Death Penalty Appeal
-
Yes. So the more this law served to remind him to use his own hands and limbs to earn an honest living, not to use them for evil deeds.Originally posted by iveco:THe execution of one mule means nothing to the drug lords. THey can always find another despo to replace him[/quote]
[quote]Originally posted by pikamaster:
uh-huh. I believe that is my point...
Thx for summarizing it up for me, though
-
Many Singaporeans choose to see A.But when B portrays A as C, they have a problem finding the linkages because throughout the years,the image of A has been uplifted as the truth and in the national interest and B is an outsider.However, C cannot be denied fully as another representation of A, which many who do not read from B, might never realise.
Lenses come in many different shades you know. -
the UN is addressing the mandatory portion of the statute..hmm.
----------
UN Official Urges Singapore Not To Execute Australian
SINGAPORE (AP)--A United Nations human rights expert urged the Singapore government not to hang a convicted Australian heroin trafficker, saying the execution violated international legal standards.
Singapore has turned down clemency requests from Australia and the Roman Catholic Church for Nguyen Tuong Van, who received a mandatory death sentence after being caught with 396 grams of heroin at the city-state's Changi Airport in 2002.
Singapore's government says the death penalty is a deterrent against serious crimes such as murder and firearm use, and that it helps keep crime and drug abuse rates low.
Philip Alston, special rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions for the U.N. Commission on Human Rights, said the city-state's use of a mandatory death sentence for certain drug trafficking convictions was inappropriate.
"Making such a penalty mandatory - thereby eliminating the discretion of the court - makes it impossible to take into account mitigating or extenuating circumstances and eliminates any individual determination of an appropriate sentence in a particular case," Alston said in a statement dated Tuesday.
"The adoption of such a black and white approach is entirely inappropriate where the life of the accused is at stake," Alston said. "Once the sentence has been carried out it is irreversible."
Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said Tuesday he met his Singaporean counterpart, George Yeo, on the sidelines of ministerial meetings of the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation forum in Busan, South Korea. Downer said he urged Singapore to reconsider the planned execution, but was told the decision was irreversible.
Nguyen, an ethnic Vietnamese, is expected to go to the gallows within a month.
Singaporean lawyer M. Ravi, who has campaigned to save Nguyen's life, said last week he had lodged a complaint with Alston against the Singapore government in a bid to halt the execution.
-Edited by Paul Baylis
(END) Dow Jones Newswires
11-15-052207ET
Copyright (c) 2005 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20051115\ACQDJON200511152207DOWJONESDJONLINE001087.htm&selected=9999&selecteddisplaysymbol=9999&StoryTargetFrame=_top&mkt=WORLD&chk=unchecked&lang=&link=&headlinereturnpage=http://www.international.na -
quoting names would be too personal, unless your view does not represent that of the "abolitionist", then whatever happen to the self proclaimed "the (still abolitionist) pikamaster"?Originally posted by pikamaster:sgdiehard,
I have a name, or at least a pseudonym. If you're quoting me, please remember it is me, and not some anonymous "abolitionist".
the (unhappy) pikamaster
P.S.: And refresh my memory as to who Anthony Ler is... don't rmb he was in the Ram Tiwary case??
If that is not the view of the abolitionist, I quoted the wrong thing then. sorry.
-
He is one dead amigo. This muchacho is a goner dude.. To keep SG clean n free... the government has to do what its gotta do. The Law is the law. U are caught with the amount stated that will bring u to the gallows , u go to the gallows. U give way once.. u will be seeing more of these appeals. The law has to be black n white in these circumstances or those who have money or political power can sway the judicial system and hence the judicial system will be flawed and the loop holes exploited.
Some say the drug lords benefit and the little fishes gets the chair, but that is the way. That is what the LAW is there. Imagine he gets freed, the drug lords will just keep on blackmailing , or threatening n u have all these would-be traffickers getting appeals and the entire system in SG pretty much shoved at thier face n have to eat back thier vomit. Anyways i still think he is a dead man... i feel him.. but thats the way it has to be.
-
SG government listen?
Does SG government even listen to it's own people?
what makes you think that it will even listen to UN/Australia? -
Even the most hard-core retentionist may not even bear to witness an execution being carried out.
-
This I agree.Originally posted by iveco:Even the most hard-core retentionist may not even bear to witness an execution being carried out. -
He broke the law. Sorry.Originally posted by iveco:Even the most hard-core retentionist may not even bear to witness an execution being carried out. -
What if your own relative were in his position?Originally posted by TooFree:He broke the law. Sorry. -
They know the law. Sorry.Originally posted by iveco:What if your own relative were in his position? -
pikamasterOriginally posted by pikamaster:pearlie27,
I am willing to hear both sides of an issue, but I don't like it when people look down on me. Really don't like it.
Remember, just because you are older doesn't necessarily mean that you know more than I do.
1) I agree with the statement, but I don't get what you're replying to. To the section of my post you quoted, the statement is irrelevant.
2) In Singapore, there are 3 groups of people: Those for the DP at all costs, Those against the DP at all costs (like me) and those against the DP in specific cases because they feel that those cases were judged unfairly. Huang Na was a rather emotional issue for Singaporeans, if you remember. So many people sent letters of condolences and teddy bears and hello kitty dolls etc. to ehr grieving family. Hence, I would admit that Singaporeans wouldn't be able to think clearly about the Death Penalty -> most probably just had the heart for vengeance. So those who protest about Took's conviction (if any) are those who beleive that he was framed. In Ngyuen's case however, there is more scope since Singaporeans don't have (much) personal emotional attachment with him, so it is most likely that those people against his conviction are those most strongly against the DP at any cost.
3) I know that. You don't need to "enlighten" me.
4) I know the meaning of brainwash. I just was seeking your opinion of the word, that's all.
the (sad) pikamaster
oops, have i hurt your feelings? my apologies then.
i never mean to slight you on your age but just to tell you that the adult world is very complex. it is not uncommon to see the adult keep changing his/her position on a certain issue. An example is MM Lee's view on casino.
Sam Leong of sammyboy who migrated to Australia is another example. He was initially very proud of the Aussie anti death penalty stand. But 15 years later, he (and according to him many Aussies) actually wish that there is death penalty in Australia.
i'm not saying whether that is right or wrong but merely stating the complexity of human behaviour and thinking.
i wasn't "enlightening" you, just reminding you. Your statement that the Aussie govt acting the wishes of the Aussies and Howard acting for his party etc does give me the impression of a black and white view.
cheers
pearlie27 -
I dare Leong and his friends to witness an execution being carried out. Hope they have the stomach for it.Originally posted by pearlie27:Sam Leong of sammyboy who migrated to Australia is another example. He was initially very proud of the Aussie anti death penalty stand. But 15 years later, he (and according to him many Aussies) actually wish that there is death penalty in Australia. -
sigh....in reality the world does not work that way. Nobody would bear to witness a person being shot but that does not mean that soldiers will not shoot to defend their country, police would not shoot to prevent a terrorist from killing innocents.Originally posted by iveco:Even the most hard-core retentionist may not even bear to witness an execution being carried out.
Stretching a little, I bet you have not seen a live chicken or a pig being slaughtered, but do you eat chicken or pork?? -
Twisting your argument won't get you anywhere, but you've said your piece and he's said his piece.Originally posted by sgdiehard:sigh....in reality the world does not work that way. Nobody would bear to witness a person being shot but that does not mean that soldiers will not shoot to defend their country, police would not shoot to prevent a terrorist from killing innocents.
Stretching a little, I bet you have not seen a live chicken or a pig being slaughtered, but do you eat chicken or pork?? -
X 2Originally posted by Global Freedom Solutions:Twisting your argument won't get you anywhere, but you've said your piece and he's said his piece. -
then why is my piece a twist of argument?Originally posted by Global Freedom Solutions:Twisting your argument won't get you anywhere, but you've said your piece and he's said his piece.
no answer isit? always learn to see the other point of view!
have a good day. -
Singapore maintains capital punishment as sovereign right
I agree that it is up to the Singapore government to abolish capital punishment. However, the ordinary citizens should have their say. A referendum on this issue at the next GE is absolutely necessary.
By May Wong, Channel NewsAsia
SINGAPORE : Singapore maintains it is a country's sovereign right to decide whether to have capital punishment within its criminal justice system.
A Foreign Affairs Ministry spokesperson was responding to media queries on the press statement issued by a UN human rights expert.
Philip Alston had said that the execution of Nguyen Tuong Van, a convicted Australian drug trafficker, violated international legal standards.
"Mr Nguyen was tried and convicted in an entirely open, fair and transparent manner, according to due process of law, as has been acknowledged by the Australian Government," the spokesperson said in a statement.
Therefore, the spokesperson said, this case doesn't fall within Mr Alston's mandate.
The ministry said it regrets that Mr Alston has attempted to mislead the public.
It said Singapore had previously protested Mr Alston's abuse of his office and will continue to do so as necessary. - CNA /ct -
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200511/s1509080.htm
Singapore sets Nguyen execution date
The family of convicted drug trafficker Van Nguyen, who is on death row in Singapore, has received confirmation he will be executed on December 2.
Prime Minister says he is "very disappointed" that he was not told that Singapore had made a decision on the date it would execute Nguyen.
Nguyen's mother received the letter this afternoon, dated yesterday.
The letter states Nguyen can have family visits from three days prior to his execution.
Prime Minister John Howard met with his Singaporean counterpart on the sideline at the APEC summit in South Korea in another attempt to avert the execution.
Mr Howard says he was not told about the execution date when he met with Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.
"I'm very disappointed I was not told. Very disappointed," he said.
Mr Howard says there is now no hope Singapore will change its decision.
He says he again pressed Singapore to reconsider its decision to execute Nguyen, saying there are circumstances that warrant the death penalty not being imposed.
Mr Howard revealed it was the fourth time he had spoken to Mr Lee about the matter and says he met the condemned man's mother in Sydney last week.
Mr Howard said he personally felt great sadness for Nguyen's mother's suffering.
He said Nguyen's fate should be a warning to any Australian contemplating drug crime in Asia.
Speaking after the meeting, Mr Lee said he understood Mr Howard's concerns but said the decision would not be reversed.
"It's a decision which we have to take, and which we have to answer for," Mr Lee said.
Mr Lasry will now fly to Singapore to be with his client.
Lobbying continues
Mr Lasry says the situation now looks extremely desperate for his client but he says Australians should continue lobbying the Singaporean Government.
"Tomorrow at 10 o'clock at the state library we'll be displaying the reach out response, the massive response we've had from people in relation to that," he said.
"It'll be launched by [Victorian] Attorney-General Rob Hulls and people will have opportunity to express their opposition to this execution."
Amnesty Amnesty's Tim Goodwin is urging Australians to send SMS messages to the Singaporean Government.
"We're literally engaged in a race against time now," he said.
Mr Goodwin is not optimistic, saying in 420 execution orders handed down by the Singapore Government since 1991, not one has been overturned.
Jesuit priest and social justice campaigner father Peter Norden says he will continue to support Nguyen and his family.
"The Pope has already approached the Singapore Government, we received confirmation of that from Rome in the last few days, but it seems that none of these approaches have been enough to change the heart of the Singapore Government," he said.
The 25-year-old Melbourne man was arrested in Singapore in 2002 with 400 grams of heroin while in transit between Cambodia and Australia. -
If Singapore wants to maintain better relations with its own citizens and outside world, it should balance its criminal and civil laws and regulations so as to be in greater harmony with all the people's expectations and the world as a whole.
Penalties against offences should be more befitting the seriousness of offences based on effectiveness of punishment as against assumptions of deterrence.
If it carries its own isolationist laws and regulations it may have to keep correcting any injustices in punishments with one set of severe laws against the citizens and another set being more liberal or subjected to international adjustments among countries. For whatever reasons our government adopts more severe punishments like death penalty against drug trafficking etc, it will still be unjust to punish human beings unequally with own citizens being more severely punished whereas foreigners subjected to appeal and interventions by outside sovereignty due to appeal by their respective governments.
Our government needs to overhaul its harsh laws of the past where our citizens are more severely punished or controlled where others are less severely treated.
There is a need for government to consider maintaining of punishments or laws in greater harmony and balance, with people's expectations and not based on its own judgmental processes or assumptions of the past.
Otherwise our laws will become increasingly at odds with the citizens and the rest of the world.
The following harsh laws should be reviewed:-
(1) ISA, (limits its applications only to treason; and prevent its abuse by government executives against dissidents or political threats)
(2) Sedition Act (limits its application to specific and defined cases of seditions and prevents its use for political control purposes)
(3) GRC laws and increased election deposits,
(4) Press licensing act and regulations,
(5) Laws of defamation (limits its application to civil suits and politically inspired suits)
(6) Constitutions (to assure basic freedoms of speech and expressions and political rights of participation in election without any coercions or suppressions or persecutions) -
Wait Wait Wait...
Who is Australia to control our law?
Even so, it is still us to decide whether to abloish capital punishments or not -
Exactly my sentiments. Only our Government can decide when to hold a referendum on capital punishment, and I say the sooner the better.Originally posted by sbst275:Wait Wait Wait...
Who is Australia to control our law?
Even so, it is still us to decide whether to abloish capital punishments or not -
I'll be really interested to find out how Singaporeans will respond to such a referendum...Originally posted by iveco:Exactly my sentiments. Only our Government can decide when to hold a referendum on capital punishment, and I say the sooner the better.
I've a feeling that most Singaporeans just can't be bothered with whether or not we have the death penalty. -
I will be the first to vote it out.Originally posted by cornyfish2000:I'll be really interested to find out how Singaporeans will respond to such a referendum...
I've a feeling that most Singaporeans just can't be bothered with whether or not we have the death penalty. -
This year,all the murder cases involving Indonesian or Philipino maids were amended to manslaughter which doesn't carry death penalty.Possibley the govt was afraid hanging those murderers would affect realtionsips with these 2 countries.Those actions were of course not the law run its course.
However,I can understand the govt had to resort to such action dureto national interest.For Nguyen case, there has not been much pressure from Austrialia.He didn't kill anyone.PM,is it to say govt can't act humanely by granting clemency (which is according to law) because there is little pressure form Austialia?It seems to me: reasons don't work,only pressure works.