Is there Something Wrong with CPF?
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When birdflu become a pandemic, many will be without jobs...Originally posted by dragg:last week i went to the job fair.
a 55 yr-old man was asking about tourism course and whether he can find a job after finishing it.
55!!! -
CindyFeh,
While true that some may find sitting at home boring, if you go around the street to make a survey on your own, you will hear differently.
I say that the CPF which was intended to help citizens retire or take care of their medica needs, is flawed.
It DOES NOT work, and it isn't WORKING. -
But what is the next best alternative without CPF
Its forced savings but the flexibility is limited
Most of us would never be able to retire looking forward ...
perhaps downgrade lifestyle
Actually what intrigues me is that you as a owner of your own business cares about CPF - perhaps the amount you have to pay for your employees? -
Even if I ahve 60 Million in my suez acount, I'd still be griping here.
It's not money that I'm peeved about; it's ETHICS! -
Forced saving is good. It means no matter what, there is a certain amount set aside for those wet days.
But the POLICIES and RULES governing use of CPF, lacks logic, and HUMANENESS.
What the hell is someone who is almost 60 but not quite 62, has no job and cannot stand or walk around much to do cleaning work but still considered able bodied by CPF to hold a job, and has to spend a few hundred dollars every month for medicine to do? Like what the CPF board says; wait till your medical condition worsens, then apply again????
What kind of INHUMANE welfare is this??? Call this WELFARE? Sounds like HELLFARE! -
I would have tot that at your level, you can careless since the ones who are having it tough are the employees who will forever slave away for this country at no returns.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Even if I ahve 60 Million in my suez acount, I'd still be griping here.
It's not money that I'm peeved about; it's ETHICS!
Well, ethics is not something I observe in corporate management - neither will I ever see it in corporate Singapore. You must know, and I repeat from the MPs: We are and will never be a welfare state.
This is loud and clear. Adn I quote from WWF: Every Man for Himself.
I would love to be in your position but I know you had to pay some price for your position and lifestyle. I see CPF as both good and bad. It did provide people with housing but it makes people go into debt. However, From what I see, the people regardless of CPF need to do financial/Retirement/Wealth planning and not out source it to some government. Of course when one relies solely on CPF and thinks that the government will take care of its citizen, we can see now, how wrong our assumptions are.
Its never too late to start planning. For those who are late in realizing this issue, well, unless they make less than $600, they are not eligable to rent from HDB - isn't it a ruthless policy. $600 is subnormal. Earning $1000 and still need to put money into CPF. All these are policies needed review and change but will never be approved cause doing so will mean less money for something /someone else.
I feel sorry but there are not many things I can do for others knowing it will soon be my turn. Knowing this mecenary country, everyone knows that this country is build for the rich and rich only. I had been poor, I will lose my job soon, and will be poor and I know I will forever be poor and need to work till the day I die. I know it will be very difficult to migrate cause I do not have the money to go anywhere. What does it leave me. To keep thinking about this would drive me up the wall and to sucide, but to live a day at a time is what I have to adpot and what others adopted as well.
Downgrade lifestyle. What are the mininum a person can live on...
I found out the last time I was kicked out. -
No, I feel we shouldn't go on swallowing stupidly, indefinitely.
I'm not here to start something against our gov., just hope they'd get up off their seats and say: Look, there's really something wrong here! We should see if we can re-design Policies governing CPF so that the less fortunate and those who could not plan when they were younger, can survive their old age.
Heck, that'll be the day pigs fly in Singapore.
This is dumb. But things will change, because nothing man-made, can ever last forever. -
It cannot be flawed!Originally posted by ShutterBug:CindyFeh,
While true that some may find sitting at home boring, if you go around the street to make a survey on your own, you will hear differently.
I say that the CPF which was intended to help citizens retire or take care of their medica needs, is flawed.
It DOES NOT work, and it isn't WORKING.
The policies set by our great leaders are not flawed! (Ok, minus the ERP, NS water dipping, Nicole Highway checks, discounting of Disney and F1, monopology of the telecoms (all owned one way or the other by GLC), 40+ riot police vs 4 demonstrators, etc).
How can they be flawed right? Afterall, we pay good money to ensure good policies. Look at how poorly USA was being run? Old US folks nothing to do in parks, too much freedom of speech, demonstrations, etc. Thats because the american President is only paid peanuts! In fact, he is being paid even less than our Durian! -
Perhaps the pricing of HDB flats is set in such a way that it will consume the CPF savings of husband and wife thru their working life.
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What does it serve to get fired up in a forum like this?Originally posted by ShutterBug:No, I feel we shouldn't go on swallowing stupidly, indefinitely.
I'm not here to start something against our gov., just hope they'd get up off their seats and say: Look, there's really something wrong here! We should see if we can re-design Policies governing CPF so that the less fortunate and those who could not plan when they were younger, can survive their old age.
Heck, that'll be the day pigs fly in Singapore.
This is dumb. But things will change, because nothing man-made, can ever last forever.
As the owner of a business, one should know which fight to fight, where and when to fight and always fight to win.
its not the brightest idea but its not the worse either. Until there's a better solution, and you can suggest one, perhaps life might change.
For now, no matter what you do, as long as the change affect the rich and infleuntial, then the change will never happen. -
I ask again:
Does CPF really work?
Members of Parliament told The New Paper they are seeing more of their elderly constituents hoping to rent one-room flats without the waiting period.
Mr Charles Chong (Pasir Ris-Punggol GRC) felt that while the HDB is flexible and did see each case on its merits, the current policy may have to be reviewed.
He said: 'Years ago, we had people coming to us because they wanted help in hastening their applications to get their bigger flats.'
Now, because of financial problems, they want to sell these flats to rent smaller ones.
'We are seeing more and more of such cases in the last few years and they are not just the elderly,' he added.
PREVENT PROFITEERING
He said the policy of the 2 1/2-year waiting period was to prevent people from making a windfall from selling their bigger flats to rent the much cheaper and heavily-subsidised one-room flats.
But Mr Chong added that many want to sell their flats to settle debts or because they can no longer maintain their larger flats.
He said: 'I see one to two cases every week. They ask for help in asking HDB to allow them to be exempted from the debarment period.'
Dr Lily Neo (Jalan Besar GRC) had brought up the issue in Parliament last June of whether the 2 1/2-year debarment period to obtain rental flats could be waived for elderly people facing financial difficulties.
Dr Neo told The New Paper that she has seen a 50 per cent increase in the number of elderly approaching her with requests to help them sell their flats so they could rent one-room flats.
She sees several cases every month.
Most, she said, wanted the money to cover their daily expenses as they were too old to work.
And some went away happy.
Speaking from her own experience, Dr Neo said HDB has made exceptions based on medical grounds.
Madam Halimah Yacob (Jurong GRC) said the increasing number of potential downgraders she was seeing were not confined to just the elderly.
They were mainly low-income earners who downgrade to use the cash for their daily needs and to settle debts.
She noted that some were living beyond their means, buying products on hire-purchase schemes and when their other bills accumulate, they see downgrading as their way out.
Madam Ho Geok Choo (West Coast GRC) said she was seeing more elderly coming to her for help.
NEED CASH FAST
While some downgrade to smaller flats for practical reasons after their children move out, others are desperate for cash and could not wait 2 1/2 years to rent a one-room flat.
She said: 'They need to downgrade so they can get the money to help them settle their debts like their housing loans.
'For those without debts, the proceeds from the sale of the flat will provide them with a source of income.'
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INSIDE MPS' FILES OF DESPERATE CASES
MADAM HALIMAH YACOB
(Jurong GRC):
NO MONEY for HDB loan
A WIDOW in her 60s approached Madam Halimah for help.
The woman could no longer service the loans for her four-room flat, which she had bought.
Her son, who is in his 20s, has refused to work and isn't helping to pay the loan.
So the woman is trying to sell the flat, get some cash and rent a one-room flat instead.
MADAM HO GEOK CHOO
(West Coast GRC):
NO MONEY to live on
AN elderly couple approached her for help. They were broke and wanted to sell their three-room flat.
Their children had their own families to care for and all were not well-off. Madam Ho said: 'The old man was sick and couldn't work.'
Their first two appeals to get a one-room flat quickly were rejected. But Madam Ho appealed again on their behalf and was successful.
DR LILY NEO
(Jalan Besar GRC):
NO MONEY for medical bills
A 70-year-old man's wife had heart problems.
The childless couple needed money urgently to pay for the woman's monthly medical treatment.
He was too old to work and they had no savings left.
He approached Dr Neo for help and HDB allowed them to rent a one-room flat immediately after they sold their two-room flat. -
I further ask:
Does the System work??
THOUGH blind and jobless, she has one precious asset - a fully paid-up three-room flat.
--HEDY KHOO
The Tampines Street 44 flat is now worth nearly $180,000, according to the HDB website.
And Madam Veronica Tupaz, 51, desperately needs money.
She has no savings. She has been living on charity and is sick of it.
'How long can I ask for help and live on charity?' she asked.
She has a solution.
'I want to sell the flat, rent a one-room flat and live off the proceeds,' she said.
But there is a hitch. She has to wait 2 1/2 years after the sale before she can rent one, say HDB rules.
Madam Tupaz can't wait that long. She has nowhere to go in the interim.
She said: 'I don't know where I will stay for 2 1/2 years before I am eligible to rent a flat.'
MPs say they are seeing more cases like Madam Tupaz's. (See report on facing page.)
In her case, it was all downhill after her husband's death in 1986, just a month after they moved in.
He was on his way to buy a birthday cake for their youngest daughter when he fell on a slope and later died of heart failure.
She said her husband used to be a security guard and earned about $800 a month.
'We paid $46,000 for the flat 19 years ago. It was fully paid for when he died,' she said.
She was born with very poor eyesight and became totally blind 24 years ago.
She used to work as a domestic help before she became blind.
She stays at home while her youngest daughter, Hazel, now 20, goes to school and works part-time as a pharmacy assistant.
GETS MONTHLY DONATIONS
She also gets monthly donations of about $500 from various organisations like a church in Tampines and the Eurasian Association.
A spokesman from the Eurasian Association confirmed they give her $100 a month.
She said her other daughters, aged 24 and 26, live elsewhere but she doesn't know where exactly as they are not close. They rarely visit her.
Her 24-year-old daughter is also a single mother with a 3-year-old daughter.
Speaking to The New Paper last Friday, Madam Tupaz said: 'My daughters live their own lives. They don't like me to ask them too many questions.'
HDB said Madam Tupaz had requested in January and August to rent a flat if she were to sell hers.
They had explained to her why she was not able to immediately rent a flat and would have to wait 2 1/2 years after the sale.
They suggested she consider staying with her relatives and rent out the flat to get some income.
She was eligible to rent out the flat based on existing policy.
The HDB spokesman added: 'However, if she is selling her flat, she could consider using the sales proceeds to rent a room or flat from an HDB flat owner under the approved Subletting Scheme.
'HDB can consider her rental application after she has satisfied the 30-month waiting period.'
But Madam Tupaz said: 'I am afraid to rent out a room because I am blind and it's very hard for me to trust someone.
'If things can happen to people who can see, what more to a blind person?'
She even requested several old folks' homes to take her in, but they said she was too young at 51, had a family and her own flat.
An HDB spokesman told The New Paper that rental flats are available at heavily subsidised rates.
They are limited and meant for meeting the housing needs of lower-income families who cannot afford their own flats.
Explaining the 2 1/2-year waiting period, he said: 'This will help ensure that HDB's rental flats cater to the more urgent housing needs of the intended lower-income group,' he said. -
isnt it funny. it is better to allow the sales and let her live on the money instead of seeking help from charities.
even such an obvious case they cant be flexible.
really fail to understand. -
The stupid HDB rule on flat rental is so retarded I cannot even imagine how they came up with it. I sometimes wonder if the government has something against us peasants and deliberately goes out of the way to cause pain and suffering.
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The HDB, and CPF, they use BLIND and UNFEELING policies.
This is what I mean, and why I say they FAIL to work. -
From all the article in the papers, I think there's something wrong with EVERYTHING!
The government seems to be protecting their Policies more than the people!
It's like, you can go and die, but their policies and rules must be upheld.
Is this what it is? It sure as hell looks like! -
i dont understand why they did not increase the number of rental flats. they could help by renting it to the poor. that will solve a lot of problems. why do they insist on people owning flats and taking having loans?Originally posted by av98m:The stupid HDB rule on flat rental is so retarded I cannot even imagine how they came up with it. I sometimes wonder if the government has something against us peasants and deliberately goes out of the way to cause pain and suffering.
your guess is as good as mine. -
Well, it's very likely that HDB has built so many flats that are now standing empty and rotting away all over the island.
They are probably trying to clear their over-supply of new HDB flats which very few are buying.
For example, in Jurong West alone, there is a cluster of flats standing empty for donkey years. -
are you referring to the 5-room flats?
HDB is selling it in the resale market. a move i find ridiculous. -
Well, it's their interests that they are MORE concern about than us!!
Very obvious!
Ok so they have Policies that cater to the low income and poor, but their Policies lack any dynamics. None at all. Like dead fixtures, almost robotic! -
an article appeared in the straits times today. see insight S9. it spells the weakness of HDB's policy.
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HAHAHA,the 4% gain must be coming from imposing all sort of taxes to cover their foreign investment losses.Dont be too naive to believe their news,if they are really making money,do the government still have to cut the pay or even retrench workers?It is the GLC who lead the pay cut n retrenchment first,then those foreign companies follow,let us not forget that!!!Originally posted by Cindyfeh:According to the Today news report a few months back, Temasek or GIC really make money the past year, something in the range of 4% gain. Not too sure if that 4 % is a net or gross value - meaning 4% gain before expenses (salaries and other expenses) or 4% gain after netting off the expenses.
Whichever the case, as loyal and humble citizens, we must understand that today's economy is ever changing and hard to master. Thus it is already very impressive that our scholaristic, super intelligent leaders can squeeze 4% gain. Please give them more time (like 10 or 20 years), more money (like all our CPF) and double their salaries so that hopefully in the future, the gain can be 8%. -
You have to respect the American president man,yes,his pay is peanut and yet he got so much things to do.Unlike our ministers pay is high,but sitting down there doing nothing n talk cork somemore.Originally posted by Cindyfeh:It cannot be flawed!
The policies set by our great leaders are not flawed! (Ok, minus the ERP, NS water dipping, Nicole Highway checks, discounting of Disney and F1, monopology of the telecoms (all owned one way or the other by GLC), 40+ riot police vs 4 demonstrators, etc).
How can they be flawed right? Afterall, we pay good money to ensure good policies. Look at how poorly USA was being run? Old US folks nothing to do in parks, too much freedom of speech, demonstrations, etc. Thats because the american President is only paid peanuts! In fact, he is being paid even less than our Durian!
If a minister come out n serve the country n his purpose is "making alot of money",then he might as well stay at home better.Becoz his perspective is totally wrong already,he will not truly serve country with sincerity.Adversely,he will more likely to "corrupt"!!!Our ministers like Goh Chok Tong,Lee Kuan Yew,n Lee Sien Loong are a very good example.And their performance is simply lousy. -
You give me all your money,and i will show u retirement is not a "boring" job.Originally posted by Cindyfeh:Because it is boring to retire - nothing much to do in singapore when you retire.
Most importantly, it is because of the great work opportunities that the gov encouraged - Landscape ARTISTs, cleaners, Merz drivers (taxi), etc.
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its their pocket against our.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Well, it's their interests that they are MORE concern about than us!!
Very obvious!
Ok so they have Policies that cater to the low income and poor, but their Policies lack any dynamics. None at all. Like dead fixtures, almost robotic!
but they hold the power and that's nuff said. Griping gets no where.
Cannot compare America with Sg.
In America, people have and use their power.
In SG, people kneel down to the absolute power.