What is the priority of our police?
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Based on the ST report reproduced below, it would seem that the priority of the police is to catch the guilty and not to prevent crime or murder. Have they lost their senses?
27 Oct 2005
Eyewitness to a tragedy
JALAN BUKIT MERAH MURDER
Retiree Liew Meng Choon, 65, was sitting in his usual place at the top of the staircase at the end of a short path from Block 132, Jalan Bukit Merah, when he witnessed the tragic events unfold on Tuesday evening
6pm: He sees the 26-year-old wife coming out of a taxi. She appears normal, talking into her mobile phone, but then goes to the coffee shop to use the public phone. The conversation is short, about 40 seconds, and she then goes up to her flat.
She knocks on the door of her second-storey flat and her husband lets her in. Shortly after that, an argument breaks out between the couple. Neighbours told Mr Liew later that they heard the woman crying out for help.
..............
8.45pm: The wife's boyfriend calls the police. He tells them that
she has sent him an SMS asking him to call 999 as her life is in
danger. He tells the police she is in Block 132, Jalan Bukit Merah,
but fails to give the unit number.
9pm: The first team of police officers arrives and goes door to
door. When the officers reach the second-floor unit, they see a man
armed with two knives sitting in the living room.
Officers see a handbag and a woman's shoe but no sign of the woman.
When the man notices them, he threatens them and slams the door shut.
The police then try to persuade him to put down the knives and to
let them in, but fail. Singapore Civil Defence Force officers are
then called in to climb up to the windows at the rear of the flat to
prevent him from escaping.
The Special Operations Command is also called in. By this time, the
crowd of onlookers is more than 200-strong.
10pm: Police officers cut the lock of the metal gate with special
cutters but do not attempt to break down the door. Instead, police
negotiators are called in and, in line with police strategy, the
man's relatives are quickly found and taken to the unit to persuade
the man to give up.
12.40am: After the man's sister and mother fail to persuade him to
open the door, his son and daughter, who have been playing around the
staircase landing, are asked to try to get him out.
Crying pitifully, their pleas work and the man opens the door.
Police rush in and find his wife strangled to death in the bedroom. -
No bullets fired at all!
Civilian's property nearly undamaged!
HDB made quality doors that even our SPECIAL police force can't break down easily!
Far-sighted police force! - Looking beyond the immediate surrounding (the son and daughter) for the killer's mum and sister to help.
Wow!
Impressive!
What are the numbers to call for Hollywood? -
Somehow, I do not agree with your opening address on this article. I felt that the police officers have carried out the proper procedures. But sadly, tragedy cannot be prevented.Originally posted by pearlie27:Based on the ST report reproduced below, it would seem that the priority of the police is to catch the guilty and not to prevent crime or murder. Have they lost their senses?
If you are probing that the situation may have been different if they chose to break in than to apply time-consuming procedures, then bear in mind that at that point in time, the police officers were threatened. As such, two possible hypothesis arise,
1. Faster escalation of tragedy
2. Tragedy prevented
Since, I mentioned that the man is in a state of mental aggression, then it will be wiser to follow standard protocols as the probability of hypothesis 1 happening is higher should they used force.
2 Cents
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It must be super hard to fire a shot accurately at a man sitting down with 2 knives. Maybe the the police team that arrived at the spot used super computers to calculate that the man sitting down has a parry skill of 100% and thats why the SPECIAL force was called in.
I am so glad to know that even our civil defense force are also well trained to handle a man with 2 knives. More impressive is that they do not carry guns! -
did he murder his wife before the police came, or after?
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I'm impressive you could voice out your views as if you're going to be absolutely right when you clearly have shown yourself being ignorant of the General Orders and SOP.Originally posted by Cindyfeh:It must be super hard to fire a shot accurately at a man sitting down with 2 knives. Maybe the the police team that arrived at the spot used super computers to calculate that the man sitting down has a parry skill of 100% and thats why the SPECIAL force was called in.
I am so glad to know that even our civil defense force are also well trained to handle a man with 2 knives. More impressive is that they do not carry guns!
You watched too much movies? Or was it Heartlanders?
Civil defense are trained to handle such incidents. In case you don't know. Average cases of this simliar incidents are 8-9 per day.
Thread Starter : Disagree with your statement.
The first piority is to maintain safety of human lives - then deterrance of crimes.
However in this case. The 999 call came a little too late, there are too many possiblilties which the officers at scene have to consider.
For this case. I have to support the decision of the police officers to wait for negotiation team as well as CD.
Cheers -
O yes, it is extremely essential for the police to stick to SOP. Just like it was required by SOP to send in 40 well armed riot police to stop 4 silent protesters to turn voilent. The SOP was so well followed then when the police sized the paper plycards. Who know what the dangerous ply cards could be used for at that time.Originally posted by M©+square:I'm impressive you could voice out your views as if you're going to be absolutely right when you clearly have shown yourself being ignorant of the General Orders and SOP.
You watched too much movies? Or was it Heartlanders?
Civil defense are trained to handle such incidents. In case you don't know. Average cases of this simliar incidents are 8-9 per day.
Also ,it is so absolutely required by the SOP to keep the man alive to trial him so as to have a record of what happened.
Wow!
Didn't know every day there are 8 or 9 such knives wielding case per day!
Which newspaper or TV do you watch? -
Dear Cindy,Originally posted by Cindyfeh:O yes, it is extremely essential for the police to stick to SOP. Just like it was required by SOP to send in 40 well armed riot police to stop 4 silent protesters to turn voilent. The SOP was so well followed then when the police sized the paper plycards. Who know what the dangerous ply cards could be used for at that time.
Also ,it is so absolutely required by the SOP to keep the man alive to trial him so as to have a record of what happened.
Wow!
Didn't know every day there are 8 or 9 such knives wielding case per day!
Which newspaper or TV do you watch?
Like i've posted before. What you don't see doesn't mean they don't exist.
In this case we are discussing. Those cases weren't reported, hence not known in the media. The officals knows what i'm talking about.
Now that we're in this topic of the dead wife killed by suspect; her husband. I think we shouldn't drift to a another case which is of different genre all together.
On strike and protest exercises, the officals view these acts very seriously.
Through this reply. May i ask, how much do you know about SOPs and the powers of officers and the power to use the revolver?
Cheers -
Reactions to protests are a basic gauge to how secure the incumbent govt feels.Originally posted by M©+square:Dear Cindy,
Like i've posted before. What you don't see doesn't mean they don't exist.
In this case we are discussing. Those cases weren't reported, hence not known in the media. The officals knows what i'm talking about.
Now that we're in this topic of the dead wife killed by suspect; her husband. I think we shouldn't drift to a another case which is of different genre all together.
On strike and protest exercises, the officals view these acts very seriously.
Through this reply. May i ask, how much do you know about SOPs and the powers of officers and the power to use the revolver?
Cheers -
Reactions to protests is what the incumbent government ought to do to prevent political turmoil and instability. Either which will bring the downfall of a country and its people.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Reactions to protests are a basic gauge to how secure the incumbent govt feels. -
Correct.But the level of reaction shows whether its a regulatory move or an oppressive one.Originally posted by TooFree:Reactions to protests is what the incumbent government ought to do to prevent political turmoil and instability. Either which will bring the downfall of a country and its people. -
I can't believe it! singapore really has 8 to 9 cases of knives welding husbands every day?Originally posted by M©+square:Dear Cindy,
Like i've posted before. What you don't see doesn't mean they don't exist.
In this case we are discussing. Those cases weren't reported, hence not known in the media. The officals knows what i'm talking about.
Now that we're in this topic of the dead wife killed by suspect; her husband. I think we shouldn't drift to a another case which is of different genre all together.
On strike and protest exercises, the officals view these acts very seriously.
Through this reply. May i ask, how much do you know about SOPs and the powers of officers and the power to use the revolver?
Cheers
Perhaps we should consider paying our ministers even more salary so that we can reduce to 1 case per day. -
Then it's time you start believing.Originally posted by Cindyfeh:I can't believe it! singapore really has 8 to 9 cases of knives welding husbands every day?
Perhaps we should consider paying our ministers even more salary so that we can reduce to 1 case per day.
Cheers -
priority of the police is to earn $ for gov by catching people who violate laws and fining them.
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Can say so also.Originally posted by vito_corleone:priority of the police is to earn $ for gov by catching people who violate laws and fining them.
Since it's the public's view of PO. Then no choice lor. No point defending...haha.
Cheers -
I am so so so sad that singapore is not as safe a country as what our beloved straits times and tcs reported.Originally posted by M©+square:Then it's time you start believing.
Cheers
On the other hand, I am so so so glad too. It means that singapore men are either:
1. Workaholics that are working 18 hrs work days and contributing immensely to the economy and thus as an unfortunate side effect, are ignoring their wives.
2. Gamblers who will be eventually contributing to the success of our popularly supported integrated resort projects. -
Not surprised that you're sad. Since when have you been happy?Originally posted by Cindyfeh:I am so so so sad that singapore is not as safe a country as what our beloved straits times and tcs reported.
On the other hand, I am so so so glad too. It means that singapore men are either:
1. Workaholics that are working 18 hrs work days and contributing immensely to the economy and thus as an unfortunate side effect, are ignoring their wives.
2. Gamblers who will be eventually contributing to the success of our popularly supported integrated resort projects.
I repeat again? What you don't get to see, doesn't mean they do not exist.
Those two points mentioned are over generalising views.
Spouse abuse Cases are rather balanced on man or wife being the abuser.
I think if you don't know much. You shan't conclude too soon.
Regards -
crime prevention is the job and role of everyone in the society.
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Given what was an unusual situation, it was no longer a question of saving the wife. She was probably dead before the police could reach the apartment.
It was just a question of opening up without the use of force and withourt alarming the husband, who might have committed suicide; in which case you have 2 dead bodies and a lot of questions with no answers. -
To thread starter: I dont really see how did you come to the conclusion that "the priority of the police is to catch the guilty and not to prevent crime or murder".
Originally posted by Cindyfeh:
Whether to fire a shot or not depends not on how exposed the subject is or how easy the shot will be. Rather, it depends on the consequences of taking the shot. Had the shot been justified, the police would definitely have taken it.
It must be super hard to fire a shot accurately at a man sitting down with 2 knives. Maybe the the police team that arrived at the spot used super computers to calculate that the man sitting down has a parry skill of 100% and thats why the SPECIAL force was called in.
During the incident, the police did not have a clear n thorough understanding of the overall situation. Therefore, given the circumstances, it is quite alright for them to assume the worst. Thats probably why they called in special ops.
Btw, when SOPs are produced, many different scenarios and situations are considered. The police on the ground would not need "supercomputers" to make decisions for them since they can follow the SOP, which would most probably have recommended the best course of action.
Anw, what did you think the police should have done instead? -
According to the press report, the police arrived at the scene at 9pm. And when they failed to persuade the man to let them into the house, they called the Civil Defence "to prevent the man from escaping" and called the Special Operations Command (purpose unknown, maybe the police officers here could enlighten me)Originally posted by acotis:To thread starter: I dont really see how did you come to the conclusion that "the priority of the police is to catch the guilty and not to prevent crime or murder".
Don't you think that the police should be calling the negotiating team rather than the CD? Isn't it the responsibilty of the police negotiating team to avert any disaster and prevent any unnecessary loss of human lives? Or have i overstated the function of our police negotiating team?
The police negotiating team was only called an hour later.
Yes, maybe the man had already killed the wife but should we or maybe the police assume that? Maybe she was not dead yet and there could be a possibility of saving her had the police or CD or Special Operations Command got into the house earlier?
Btw, i find it rather embrassing that the police had to mobilize so many manpower and spend so many manhour and in the end not able to do anything.
acotis and m +square,
you all were participating in an internet forum and not issuing press statements and there weren't any need to protect my id by referring to me as the thread starter. anyway, i should be thankful that you all didn't refer to me as #27.
cheers
pearlie27 -
Wah...pay more~!~!~!~!????? What happen if they becoming greedier and ask for pay or salaties like Bill gates, Lee Kah Shing or Stanley Ho?Originally posted by Cindyfeh:I can't believe it! singapore really has 8 to 9 cases of knives welding husbands every day?
Perhaps we should consider paying our ministers even more salary so that we can reduce to 1 case per day. -
the public sometimes too much...
make trouble for uniformed personells. damn irritating.