Tertiary education in singapore need to be changed
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erm .. what are "foreign talents" for?Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Then we will have too many enterprises. Too little workers. Since too little workers, our economy will suffer.
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in my perspective, our youths are a unique generation. caught in the transition from a comfortably paced traditional era to a fast paced high-technololgy world.Originally posted by Icemoon:huh .. in school got tutors and lecturers dun want to find? after all we paid our school fees which include academic consultation.
it's true, tutors/lecturers are there. but due to our Asian background, most students tend to find them unapproachable, consciously or unconsciously.
so we cannot assume that our youths are comfortable enough to find them. in our part of the world, it sometimes takes either a reasonably confident youth or reasonably dedicated tutor/lecturer to find each other and build up a good student-mentor relationship.
so that brings us to fundamentals like...
1) instilling confidence in our youths &
2) re-discovering the spirit of "nurturing" in our educators
not an easy task of course.
that's why my proposition as a non-academic bystander... to gather VOLUNTEERS & reach out to our youths and mentor them in whatever little ways we can. Be it via non-intrusive methods such as MSN chatting or even regular face-to-face weekly informal "learning/sharing" sessions.
i'd love to hear from fellow forumites about my above proposition. conceptualized only very recently. what do you think?
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I am wondering about the help a youth can get. If they run in academic difficulties, will they get the help they wanted or will the "learning/sharing" sessions or msn chatting turn into talking cock session?
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It really depends on what kind of subjects you are talking about man. If you are talking bout stuff like communication and business courses, maybe having experience practical work helps. but then again such courses usually need u to prep up on theory work b4 you are good enuff to do the practical.
for engineering and science subjects, all the more you need theory from basic to advance.... so it is for maths, econs, literature subjects...
come on, there's a reason why ppl spend so much to go to school.
what u are talking about here is street smart... I feel street smart is sometimes based on ur upbringing, the culture and social expectations of you. Some ppl are just not meant to be very street smart, while some excel in life through street smart.
sometimes ppl tend to deface the value of education esp during bad economic times and thinking street smart is the way to go. That is simply not true... in the world we are living in today, all the more u need a book education. and singaporeans are not getting enuff. i mean u look at the way americans work, do you know their military commissioned officers if im not wrong all have to be graduates? in singapore, we are still having regular officers who are poly educated. and for their lawyers and doctors, they get their law and med degrees as a second degree.. meaning they study an undergraduate degree like econs, or science, and then go on the graduate school for their post grad med and law degree? while we singaporeans are doing med and law as an undergrad degree. i understand we have to do it that way due to many reasons. what i meant is , book education is of great importance. practical work gets things done.. but u need to be learn some theory first to really get you anywhere -
the quality of the mentor would be important too.Originally posted by Icemoon:I am wondering about the help a youth can get. If they run in academic difficulties, will they get the help they wanted or will the "learning/sharing" sessions or msn chatting turn into talking cock session?
it would be the mentor's responsibility to lead & guide the sharing sessions such that it's informative, yet none too pressurizing... motivating, yet not too casual etc....
i share your concerns & doubts. which is why i'm here to sound my ideas by you folks...
been a while since i left the volunteering scene. haha. trying to catch up & see what i can do to contribute again. -
I suggest teaching time allocation for tertiary (based on 100%) to be:
- 30% Theory
- 30% Application
- 30% Softskills, Interview Techniques, Effective Communication (Written & Spoken), Etiquette, Personal Grooming, Negotiation skill, etc.
- 5%: Understanding the world (based on the course)
- 5%: Sports & Personal Wellness
Wat u all think? -
is that for a module or as a whole?Originally posted by thinker:I suggest teaching time allocation for tertiary (based on 100%) to be:
- 30% Theory
- 30% Application
- 30% Softskills, Interview Techniques, Effective Communication (Written & Spoken), Etiquette, Personal Grooming, Negotiation skill, etc.
- 5%: Understanding the world (based on the course)
- 5%: Sports & Personal Wellness
Wat u all think? -
As a whole.Originally posted by Icemoon:is that for a module or as a whole?
. And no more/cancel 2-3mths (Poly) attachment or 6mths (University) attachment. 
Probably can use the time for Entreprenuership thru' inter-disciplinary/department grouping etc (E.g. 1 Group: 1 marketing student, 1 accountancy student, 1 electrical/electronic engineering student, 1 banking & finance student. , etc).
Benefits:
- Inter-disciplinary/department students in a group can interact to understand/pick-up some knowledge from one another.
E.g. Engineering student comes up with a product -> marketing student come up with market survey and research, pricing, marketing plans, etc -> banking and finance student advise the group on funding and bank loan, how to do a write up, etc -> Accountancy student can come up with a business plan, inform the group on the accounts rules and regulations and procedures etc.
This helps if in future any of the student wanted to be an Entreprenuer.
- Good entreprenuer group can also be funded to get the business going once they graduated. -
Industrial attachment is a different thing from entrepreneurship and I do see a few problems here. In IA you are working under a supervisor whereas your entrepreneurship grouping is working independently? I can't see how you can form so many groupings.Originally posted by thinker:As a whole. . And no more/cancel 2-3mths (Poly) attachment or 6mths (University) attachment. Probably can use the time for Entreprenuership thru' inter-disciplinary/department grouping etc (E.g. 1 Group: 1 marketing student, 1 accountancy student, 1 electrical/electronic engineering student, 1 banking & finance student. , etc).
Benefits:
- Inter-disciplinary/department students in a group can interact to understand/pick-up some knowledge from one another.
Encourage entrepreneurship by all means. The university provides many opportunities for that. You can take part in business plan competitions and they do provide incubation space for you to develop your fledging business. But I don't see why the IA should be cancelled. What if you are embarking on a research track? -
It is quite impossible to allocate teaching time as a whole as the university is based on a modular system. The uni can only go so far as to stipulate the type of module you must take (interdisciplinary, cross fac .. the new JC h1, h2, h3 system starting next year is semi-copy uni one).Originally posted by thinker:I suggest teaching time allocation for tertiary (based on 100%) to be:
- 30% Theory
- 30% Application
- 30% Softskills, Interview Techniques, Effective Communication (Written & Spoken), Etiquette, Personal Grooming, Negotiation skill, etc.
- 5%: Understanding the world (based on the course)
- 5%: Sports & Personal Wellness
Wat u all think? -
Hi nice to discuss with uOriginally posted by Icemoon:Industrial attachment is a different thing from entrepreneurship and I do see a few problems here. In IA you are working under a supervisor whereas your entrepreneurship grouping is working independently? I can't see how you can form so many groupings.
Encourage entrepreneurship by all means. The university provides many opportunities for that. You can take part in business plan competitions and they do provide incubation space for you to develop your fledging business. But I don't see why the IA should be cancelled. What if you are embarking on a research track? .
I am just giving a suggestion. It can be better fine-tune by the respective tertiary schools. Anyway, we can have both options open for student to decide (Elective ?).
My suggestion is to allow student to see the role of each discipline and interact/understand more from each other. -
then maths student do what?Originally posted by thinker:E.g. Engineering student comes up with a product -> marketing student come up with market survey and research, pricing, marketing plans, etc -> banking and finance student advise the group on funding and bank loan, how to do a write up, etc -> Accountancy student can come up with a business plan, inform the group on the accounts rules and regulations and procedures etc.
physics student do what?
history student do what?
I can go on and on. -
My view is if someone is interested in entrepreneurship, he or she will go for it. Invest in bonds, stock market, start company .. many students are doing that and on their own. The university facilitates by allowing societies like entrepreneurship clubs to exist. Even the faculty organises talks that invite industry people to share their experience with students. Like I mentioned, there are also business plan competitions where there are opportunities for you to get funding.Originally posted by thinker:I am just giving a suggestion. It can be better fine-tune by the respective tertiary schools. Anyway, we can have both options open for student to decide (Elective ?).
My suggestion is to allow student to see the role of each discipline and interact/understand more from each other.
About interacting with each other . . I dunno. I see not much point, pardon me, in seeing how my HR friends work, the marketing dept pple work, the lawyers work, if I'm working in a company. I just want to know how my fellow engineers work. This is the point of IA. -
As I reply previously, we can have both options (or even more) open for student to decide. I do not have in-depth knowledge of the teaching of these faculties.Originally posted by Icemoon:then maths student do what?
physics student do what?
history student do what?
I can go on and on.
Anyway, does a maths student really need to work in maths line? same thing applies to physics/history students. I have actually heard of law graduate -> car dealers, and they r happy in their line. Why not?
Who knows with such grouping, maths student can come up with products that have value to the market? (E.g. University maths research stimulation/teaching s/w -> Group may include maths student, computing science/computer engineering student, business student, etc. )?
Nothing is impossible. No one predicted that human can be transported by aeroplanes in the past.
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so who will supervise them?Originally posted by thinker:Who knows with such grouping, maths student can come up with products that have value to the market? (E.g. University maths research stimulation/teaching s/w -> Group may include maths student, computing science/computer engineering student, business student, etc. )?
Haha .. a bit siong if you need to get a group of supervisors to supervise them leh.
and a bit unfair if you attach this big group to a maths professor who know nuts about business and marketing. -
My point is, if you're making this as part of the degree requirement, then it should be relevant to the degree, no?Originally posted by thinker:Anyway, does a maths student really need to work in maths line? same thing applies to physics/history students. I have actually heard of law graduate -> car dealers, and they r happy in their line. Why not? -
This one the schools will decide.Originally posted by Icemoon:so who will supervise them?
Haha .. a bit siong if you need to get a group of supervisors to supervise them leh.
and a bit unfair if you attach this big group to a maths professor who know nuts about business and marketing.
Main point is not to give much red-tape/guidance/suggestion/idea to the group. Let them stand on their feet, but definitely have grading criterias(decided by the school).
Groups may even get their own sponsorship if they can -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
Relevancy will depend on how its been implemented and what sort of student/graduate the uni/poly wanted to have and the direction of the uni/poly.
My point is, if you're making this as part of the degree requirement, then it should be [b]relevant to the degree, no?[/b] -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
if i may ask... how does your marketing dept work?
About interacting with each other . . I dunno. I see not much point, pardon me, in seeing how my HR friends work, [b]the marketing dept pple work, the lawyers work, if I'm working in a company. I just want to know how my fellow engineers work. This is the point of IA.[/b] haha, it's ok if u prefer not to reply.
On thinker's proposal... inter-faculty interactions/co-operations on a more leisurely or less stressful level should be fine. This is because our youths are still in the learning/discovery stage during their tertiary years. As such, it may become too much of a challenge or stress to be expected to produce RESULTS (be it monetary profit or academic performance).
On Icemoon's view (on IAs), i tend to agree that it's necessary. Disregarding the academic achievement a student must target for at the end of the attachment, the EXPOSURE in seeing how a REAL company (big or small) is true value in itself.
of course, the supervisor in the company receiving these interns should provide appropriate guidance and not be over wary of sharing their work experience. don't treat the students like cheap labour or free "consultants" (since they're supposed to be majoring in certain subjects). haha. -
that's what they are doing now what... all those business plans engineering students need to come up with... all these business stuff is no more restricted to just biz students. all engineering students have to attend communication classes, do presentation, practise public speaking. all those stuff u all are talking about have already being implemented a while ago...Originally posted by thinker:As a whole. . And no more/cancel 2-3mths (Poly) attachment or 6mths (University) attachment. Probably can use the time for Entreprenuership thru' inter-disciplinary/department grouping etc (E.g. 1 Group: 1 marketing student, 1 accountancy student, 1 electrical/electronic engineering student, 1 banking & finance student. , etc).
Benefits:
- Inter-disciplinary/department students in a group can interact to understand/pick-up some knowledge from one another.
E.g. Engineering student comes up with a product -> marketing student come up with market survey and research, pricing, marketing plans, etc -> banking and finance student advise the group on funding and bank loan, how to do a write up, etc -> Accountancy student can come up with a business plan, inform the group on the accounts rules and regulations and procedures etc.
This helps if in future any of the student wanted to be an Entreprenuer.
- Good entreprenuer group can also be funded to get the business going once they graduated.
u all need to understand that there are certain limitations to which these extra programmes can benefit students... given the way engineering modules are, u have so much to learn with so little time, they can't always make u do business plans and present. nowadays sciences are so developed, there's so much do learn. so there's alot of individual and theory work do be done...
plus not everyone is suitable to be an entrepreneur, some ppl are just better off as employees. it's very much dependent on ur character, ur exposure to risk taking, ur ability to take risks and many other factors.
seriously, if they want students like engine students to be more business minded, they have to reduce more modules and allow students to have time for those biz stuff.. but this is not an easy thing to do or even possible sometimes, just like what i said, sciences are so developed nowadays... there's so much more to learn. if u sacrifice on that, then what's the point of studying engineering? there's a reason why some ppl study engineering degree and then do a post grad biz degree or law degree or med degree... if like what u all say what students to do this do that, end of the day, they are jack of all trades, master of none...in a society where highly developed skills command high pay, and highly sought after, these students would be worse off!
if u want to be specialised and highly skilled, u need to do the extra stuff on ur own, like take up other courses outside or modules or get second degree. u can't expect the school to teach u everything -
True, the emphasis need to be on a more practical oriented delivery. However, the problem with existing institutional practice is the over emphasis of the how to skill and not on the why. Having grads who know how to without knowing why might not be a good thing in the long term. It somewhat reflects the society in that it is slowly becoming more apathetic. IMHO.
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Actually there are already inter-faculty interactions/cooperations on a much smaller scale. If you form groups and do projects together also counted right?Originally posted by zodi:On thinker's proposal... inter-faculty interactions/co-operations on a more leisurely or less stressful level should be fine. This is because our youths are still in the learning/discovery stage during their tertiary years. As such, it may become too much of a challenge or stress to be expected to produce RESULTS (be it monetary profit or academic performance).
For example, the technical inclined will do technical stuffs and arts students will write the report. Then maybe biz students will do the presentation and so on. -
If the engineering student likes entrepreneurship, or rather technopreneurship, he can jolly well sign up for NUS overseas college. Or get an overseas IA. You get to work full time in silicon valley (that's one place) and part time studying.Originally posted by leddy:if u want to be specialised and highly skilled, u need to do the extra stuff on ur own, like take up other courses outside or modules or get second degree. u can't expect the school to teach u everything
I believe he gain more this way than some attempt at coming out with a product in school, within 6 months.
That's the route NUS is taking, I suppose, by give more students the overseas experience. -
Yes, I am very much aware... coz I have fairly recent experience in local tertiary institutions...Originally posted by Icemoon:Actually there are already inter-faculty interactions/cooperations on a much smaller scale. If you form groups and do projects together also counted right?
For example, the technical inclined will do technical stuffs and arts students will write the report. Then maybe biz students will do the presentation and so on.
on one hand, it's fun at the beginning when our youths are enthusiastic about forming teams and discussing projects....
but on the other, when deadlines are near and expectations are high... the stress can get overbearing and instead of learning from each other... conflicts may arise and the whole team spirit is dampened... resulting in stereotype impressions of one another (eg, marketing is all talk no action, engineering is nerdy & not innovative etc)... even before they enter the workforce!
which is why i stress... the aim or academic objective of such cross-faculty projects should not be too high or difficult to achieve. -
wah .. you are local exchange student in the local Unis? haha ..Originally posted by zodi:Yes, I am very much aware... coz I have fairly recent experience in local tertiary institutions...