LKY warned world facing critical depleting resources.
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LKY warned singaporeans of world facing critical depleting of resources on News TV on 7 nov 2005.
Any comment?
Singapore have been promoting greenery since donkeys years ago. Why is our gov still encouraging people to buy cars and more to come.
With the stupid COE system that implimented and resulted in tremendous numbers of vehicles scrapping and became the world's biggest second hand vehicles export country. So.... who is on earth creating more damages to environment? And who is depleting the stocks or resources of the earth? Who is creating more vehicles on earth now?
What if China adopted our COE system in Shanghai or Beijing, Japanese gov implement it in Tokyo or USA implement it in New York?
Don't you think that our gov is contradicting themselves. -
Originally posted by Lowclassman:
They hv vested interest in oil related business.
Don't you think that our gov is contradicting themselves.
Hippocrocy? Ignorance ? Or pure greed ?
Try asking S'pore gov to close down Bukom/Jurong isle refinery and close all its SPC kiosk.
MM can start with switching his Lexus to eco-friendly Toyota Prius -
I am heeding our beloved super-informed mm calling by planning to migrate to a country where I can sleep without the aircon and walk 10 km without perspiring.Originally posted by Lowclassman:LKY warned singaporeans of world facing critical depleting of resources on News TV on 7 nov 2005.
Any comment? -
At the present rate of paying retiring MPs and Ministers at 2/3 of their last drawn hyper salaries, the national coffer will soon enough be depleted by $1,000,000,000.00 computed on 25 years' ifespan after retirement.
Which is the biggest resource depletion - politicians' lifelong golden handshake or some minor corruptions that inevitably might have existed in any systems e.g. by car park attendants or policemen. We can easily afford some amount of inevitable corruptions occasionaly existing among lower paid people e.g. car park attendants or policemen performing hazardous duties.
Just imagine, Singapore by some fruit assumption has to cop out this kind of collosal extraneous windfall monies in the name of avoiding some presumptuous corruptions supposed to have been controlled that only exist in the inner recess of mind of one man. -
Originally posted by Lowclassman:
Because donkeys like you want to drive cars and a booming economy.
Singapore have been promoting greenery since donkeys years ago. Why is our gov still encouraging people to buy cars and more to come.
I think you should surf the net les and off your aircon.
Have you been to Japan?
With the stupid COE system that implimented and resulted in tremendous numbers of vehicles scrapping and became the world's biggest second hand vehicles export country. So.... who is on earth creating more damages to environment? And who is depleting the stocks or resources of the earth? Who is creating more vehicles on earth now?
What if China adopted our COE system in Shanghai or Beijing, Japanese gov implement it in Tokyo or USA implement it in New York?
Don't you think that our gov is contradicting themselves. [/b]
Do you know they abandon lots of cars by the roadside & buy new cars because they cannot afford maintain high environmental standards for their cars? -
I guess he is just jumping on the bandwagon. Trying to maintain his currency in the changing global environment.
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LKY always talking nonsense after quitting his PM post,no need to bother about him.Moreover,he is getting older n older n going to die anyway,so we can totally ignore his utter "rubbish".
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If I am a donkey so.... who are you? You like to call people in this way?Originally posted by Salman:Have you been to Japan?
Do you know they abandon lots of cars by the roadside & buy new cars because they cannot afford maintain high environmental standards for their cars? Watch out your son or daughter that they will born with no ass holes. God will punish you.
I haven't even step out of singapore. Where is japan? -
Originally posted by Cindyfeh:
There...
[b]
I am heeding our beloved super-informed mm calling by planning to migrate to a country where I can sleep without the aircon and walk 10 km without perspiring.
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You are right, with their freaking salaries; I was wondering how much more....distruction to earth will cause.Originally posted by robertteh:At the present rate of paying retiring MPs and Ministers at 2/3 of their last drawn hyper salaries, the national coffer will soon enough be depleted by $1,000,000,000.00 computed on 25 years' ifespan after retirement.
Which is the biggest resource depletion - politicians' lifelong golden handshake or some minor corruptions that inevitably might have existed in any systems e.g. by car park attendants or policemen. We can easily afford some amount of inevitable corruptions occasionaly existing among lower paid people e.g. car park attendants or policemen performing hazardous duties.
Just imagine, Singapore by some fruit assumption has to cop out this kind of collosal extraneous windfall monies in the name of avoiding some presumptuous corruptions supposed to have been controlled that only exist in the inner recess of mind of one man. At least half of SEA's forest. -
maybe he is justifying his stay on power - he is recycling himself over and over again?Originally posted by rascallyun:I guess he is just jumping on the bandwagon. Trying to maintain his currency in the changing global environment. -
Why are we paying taxes which are going into their pockets just to talk nonsense? The people here are slogging day and night to earn a living. Moreover, families with kids are struggling hard to maintain their household income. Where is the justice? Ministers are the most highly paid in the World. Even President Bush earns more than the Prime Minister. Where is the welfare of the people who works day and night? What about the retrenched who can't find job because of their age and other invalid reasons?
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The reason given by the government to pay its own ministers salaries equivalent to the highest earners in ten professions is full of cock and bull without any rationale as they were entirely put up by the ministers for self-reward without any merits supported by proper objective debates or support of the people.Originally posted by bila_prem:Why are we paying taxes which are going into their pockets just to talk nonsense? The people here are slogging day and night to earn a living. Moreover, families with kids are struggling hard to maintain their household income. Where is the justice? Ministers are the most highly paid in the World. Even President Bush earns more than the Prime Minister. Where is the welfare of the people who works day and night? What about the retrenched who can't find job because of their age and other invalid reasons?
MM Lee had said that by paying the ministers high salaries it will prevent or avoid corruption. There was an underlying assumption in such a statement that the elected representatives were corruptible which obviously cast a big doubt on the ministers. Therefore the ministers being corruptible should not be trusted with putting up such self-reward motion. Moreover any forms of self-approved rewards unless they are properly tendered in pre-approved contracts of service or sanctioned by an organization through open and accountable remuneration system may be regarded as gratuities or corruptions liable to prosecution under the Corruption Act.
In other words the motion to pay the ministers the highest salaries equated to the highest earners in the private sector without sanction by independent pre-approved contracts of service or independent panels was tainted with bad and questionable motives. There was no study by independent panels of integrity or independence.
There was no explanation how to safeguard the interests of taxpayers after paying such salaries with holding the ministers of accountability and responsibilities in the event of failures or negligence in performance as practised in the private sector.
Most of the elected MPs had merely acquisced without saying a word to ask for open or public debates. The few who has said something were quickly shot down by authoritarian dares rather than convinced through objective debates or rationale. There was no rationale in equating the ministers' salaries to the highest earners in private sector like bankers or practising lawyers. Very simplistic comparison were given without the slightest semblance of giving objective apple-to-apple comparison as most or many of the highest earners in private sector were business owners themselves or bosses who could easily inflate or pay their own highest wages as a means to avoid paying profits of their own firms to the taxes. So obviously the ministers were wrong in paying themselves the highest salaries equated to this group of business owners or bosses.
In any even if the ministers were to apply for any of those jobs said to be paid that kind of salaries they might not be qualified being lacking in relevant practical experiences for those jobs.
By that kind of reasoning argued in parliament it is very clear that the whole argument to pay ministers the highest salaries was without basis but was completely fallacious. Comparison was highly argumentative and irrational and the whole parliament was merely hookwinked.
So MM Lee thinks that he could use the same authoritarian argument to convince Malaysia to lend support to such apparently fallacious self-reward of ministers by paying Malaysian ministers also higher salaries to avoid corruption. His rationale was easily dismissed by the Malaysian PM who said that he believed in integrity and paying the highest salaries was not the correct way.
Up to now MM Lee has been tongue-tied and unable to reply to Malaysia's PM rebuttal suggesting that paying his own ministers and his own salaries in such manner is morally untenable and is totally baseless and without justification. It has been easily debunked by Malaysian PM on the ground that ministers or government should be people with integrity not out to screw up people with paying themselve the highest self-reward using the public fund even though the ministers can succeed legally in pushing the vote with their own party majority. What is wrong will at the end still be wrong no matter how one tries to sugar-coat it with fallacious justification and arguments. No good arguments about self-rewards will ever make them less wrong. It smells rat !!!
When a government cannot see self-rewards as wrong and insists on using public monies to do so, how is it going to preach to the people about rights or wrongs. For example when citizens vandalize public buildings after the NKF incident, government leaders openly advise people that two wrongs do not make a right. How is it going to determine what is wrong and right and who can decide what is right and what is wrong. Apparently without moral authority leader cannot govern the country and there is no meaning to such terms. -
Hi robertteh,
Pardon my ignorance. I want to know how and where did you guys get the salaries figures of our ministers? Can give me the website? If you have a comparative table of all ministers salaries worldwide, that will be better. Thanks.
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Here is a site showing salaries of prime minister of Singapore:Originally posted by TooFree:Hi robertteh,
Pardon my ignorance. I want to know how and where did you guys get the salaries figures of our ministers? Can give me the website? If you have a comparative table of all ministers salaries worldwide, that will be better. Thanks.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sg_Review/message/457 -
Only $100,000 per month! Do you know that is very low for a PM?
Do you know how many people in Singapore earn more than that for doing less?
You people need to open your eyes and minds more. It just shows me you don't know how the Singapore economy works and what the ministers do. You don't know how Singapore came to be what it is, so how can you tell others how to run Singapore? -
Are you sure that pm's salary is only hundred thousand per mth.Originally posted by Salman:Only $100,000 per month! Do you know that is very low for a PM?
Do you know how many people in Singapore earn more than that for doing less?
You people need to open your eyes and minds more. It just shows me you don't know how the Singapore economy works and what the ministers do. You don't know how Singapore came to be what it is, so how can you tell others how to run Singapore?
You know alot how the government run singapore meh....? Tell us lah...if you know so much.
You're just an arsehole on the street. you talk too much nonsense.
Another idiot. -
You know alot how the government run run singapore meh....? You're just an arsehole on the street. you talk too much nonsense.Originally posted by Salman:Only $100,000 per month! Do you know that is very low for a PM?
Do you know how many people in Singapore earn more than that for doing less?
You people need to open your eyes and minds more. It just shows me you don't know how the Singapore economy works and what the ministers do. You don't know how Singapore came to be what it is, so how can you tell others how to run Singapore? -
I so totally agree with you salman!Originally posted by Salman:Only $100,000 per month! Do you know that is very low for a PM?
Do you know how many people in Singapore earn more than that for doing less?
You people need to open your eyes and minds more. It just shows me you don't know how the Singapore economy works and what the ministers do. You don't know how Singapore came to be what it is, so how can you tell others how to run Singapore?
I think they should be paid much more!
Look at their schedules.
Its always either planting this tree lah or eating this RC or Community Centre dinner lah or pressing this button for opening ceremonies lah. So totally busy and tiring jobs that very few singapreans will want to do. -
Sad but trueOriginally posted by Cindyfeh:I so totally agree with you salman!
I think they should be paid much more!
Look at their schedules.
Its always either planting this tree lah or eating this RC or Community Centre dinner lah or pressing this button for opening ceremonies lah. So totally busy and tiring jobs that very few singapreans will want to do. -
I agree with this! Singaporeans have it so good that they forget the work the government has put in into building Singapore up!!! Our supposed "thrid world" country has grown up to over take the likes of Australia, America etc... we should be proud of what the Country and the government have achieved in the short time that Singapore is a nation.Originally posted by Salman:Only $100,000 per month! Do you know that is very low for a PM?
Do you know how many people in Singapore earn more than that for doing less?
You people need to open your eyes and minds more. It just shows me you don't know how the Singapore economy works and what the ministers do. You don't know how Singapore came to be what it is, so how can you tell others how to run Singapore?
You complain about taxes in Singapore, wait till you work in Australia, if you earn more than $63K, your tax is 47%... now that is stealing from the people to pay Ministers High salaries. From memory the max tax in Singapore is around 30%? Correct me if I am wrong... -
If you say that Singaporeans have had it so good, I disagree with you. Go and coduct a proper survey of how the ordinary tries to live with their dropping wages, and coping with rising costs of living. Try to understand that general perception painted by the state-controlled media has been artificially distorted by fallacies and all the look-good justification syndrome as shown in the Buangkok station case and past denials of high costs and other problems. There seems to be a government disease dogging our political scene for too many years, refusal to accept mistakes and negligence in performing duties and responsibility and act on them. They only want to carry on pushing the high-cost Goh Keng Swee doctrine (posted at PGPB thread) to no end even after all the feedbacks.Originally posted by breytonhartge:I agree with this! Singaporeans have it so good that they forget the work the government has put in into building Singapore up!!! Our supposed "thrid world" country has grown up to over take the likes of Australia, America etc... we should be proud of what the Country and the government have achieved in the short time that Singapore is a nation.
You complain about taxes in Singapore, wait till you work in Australia, if you earn more than $63K, your tax is 47%... now that is stealing from the people to pay Ministers High salaries. From memory the max tax in Singapore is around 30%? Correct me if I am wrong...
Eventually all the problems as posted in "People's Government Performance Benchmark" thread if not solved or postponed due to sycophantic praises by a few benefitting from the elitist system will just have to explode like the NKF. Take the many advices given by people who can see the whole picture and stop all the hypocrisy approach and act real.
It is hoped that they will become more objective in governing the country and not try to talk about past achievements which citizens do not deny. It is more important our leaders accept responsibility to keep up with the time the first being to accept their duties and responsibilities and taking pro-active actions to solve the PGPB problems. Only then can there be realistic and proactive corrections and earlier solutions to all the problems as posted here. -
I think that the Government is very objective in the governing of our Country, its not only about past achievements, but also about future growth, from what I know, the Singaporean government has got the picture correct, try looking at some of the policies and strategies of some supposed power countries... they are all in disarray and have no cohesiveness at all. No government is perfect, but ours is doing a very good job. You talk about low salaries, have few people benefitting from an elitist system, try going to live in America or Australia where welfare is crippling the nation! There has to be a fine line drawn somewhere and in Singapore I think that they have got the balance right to some extent.Originally posted by robertteh:If you say that Singaporeans have had it so good, I disagree with you. Go and coduct a proper survey of citizens' wages, and their costs of living. Try to understand that general perception painted by the state-controlled media has been distorted to suit government's look-good justification syndrome a special disease dogging our political scene for too many years.
Eventually all the problems as posted in "People's Government Performance Benchmark" thread if not solved or postponed due to sycophantic praises by a few benefitting from the elitist system will just have to explode like the NKF. Take the many advices given by people who can see the whole picture and stop all the hypocrisy approach and act real.
It is hoped that they will become more objective in governing the country and not try to talk about past achievements which citizens do not deny. It is more important our leaders accept responsibility to keep up with the time the first being to accept their duties and responsibilities and taking pro-active actions to solve the PGPB problems. Only then can there be realistic and proactive corrections and earlier solutions to all the problems as posted here. -
If the gahment is objective....Originally posted by breytonhartge:I think that the Government is very objective in the governing of our Country
It will not have white horses in SAF.
It will not give light sentences to PAP loyalist when they broke the law.
It will not have the Lee's n extended familes running singapore, thus becoming a Lee Dynasty. -
You will be seen as singing the sycophantic praise when you do not want to acknowledge the problems with high costs and dropping wages of the majority of the citizens but make comparison with worse examples called selection comparison or look-good justifications to get away from discussing real problems.Originally posted by breytonhartge:I think that the Government is very objective in the governing of our Country, its not only about past achievements, but also about future growth, from what I know, the Singaporean government has got the picture correct, try looking at some of the policies and strategies of some supposed power countries... they are all in disarray and have no cohesiveness at all. No government is perfect, but ours is doing a very good job. You talk about low salaries, have few people benefitting from an elitist system, try going to live in America or Australia where welfare is crippling the nation! There has to be a fine line drawn somewhere and in Singapore I think that they have got the balance right to some extent.
Surely by a system of taxing and corporatization to recover full costs or market fees, government is over-taxing the people through a lot of indirect taxes. Surely the double charging on lands already owned by the taxpayers is wrong and morally reprehensible.
The fact that the GLCs and government are able to create all the high surpluses does not show at all to its own citizens that the country is doing well. It is not the same as people or the domestic sector of the economy doing well even if the top elites are doing well. You should know the difference. So by your saying that the government is objective and keeping things in balance is not in anyway helpful to solutions of existing problems.
In short you are unable to substantiate your case that government is objective and keeping things in balance forgetting conveniently that as many of their policies in the past are not working any more and existing problems as posted at PGPB are causing unhappiness of the general population.
Should the government be excused from its failure since the last two recessions to do anything about increasing unemployed graduates and retrenched workers except in talking about generalities and statistical numbers which did not show where the problems lie.
The government definitely can do much better if there are competent and caring leaders who do not keep talking about past achievements but who will apply new solutions with creativity or entrepreneurship to deliver to people's needs and expectations. The wrongs or mistakes as posted in PGPB 1-29 will always be wrongs and mistakes and will not go away or be camouflaged until problems are admitted openly and solved one way or another.
After all since the government has without people's endorsement increased their own salaries many four folds since the 1970s and being the highest paid government ministers or world's best surely they will not try to compare their performance with the worse performers. Have they tried to recognize that smaller countries like Finland or Denmark have consistently delivered higher standards of living for their citizens with broad-based education and pro-people policies.
There is no reason why being the best paid ministers they should continue to sing their own praise or try to compare their performance selectively with worse performing countries. In my view, the ministers should not be excused from solving the GPPB 1-29 problems.