Future of Armed UAVs?

Shotgun

16 Feb 02, 01:34

Okay, a crazy idea is going on in my head now. We all know a Predator UAV was armed with a Hellfire missile, and fired it at some unidentified men, believed to be part of the Al Qaeda Leadership.

We also read reports on the newspapres about armed unmanned air vehicles.

I would like to take this one step further. An Armed air armada/battle group.

Basically, it would consist of one Large EAW aircraft (the eyes), and a Carrier Plane (the so called "carrier" of the skies.)

Given the current technology, precise GPS systems, airborn radar technology, "inflight refueling" technology, I believe it soon introduce a air carrier battle group.

Consists of, Advanced Armed UAV flights serving flyinG CAPs around the formation. These UAVs are preferably armed with AMRAAMs or a longer ranged version of the AMRAAMs, for air to air engagements. Movements and positioning of the UAVs around the formations should hopefully be computerized, with instructions relaying from the "eyes." As the Eyes detects targets at long range, and vector the UAVs to a firing solution. Once achieved, the Eyes will paint the targets providing initial guidance for the Missiles released by the UAVs. Missiles will intercept targets, as second echelons of UAV will be directed towards the engagement. UAVs that have expended their munitions can then be guided back to the carrier to be recovered, re fuel and re arm.

How to recover? Basically, the Eyes will provide the location of the carrier, and the UAVs will feedback via GPS or even the Eyes. The Eyes will steer the UAVs to the rear of the carrier. Imagine a mid-air refueling situation, except that a smaller plane is actuallying being recovered by a larger one.

Hopefully, future UAVs will be able to carry more weapons, and have on board active sensors. UAVs can be hopefully re-equipped to fly a variety of sorties, from SEAD, to CAS. Even air combat.

Force composition would be something like...

- 1 EAW aka as the Eyes. Mother ship to UAVs.

- 1 Carrier, to recover, launch and rearm UAVs.

- 1 Electronic Warfare aircraft, assists in gathering intelligence.

- Perhaps a few escorting F-16s or any jets.

Ducati996

17 Feb 02, 00:42

read an article once regarding a similar concept as wat u tokking. basically ppl were tokkin bout the idea of establishing the future of air combat with unmanned fighter aircraft.
obvious advantage would be minimal to no casualty of pilots. guess who scorned this idea the most? the pilots themselves. the pilots refuse to believe that machines and computers can do their jobs as well or even better. the article (not me) said pilots feel a certain pride in being the few ppl capable of combat flights, like elite combatants. the article ended by saying to pave the way for such a future it is the pilots themselves who must first change their attitudes.
sori i cannot remember where i read this article and i stress it was wat the article roughly said and not my views. as for me, well, i guess we all, not just combat pilots, feel threatened with the prospect of having our role in work/society/combat replaced by machines and computers.

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RockerZ!

eagle

17 Feb 02, 09:43

I thought of this b4 when I was in Pri sch. U noe, when we haf a lot of imagination.

I was thinking of this great underground centre where men gather to drive tanks as if playing computer games. Then after they die, new mission lor. Possible? Air, Land and Sea. Then after that sure can win the war if haf lots of these machines.

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Thomas Edison definition of genius :
"1% inspiration, 99% perspiration"

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The Eagle

He clasps the crag with hooked hands:
Close to the sun in lonely lands,
Ringed with the azure world, he stands.

The wrinkled sea beneath him crawls;
He watches from his mountain walls,
And like a thunderbolt he falls.
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YourFather

17 Feb 02, 13:30

The Air carrier would have to have extremely long endurance, as well as the capability to carry a meaningful load(at least 20) of strike and interceptor aircraft, their fuel and munitions. Only possible(if at all possible) option would be a lighter-than-air craft, however, they wont really be very survivable in the theater of operations, right? Furthermore, its destruction would mean bye bye for all the parasite aircraft it carries. Besides, why duplicate the sea-based aircraft carrier? The only advantage such a system would have is instant deployability, giving quick reaction to a crisis. But you wont even have time to build up a viable database of targets yet, so.....
This idea has been tested before, about 50 years ago. The prototpe XF-85 Goblin, which first flew in 1948, was a fighter prototype designed for launch and recovery from the B-36 bomber. The idea failed terribly, as docking with the mother-ship proved too difficult. Now, GPS helps a lot, and the idea you suggested can be replaced with a much better automated carrier landing system under trial by the US Navy.
It is based on a differential GPS location system. It works by comparing the coordinates of the incoming craft's with the coordinates of the carrier's, thus giving landing accuracies to within inches, as carrier landings have 2B very precise. This system has been very successful, and could possibly be adapted to your aerial carrier system.

Shotgun

18 Feb 02, 00:40

Well, but nowadays, with in flight refueling being accomplished readily, the next step would actually be docking a tiny aircraft within a mother ship wouldn't it?

The idea for this air-carrier, is basically to reduce the workload and the number of pilots being involved in a CAP or missions similar to fightersweeps. Without losing valuable pilots to such encounters, whether by SAM or not.

Of course, the actual planes involved would preferably have stealthy designs. With BVRAAM technology improving, these missiles should launched from a drone platform. Whereas delivery of PGMs should still be undertaken by pilots.

YourFather

18 Feb 02, 09:41

I still find this concept unviable unless there is anti-gravity technology which will allow for extremely heavy loads to be suspended in the air indefinitely :-)

m113apc

21 Feb 02, 23:48

Originally posted by YourFather:
I still find this concept unviable unless there is anti-gravity technology which will allow for extremely heavy loads to be suspended in the air indefinitely :-)

of which i have just read this book called The Hunt for Zero Point by Nick Cook,the avivation editor of Janes Defense.can be found in the local libraries and book stores....very interesting if your guys are interested in anti gravity

hardware

22 Feb 02, 07:31

Anyone have concrete info of unmanned A-4 super skyhawks?

YourFather

22 Feb 02, 10:05

Unmanned Skyhawks? I thought America only has unmanned Phantoms, the RF-4s? If you are referring to Singapore, never heard Singapore has unmaned Skyhawks....

Viper52

23 Feb 02, 01:20

Originally posted by YourFather:
Unmanned Skyhawks? I thought America only has unmanned Phantoms, the RF-4s? If you are referring to Singapore, never heard Singapore has unmaned Skyhawks....

RF-4s are recon Phantoms. Exist in the RF-4B RF-4C and RF-4E versions.

The drones are QF-4s. Machines that were replaced and kept in storage until conversion to drones to be expended in live missile tests. A number of other types were also converted: QF-100, QF-102, QF-106, QF-86 etc.

There was some talk about us looking into converting skyhawks to drones when they are retired. since they aren't retired I doubt we'll hear much more till thay day...

hardware

23 Feb 02, 09:06

These remotely-controlled A-4s are rumoured to be use in combat instead of target practies. Got 'wind', ST is planning to develop the technologies b4 those A-4 replacement squadrons became fully operational.

There was some talk about us looking into converting skyhawks to drones when they are retired. since they aren't retired I doubt we'll hear much more till thay day...

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YourFather

23 Feb 02, 12:30

Originally posted by Viper52:
RF-4s are recon Phantoms. Exist in the RF-4B RF-4C and RF-4E versions.

The drones are QF-4s. Machines that were replaced and kept in storage until conversion to drones to be expended in live missile tests. A number of other types were also converted: QF-100, QF-102, QF-106, QF-86 etc.

There was some talk about us looking into converting skyhawks to drones when they are retired. since they aren't retired I doubt we'll hear much more till thay day...

Yup, I got mixed up again :-)
Anyway, what's this about Singapore developing unmanned A-4s? For what purpose? Anybody knows? CAS? SEAD?

Shotgun

27 Feb 02, 23:22

SEAD would be more viable I guess. CAS, err... I don't think I would trust a computer to handle close air support if I was a grunt requesting it.