Citizens probably gave up trying a long time ago.
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Citizens probably gave up trying to do anything long ago due to a sense of futility.
They may know what the government has been doing in double charging or triple charging on lands and vehicles are wrong and anti-entrepreneurship or anti-business but they feel that they cannot do anything and they just keep quiet and let them do as they like.
They may know that there are many creative accounting in pushing up HDB prices or medical charges and that the government is only keeping to their past policies for self-preservation rather than caring about competitiveness or survival of the masses.
But people will not do anything and they might just gave up trying and continue to vote for all the MPs even if the MP fail to raise issues or problems about wrong policies or issue of high costs in parliament.
It is now beyond Apathy or ignorance. I suspect most citizens just gave up trying to do anything to make the government listen or change. -
The only way to change things is through ballotting. THose whose wards are contested should vote for alternative voices.
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For many years now our leaders have been trying out many types of scholars and all the so-called high flyers election after election. A number of them were quietly without showing the reasons why they could not meet the expectation.
So the so-called meritocracy or scholars do not make matter. At the end it is a matter of finding effective people and not just people with certain high academic qualifications. But effective people do not agree with the leaders' past policies easily and they tend to have their own rationale and logics and abilities. So effective people might be dropped and miss the chance to serve the country due to self-preservation instinct of the leaders themselves.
If our meritocracy system cannot make the difference, and so far have not thrown up any capable ministers who could succeed in upgrading our economy to value-adding technology economy, why do we still want to emphasise on what doesn't work in practice.
In the absence of such entrepreneurship in our government that can upgrade our economic structure the only way forward seems to be to stick to past narrow track-minded policies which are mostly anti-entrepreneurship and anti-business system of running the government. The only way is to play safe then and not change might incur risk to status quo. The better reason not to change is to show that the original leadership or meritocracy formula has been successful. -
Hi Robert, i admire your passion in pushing for changes, my passion has run out. My conclusion about politics is that only power and representation matters and makes changes - the only way is the ballot box. Iif the ballot box is rendered useless by the expanding GRC strategy, then i be an apathetic Singaporean who flees Singapore at the slightest tremor.
I think there are a significant amount of people who are dissatisfied, but have given up discussing on internet. Discussion does not influence government policies, only power and representation does. We need tp elect people who can represent our views. In the first remaking of Singapore, how many suggestions from the Committee were taken? Close to nil
Even polices like changing school ranking that are obviously flawed were rejected by these bureaucrats. They just want to save their faces. (although changes was implemented later)
What are the chances of a power change?
If you visit http://www.singapore-elections.com/, the change from Single wards in 1984 to the current big GRC system is biased towards the incumbent party . Candidates can always piggy back on a few heavyweights (like MM LEE or SM goh) to win a large number of seats. With complete control over the media, whose odds are better? I wouldnÂ’t be surprised if several Internet forums about the Singapore are indirectly owned by the government and is used to silence critics in less overt ways, this one included.
I have talked to some people around me. There are some who like and support government, especially the older generation who have benefited from the early PAP goverment during the boom years. The younger students are more critical of the goverment because of flawed-elitist polices that deny children with sports talent but not academic results from entering sports school. Imagine Fandi Ahmad cannot qualify for sports school! What a silly policy!Their argument was there was not enough money to open new class for the normal students and yet they spend billions on lavish office buildings
The policy was was changed but i think it is because of the coming election. After they have won the election, expect more flawed-elitist polices. I have read in the papers that there are 20% of older Singaporeans earning $1200 or less, and their standard of living has been falling due the economic problems. In my opinion, this coming election could be one of the worst for PAP in history but they may still win the majority. -
Why people all think that their property price will drop if PAP does not form the majority of the govt?
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Contrary to all of Robert's rhetoric the govt is in fact very effective.
There are indeed many geniuses among these schorlars and they have quietly done a great job for Singapore.
The real problem is, you don't open your eyes and you don't see these schorlars work because you hide in your shell of negativity all the time. You most likely have never even met any of them or worked with the stat boards and ministries.
I am a frontline man for many years and I meet with people of every sector and I can tell you that the cream of Singapore do work for the govt. The private sector has been mismanaged by second rate Singaporeans, thats why very few listed companies make it big regionally.
If Robert truly wants to help Singapore, he shld focus his attention not on whining but get off his butt and start to open his eyes, work hard and smart, get out there and create jobs. -
yeah and always the party has the answers?Right...Originally posted by Salman:Contrary to all of Robert's rhetoric the govt is in fact very effective.
There are indeed many geniuses among these schorlars and they have quietly done a great job for Singapore.
The real problem is, you don't open your eyes and you don't see these schorlars work because you hide in your shell of negativity all the time. You most likely have never even met any of them or worked with the stat boards and ministries.
I am a frontline man for many years and I meet with people of every sector and I can tell you that the cream of Singapore do work for the govt. The private sector has been mismanaged by second rate Singaporeans, thats why very few listed companies make it big regionally.
If Robert truly wants to help Singapore, he shld focus his attention not on whining but get off his butt and start to open his eyes, work hard and smart, get out there and create jobs. -
Don't look to the govt for answers. Look for some back bone will you?
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U JUZ KNOW AR?
STILL NOT TOO LATE... -
That's one viewpoint. Here's mine.Originally posted by Salman:Contrary to all of Robert's rhetoric the govt is in fact very effective.
There are indeed many geniuses among these schorlars and they have quietly done a great job for Singapore.
The real problem is, you don't open your eyes and you don't see these schorlars work because you hide in your shell of negativity all the time. You most likely have never even met any of them or worked with the stat boards and ministries.
I am a frontline man for many years and I meet with people of every sector and I can tell you that the cream of Singapore do work for the govt. The private sector has been mismanaged by second rate Singaporeans, thats why very few listed companies make it big regionally.
The government may be effective (with its billions) but resourceful? I have my doubts. I see the workings of the government in this light:
When you're someone with billions, you can do anything. You enter all kinds of businesses. You throw money here and there in big projects. You pay for the best talents. You headcount is tremendously huge to run all kinds of projects.
Are they fully accounted for? Does the President fully know? Now, what's the return like? Has it been digging deep into local pockets to fund its mega projects and investments? What kind of interest are they paying for that? Is the government really resourcefully run by first-class scholars/talents? Is the private sector unresourcefully run by second-class citizens? Why this belief by the government?
I think Robert and many common Singaporeans have tried that and it's not working. Why? That call is essentially "Ask not what the country can do for you - ask what you can do for the country". If "country" is synonymous with "government", it's clear to see who's been benefiting at whose expense.
If Robert truly wants to help Singapore, he shld focus his attention not on whining but get off his butt and start to open his eyes, work hard and smart, get out there and create jobs.
When the common Singaporean tries to start and make a living with a business successfully, who gives him the hardest time?
If we truly want Robert to help Singapore, we must first help him. The call should be "Ask not what you can do for the country - ask what the country can do for you". Toggle "country" with "government" and those drawing a salary from the government should ask themselves what they can do for Robert to help him succeed (rather than what they can do for the government to help it succeed). When Robert is successful and in business, I'm sure he'll create jobs knowing the government is not competing with him but giving him full support to be more successful. Would Robert work hard, create jobs when it's otherwise?
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Here's not another whiner's point of view but the same losers' view expanded.
That's one viewpoint. Here's mine.
Not resourcesful? Compared to what?
The government may be effective (with its billions) but resourceful? I have my doubts. I see the workings of the government in this light:
When you're someone with billions, you can do anything. You enter all kinds of businesses. You throw money here and there in big projects. You pay for the best talents. You headcount is tremendously huge to run all kinds of projects.
Are they fully accounted for? Does the President fully know? Now, what's the return like? Has it been digging deep into local pockets to fund its mega projects and investments? What kind of interest are they paying for that? Is the government really resourcefully run by first-class scholars/talents? Is the private sector unresourcefully run by second-class citizens? Why this belief by the government?
Not second class citizens, its second rate Singaporeans by ability. No apologies.
Don't blame govt foir going into businesses, there are lots of other businesses that you can get into. Besides, whats wrong with the govt setting up businesses? Don't you realise that it actually benefits Singaporeans as a whole?
I'm realistic about this. Had the govt not gone into business many jobs would not have stayed in Singapore. Many businesses would be foreign, not local owned. Many businesses would not even have started. Many businesses would have collapse thru bad management.
The problem with you is that you look only at the negatives.
Failure in business in Singapore have nothing to do with the govt. The govt don't make life hard for businessmen, in fact the govt is pro businesses.
I think Robert and many common Singaporeans have tried that and it's not working. Why? That call is essentially "Ask not what the country can do for you - ask what you can do for the country". If "country" is synonymous with "government", it's clear to see who's been benefiting at whose expense.
When the common Singaporean tries to start and make a living with a business successfully, who gives him the hardest time?
It is clear you have no idea of the local business environment.
We help Robert by waking him up from his whiner's mentality and set him up to work and compete hard. BTW I don't think he ever tried.
If we truly want Robert to help Singapore, we must first help him. The call should be "Ask not what you can do for the country - ask what the country can do for you". Toggle "country" with "government" and those drawing a salary from the government should ask themselves what they can do for Robert to help him succeed (rather than what they can do for the government to help it succeed). When Robert is successful and in business, I'm sure he'll create jobs knowing the government is not competing with him but giving him full support to be more successful. Would Robert work hard, create jobs when it's otherwise?
Only then will he be successful and create jobs and build this country. -
And the above is a longwinded bureaucratic template reply from an apologetic.Frankly is that any different from the same articles we read in the "press"?
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Not resourcesful? Compared to what?
Not second class citizens, its second rate Singaporeans by ability. No apologies.
Don't blame govt foir going into businesses, there are lots of other businesses that you can get into. Besides, whats wrong with the govt setting up businesses? Don't you realise that it actually benefits Singaporeans as a whole?
I'm realistic about this. Had the govt not gone into business many jobs would not have stayed in Singapore. Many businesses would be foreign, not local owned. Many businesses would not even have started. Many businesses would have collapse thru bad management.
The problem with you is that you look only at the negatives.
It's sad that some nitpicker would dare to marginalise SG citizens who ply their trade in the private sector as 2nd rate with respect to the govt sector.
That itself speaks volumes of your capacity and narrow-mindedness. -
No sir, you will never find the govt replying it the way I did.
They can't be that honest about it and not risk being thrown stones. Its through my own observation that I came to this conclusion about GLCs.
I can tell by what these whiners say that they have zero entrepreneurial spirit. True entrepreneurial minds will not think like them. They just don't have it, thats why they will never understand. Sorry to be so honest. -
It is not about "Robert" or my business that I have posted about this problem. I cannot change anything. I do not represent the average joe. I agree that we cannot make the government accept their shortcomings and even if the government change it will be very slow and unnoticeable like what has happened to the streaming of students into EM1, 2 and 3. Even If we have face to face exchange with MPs. ministers or some forumers from grass root or MPs like Salman (who after initial denial has admitted he is from the grass root) it will not do any good. It will not be of any use for Salman to try to convert us to his pro-government stance as what is wrong is wrong and cannot be made right just because of his posts or calling forumers whiners. May be like what someone here has posted the only change is through the ballot box.
This thread is about whether at this stage after what the government has done to the economy whether there is still a chance for citizens to overcome all odds and obstacles to the business environment by the government's GLCs and what-nots by adopting some citizen-self-help and self-reliant approach. For now the current conditions are heavily stacked against average citizens turning to doing business because the conditions are extremely negative in our case.
I do hope that the government will not have to be so negative by sending so many "Salmans" here to check our views and will instead be more proactive and not be so carried away like Salman to post and preserve the past unworkable policies. If past policies cause all such problems as posted then the problems must be understood and relevant changes made the sooner the better.
Salman ought to grow up in his political maturity and be more objective about my posts. If citizens do not speak up the government will continue to assume many excuses about citizens and lecture them for having no view. Government should know that when citizens begin to write and give their views and they should not go and try to stop them and call them whiners or all kinds of names like Salman is calling them. In other words Salman will not help the cause only worsen the situation of disaffection as posted by Dr. Catherine Lim now featured in the new film. -
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You assume that just because I am against your anti govt views, I must therefore work for the govt. How silly of you sir.
I never worked for the govt. I'm just a heartlander who open my eyes and think. I will be voting opposition this time.
I don't think Robert thinks. Did you notice he never even read my post or counter the points made. He just wants to be anti and whine. He is the one who is not open. -
Robert,
You can give up today and stop wasting your time and frustartions. Why? Because the govt will never listen to your whine cos they are senseless, and I won't blame them. To listen to you would be disastrous for the country.
Salman -
It's sad that some nitpicker would dare to marginalise SG citizens who ply their trade in the private sector as 2nd rate with respect to the govt sector.
How are these people marginalised in my writing? Please explain so we can understand you.
That itself speaks volumes of your capacity and narrow-mindedness. -
Your initial post:
Followed by your response to Macjoe:
I am a frontline man for many years and I meet with people of every sector and I can tell you that the cream of Singapore do work for the govt. The private sector has been mismanaged by second rate Singaporeans, thats why very few listed companies make it big regionally.
Unless you have no idea what you are writing above....i'd say it's a straight case of mudslinging.
Not resourcesful? Compared to what?
Not second class citizens, its second rate Singaporeans by ability. No apologies. -
By innuendo, since you label whiners as 'anti-govt', the same can be said that you are 'pro-govt' for simply singing their praises and bashing their critics.Originally posted by Salman:You assume that just because I am against your anti govt views, I must therefore work for the govt. How silly of you sir.
I never worked for the govt. I'm just a heartlander who open my eyes and think. I will be voting opposition this time.
I don't think Robert thinks. Did you notice he never even read my post or counter the points made. He just wants to be anti and whine. He is the one who is not open.
What is your argument then? -
And how am i marginalising them by saying that? Kindly explain so we can understand you.Originally posted by BillyBong:Your initial post:
Unless you have no idea what you are writing above....i'd say it's a straight case of mudslinging. -
I didn't equate all whiners to be anti govt, neither did i equate anti govt must be whiners. You did.Originally posted by BillyBong:By innuendo, since you label whiners as 'anti-govt', the same can be said that you are 'pro-govt' for simply singing their praises and bashing their critics.
What is your argument then?
My arguments are simple. A lot of the run of the mill criticisms heaped on the govt does not make any sense. They are birthed from an 'anti' mindset, not by good knowledge or logic. They are also unconstructive. Most are very childish. -
TALK TALK TALK...
NOTHING CHANGES...