Government to pay for restriction imposed on Singaporeans
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USA departing Ambassador Frank Lavin had this to say about Singapore (amongst other things)at his farewell dinner -
"...Singapore has its share of challenges as well. Singapore has flourished over the past 40 years, but is a 20th century model adequate for the 21st century? Singapore is grappling with the definitional questions of what kind of society it wants.
My question is - are we, the ordinary citizens prepared and willing to make PAP government pay for denying us the freedom of speech and participation in our country's policies.?
"Remaking its economy is, in a sense, the easy decision. Shaping a political system to reflect the needs and aspirations of its citizens is more difficult and more sensitive. What are the bounds of expression? What say should citizens have in their government?
"In this era of weblogs and webcans, how much sense does it make to limit political expression? Remember, we have the death of distance. There are no more islands any more. As part of Singapores success is its strong international links, it is surprising to find constraints on discussion here."
"In my view, governments will pay an increasing price for not allowing full participation of their citizens..........."
Singapore Government feedback units are just for show, you have to be fool not to know that! -
The average citizen, myself included, is so caught up with the bread-and-butter issues that freedom of speech and participation in country' policies are way in the back of my mind.
(1) Freedom of speech
Yeah but through what channel? Any letter to newspapers are filtered for content etc. You can talk all you want on the internet forums but it serves no real purpose cos the govt is not reading it. (I also wonder what I'm doing here. To satisfy my own vanity to get my opinion published on a website?)
(2) Participation in country's policies
As much as the average citizen is apathetic (is that the word?) to politics, when policies influence our lives, we send letters in, we nag, we grumble, we "exercise our freedom of speech" to give feedback that the govt says it will consider.
But I remember one govt minister saying in the casino debate case, the people can give all the feedback we want to give, in the end the govt will decide what "it" thinks is the best.
How are we going to participate in policy-making?
(A) Go join the ranks of PAP, rise through it and make yourself and your views heard.
(B) Since the existing opposition in S'pore is really unreliable (my personal opinion), one can form own opposition platform. But then i can't guarantee the support u get at elections.
So, my major question is: How can we participate in policy-making in a real, meaningful way?
Voting? Currently, i don't believe in voting out PAP cos they are relatively good at governance (pls compare with other democratic countries and the state of their society, economy, crime rate etc) and provide political stability.
Another reason is, there is no strong, trustworthy opposition.
How do we participate? -
If there is a riot,i will definitely join in the revolt to overthrow PAP.
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aphael
You echo exactly the singaporean mentality which is -
"so long as government provides all my creature comforts, nothing else matters.." This is exactly what the government wants us to be. Have we all fallen into a big spider web?
I think there is real danger in this sort of thinking.
What if the present ruling regime, in the future, decides that since the people always vote for them - they may take the people for granted and change the election system and there may be no more general election? Our children and grandchildren will suffer a full dictatorship rule because of our political apathy.
Looking forward, dont you agree that there is a possibility that a leader will emerge from PAP in the future who will follow the Myanmar or North Korea style of control ? The signs are already there that it is starting to take shape. Son takes over from father, and soon grandson takes over ..
They say too much power corrupts, it is already happening in our country. We are all losing our say in the making of our country. Do you really prefer this to geniune freedom of speech and expression? -
Because newspapers no longer publish people's views and their problems being tightly controlled, under the instruction not to engage in crusading journalism, the great invention of internet and blogs offer the only venues for people to express their views. The press does publish apparently critical letters from readers but these were subjected to heavy editing and many really critical ones were simply withdrawn (after acceptance for publication) or thrown away in the waste paper basket.Originally posted by Aphrael:Yeah but through what channel? Any letter to newspapers are filtered for content etc. You can talk all you want on the internet forums but it serves no real purpose cos the govt is not reading it. (I also wonder what I'm doing here. To satisfy my own vanity to get my opinion published on a website?)
The past controls over expressions of views and opinions under press control and widespread use of political defamation suits have been so pervasive that Singaporeans have totally lost any power of thought over bigger issues of survival and competitiveness.
Singaporeans are losing out in a bigger way in that there is now hardly anyone to disagree with policies or ministers' replies on bus fare or utility price increases. So no one is giving their views on national issues of survival or competetiveness. That is the real cost of curbing of people's expressions of views and opinions.
How many people are really willing and coming forward to give their critical and objective views or tell the truths on any issues?
That is the main issue behind the actions against racist bloggers not like what certain forumers are saying that racism was the real problem and that they would willingly accept the actions on the racists concerned when that case would be used as legal test for extending of control over expressions in blogs and the internet. This has been the state of citizens' apathy ..being easily brainwashed into accepting imagined fears about certain problems when bigger problems are bestowed upon them.
Now we can expect more actions to be taken not on racist bloggers after this case but for remarks alleged to be defamatory over the blogs or internet There are already hints of worse clamp downs on expressions to come even in our forums ..we all forumers will not be able to say anything as we objectively feel justified to say in the future. That is why Li Hao was right in criticising Singaporeans as gullible (not of the Lee Wei Ling type or category) as being unable to stand up to this type of governance - using fears about racism as justification to give them the legal means to regard remarks over the blogs or internet as publication or broadcast. -
What is genuine freedom of speech and expression?Originally posted by freeNeasy:aphael
You echo exactly the singaporean mentality which is -
"so long as government provides all my creature comforts, nothing else matters.." This is exactly what the government wants us to be. Have we all fallen into a big spider web?
I think there is real danger in this sort of thinking.
What if the present ruling regime, in the future, decides that since the people always vote for them - they may take the people for granted and change the election system and there may be no more general election? Our children and grandchildren will suffer a full dictatorship rule because of our political apathy.
Looking forward, dont you agree that there is a possibility that a leader will emerge from PAP in the future who will follow the Myanmar or North Korea style of control ? The signs are already there that it is starting to take shape. Son takes over from father, and soon grandson takes over ..
They say too much power corrupts, it is already happening in our country. We are all losing our say in the making of our country. Do you really prefer this to geniune freedom of speech and expression?
One can say all one likes but it doesn't translate into anything that gets done.
Can one work within the govt to achieve balanced policy-making, or does one have to go outside the govt? -
yeah, and i will just watch u on the tvOriginally posted by drawer:If there is a riot,i will definitely join in the revolt to overthrow PAP.
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And with a bunch of revolutionalists burning PAP flag n celebrate our victory!!!!Originally posted by Aphrael:yeah, and i will just watch u on the tv -
Checks and balances can exist in a stable nation.In fact, they are the fundamental underpinnings of social stability and long-term national survival.
There is no room for monopolies over information and opinions because any lack of competition will dull the edge of a Republic that lives on information and global communications. -
Check and balance has worked well in many western countries even as they have to contend with existing problems because the total final outcome are better and more informed decisions.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Checks and balances can exist in a stable nation.In fact, they are the fundamental underpinnings of social stability and long-term national survival.
There is no room for monopolies over information and opinions because any lack of competition will dull the edge of a Republic that lives on information and global communications.
Great scientific discoveries, Nobel Prize-winning latest advances in human knowledge, technological excellences happen.
In addition, once information are open being subject to scrutiny by peers and independent panels. there will be less abuses, wrong doings, self-approval or rewards or bonues or potential hidden agendas like the GRCs or NKF or negligences and highway collapses without prior proactive actions. -
i don't believe in voting out PAP cos they are relatively good at governance (pls compare with other democratic countries and the state of their society, economy, crime rate etc) and provide political stability.
it's a chicken and egg issue. how do you become good at governing if you're never allowed to govern at all? having governed for so long, can you not at least be decent in governance? comparisons are sometimes fruitless coz no matter how green (or brown) the grass is on the other side, we live with the realities of our side. in other words we have no choice. we either emigrate or we accept and live with the frustrations imposed upon us.
Another reason is, there is no strong, trustworthy opposition.
How do we participate?[/b]
if we really want to compare, then we should be more specific about the countries we're comparing to. there are so many other democratic countries, first and third world alike. how meaningful is it to compare us with say an african nation, the plight of whose people our leaders sometimes refer to? in that case why not also compare the kind of salaries their leaders are getting versus those of ours?
as for how do we participate, we don't. the recent casino "debate" has shown that we have no say. we have been told time and again that we are all not born equal. some will always have their say, the rest can consider themselves lucky if they're left alone. -
And he said this only during his farewell dinner? How abt other times?
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What checks and balances? Pres Ong Teng Cheong had a hard time trying to use this piece of faulty mechanism about the country's reserves!
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You think it would be in everyone's best interests if he had said it at any other time?Maybe he did.In confidence, in talks.Originally posted by laurence82:And he said this only during his farewell dinner? How abt other times?
But publicly saying so..that's a different ball game altogether. -
It is YOU, this type of Singaporeans, who are self-absorbed & insensitive to other fellow Singaporeans. Always depending on others to do the dirty job, then after that feed on the fruits of those who fight for it. Damn disgusting & pathetic. Really pisses me off man, these type of people.Originally posted by Aphrael:yeah, and i will just watch u on the tv -
Spirit of Fire,Originally posted by Spirit of Fire:It is YOU, this type of Singaporeans, who are self-absorbed & insensitive to other fellow Singaporeans. Always depending on others to do the dirty job, then after that feed on the fruits of those who fight for it. Damn disgusting & pathetic. Really pisses me off man, these type of people.
I am afraid you are right. I can see many Singaporeans are in this category. They know what is happening is wrong but they don't want to be the one to do the dirty work like standing up to the wrong doers and want others to do it for them. When the time comes should they see the wind of change, they would quickly follow to do what is right and probably claim credit too. -
The way strict rules are "dropped" is startling.
I'm afraid the "strictness" now will look so much different by the time we reach 2009.
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If the two most fundamental rules are not dropped, there will be no change but false pretences.Originally posted by macjoe:The way strict rules are "dropped" is startling.
I'm afraid the "strictness" now will look so much different by the time we reach 2009.
First freedom of expressing citizens' views in newspapers or televisions without media licensing control.
Second, freedom to put up any candidates people want and leave them to the people to decide whether or not to cast their votes without the government interfering in election process, through GRC system in the pretentious name of racial harmony or defaming suit. -
IMHO, you're just another typical Singapore citizen being brainwashed by PAP propaganda that the opposition is weak and not trustworthy.Originally posted by Aphrael:Currently, i don't believe in voting out PAP cos they are relatively good at governance (pls compare with other democratic countries and the state of their society, economy, crime rate etc) and provide political stability.
Another reason is, there is no strong, trustworthy opposition.
There're many professionals in the opposition rank with a heart to serve our country. At least I can trust that they're patriotic.
Are you really sure that you can entrust the future of our country to a bunch of scholars who don't even know how the average citizen is doing? -
it is unethical of the outgoing US ambassador to say things about Singapore. They can say all they want about the perceived lack of demorcracy in Singapore, but we can also laugh at their way of voting. They think they are the democratic land of the world, but they can't even vote a president properly, as seen in 2000.
it is this big mouth attitude, this big brother attitude, that has caused US so many enemies. its time for them to know when and how 2 comment about others. -
At least all their adult citizens get to cast their votes. With our GRC system, some people are robbed of that once in a blue moon chance.Originally posted by nanren4ever:it is unethical of the outgoing US ambassador to say things about Singapore. They can say all they want about the perceived lack of demorcracy in Singapore, but we can also laugh at their way of voting. They think they are the democratic land of the world, but they can't even vote a president properly, as seen in 2000.
it is this big mouth attitude, this big brother attitude, that has caused US so many enemies. its time for them to know when and how 2 comment about others. -
When citizens are deprived of their freedoms of expressions and government is competing against the citizens for business, can such a country survive?Originally posted by nanren4ever:it is unethical of the outgoing US ambassador to say things about Singapore. They can say all they want about the perceived lack of demorcracy in Singapore, but we can also laugh at their way of voting. They think they are the democratic land of the world, but they can't even vote a president properly, as seen in 2000.
it is this big mouth attitude, this big brother attitude, that has caused US so many enemies. its time for them to know when and how 2 comment about others.
Singaporeans need the help of outsiders like Mahathir, US ambassador or Li Hao to free them of many problems.
In this situation, what the US ambassador has done is protection of human rights. -
Hey thanks man! If I have the opportunity & have the appropriate number of supporters, I'll not hesitate to stage either a demonstration or a protest. Or if others start 1st, I'll also not hesitate to join them. Really, many Singaporeans have an extremely long way to go before we can see an overhaul of the system of government over here. I think that many would just turn a blind eye when they see their fellow Singaporeans are in trouble. The worst are those who run away, damn it!!! Those Singaporeans who do not have to courage to stand up & fight for justice are really damn bloody pathetic, phui!!! Now I understand what is the real meaning of parasites, never do anything then still dare to claim credit, phui!!!Originally posted by robertteh:Spirit of Fire,
I am afraid you are right. I can see many Singaporeans are in this category. They know what is happening is wrong but they don't want to be the one to do the dirty work like standing up to the wrong doers and want others to do it for them. When the time comes should they see the wind of change, they would quickly follow to do what is right and probably claim credit too.
From 'The Matrix'
“You're here because you know something. What you know you can't explain -- but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life; that there's something wrong with the world; you don't know what it is, but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about?”
“The Matrix,” Neo asks?
“Do you want to know what it is? The Matrix is everywhere, it is all around us. Even in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes; it is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.”
And Neo asks, “What truth?”
“That you are a slave Neo, like everyone else, you were born into bondage; born into a prison that you cannot smell or taste or touch; a prison for your mind. Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to experience it for yourself.”
Those few humans who were either born into reality, or have successfully taken the red pill, become the focus of the movie's story -- their attempts to destroy the Matrix and liberate the mass of humanity that lives completely encapsulated in their pods and the illusions fed to them by the powers that be -- powers that will go to any length to maintain the illusion.