Perhaps another stealth ship..... or the arsernal ships like the DDG the USN is trying to build... ???Originally posted by Shotgun:My analysis is that, there will be further vessels, as well as modifications that will allow an interlinked surface task force to run a singular aegis shield over it.
Agreed. You made the point well, but RSN hasn't display any serious solution to these threats - or perhaps they think that RSN will never come to the point of having to dealt with Sunburns or the Exocets.
I disagree with the last point that the RSN does not face threats from ASMs. Anti Ship missile technology is perhaps one of the most proliferated technology now. The Chinese have acquired Sunburn missiles, Indonesians have more exocets now just to name a few. Missile threats are very real especially in this particular region.
Singapore getting a blue water navy?!? More like a green-water one, once we get our frigates. Definitely NOT a blue-water(ocean) capable navy.Originally posted by Joe Black:Agreed. You made the point well, but RSN hasn't display any serious solution to these threats - or perhaps they think that RSN will never come to the point of having to dealt with Sunburns or the Exocets.
Singapore Naval doctrine based on RSAF jets doing significant damages to the enemy fleet. Thus, the Exocets armed Super Puma, the Harpoons armed Fokker 50, the Harpoons and Mavericks armed Vipers, etc. The Navy ships are just used for escorts and backup options.
If they are that serious, we would have seen serious consideration in installing point-defence systems like the CIWS and RAMs on MCVs and LST/LPDs.
Singapore getting a blue water navy?!? More like a green-water one, once we get our frigates. Definitely NOT a blue-water(ocean) capable navy.Originally posted by Joe Black:Agreed. You made the point well, but RSN hasn't display any serious solution to these threats - or perhaps they think that RSN will never come to the point of having to dealt with Sunburns or the Exocets.
Singapore Naval doctrine based on RSAF jets doing significant damages to the enemy fleet. Thus, the Exocets armed Super Puma, the Harpoons armed Fokker 50, the Harpoons and Mavericks armed Vipers, etc. The Navy ships are just used for escorts and backup options.
If they are that serious, we would have seen serious consideration in installing point-defence systems like the CIWS and RAMs on MCVs and LST/LPDs.
Yes... nice to have, but has RSN got the money to fund such acquistion (money money money.... need some money...Originally posted by Shotgun:True, using the Sunburn, even on the Lafayette would be massive overkill. But don't forget we are not the only operators of Harpoons in the region. Also, potential sales of Su-30MkMs to Malaysia and indonesia could also include other ASM such as KH-31A Keglers and KH-35 Kryptons. They have a 50km and 130km range respectively. Su-30s can easily arm up to 6 of these missiles.
Not forgetting that certain amounts of our equipment being based overseas, our LSTs would have to brave through hostile waters and airspace to rush them back for operations. Which is why I am suggesting that a multi-component aegis system is being devised for such a mission. It will not be a blue water navy, but one that can safely guarantee passage when friendly air support is not available.
With our Hawkeyes, getting AEGIS would be redundant, or at least, not a prudent way of spending our money. What is more important would be getting a good tactical information distribution system such that a composite air-picture can be built and be received by all combatants, surface or air (something like the US Navy's soon to be introduced Cooperative Engagement Capability, now THAT's something to drool about!!)Originally posted by Joe Black:Yes... nice to have, but has RSN got the money to fund such acquistion (money money money.... need some money...) - furthermore, AEGIS is politically sensitive piece of hardware.... see how the Chinese threaten their neighbour Taiwanese when the Yanks proposed to sell the AEGIS destoryer to them????
Perhaps the Aussie should get the AEGIS destoryers and get them to work with RSN LaFayatte and MCVs in a cooperative engagement environment which the USN is developing now....hee hee....
dream dream dream....
Maybe not now that the recession may last 5 years.... See ST news today....Originally posted by Shotgun:Singapore will definitely have money to fund anything she feels is required.
Hey shotgun, actually RSAF Hawkeyes have the ability to use secure links to do mid-course update to the Harpoons fired from the navy ships. Had RSAF gone with the Link-16 update, they could essentially pass secure data to the Vipers. However, RSAF have gone to purchase an Israeli made (was it IAI or Rafael) secure link, and in the process pissed the Americans/Pentagon who gone through great length to get the sales approved in the congress.Originally posted by Shotgun:Our hawkeyes can cover up to so far. Also, hawkeyes can't guide and engage multiple inbound missiles. Hawkeyes are basically AWACs, they aren't the kind of radar that locks on to targets for interception. Why do you think the USN has hawkeyes and aegis ships together?
I believe some Dutch, German, British and Swedish radars already provided limited multiple engagement capabilities. They haven't reached the muturity as the AEGIS, but I believe they should suffice for RSN requirements... furthermore, AEGIS is built to handle abti-ballistic missiles defence as well, which neither RSN or Singapore as a whole is currently facing... and the AEGIS is also a very very very political sensitive piece of hardware. We don't want the Malaysians (translates to Mahathir) with green eyes accussing Singapore of preparing to wage wars against them rite... hee heeOriginally posted by Shotgun:What I meant by engaging targets, I meant vampires. Inbound missiles that current RSN ship systems are unable to handle. Missiles may fly in amounts and ways that can completely overwhelm RSN's current naval air defense systems.
Considering that our corvettes will be operating under air-cover, it would be lucky if they managed to get a shot off from the bugs they have. As for exocets launched from their ships.... I really do believe the BARAK missile with the radar system on our corvettes can handle the threat.Originally posted by Shotgun:What I meant by engaging targets, I meant vampires. Inbound missiles that current RSN ship systems are unable to handle. Missiles may fly in amounts and ways that can completely overwhelm RSN's current naval air defense systems.
& the whole arm force only consist of 5000 men, including the Gurkas! Geez, just a small force for such a rich countryOriginally posted by Patriotic Tim:Does you guys know that the Royal Brunei Air Force does not have any fighter in its inventory, only helicopters and propellor-driven PC-7 trainers! Anyone know what planes the JSDAF operates? i know nothing about them.
when RSAF first bought the hawkeye... it was no less sensitive...Originally posted by Joe Black:I believe some Dutch, German, British and Swedish radars already provided limited multiple engagement capabilities. They haven't reached the muturity as the AEGIS, but I believe they should suffice for RSN requirements... furthermore, AEGIS is built to handle abti-ballistic missiles defence as well, which neither RSN or Singapore as a whole is currently facing... and the AEGIS is also a very very very political sensitive piece of hardware. We don't want the Malaysians (translates to Mahathir) with green eyes accussing Singapore of preparing to wage wars against them rite... hee hee
Does this hint that Singapore really bought or developed some backup system for the hawkeyes?Originally posted by tripwire:when RSAF first bought the hawkeye... it was no less sensitive...
If SAF feels that the purchase of AEGIS will enhance singapore security and deterence value... i doubt they will give a damn about what malaysia thinks... afterall, they could be the potential enemy.. why make it any easier for them??
my feelings says.... its always best to have a back up... if we become too reliant on one platform, one equipment, one doctrine or one man.... we will be in trouble if the enemy found a way to neutralise it...
While hawkeye has served us well in the past... we cannot be dependent on just the hawkeye.... what will we do if the hawkeyes are sabotaged or even shot out of the sky... then wont we be demoralised??
and as far as defense of singapore goes... the govt will spend even if singapore is in depression......
Yap, ground based radar TP-117 3D mobile radars. They also have some other stationary ground based radars.Originally posted by Shotgun:when RSAF first bought the hawkeye... it
Does this hint that Singapore really bought or developed some backup system for the hawkeyes?