Chinese "Speaking" Only......? Or "Chinese" only ?
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excellent.Originally posted by Elfred:Actually, it might be better if you don't get the job.
Even you speak Mandarin, the issue is you don't think Chinese. Which is a problem when what you think is right is not so right in the wisdom of Chinese, which means you probably won't go far in the job.
But if it's part time, it all depends on the nature of the job. Are you going to handle Chinese market? If so, you must think Chinese as well.
It's not the same as English, because Chinese as a language requires a certain cultural wisdom behind it. Which is why Chinese who speaks good English generally survives well outside China but foreigners who speaks Chinese often don't go relatively as well, especially Singaporean non-chinese.
Put yourself in the shoe of a boss, you have a very good chinese candidate with good potential, but without that basis behind, would you even recognise that potential? Most probably both are wasting the others' time.
took the words right out of my mouth.
being proficient in the chinese language merely means you are equiped with their communications devices.
adopting chinese culture means you are familiar with their lifestyle and protocol -
Hmm... it's normal lah...
When people say they are looking for chinese speaking person, they are looking for chinese...
When they say female working environment, they refer to only females applicants... face it lah loser...
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Actually, what I said is pretty general, (eg) because there are still non-chinese out there with such better wisdom than many Singaporean Chinese who have been undergoing the local education without the cultural heritage in China. And there are a huge group of mainland chinese who do not process such heritage themselves being victims of the cultural revolutions and the subsequent money-only mentality. But in comparison, our Chinese generally lose out to the mainland Chinese in the wisdom compartment.Originally posted by boy in blues:excellent.
took the words right out of my mouth.
being proficient in the chinese language merely means you are equiped with their communications devices.
adopting chinese culture means you are familiar with their lifestyle and protocol
It's as if getting a guy to sell bras where the targetted market is woman... often requiring services/enquiries over the bras and their... breasts. Unless really shorthanded, normally the company will have preference.
Right now, the most silly preference is on papers, not racism or sexism.
While J complains the company for being unfair to him, the company would be complaining the market which they are serving to be unfair to them. It goes both ways. -
my friend running a computer shop told me that now he has to deal with his customers in mandarin more often than before, especially in retail service. More chinese softwares are used now than before, educational software, translation software, chinese words softwares and even games software. You can't explain to these customers in english, using english computer terms!!
In small business sectors, many medical halls are using computers with chinese software and it is a niche market for my friend who can handle computers in mandarin.
If this were my business, I would employ a chinese! This is not racism or discrimination.
If your chinese is really so good as to be able to handle computer trouble shooting and handle customers in chinese, then it is the company that has missed the opportunity to employ a good and capable guy. -
Load of nonsense...so perhaps we should bring in mainland Chinese foreign talent for any job that requires Chinese-speaking staff. Most Singaporean Chinese are bananna anyway. Hardly met any Chinese Singaporean who can speak any decent Mandarin, not to talk about thinking Chinese.Originally posted by Elfred:Actually, it might be better if you don't get the job.
Even you speak Mandarin, the issue is you don't think Chinese. Which is a problem when what you think is right is not so right in the wisdom of Chinese, which means you probably won't go far in the job.
But if it's part time, it all depends on the nature of the job. Are you going to handle Chinese market? If so, you must think Chinese as well.
It's not the same as English, because Chinese as a language requires a certain cultural wisdom behind it. Which is why Chinese who speaks good English generally survives well outside China but foreigners who speaks Chinese often don't go relatively as well, especially Singaporean non-chinese.
Put yourself in the shoe of a boss, you have a very good chinese candidate with good potential, but without that basis behind, would you even recognise that potential? Most probably both are wasting the others' time. -
That's probably why we have so many Chinese Talents from China. Being online too long ain't very healthy if you ignore the outside world.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Load of nonsense...so perhaps we should bring in mainland Chinese foreign talent for any job that requires Chinese-speaking staff. Most Singaporean Chinese are bananna anyway. Hardly met any Chinese Singaporean who can speak any decent Mandarin, not to talk about thinking Chinese.
Most are banana... but they are still banana thinking in banana ways. If you aren't banana, how would you know their need to find Chinese-thinking people, or what sounds to them is Chinese thinking?
To them, everyone else who look chinese could be Chinese. And that's the mentality of the boss... you can't assume to serve a market of bananas... with somebody who can't match banana's Chinese thinking. See? -
some westerners think all chinese are kungfu experts who live on foggy mountains and talk like fortune cookie messages.Originally posted by Elfred:That's probably why we have so many Chinese Talents from China. Being online too long ain't very healthy if you ignore the outside world.
Most are banana... but they are still banana thinking in banana ways. If you aren't banana, how would you know their need to find Chinese-thinking people, or what sounds to them is Chinese thinking?
To them, everyone else who look chinese could be Chinese. And that's the mentality of the boss... you can't assume to serve a market of bananas... with somebody who can't match banana's Chinese thinking. See?
just fibbing -
Yeah... just look at the Kung Fu master in Kill Bill 2 and what he's wearing and we'd know how far such insult to intelligence goes...Originally posted by boy in blues:some westerners think all chinese are kungfu experts who live on foggy mountains and talk like fortune cookie messages.
just fibbing
But that's the market of ignorant Americans, and that's the market for such... ignorance in ignorance.
And it's just so applicable. If you are a chinese, and very chinese type, you might be better off working for a Chinese who are also very good in chinese culture. So it's still compatibility. Not all China Chinese bosses are necessarily cultured, but if you are a non-chinese, and you end up a Chinese boss... or vice versa... A mismatch is always a killer in a career.
If I myself can choose, I'd choose the more perfect boss to serve under. That's both good for me and the boss cos that'd mean less conflict and more prospect. -
You have a point there but this line of argument goes down a slippery slope. A similar argument was put up years ago in support of apartheid in South Africa.Originally posted by Elfred:To them, everyone else who look chinese could be Chinese. And that's the mentality of the boss... you can't assume to serve a market of bananas... with somebody who can't match banana's Chinese thinking. See?
"We cannot employ blacks 'cos they don't understand the cultural needs of our white customers and anyway, our white customers don't want to buy anything that has been touched by a black."
Are we going to support racism among employers because a subset of our clients are racist? Taken to extremes, one might say that the business leaders we deal with have all come from top Universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Stanford, Harvard or Yale. If you aren't one of these elite, we don't want you whatever your capability. You may be able to do the job, but you cannot think like them.
There is a need to be fluent in both the language and the culture....that is a valid point. But a non-Chinese can satisfy those criteria whilst many ethnic Chinese do not. I can speak from experience. I have been sent to China on business because I am fairly competent in the language and I am Chinese. But whilst I can quote Chinese poetry at the drop of a hat, I was no match for one angmo from Hong Kong who could curse and share Cantonese vulgarities with our Chinese hosts far better than I can. Now who is more culturally adept? -
its racism. simple.
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Are you assuming too much when you try to apply yourself to the general scope of works...?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:You have a point there but this line of argument goes down a slippery slope. A similar argument was put up years ago in support of apartheid in South Africa.
"We cannot employ blacks 'cos they don't understand the cultural needs of our white customers and anyway, our white customers don't want to buy anything that has been touched by a black."
Are we going to support racism among employers because a subset of our clients are racist? Taken to extremes, one might say that the business leaders we deal with have all come from top Universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Stanford, Harvard or Yale. If you aren't one of these elite, we don't want you whatever your capability. You may be able to do the job, but you cannot think like them.
There is a need to be fluent in both the language and the culture....that is a valid point. But a non-Chinese can satisfy those criteria whilst many ethnic Chinese do not. I can speak from experience. I have been sent to China on business because I am fairly competent in the language and I am Chinese. But whilst I can quote Chinese poetry at the drop of a hat, I was no match for one angmo from Hong Kong who could curse and share Cantonese vulgarities with our Chinese hosts far better than I can. Now who is more culturally adept?
It all depends. If Jeq is going to be sent to China with everything that Ang Moh could as you claimed, that's one thing.
But when he called for a part time, or a full time job with most of the local employers who are really not in the appetitide for huge gamble or for people for specific work scope, that's another thing altogether.
There is no promoting of racism here. For the market here is generally what those bosses perceived, it's naturally that what the preference would be best on. What is your company? If your company got a sales unit in China, would you get Jeq (a non-chinese I'm assuming to be able to speak Chinese fluently) over to be the sales person if you can get a chinese?
Now the problem is not whether the bosses are racist or not, but whether Jeq is the best option for a seemingly (assuming) Chinese market. Ask MM Lee himself. Why is the parliament more of Chinese? Is the parliament racist?
Not really. -
Obviously you've yet to grasp how the real world operates ...Originally posted by oxford mushroom:...
Taken to extremes, one might say that the business leaders we deal with have all come from top Universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Stanford, Harvard or Yale. If you aren't one of these elite, we don't want you whatever your capability. You may be able to do the job, but you cannot think like them.
....
Companies CEOs do tend to come from ivy league schools.
Only the poor kids go to ivy league to study, the rich and connected go there to network. After they graduate they become business buddies, and they curry favors with each other.
Grade is inconsequential comparing to the value of the "old boy network" they established.
Bush Jr. was a coke head, cheerleader, and C student in Yale, and he ended up in the Whitehouse. -
Old boys networks are one of the strongest things in the world today.Originally posted by YaoRockets:Obviously you've yet to grasp how the real world operates ...
Companies CEOs do tend to come from ivy league schools.
Only the poor kids go to ivy league to study, the rich and connected go there to network. After they graduate they become business buddies, and they curry favors with each other.
Grade is inconsequential comparing to the value of the "old boy network" they established.
Bush Jr. was a coke head, cheerleader, and C student in Yale, and he ended up in the Whitehouse. -
Employers / Advertisers: It is a CRIMINAL OFFENCE, to practice Racial Discrimination, which equates to RACISM.
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Why is this matter not addressed in the papers?Originally posted by ShutterBug:Employers / Advertisers: It is a CRIMINAL OFFENCE, to practice Racial Discrimination, which equates to RACISM.
They are using a loophole to hire only chinese which is unfair to our Indian and Malay counterparts. If they want to hire chinese, they should state the nature of the job and what duties are involved. And MOM should verify the authencity of the claim.
If s'poreans are worried about Ft stealing your jobs as it is not other races stealing yr job, it is foreigners, your own kind. And these unscruplous employers will just add fuel to the already raging trend. -
So unlike the 2 bloggers, why are these companies not charged for sedition?Originally posted by ShutterBug:Employers / Advertisers: It is a CRIMINAL OFFENCE, to practice Racial Discrimination, which equates to RACISM. -
unlike the 2 bloggers, companies pay taxes and provide jobs.Originally posted by Love Story:So unlike the 2 bloggers, why are these companies not charged for sedition?
Bloggers do not. The criminal charges are more like circus acts designed to appees the politically-correct few.
We know the world is changing and the need of economy always takes precedence over idealism.
One can't help comparing how those NanDa (Former Nanyang U) grads felt when they can't get hired during the 60s & 70s.
If the Chinese-educated made it in the English speaking world, why can't the non-Chinese speaking ones in reverse role ?
For goodness sake, quit whinning, grow up and start learning some Mandarin ! -
clap, clap, clap..... well saidOriginally posted by Gun:unlike the 2 bloggers, companies pay taxes and provide jobs.
Bloggers do not. The criminal charges are more like circus acts designed to appees the politically-correct few.
We know the world is changing and the need of economy always takes precedence over idealism.
One can't help comparing how those NanDa (Former Nanyang U) grads felt when they can't get hired during the 60s & 70s.
If the Chinese-educated made it in the English speaking world, why can't the non-Chinese speaking ones in reverse role ?
For goodness sake, quit whinning, grow up and start learning some Mandarin !
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everything call 999 police must be very busy.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:I agree, although I am Chinese myself. In fact, employers cannot employ only Chinese speaking persons when the job does not require it. It is fair enough to insist of Chinese speaking staff if you are employing a tutor in Mandarin...that's logical, but if you looking for a driver or someone to pack your things, what does it matter as long as both of you speak English?
They certainly CANNOT only employ persons of a particular race...I would make a police report and write to the Straits Times.
Such employers must be taken to task. -
i'm a chinese but i don't usually converse in mandrain. English is my forte..N my frens' teachin me some french too. :]
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the other day i went to malay stall to buy nasi lemak. got one malay auntie jump q and was served first. is the stall holder racist ?
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shouldnt jump to conclusions quickly. it's conclusions like this that cause racism to occur. maybe she regular customer, or relative.Originally posted by crazy monkey:the other day i went to malay stall to buy nasi lemak. got one malay auntie jump q and was served first. is the stall holder racist ? -
ya lor just look at the earlier postings in the thread.Originally posted by sinicker:shouldnt jump to conclusions quickly. it's conclusions like this that cause racism to occur. maybe she regular customer, or relative.
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Honestly, I completely understand your situation.
But racial exist everywhere, in some form or another. Even in the most racially harmonious societies. -
You know what? That's what most of the minorities are doing. And their reward for that? "Sorry, position's already been taken up." See, for your ignorant mind's information, we minorities have been consistently discriminated no matter how hard we try to break out of the cycle. We study hard, get good degrees, heck, as YOU suggest, learnt mandarin. Some of us have tried so goddamn hard to conform to YOUR rules and procedures. But in the end, does it all matter? Not when the root of this is blatant racism. Ever wondered why minorities are rarely found to be successful? This is why. Opportunities limited. So not only are we subjected to stereotypes, preventive barriers are put up so that we stay in the poverty cycle that most of us are in and be stereoyped for eternity. So before you rebuke anyone for whining and not trying, please think again. Carefully.Originally posted by Gun:unlike the 2 bloggers, companies pay taxes and provide jobs.
Bloggers do not. The criminal charges are more like circus acts designed to appees the politically-correct few.
We know the world is changing and the need of economy always takes precedence over idealism.
One can't help comparing how those NanDa (Former Nanyang U) grads felt when they can't get hired during the 60s & 70s.
If the Chinese-educated made it in the English speaking world, why can't the non-Chinese speaking ones in reverse role ?
For goodness sake, quit whinning, grow up and start learning some Mandarin !