Citizens probably gave up trying a long time ago.
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You just marginalised them by labelling them 2nd rate, then you compared them to govt sector people who you claim are top notch.Originally posted by Salman:And how am i marginalising them by saying that? Kindly explain so we can understand you.
Do you even know what you are saying? Or are you arguing for the sake of arguing? -
Normally i dont post much but i do have something to add with regards to Salmah posting:
Contrary to all of Robert's rhetoric the govt is in fact very effective.
There are indeed many geniuses among these schorlars and they have quietly done a great job for Singapore.
The real problem is, you don't open your eyes and you don't see these schorlars work because you hide in your shell of negativity all the time. You most likely have never even met any of them or worked with the stat boards and ministries.
I am a frontline man for many years and I meet with people of every sector and I can tell you that the cream of Singapore do work for the govt. The private sector has been mismanaged by second rate Singaporeans, thats why very few listed companies make it big regionally.
If Robert truly wants to help Singapore, he shld focus his attention not on whining but get off his butt and start to open his eyes, work hard and smart, get out there and create jobs.
i have been working with a bunch of scholars for years, and frankly i dont agree to what you have to say. most of the career path are actually plan in advance and most of them are arrogant bunch with no truth qualities in my humble opinion to be proud of. after i left. i learn much more from the so call second rated private sector than i had the opportunity in years of service in givt sector. and one must never forget these so call second rated citizens in private sector in your opinion are paying majority of these civil servants salary, bonus, incentives and whatever perks they are enjoying. private sector are always the first wave to weather any economic crisis and govt sector are often mildly hit and first to recover to re-enjoy their perks on the slightess sign of economic recovery.
sorry iam bad in my english vocab but i do know, the only difference when one can make a change in current system is through your vote in coming election. re-elect some MP that are good because they dare to voice for the ppl in parliament but most just sit quietly inside parliament with no intention to challenge minister during parliamentary debate. -
Everything in this thread that you have posted demonstrates as such. Do i need to quote more of your statements to embarrass you?Originally posted by Salman:I didn't equate all whiners to be anti govt, neither did i equate anti govt must be whiners. You did.
My arguments are simple. A lot of the run of the mill criticisms heaped on the govt does not make any sense. They are birthed from an 'anti' mindset, not by good knowledge or logic. They are also unconstructive. Most are very childish.
And your retorts to other comments are full of crap:I am a frontline man for many years and I meet with people of every sector and I can tell you that the cream of Singapore do work for the govt. The private sector has been mismanaged by second rate Singaporeans, thats why very few listed companies make it big regionally.
Can you tell me what kind of 'frontman' work do you do? You meet 'people' in 'every' sector and from this meagre experience, you suddenly insist that the govt is filled with brillant cream puffs while the private sector is staffed with 'second rate singaporeans'?
You don't even have solid facts to prove your stand and all you provide are sweeping statements. What kind of rubbish response is this? -
They are second rate, the govt do cream off the best people, no doubt about it.Originally posted by BillyBong:You just marginalised them by labelling them 2nd rate, then you compared them to govt sector people who you claim are top notch.
Do you even know what you are saying? Or are you arguing for the sake of arguing?
How would recognising reality marginalise anyone? Please explain so we can understand what you are saying.
I do know what I am talking about, I've met with lots of people and i can tell where the good people are. -
the problem is. WE don't know what you're talking about and where you're streering at.Originally posted by Salman:They are second rate, the govt do cream off the best people, no doubt about it.
How would recognising reality marginalise anyone? Please explain so we can understand what you are saying.
I do know what I am talking about, I've met with lots of people and i can tell where the good people are. -
Salman
Not sure if you know it. The more you talk, your profile beginning to show, bit by bit ..... -
I agreed they do cream of the cream of the crop. However, they did not graduate from the school of hard knocks... which is a big difference.Originally posted by Salman:They are second rate, the govt do cream off the best people, no doubt about it.
How would recognising reality marginalise anyone? Please explain so we can understand what you are saying.
I do know what I am talking about, I've met with lots of people and i can tell where the good people are. -
WHAT!!!! NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!Originally posted by Salman:They are second rate, the govt do cream off the best people, no doubt about it.
How would recognising reality marginalise anyone? Please explain so we can understand what you are saying.
I do know what I am talking about, I've met with lots of people and i can tell where the good people are.
Let me tell you I have many doubts with our govt sysyem.
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Salman.
this post is most probably redundent as i see u getting flamed by critical thinking people who do not sit on ivory towers and think the world revoles around asses fat from sitting on ivory towers.
govt cream the cream of the crop?Yes, if you narrow down to academic abilities.
No, if you require practical people,people's people in short.
your so called cream of the crop would have missed out on the greats of humanity such as,A einstien,bill gates,steve jobs(apple),dennis wee(our local hero who made it big without anything more than a O-lvl). who will not excel or even be noticed in our form of educational system.
a human is many faceted, even much so his achievments.
the govt has done a jolly good job,i am grateful for this land.but please,salman don't be an elitist, your existance depends on your so called second rated ppl if you are not included in tt group too like me... -
Originally posted by Alchemist273.16:
They do sit in a cocoon. Note that they often have no idea what they are talking about. The points made by them are one dimensional and very biased.
Salman.
this post is most probably redundent as i see u getting flamed by critical thinking people who do not sit on ivory towers and think the world revoles around asses fat from sitting on ivory towers.
I don't gauge them on their academic ability. They really are very capable people. Not all the schorlars are capable, but you have a lot of very capable people among them.
govt cream the cream of the crop?Yes, if you narrow down to academic abilities.
Such geniuses are far and few in between. It is foolish to base your policies of recruiting talent based on these exceptions.
No, if you require practical people,people's people in short.
your so called cream of the crop would have missed out on the greats of humanity such as,A einstien,bill gates,steve jobs(apple),dennis wee(our local hero who made it big without anything more than a O-lvl). who will not excel or even be noticed in our form of educational system..
I don't think the govt suppress people in any way with their policies. If they are indeed, the cream, they will rise up like and be recognised like Sim Wong Hu and Olivia.
Nothing to do with elitism. Its meritocracy. Many people from humble backgrounds made it up the social ladder in Singapore didn't they?
the govt has done a jolly good job,i am grateful for this land.but please,salman don't be an elitist, your existance depends on your so called second rated ppl if you are not included in tt group too like me...
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What are you talking about?
Let me tell you how you can be influential in Singapore. Join grassroots and work hard to serve the community and network your way up. You will be recognised by the govt.
A lot of people do not want to pay the price but want to call the shots and want to be heard. They flood the void decks, coffee shops and forums. Its so bloody childish to say the least.
You want respect and influence, you earn it. -
Care to mention who from humble backgrounds made it big? Can you ellaborate? What are their successes now?Originally posted by Salman:Nothing to do with elitism. Its meritocracy. Many people from humble backgrounds made it up the social ladder in Singapore didn't they?
What are you talking about?
Or is this just another sweeping statement from your preceived reality? -
Don't you know that many schorlars come from humble backgrounds?
Don't you know that schorlarships are awarded based on achievments?
Many president schorlars came from parents who are hawkers and taxi drivers.
Do you remember Goh Chok Tong & Tarmugi? -
And by the way...
there are also those that refuse to be creamed...
ie called for tea but choose the commoner path. -
Its a free country sir, you are free to do what you want.
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many ended up without the humility.Originally posted by Salman:Don't you know that many schorlars come from humble backgrounds?
Don't you know that schorlarships are awarded based on achievments?
Many president schorlars came from parents who are hawkers and taxi drivers.
Do you remember Goh Chok Tong & Tarmugi? -
Really? How many? What is the percentage? Did you do a survey?
What is your definition of 'without humility'? When they don't buy your views? -
Coming to the defense of the miw are we? Your rhetorics that the system is Sg is entirely based on meritocracy is flawed and u yourself noe it.
Meritocracy?.... its more like nepotism -
Where is your proof of nepotism?
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Once again, you have given more sweeping retorts to add to your resume.Originally posted by Salman:Don't you know that many schorlars come from humble backgrounds?
Don't you know that schorlarships are awarded based on achievments?
Many president schorlars came from parents who are hawkers and taxi drivers.
Do you remember Goh Chok Tong & Tarmugi?
Who are the scholars who come from poor families? Can you name them? All you've provided is rhetoric. It seems you are content to answer questions with your own set of questions but providing no answers youself.
Everyone already know Goh Chok Tong's history and Abdullah Tarmugi's 71/72 commonwealth scholarship.
The fact is, how many of the scholars come from such humble beginnings as these two? And how many were born with a silver spoon in their mouth?
Presidents scholars such as Ms Lee Chern Ee and Rhodes scholars like Ms Lim Joo Lee certainly don't fit the 'working class' profile. -
the old leader still ard pulling the strings from behind, his first spawn is the prime minister, his second spawn heads the biggest telco in sg. His daughter in law ho jinx heads up gic. Isn't this proof enough.Originally posted by Salman:Where is your proof of nepotism?
unless you are trying to tell me that out of the whole of sg, there are no capable persons to lead and jus coincidentally, his famiLEE has a monopoly on the brains and talents to lead singkeland. Nepotism is alive and well here -
I think its a matter of grooming rather than nepotism. I think they are doing a great job.
Even if it is nepotism, it is only a small fraction of all public office positions. You can't say the system is nepotistic just because of a few examples. Its not the schorlar system that is elitists, its losers who are jealous. -
I think this item has been harped on too often but i will just say it here again to emphasize the difference.Originally posted by Salman:I think its a matter of grooming rather than nepotism. I think they are doing a great job.
Even if it is nepotism, it is only a small fraction of all public office positions. You can't say the system is nepotistic just because of a few examples. Its not the schorlar system that is elitists, its losers who are jealous.
A bad financial decision led to a purported S$700 million investment loss for Temask holdings during Mdm Ho Ching's reign, even leading to the extent of finance minister Richard Hu (or was it Lee Boon Yang?) marginalising it in parliment as an expensive 'tuition fee'.
Under other circumstances, this costly error would have meant the immediate resignation of the president/CEO, which otherwise did not occur. -
A few things to note.
1. Technological ventures are risky
2. Ho Ching got her slack probably because of her connections to PM Lee
3. She's doing a great job now. -
Any venture, regardless of the cost is always a risk.Originally posted by Salman:A few things to note.
1. Technological ventures are risky
2. Ho Ching got her break probably because of her connections to PM Lee
3. She's doing a great job now.
What makes the difference is whether you do the right research and observe the market conditions.
When losses are predicted or the company stock starts to drop, you have to decide whether you are a high risk taker or if you prefer to cut your losses.
She chose to proceed, and therefore should take responsibility for her actions. Even a company as big as Temasek would be ruffled by such frivalous losses.
And after such a bad call, will directors and potential investors trust her judgement in such matters? I hardly think so.
So how can anyone justify that she is 'doing well' now? -
We all make mistakes. I think this is a case of honest mistake.
What punishment do you want her to bear?