Should Singapore abolish National Service?
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Mr Teo CH said that over the last 10 years, 'only' like 10 plus people died in NS?
How can anyone actually believe this? -
The 10+ people is kena accident mati one. There are many more who committed suicide, but the incidents were covered up.Originally posted by redstone:Mr Teo CH said that over the last 10 years, 'only' like 10 plus people died in NS?
How can anyone actually believe this? -
God will punish mankind for their greed esp. the elites who wants more and more money. Could it be happened to sg?Originally posted by LazerLordz:This galactic merger should not happen for thousands of years IIRC.Unless what you are saying has got to do with the Nibiru issue..
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dun complain last time i am recruit got $200 a mth niaOriginally posted by no_1_idiot:hMM .dONT ABOLISH OSO CAN,bUT INCREASE OUR PAY LAH.kNN,THE PAY WE GET IS LIKE pEANUTS,JUS LIKE BANGALA SIA........
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ya i agree with u. i personally got a relative who tried to attempted suicide in ns because, the life in there is very hard ? I dunno how hard is hard, but I have been in ncc .Originally posted by iveco:The 10+ people is kena accident mati one. There are many more who committed suicide, but the incidents were covered up.
Wad I have seen in ncc is tip of the ice berg , I know that. But in comparison to those who have not even seen that tip of the ice berg ns life is just gonna be hell for them. In ncc we are being ter-kan by those stupid cadet offier. Those ncc cadet offer are just poly students or jc students. They make us do push up here there everywhere run around like idiots to their pleasure .
Ransack our back pack throw all the insect repellent away keep our hp for us. In the middle of the night ask us fall in run around the camp site, go bath and run again. Sometimes we donÂ’t even get to bath up to 4days just use powder. Give us instant noodles cook for ourself . But in ncc I have learn drills and command , firing, striping and assembling of rifle , I.A of m16 no feed double feed those stuff.
I learn brother hood there, and in times of suffering we unite share water and soap laugh at each otherÂ’s pen!s when bathing. When book out of camp after getting our badge or rank , pat each other on the back, that feeling is really hard to describe just got the sudden urge to cry.
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Even the NSF officers also don't behave like NCC's C/LTAs. What you went through in NCC seems worse than BMT.Originally posted by Prophecy_Master:ya i agree with u. i personally got a relative who tried to attempted suicide in ns because, the life in there is very hard ? I dunno how hard is hard, but I have been in ncc .
Wad I have seen in ncc is tip of the ice berg , I know that. But in comparison to those who have not even seen that tip of the ice berg ns life is just gonna be hell for them. In ncc we are being ter-kan by those stupid cadet offier. Those ncc cadet offer are just poly students or jc students. They make us do push up here there everywhere run around like idiots to their pleasure .
Ransack our back pack throw all the insect repellent away keep our hp for us. In the middle of the night ask us fall in run around the camp site, go bath and run again. Sometimes we donÂ’t even get to bath up to 4days just use powder. Give us instant noodles cook for ourself . But in ncc I have learn drills and command , firing, striping and assembling of rifle , I.A of m16 no feed double feed those stuff.
I learn brother hood there, and in times of suffering we unite share water and soap laugh at each otherÂ’s pen!s when bathing. When book out of camp after getting our badge or rank , pat each other on the back, that feeling is really hard to describe just got the sudden urge to cry. -
I agree that reservist should be abolish. knn everytime i have to go back for reservist have to waste 4 hrs travel to and fro abd $50 for transportation. waste my bloody time and money.
wat's more now should be the time when job is very important. no job, no future, no need to defend wat we don have. -
so much about equality n human rights huh. does america practise in its own country to e blacks n minoritys? does europe do so? if so, currently theres a riot going on in france, should we respect their human right n let them carry on until their happy? wat is human right? wat is freedom? is total freedom gd? jus look at america n u can get ur answer
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NS life is much better now i heard.Originally posted by Prophecy_Master:ya i agree with u. i personally got a relative who tried to attempted suicide in ns because, the life in there is very hard ? I dunno how hard is hard, but I have been in ncc .
Wad I have seen in ncc is tip of the ice berg , I know that. But in comparison to those who have not even seen that tip of the ice berg ns life is just gonna be hell for them. In ncc we are being ter-kan by those stupid cadet offier. Those ncc cadet offer are just poly students or jc students. They make us do push up here there everywhere run around like idiots to their pleasure .
Ransack our back pack throw all the insect repellent away keep our hp for us. In the middle of the night ask us fall in run around the camp site, go bath and run again. Sometimes we donÂ’t even get to bath up to 4days just use powder. Give us instant noodles cook for ourself . But in ncc I have learn drills and command , firing, striping and assembling of rifle , I.A of m16 no feed double feed those stuff.
I learn brother hood there, and in times of suffering we unite share water and soap laugh at each otherÂ’s pen!s when bathing. When book out of camp after getting our badge or rank , pat each other on the back, that feeling is really hard to describe just got the sudden urge to cry.
i was from artillery mono intake in 1982. they pushed everyone of us until all cried.
started training at 5am and sleep at 12am. the food sucks then. -
Countries that have got mandatory national service streamline into military or civil services are not a fair comparison to the population in Singapore.Originally posted by iveco:But these countries you listed have more choices available for conscripts. THey either choose the shorter option of military service, or serve in the rescue services for a longer time (sometimes called "civil service"). A German exchange student I met last year spent his conscript days at the A&E department of a local hospital. In all, he was there for 2 years.
In any military operation, quantities not only speak volume but also to carry out a wide spectrum of military requirements. The ideas of conscripts serving in SPF or SCDF are available although it cannot be requested. This is because of the pools of regulars already in the forces and the numbers is near sufficient to carryout theirs operation requirement. -
ns is not that bad, just don't think that way and things will be better. cause very often the attitude we have towards events will be reflected on they way the handle those events. like if u think ns is hell, waste of time . when u go in your face will have that kind of expression and those sergent or whoever like to find ppl like u and knock u down and ter-kan u.
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this thread, like many others are stupid to start with. i served 2.5 yrs in ns many years ago. hated every moment but fully understood the need for a strong deterrent. anyone who craps about how mankind must live in peace and bla bla bla is not living in the real world. even if the military here is more hype than substance, it does give others some thoughts about invading sg. lest you forget how waking up one morning to learn that saddam had his troops simply drove into kuwait, and in less than a day it became a new iraqi territory.
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Okay. So most of you believe that many have indeed committed suicide becuase of NS. Some of you are in to abolish NS. Many are not into it because Singapore needs the defence force, which is true.
However, the point is many of you believe that people would not volunteer for NS if it is not made compulsory. For that, how sure are you? Ask yourself if you are very sure about that with the evidence from the later generation who are about to enter NS.
Should Singapore be more transparent about the NS suitation? As some of you have said, many have indeed committed suicide because of NS.
Most of you said NS was bloddy tough for you. So why was it tough to you? Was it necessary of the officials to be tough. Was the timetable set too demanding?
Some of you are saying that because it is a must, you have no choice but to go for NS.
So overall, it's hard to say who is for NS and who is not if we just imagine that Singapore is something like the UK.
When the government cut down the Singapore NS term from 2 1/2 to 2 years, the media did street interviews. All of the people said they were pleased and that their sons supported the NS plan. But were these all true words / thoughts? Were there other negative comments but the media just did not publish them. Don't forget, the government monitors the media closely in Singapore.
So there are deaths, the government had them covered up.
NS is tough, but Singaporean male are made to go through them.
Some want NS abolish.
Many don't want NS to be abolish because Singapore is too vulnearable.
Many do not believe that Singaporeans would volunteer for NS.
What i want to say is that you guys have the power to choose, not the government. If you don't voice out your opinions, they will never take any action. -
We are in a volatile region , anything can happen in this region.
Recently , Chinese indonesians were threatened.
Who knows what might happen to Chinese singaporeans?
You want to be next? -
Just my two cents' worth, most males would prefer not to serve, but most of us have no choice, as dictated to the law. You can make darn lot of noise; write to the ST about your views; request to the President that you do not want to serve; or go to the Speakers' Corner and talk the entire day if you want, you will still need to serve the two years to this country that you are living in. Even if you are the President's son you will still need to serve; only people who do not need to serve are non-Singaporeans. So since you do not have a choice, you might as well try to learn as much as possible from this period. It will be a good experience, if you try, especially with the brothers who will stand with you through the toughest times and the darkest nights.
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Then how sure are you that sg will not plunder into chaos when there is a law to made NS non-complusary? Could u provide the evidence that a suspential bulk of our later generation will auto sign up for NS to create a sufficient deterrance force?Originally posted by Relm:However, the point is many of you believe that people would not volunteer for NS if it is not made compulsory. For that, how sure are you? Ask yourself if you are very sure about that with the evidence from the later generation who are about to enter NS.
You cannot look at one side and rant that NS shld be made non-compulsory. Ok, suppose u are the govement now, u create a law that NS is now non-compulsory. Then in the next 24hrs hordes of NSFs auto ORD themselves Then wat happen? U created military vaccum in sg.
And within few hours our very "friendly" neighbours up north or down south will use some lame excuse, such as:=
"To protect sg from plundering into chaos"
and invade sg. As a goverment, will u allow urself with even 0.000000000001% chance of getting into such a shi**y mess. Just imagine, within 48 hours after the law is effect the whole of sg is now in the hands of another country.
Again, sounds abit far fetch eh?
Then could u provide me the evidence + proof and gurantee chop that the above won't happen if such a law comes into effect? -
I think we can all agree that defense matters is something that cannot be outsourced to the UN or even our very own FPDA. Like it or hate it, it won't go away
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The age old maxim applies.You do not own what you cannot defend.
Assuming you abolish NS and you set a timeframe..it will take a long time to secure the necessary number of volunteers and recruit enough Regulars to make up for that shortfall.
There are people out there who want this nation sunk because we are a prosperous nation with ties to America.NS may not be the best solution, but in this volatile world, one extra man in uniform never hurt anyone.
Australia has passed a law allowing military deployment in their streets, France is facing chaos and even the gendarmarie are unable to cope well.This is a very unstable world and perhaps you might not have had the chance to see a larger picture during your NS days, but those of us who have, the situation out there is not for the faint-hearted.
Those nations who have ended compulsory military service have done so after decades of review and actual compensation in force recruitment and adjustment to show an overall net improvement in military capability.
Are we there yet?No.So the best solution for now is to serve and take care of yourself in the Army.Our Army is not as siong as South Korea, and I can say that if you use your minds well, there is no reason why you should be subjected to unnecessary abuse inside.Usually it is due to a reluctance to speak up and stand up for your health that gets you into trouble. -
I think my life is worse than yours(that time) now, Start training at 6 am, sleep at 2 am.Originally posted by dragg:NS life is much better now i heard.
i was from artillery mono intake in 1982. they pushed everyone of us until all cried.
started training at 5am and sleep at 12am. the food sucks then.
And take the MRT like a Zombie. -
Smart. Firstly, no one can be 100% sure of everything. Nothing would always turn out to be 100% our way. Humans have their own unique set of thoughts.
Firstly, i must highlight that besides our present NS force, there are still people to defend our country. They are doing it for a living. People like the police force and stuff like that. Why had they join the force? That we must look into. MR Goh Kim Swee was the one who proposed the idea of NS. It was becuase Singapore at that time greatly needed a fighting force large enough to defend Singapore for the British announced it's withdrawal plans from Singapore. So, Singapore had only less than 3 years to build it's own army. but how can we ensure a regular flow of army without incurring higher costs was National Service.
And of course, it worked well.
Today, we have people taking up jobs in the military as a living.
So why don't we make the military job more attractive? That's what i meant. Make NS not compulsory. Let young singaporeans volunteer themselves. Chunk in some good benefits.
To answer the question on how sure i am that singapore will not be in chaos. No one can be sure. I believe not even you can say a definite answer. What i can see is that we should take education to a further step. have some students learn the importance of defending the coutnry. If you look at the present syl. , it's way to little. So, if we start from educating the young, plus a better benefit, who knows, we may have a better fighting force, willing to fight for singapore. Better than the present. That's what i see.
octega said that neighbours like malaysia (north) and indonesia (south) may invade singapore during chaos. That's very wrong to say that. Fristly, you may start a potential war between our neighbours and we all know that will be the end of singapore if that happens. We depend on them for lots of stuff like oil and water. But i believe that they have intergity. We should never ever let our personal opinions like that affect our judgement.
So what i'm saying is that you got to think further. What's the point of making NS compulsory? We got some who are so unwilling in the force. We can build a much better force if it is not compulsory.
It also promotes the government's latest policy in giving singaporeans more freedom. So let us all have the freedom to choose if we want to serve -
cheaper to maintain a conscript army....if u dont mind the steep rise in taxes to support a wholly regular force.....
a 3rd Sergeant NSF infantryman gets paid 720 a month...
a 3rd Sergeant Regular infantryman gets paid roughly 2045 a month with additional benefits and incentives..
u imagine how many 3rd Sergeants there are in a coy.....dun need to expand to a Batt...we havent even added the salary of the riflemen too...not to mention the support staff such as drivers...clerks.... -
agreed. a regular professional armed forces would be too expensive and the personnel numbers would be too little to put up any effective show of force when diplomacy breaks down and deterrence comes into playOriginally posted by Rockhound:cheaper to maintain a conscript army....if u dont mind the steep rise in taxes to support a wholly regular force.....
a 3rd Sergeant NSF infantryman gets paid 720 a month...
a 3rd Sergeant Regular infantryman gets paid roughly 2045 a month with additional benefits and incentives..
u imagine how many 3rd Sergeants there are in a coy.....dun need to expand to a Batt...we havent even added the salary of the riflemen too...not to mention the support staff such as drivers...clerks.... -
No issue with National Service itself BUT...and it's a big BUT:
Why should we spend 2 and a half years (my time) charging up Pengkang hill when our Malaysian classmates get an invitation to be PR with a letter giving exemption from all forms of national service?
Why should we have to defer our studies for 2 years when these same Malaysians can get ahead of us in University and gain seniority in jobs?
Why are women exempted from all forms of national service when they are talking about gender equality?
Why should we do National Service only to be called whiners? Why should we bother to sacrifice so much when the EDB chairman said he would much prefer to give his scholarships to women and foreigners?
They don't give a damn to what we put up with in NS..the lost opportunities, the deprivations...
For your information, I was enlisted more than 20 years ago... -
i bet at least half the reservists will abandon their weapons in the event of war.
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Hands up those who are willing to volunteer for 2 years national service in the SAF with shitty allowances if its not compulsory. anyone? No one?