Death Penalty Appeal
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Found this from Amnesty International.
Prime Minister
LEE Hsien Loong
Prime Minister's Office
Istana, Orchard Rd
Singapore 238823
Dear Prime Minister,
I am appealing to your Cabinet to urgently reconsider granting clemency
to Australian man Van Tuong Nguyen who will otherwise be executed for
drug trafficking.
I believe the death penalty is the most cruel and inhumane punishment and
is an appalling abuse of the most fundamental human right - the right to
life. Van Tuong Nguyen is a young man with no prior criminal conviction
who does not deserve to pay the ultimate price for this mistake.
I understand under Singapore's Constitution, clemency can be granted in
rare circumstances and that Van Tuong Nguyen's case fits the criteria - I
believe he has always shown remorse, confessed at the earliest
opportunity and cooperated fully with the Singaporean authorities and the
Australian Federal Police.
I urge your government to show compassion and grant clemency to this
young man.
Yours sincerely, -
Ngyuen was just unlucky in a sense that the metal detectors beeped when he tried to pass through them. If he had cleared the detectors, nobody would have found out that he was carrying drugs. Instead of languishing in the Death Row of Changi prison today, he might be living under police protection in Victoria as a state witness in the trial of the crime bosses.
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why traffic drugs when he can go do something else.
afterall it was only 400g. how much are they paying him for the job?
silly way for a 25 yr old young man to lose his life.
hopefully for once our govt decides to offer clemency. afterall our new president has hardly ever given one. -
Yes, i totally agree, it's a waste of a young life, and Yes too, the biggest culprits, the ones most deserving of death, are the syndicate bosses, who are probably living it up in some villa somewhere ... does this state of things offend our sensibilitie and sense of justice ? ... yes, of course ....Originally posted by iveco:Ngyuen was just unlucky in a sense that the metal detectors beeped when he tried to pass through them. If he had cleared the detectors, nobody would have found out that he was carrying drugs. Instead of languishing in the Death Row of Changi prison today, he might be living under police protection in Victoria as a state witness in the trial of the crime bosses.
but a crime is a crime is a crime .... there is an explicit law ... and he flouted it .... announcements are made before touch down on most flights into Singapore ... the penalties are clear ... in anycase, in law, ignorance of the law is no defence.
sure, there were mitigating circumstances .... there always were .... if we take all of these into account no body would be deemed a criminal but a victim of fate and circumstances then ...
the Law may upset reason and logic, but reason and logic must never upset the law .... or else there will be chaos .... mandatory sentencing may not be the fairest thing to do ... but we need to have some benchmark to ensure equality in the justice administered, harsh though it might be .....
It's say that we have to snuff out a young life ... but i grieve only for the parents, not the man ..... the saddest part of any crime is that others will have to suffer the consequences along with the criminals too .... -
he is a very good looking young man.
maybe someone can start a petition and ask the govt to give clemency just for once. -
I received an email this morning requesting people to appeal to the officials of the Singapore govt. Apparently, he was from my uni and my wushu club. Sigh..
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Make no mistake, the transit area is Singapore territory,! It is a restricted area and is under Singapore law, not international law. Singapore is a hub for both air travel and cargo shipments by seas, thousands of ppl and millions of containers transit in Singapore (in bonded areas, also restricted areas under Singapore jurisdiction). All personnel and goods in transit areas and bonded areas have entered Singapore.
Is there a different objective for drug trafficking than to make quick and big money, at the expense of the addicts? Do the ends justify the means? Does it matter if the money is to clear brothers debt, pay motherÂ’s hospital bills?? Why not smuggle gold, cigarettes, dutiable items, like bring in rare species of animals and plants into Australia?
Unless they were framed or can prove that they carried the drugs unknowingly, drugs traffickers violate our laws and is punishable according to the law. If we need to see anyone killed, at the time of the crime, before we can arrest or convict drug traffickers, we must be blind to many who died of drug abuses in hospitals.
By now I believe the whole Australia, if not the whole world, know that there is this little red dot here that hang those who traffic drugs. Why do they choose to transit in Singapore, not Bangkok, not KL, not HK??? Somebody told me, when I used to travel frequently to Europe, the reason why many want to transit in Singapore, or fly SIA, it is because you get through customs relatively quicker than if you were to fly from Bangkok and KL. Believe it or not..
And where are the syndicate bosses now? Certainly not Singapore, more likely in Australia. Why donÂ’t the oz government work on these big culprits, and they will directly save the lives of many would be traffickers, and the drug addicts outside of australia.
Singapore law and judicial system is by no means perfect, but lets respect the ppl who are trying to do their job, they are civil servants, not PAP. The implication of a container loaded with chemicals contaminants or anything potentially can be used as a WMD, transit in Singapore and reach the USA, Japan or Australia, is far greater than the rights of some drug traffickers. -
a good reason why he should be pardoned for trafficking drugs?Originally posted by dragg:he is a very good looking young man.
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its true.
many a times when told that i came from singapore export the customs people just waved me on. -
SGdiehard,Originally posted by sgdiehard:Make no mistake, the transit area is Singapore territory,! It is a restricted area and is under Singapore law, not international law. Singapore is a hub for both air travel and cargo shipments by seas, thousands of ppl and millions of containers transit in Singapore (in bonded areas, also restricted areas under Singapore jurisdiction). All personnel and goods in transit areas and bonded areas have entered Singapore.
Is there a different objective for drug trafficking than to make quick and big money, at the expense of the addicts? Do the ends justify the means? Does it matter if the money is to clear brothers debt, pay motherÂ’s hospital bills?? Why not smuggle gold, cigarettes, dutiable items, like bring in rare species of animals and plants into Australia?
Unless they were framed or can prove that they carried the drugs unknowingly, drugs traffickers violate our laws and is punishable according to the law. If we need to see anyone killed, at the time of the crime, before we can arrest or convict drug traffickers, we must be blind to many who died of drug abuses in hospitals.
By now I believe the whole Australia, if not the whole world, know that there is this little red dot here that hang those who traffic drugs. Why do they choose to transit in Singapore, not Bangkok, not KL, not HK??? Somebody told me, when I used to travel frequently to Europe, the reason why many want to transit in Singapore, or fly SIA, it is because you get through customs relatively quicker than if you were to fly from Bangkok and KL. Believe it or not..
And where are the syndicate bosses now? Certainly not Singapore, more likely in Australia. Why donÂ’t the oz government work on these big culprits, and they will directly save the lives of many would be traffickers, and the drug addicts outside of australia.
Singapore law and judicial system is by no means perfect, but lets respect the ppl who are trying to do their job, they are civil servants, not PAP. The implication of a container loaded with chemicals contaminants or anything potentially can be used as a WMD, transit in Singapore and reach the USA, Japan or Australia, is far greater than the rights of some drug traffickers.
*sigh*
1) ok
2) Interesting; why don't you use that same question "does the ends justify the means?" against many of the govt's policies? Yes, it matters what teh money is used for, because that shows how cruel our presumed trafficker actually is. If he is desperate, well psychologists would tell you that desperate people do foolish things that they regret afterwards; tt's a medical condition, kinda anyway.
3) You apply a fallacy of composition here. There are many people dying in hospital beds out of drug abuses, yar, but how do you know that our particular drug trafficker sold drugs to these people? It is inaccurate to immediately assume that someone you catch at the airport is responsible for all those people's deaths. And the first line is rather chilling - why izzit that the people "caught" must prove that they were framed or carried the drug unknowingly? Why isn't it the responsibility of the prosecution to prove that the person caught carried the drug knowingly or was not framed? Or do you believe that suspected drug-traffickers are guilty until they prove themselves innocent?
And IMHO, go read AI and you will find a number of cases in which people who carried drugs unknowingly (and in one case, a mentally-disabled honkee) were still sentenced to the death penalty. I guess that gives Govt A1 for equality in administering punishment but U for fairness of administered punishment.
4)
Now you commit a fallacy of generalization. Australia does not choose to transit drugs in Singapore. One particular Australian does not represent the government of Australia pleading for clemency, and certainly NOT the entire Aussie population.
5) Current Affairs check: the major drug syndicates are probably harboured in Myanmar, NK and Afghanistan; those 3 countries are the world's largest producers of opium, and hence heroin.
6) A brilliant fallacy of association!!! 
Heroin and Marijuana are in a totally different league from Anthrax or any other biological or chemical pollutant, and hence both groups of stuff should not be treated as equals. Besides, friend, we have an extensive and burgeoning bureaucracy, even not counting GLCs. There are many branches of specialized civil servants. The ISD officials working on preventing the entry of hazardous substances and biological weapons do not work with low-level drug-trafficking cases. Drug-trafficking is handled by the CNB and CID, separate statuory boards from the ISD.
the (abolitionist) pikamaster -
hmm....what the world would become if eveybody is free to do anything just because he is desparate. By then, I believe the whole world is sick.Originally posted by pikamaster:2) Interesting; why don't you use that same question "does the ends justify the means?" against many of the govt's policies? Yes, it matters what teh money is used for, because that shows how cruel our presumed trafficker actually is. If he is desperate, well psychologists would tell you that desperate people do foolish things that they regret afterwards; tt's a medical condition, kinda anyway.
Is he a "presumed" trafficker or is he a convicted "trafficker"? period.
why is there a need to catch someone and assume that he or she is responsible for the drug abuses?? hundreds of thousands of visitors went through the airport eveyday why he was caught?Originally posted by pikamaster:3) You apply a fallacy of composition here. There are many people dying in hospital beds out of drug abuses, yar, but how do you know that our particular drug trafficker sold drugs to these people? It is inaccurate to immediately assume that someone you catch at the airport is responsible for all those people's deaths.
No time to argue for the sake of argument.
When you were caught naked with your neighbours wife on her bed, are her hushand and your wife supposed to prove that you were indeed having an affair or is it your responsibility to prove your innocence? you just happen to drop in to see her after a shower, andOriginally posted by pikamaster:And the first line is rather chilling - why izzit that the people "caught" must prove that they were framed or carried the drug unknowingly? Why isn't it the responsibility of the prosecution to prove that the person caught carried the drug knowingly or was not framed? Or do you believe that suspected drug-traffickers are guilty until they prove themselves innocent? 
forgot your pants.
I sure hope the government of Australia are not represented by some drug traffickers.Originally posted by pikamaster:4) Now you commit a fallacy of generalization. Australia does not choose to transit drugs in Singapore. One particular Australian does not represent the government of Australia pleading for clemency, and certainly NOT the entire Aussie population.
Severe penalty for drug offences in the region is not new but I fail to understand why every now and then the oz government have to plead for their citizens committing the offence, in singapore, in bali, penang....is it ignorance or is it sheer arrogance that they think the laws do not apply to them.
your common sense fails you or your arrogance blind you. The drug lords in myanmar and afganistan probably never leave their countries in their life. In every country where there are drugs peddled on the streets, there are local syndicates. The big money is made down stream!Originally posted by pikamaster:5) Current Affairs check: the major drug syndicates are probably harboured in Myanmar, NK and Afghanistan; those 3 countries are the world's largest producers of opium, and hence heroin.
How does NK come in? theory of the axis of evils.
Terrorists kill for their ideologies and religions, abeit wicked or crooked; drug traffickers kill for money. Terrorists are prepared to give up their lives, drug traffickers are afraid to die. They are indeed not the same. The only equals between them is that they kill indiscriminately.Originally posted by pikamaster:6) A brilliant fallacy of association!!! Heroin and Marijuana are in a totally different league from Anthrax or any other biological or chemical pollutant, and hence both groups of stuff should not be treated as equals. .
hmm....you really think that i thought the guy was accidentally caught by officials looking for hazardous materials and weapons?Originally posted by pikamaster:Besides, friend, we have an extensive and burgeoning bureaucracy, even not counting GLCs. There are many branches of specialized civil servants. The ISD officials working on preventing the entry of hazardous substances and biological weapons do not work with low-level drug-trafficking cases. Drug-trafficking is handled by the CNB and CID, separate statuory boards from the ISD.
There are laws here in Singapore, it is not perfect and it certainly cannot and does not please everybody, but Foreigners are welcomed in singapore only if they respect us, including our laws. Stay in australia if they want the australian law.
Suggest "would be" drug traffickers changed line and start smuggling plants and rare animals into australia. anything not available there must worth a lot of money. Smuggling plants and animals sure wont kill anybody. -
Then the law must be changed.Originally posted by Kurs:Of course no person is guilty on all charges upon arrest. But the law is written such that possession of drugs is deemed to be trafficking. -
Sgdiehard,
1) Rmb, I'm only arguing agaisnt the Death penalty, not against criminal punishment. i.e.: I'm saying that teh guy should be given a lighter sentence if he had a genuine altruistic motive in committing the crime. That deosn't excuse the fact that teh crime is a crime though. period.
2) By our laws, he is a "presumed" trafficker. period.
3) He was caught because he possessed a large amount of drugs, and the large amount of drugs in his possession could have been due to him being a serious abuser himself. IMHO, I never argue for the sake of argument.:X
4) Fallacy of the false analogy. (n FYI, bear in mind you're talking to a teenager.) In a case of an affair, the nudeness is proof enough, not to mention the bed-sharing. A more accurate analogy would be the wife accusing her husband of an affair just because it happens that he is carrying some roses on valentine's day that came from the neighbour's wife. As you would realize, this isn't very hard evidence at all.
5) They feel the need to stand up for their own citizens - go google for the Australian Government's official release. They are pleading for their own citizens not because they think that the laws of other coutnries do not apply to their nationals, but because the Australian Government has a strong ideological stand agaisnt the death penalty. Of course, die-hards like you might not be able to understand properly the phrase "ideological stand".
6) My common sense and arrogance have not blinded me. Yours has blinded yourself. The drug lords in Myanmar and Afghanistan do not leave their countries just like Osama does not leave wherever he is hiding now. They run international syndicates. By logic, you can't just have local syndicates, since they need to be tied to suppliers. For a smuggling ring to be effective, it needs to be at least on the regional scale i.e. smuggling drugs from a drug-producing country (e.g Myanmar) to a non-drug-producing country (e.g. M'sia or Singapore).
7) Nope, it's not a theory. It was on the news.
8 ) Another fallacy of association. Drug traffickers do not kill. They merely sell drugs. The drug-addicts who consume exorbitant amounts of drugs kill themselves, call it a form of second-degree suicide or "manslaughter suicide" (ya, i coined the term). Drug traffickers are not serial killers. They are like any other door-todoor or street-to-street salesmen, it's just that their merchandise is undesirable. They are like the tobacco companies. Smoking is bad for your health, but if you smoke, you can't blame the tobacco corporations for making you smoke. You have to blame yourself.
9) No.
10) Technichally, this para is irrelevant to the para you're making reference to, but anyway...
I don't see any form of disrespect that Foreigners have shown us. You seem to be applying the MIW's logic - if you speak out against our policies, youa re disrespecting us. (IMHO, that's fallacy of false-cause.)
11) Now, you're the one disrespecting Australian law. Smuggling plants and animals into Australia might destroy Australian crops and livestock, because the foreign plants may have germs and bacteria that they are immune against, but which the Australian organisms have not adapted to. And of course, crops and livestock are a food-source. But even then, it's just the items which will be siezed; the smuggler will not be jailed at all. S/he may be fined, but not jailed or caned, and certainly not hanged.
the (dissappointed) pikamaster -
Don't you detect double-standards and hypocrisy in this policy?Originally posted by Kurs:Of course no person is guilty on all charges upon arrest. But the law is written such that possession of drugs is deemed to be trafficking. -
i have the impression that death penalty for drug trafficking is erected only to save trouble (long jail term will increase cost) and elevate our international status than to protect the people.
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There used to be a multi-page discussion on the death penalty in sgforums. Do a search. -
pikamaster,
1) We discussed Death penalty before. My position remains that a person who is charged for committing a crime, must be given a chance and the necessary assistance to defend himself in a fair and just court trial, and if he were found guilty as charged, and if his further appeals to higher court or the president of Singapore fail, he will have to be punished accordingly. Period.
Whether the punishment should be death by hanging, life imprisonment, cane or do social work, is not the point for discussion now. I am in no position to discuss if 400kg or heroin is life imprisonment, 401 kg then is death, 1 kg of marijuana is 10 yrsÂ…..
2) The second point, especially in the case of drug trafficking, is whether sufficient warning or notices against such offences was given and received. I would be more sympathetic to those who do not read or understand English and those who have not heard of Singapore before the crime was committed. Do the OZs qualify here?
A person found in possession of drug, in quantity way in excess for personal consumption is a “presumed” trafficker. Did the court subsequently bring him to trial, give a fair chance to explain, gave necessary legal assistance, his “illness” or “madness” and motive taken in consideration, before convicting him? Once convicted, he is a convicted trafficker, no more assumption. period.
3) Is he a drug abuser himself?? Did he say that? or is it your assumption?
4) YouÂ’re a teenager? HmmÂ….uncle tell you hor, donÂ’t mess around with drugs, when ppl ask you to help carry something on plane, donÂ’t just listen ok.
5) Was the teh guy found with 400 kg of panadol, or 400 bottles of cough mixture? or simply talcon powder? What hard evidence do you need?
6) Ya, I know, many ppl got their ideological stand, the communists, the religious fanatics all have their ideological stand. I have only one question “ what good does your ideological stand bring to our ppl? Who are you protecting?” Whatever it is, your ideology cannot be above our law, for the crime was committed in singapore, period.
7) So it was the Burmese drug lords who run the local syndicates in the streets of Australian cities from the mountains in Myanmar?
If there is no demand, there is no supply; if there is no profits, there is no supply chain; Why are the drugs not smuggled directly from a drug-producing country to a drug consuming country (e.g. Australia), and why does it have to transit through a country like singapore, that hang drug traffickers? What is your logic? Ya, osama does not kill, he only trains the bombers and he supplies the bombs, and the merchandise just happen to be undesirable.!!! Is smoking the same as drug abuses?? Drug traffickers are door to door or street- to- street salesmen, working for the Burmese drug lords? If this is what you do for your pocket money during vacation, you should be making big money but your parents will be very sad.
I do not claim to have high moral standard but drug abuse is a definite NO for me and my children and I will SHOOT the drug peddlers who try to sell drug to my children. You will gain better respect if you go sell your body for money, at least you donÂ’t harm others. -
It is the individual's choice whether he wants to inject himself with heroin or pump tar into his lungs.
If all of us were to boycott drugs and cigarettes, the opium growers and tobacco farmers would be driven out of business. Not to mention the drug laboratories and cigarette manufacturers. -
You see, this topic has no end.
Perhaps much like a consolation, our government should consider a more humane way of killing a murder or drug convict; such as by way of Lethal Injection.
Lethal Injection is more humane in that the condemned person is put under by heavy sedation, and then further put into a deep sleep (similar to surgery) and then lethal drugs are injected to stop function of all major organs, including the heart.
This is far better than hanging. Hanging means the individual is weighted down with sandbags tied to his ankles, so that when the trapdoor opens, the force of gravity and collective weight causes his neck to break, afterwhich the broken neck shall cause suffocation as the bone in his neck protrudes against his windpipe. It's HELLISH! This involves quite a lengthy death dance as he twitches and wriggles in the air. Not to mention the bulging eyeballs and protruding tongue.
Death by Lethal Injection is more humane. I implore our governmen; our Law may be strict and umbending, but please at least let it be HUMANE!!! -
Lethal injection still KILLS. At the end of the day, the executuioner still has blood dripping from his hands. In the eyes of the Goddess, he is still considered GUILTY of committing a mortal sin.Originally posted by ShutterBug:You see, this topic has no end.
Perhaps much like a consolation, our government should consider a more humane way of killing a murder or drug convict; such as by way of Lethal Injection.
Lethal Injection is more humane in that the condemned person is put under by heavy sedation, and then further put into a deep sleep (similar to surgery) and then lethal drugs are injected to stop function of all major organs, including the heart.
This is far better than hanging. Hanging means the individual is weighted down with sandbags tied to his ankles, so that when the trapdoor opens, the force of gravity and collective weight causes his neck to break, afterwhich the broken neck shall cause suffocation as the bone in his neck protrudes against his windpipe. It's HELLISH! This involves quite a lengthy death dance as he twitches and wriggles in the air. Not to mention the bulging eyeballs and protruding tongue.
Death by Lethal Injection is more humane. I implore our governmen; our Law may be strict and umbending, but please at least let it be HUMANE!!! -
Err, i wasn't touching on religion or right and wrong.
We're basically talking about LAW. Singapore's LAW, isn't something we can all grumble about and make it change. Killing anyone, for any reason, has never been a RIGHT thing to do for ANYONE. This I agree. But since this is State Law, Death Sentence is mandated for Drug related crimes and Murder, I move that it be made more HUMANE. Hanging is BRUTAL. And so is decapitation in some countries. -
You see, this thing about DEATH. It's so mysterious.
NOBODY knows how it's really like - dying. Or after one has died. It's an UNKOWN to all alive! This is why the prospect of dying, and the pain or suffering related to it, is such a major lifetime contemplation.
Lets say, death has been sucessfully studied. Someone or a group of people have successfully died for research and resucitated repeatedly without failure to come back to life, then death will lose it's mystery. People will begin to know what to expect, and fear of death perhaps, will have been diminished.
Us humans, we generally fear the unknown.
But on the other hand, if death is made common knowledge, and fear of death is diminished, I can imagine the sudden increase in murders and drug trafficking! However, some people are NOT afraid of death or dying; they are the deranged (or madmen), the spirituals, and of course, the Terrorists. -
Is drug addiction an "individual's choice"? why are certain drugs illegal? are drugs addiction not more serious, lethal than alcohol or cigarettes addiction? who are the bad guys and who are the innocent guys in this game? we can discuss this till cows come home, but we are not likely to get any answer or come to any conclusion.Originally posted by iveco:It is the individual's choice whether he wants to inject himself with heroin or pump tar into his lungs.
If all of us were to boycott drugs and cigarettes, the opium growers and tobacco farmers would be driven out of business. Not to mention the drug laboratories and cigarette manufacturers.
You can even discuss "if a doctor prescribe a drug (or poison) that temporary relieve the pain for the patient but subsequently kill him, would the doctor be responsible for his death?"
These issues involved moral, values that come with the culture, traditions and religions of the society. Individuals are entitled to voice their opinion but unless such opinions reflect the society in general, any discussion remains personal opinion.
Shutterbug is right, we are talking about LAW. Singapore has been known to have many funny laws, first it was fine for littering, then it was ban of chewing gum, then fine for not flushing toilets, and there was canning for vandalism. Ridiculous those may be, they serve the purposes. Death penalty is more serious as it involved taking lives, but the debate can continue, the lives of those convicted of serious crime vs those who would be savedÂ…Â…no end. The bottom line is, whether it is ridiculous or not, we need to respect them, till they were changed.
My interest is whether our law is transparent and if law enforcement is just and fair, I have no time to fight for the rights of criminals. Once convicted, a criminal loses his basic human right, his freedom. -
Any law deemed unrepresentative of the informed population should be up for debate and change.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Err, i wasn't touching on religion or right and wrong.
We're basically talking about LAW. Singapore's LAW, isn't something we can all grumble about and make it change. Killing anyone, for any reason, has never been a RIGHT thing to do for ANYONE. This I agree. But since this is State Law, Death Sentence is mandated for Drug related crimes and Murder, I move that it be made more HUMANE. Hanging is BRUTAL. And so is decapitation in some countries.
After all, what is the law but a set of rules and regulations as agreed upon by the majority.The "crime" in SG seems to be the act of informing people about the barbaric nature of the death penalty.If that is not about taking a legal issue out into the political sphere where it clearly doesn't belong, then i don't know what is.
Ever wonder why they never publicise those campaigns against the death penalty?Politics.Petty politics.
Does anyone here think it should be a crime to campaign for changes in laws? -
if Lee Hsein Loong or the president dun listen and continue wif the excution then the australian govt should sent agents to assasinate the president or LHL...Originally posted by dragg:australia will continue to appeal for clemency on behalf of one of its citizen sentenced to death for trafficking 400g of heroin.
they have not given up yet after repeated rejections by our government.