Is US ambassador deemed to be interfering in our affairs?
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In order for the others to respect us, we Singaporeans have to learn to respect ourselves first.
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If US has been warding off the threats of communism and imperialism (against Japanese, European type of imperialism) for so many years, it can be more trusted to uphold peace, progress and human values for suppressed nations in the world should their own government fail to practise human dignities.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Who is saying that he is interfering in our internal affairs??
Will be glad to see the present US embassador having lunch with Goh MS or any members of opposition parties. If the PAP government remains quiet even when that happen, you still can't succeed in picking a fight with them.
But, we will probably have to wait till he leaves.
I see any continuing promotion of democracy and human rights by US and its ambassadors as positive not something to be suspected. At least they can be more trusted than own governments of many countries.
Given the above historical facts, about US I see any lunches with our oppositions members like GMS or Steve Chia as perfectly in order and not interfering in our internal affairs. -
any politiican can have lunch meeting with anyone. "see who pay". it will either be in western dipomatic setting or typical singapore hawker settings with satay and chicken rice..
Anyone feels objected , then that person is either jealous why he not invited instead of oppositions. -
I recognised the old traditional american values in upholding peace...against suppressed nations in the world, during WW2 and especially during the COLD WAR. But today, such values are giving way to american's own interests, its own security in fighting the terrorists, its own economy in securing supplies of oil and the issue of steel import, its own industrialization in dealing with international treaties such as Kyoto Protocol, just to name a few. a bit out of topic but I have no doubt about the truth of what is said (about freedom in spore), neither do I suspect his intention to want to speak something good, I question the effectiveness of such statement and I certainly feel that much more can be done, could have been done, if there is a true intention asking for changes.Originally posted by robertteh:If US has been warding off the threats of communism and imperialism (against Japanese, European type of imperialism) for so many years, it can be more trusted to uphold peace, progress and human values for suppressed nations in the world should their own government fail to practise human dignities.
I see any continuing promotion of democracy and human rights by US and its ambassadors as positive not something to be suspected. At least they can be more trusted than own governments of many countries.
Given the above historical facts, about US I see any lunches with our oppositions members like GMS or Steve Chia as perfectly in order and not interfering in our internal affairs.
In other words, I won't look at a yellow piece of s h i t and shout "Gold !".
I don't know about historical facts or about US, I am talking about HERE in Singapore, if the US embassador does have lunches with our oppositions members, and if the government does not make noise, then they have indeed become more "magnanimous". But, the US embassador must first invite the opposition members leh. No lunch how can we know if the PAP has become more tolerant? (I am also waiting for ppl to buy me free lunch 
).
It is immaterial whether you or I think such lunches are "as perfectly in order and not interfering in our internal affairs". The US embassador lunches with many hushands and wives and who is to say if he were interfering in somebody's domestic affairs? -
Salman,Originally posted by Salman:Lets be fair on this issue.
Yes, what Franky said is true. I do think that our govt is very stupid & childish to charge the previously unknown bloggers. It could well be our weakness in the long run.
But to call for the overthrow of PAP is ridiculous. PAP has done a great job for Singapore all these years.
When deciding whether to overthrow the PAP, we should decide whether it is doing a great job for Singapore now, and not whether it has done a great job for Singapore throughout the past. Precedent is merely an excuse to mask present circumstance.
the (skeptical) pikamaster -
That is the percipient pikamaster.Originally posted by pikamaster:Salman,
When deciding whether to overthrow the PAP, we should decide whether it is doing a great job for Singapore now, and not whether it has done a great job for Singapore throughout the past. Precedent is merely an excuse to mask present circumstance.
the (skeptical) pikamaster -
Sometimes, universal values take precedence over the short-sightedness of certain governmental policies around the world.We must understand that humankind is growing closer and the need to find common universal values is of utmost concern.Originally posted by robertteh:If US has been warding off the threats of communism and imperialism (against Japanese, European type of imperialism) for so many years, it can be more trusted to uphold peace, progress and human values for suppressed nations in the world should their own government fail to practise human dignities.
I see any continuing promotion of democracy and human rights by US and its ambassadors as positive not something to be suspected. At least they can be more trusted than own governments of many countries.
Given the above historical facts, about US I see any lunches with our oppositions members like GMS or Steve Chia as perfectly in order and not interfering in our internal affairs. -
We see such great similarity between PAP and American. PAP definitely did a great job in building up and keeping Singapore, and america did a great job in "warding off the threats of communism and imperialism.....” and "uphold peace, progress and human values for suppressed nations in the world" for so many years. But these are all things in the past.Originally posted by pikamaster:Salman,
When deciding whether to overthrow the PAP, we should decide whether it is doing a great job for Singapore now, and not whether it has done a great job for Singapore throughout the past. Precedent is merely an excuse to mask present circumstance.
the (skeptical) pikamaster
Now PAP is the only power in Singapore and America is the only superpower in the world. PAP's power in singapore cannot be checked and america is also the only world power capable of going against the UN, attacking any country who are against American interests, exploiting poorer nations (in name of globalization), protecting their own interests (even if it is at the expense of global environment). It is the same ONE PARTY, ONE POWER.
We ask if PAP is doing a great job for Singapore now, but we don't ask if America is doing a great job for the world, and we only talk about the good things in america?
“Precedent is merely an excuse to mask present circumstance” is indeed a word of wisdom, but the same word of wisdom can be of any value, or become a “universal values” only if it applies equally to all nations and all mankind.
I do not deny there are problems in Singapore, but in looking for a possible amendment, improvement or even an alternative (to overthrow??) to the Singapore system, I never fail to see the ugly parts of America hidden under, or disguised as “Freedom and democracy” .
But all too often, many see a piece of American s h its and quickly declare “Gold”! is it an oversight or simply double standard “the (Double Standard) pikamaster? -
We do ask and many are seeing the failings of America.But if we ignore the good that we they have done and the good the PAP have done, yes it is a mistake.But how do we reconcile that both groups have flaws which looked at through each respective eyes, are more apparent and need to be fixed?
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What is pragmatic in that it sacrifices certain people's causes or interests for some supposed long-term gain which cannot be seen to be beneficial to any one except the government cannot become right. What is deprived cannot disappear because of such pragmatism. By practising non-welfare, the state can survive but pushing prices skyward to avoid welfare but to create surpluses and profits for state does not help the people in anyway. So this is a distortion of people's rights and interests.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Sometimes, universal values take precedence over the short-sightedness of certain governmental policies around the world.We must understand that humankind is growing closer and the need to find common universal values is of utmost concern.
What is wrong no matter how the wrong is justified can also not become right.
NFK's exposure by the people shows that at the end wrong does not become right even over the passage of time. Patient's treatment costs become high because of pragmatic building of reserve for NKF under some supposed long-term pain is creating perpetual pain instead.
People remember the wrongful pragmatism which cannot go away because they cannot survive or do well and after some time and at the right moment, they will react.
No maintaining a sense of nobility and causes for the people's struggles and identifying people's aspirations are the right thing to believe even if they are not done or sacrificed now by favoritism of whole system to the elites. -
Yeah I was just underlining the basic fundamental underpinnings..Originally posted by robertteh:What is pragmatic in that it sacrifices certain people's causes or interests for some supposed long-term gain which cannot be seen to be beneficial to any one except the government cannot become right. What is deprived cannot disappear because of such pragmatism. By practising non-welfare, the state can survive but pushing prices skyward to avoid welfare but to create surpluses and profits for state does not help the people in anyway. So this is a distortion of people's rights and interests.
What is wrong no matter how the wrong is justified can also not become right.
NFK's exposure by the people shows that at the end wrong does not become right even over the passage of time. Patient's treatment costs become high because of pragmatic building of reserve for NKF under some supposed long-term pain is creating perpetual pain instead.
People remember the wrongful pragmatism which cannot go away because they cannot survive or do well and after some time and at the right moment, they will react.
No maintaining a sense of nobility and causes for the people's struggles and identifying people's aspirations are the right thing to believe even if they are not done or sacrificed now by favoritism of whole system to the elites. -
Put USA, its values, its embassador aside and just talk about singapore, from a singaporean's point of view, I am with you.Originally posted by LazerLordz:We do ask and many are seeing the failings of America.But if we ignore the good that we they have done and the good the PAP have done, yes it is a mistake.But how do we reconcile that both groups have flaws which looked at through each respective eyes, are more apparent and need to be fixed?