:
[b]The Health Risks of Gay Sex
JOHN R. DIGGS, JR. M.D.
Executive Summary
Sexual relationships between members of the same sex expose gays, lesbians and bisexuals to extreme risks of Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STDs), physical injuries, mental disorders and even a shortened life span. There are five major distinctions between gay and heterosexual relationships, with specific medical consequences. They are:
Levels of Promiscuity
Prior to the AIDS epidemic, a 1978 study found that 75 percent of white, gay males claimed to have had more than 100 lifetime male sex partners: 15 percent claimed 100-249 sex partners; 17 percent claimed 250-499; 15 percent claimed 500- 999; and 28 percent claimed more than 1,000 lifetime male sex partners. Levels of promiscuity subsequently declined, but some observers are concerned that promiscuity is again approaching the levels of the 1970s. The medical consequence of this promiscuity is that gays have a greatly increased likelihood of contracting HIV/AIDS, syphilis and other STDs.
Similar extremes of promiscuity have not been documented among lesbians. However, an Australian study found that 93 percent of lesbians reported having had sex with men, and lesbians were 4.5 times more likely than heterosexual women to have had more than 50 lifetime male sex partners. Any degree of sexual promiscuity carries the risk of contracting STDs.
Physical Health
Common sexual practices among gay men lead to numerous STDs and physical injuries, some of which are virtually unknown in the heterosexual population. Lesbians are also at higher risk for STDs. In addition to diseases that may be transmitted during lesbian sex, a study at an Australian STD clinic found that lesbians were three to four times more likely than heterosexual women to have sex with men who were high-risk for HIV.
Mental Health
It is well established that there are high rates of psychiatric illnesses, including depression, drug abuse, and suicide attempts, among gays and lesbians. This is true even in the Netherlands, where gay, lesbian and bisexual (GLB) relationships are far more socially acceptable than in the U.S. Depression and drug abuse are strongly associated with risky sexual practices that lead to serious medical problems.
Life Span
The only epidemiological study to date on the life span of gay men concluded that gay and bisexual men lose up to 20 years of life expectancy.
Monogamy
Monogamy, meaning long-term sexual fidelity, is rare in GLB relationships, particularly among gay men. One study reported that 66 percent of gay couples reported sex outside the relationship within the first year, and nearly 90 percent if the relationship lasted five years.
Encouraging people to engage in risky sexual behavior undermines good health and can result in a shortened life span. Yet that is exactly what employers and governmental entities are doing when they grant GLB couples benefits or status that make GLB relationships appear more socially acceptable.
The Health Risks of Gay Sex
Introduction
Back in the early 1980s, while working at Beth Israel Hospital, I vividly remember seeing healthy young gay men dying of a mysterious disease that researchers only later identified as a sexually transmitted disease — AIDS. Over the years, I've seen many patients with that diagnosis die.
As a physician, it is my duty to assess behaviors for their impact on health and wellbeing. When something is beneficial, such as exercise, good nutrition, or adequate sleep, it is my duty to recommend it. Likewise, when something is harmful, such as smoking, overeating, alcohol or drug abuse, it is my duty to discourage it.
When sexual activity is practiced outside of marriage, the consequences can be quite serious. Without question, sexual promiscuity frequently spreads diseases, from trivial to serious to deadly. In fact, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that 65 million Americans have an incurable sexually transmitted disease (STD).1
There are differences between men and women in the consequences of same-sex activity. But most importantly, the consequences of homosexual activity are distinct from the consequences of heterosexual activity. As a physician, it is my duty to inform patients of the health risks of gay sex, and to discourage them from indulging in harmful behavior.
I. DIFFERENCES BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL AND HETEROSEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS
The current media portrayal of gay and lesbian relationships is that they are as healthy, stable and loving as heterosexual marriages — or even more so.2 Medical associations are promoting somewhat similar messages.3 Nevertheless, there are at least five major areas of differences between gay and heterosexual relationships, each with specific medical consequences. Those differences include:
A. Levels of promiscuity
B. Physical health
C. Mental health
D. Life span
E. Definition of "monogamy" [/b]
---------------------------------------------------------------
health risks also apply to straight sex. I guess u'll be becoming a monk then [/b]
Nothing was mentioned that straight sex do not encounter health risks, but it is clear that HOMOSEXUAL behavior will result in HIGHER HEALTH RISKS.
No, I do not need to be a monk, neither do you need to be a nun - (if you are a female ) .
You can be quite well assured that if you will be a faithful companion to a member of your opposite sex, and learn to enjoy a positive normal sexual relationship enjoyed by NORMAL HOMOSAPIENS - through the use of the normal reproductive organs - it is unlikely that you will suffer from those Health Risks inflicted on the HOMOSEXUAL community.