RSAF NEW TOYS
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You're right in a sense that we won't know what happens after the next elections. Which is why we must work quickly to secure our AMRAAMs, so that such missiles would have ALREADY been introduced into the region. Then we can move on to procure the Meteors without any official policy standing in our way. By that time, if they still impose restrictions on us, we can in turn impose restrictions on the number of USN ships coming into port etc etc. Or maybe even allow the Russians into our ports once in a while. =)
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wow.... that is treading a little too close to dangerous ground. We don't want to be seen doing things against the Americans' interest do we...Originally posted by Shotgun:By that time, if they still impose restrictions on us, we can in turn impose restrictions on the number of USN ships coming into port etc etc. Or maybe even allow the Russians into our ports once in a while. =)
Afterall, we are still dependent on them for most of the weapons and spare parts.... -
What? Play "Who blinks first" with the Americans? Are you nuts? If watching Operation Enduring Freedom on TV taught me anything, its don't mess with the Americans. We need them much much more than they need us. Full stop.Originally posted by Shotgun:You're right in a sense that we won't know what happens after the next elections. Which is why we must work quickly to secure our AMRAAMs, so that such missiles would have ALREADY been introduced into the region. Then we can move on to procure the Meteors without any official policy standing in our way. By that time, if they still impose restrictions on us, we can in turn impose restrictions on the number of USN ships coming into port etc etc. Or maybe even allow the Russians into our ports once in a while. =)
As for securing AMRAAMS and Meteors first before crossing their paths, thats not very useful either. Unless we secure licence production rights(an I seriously doubt that) denial of the missiles, spares and other tech stuff woild really hurt. However don't forget, the Meteor is also slated to equip the Rafale, so I really don't understand why I keep hearing that one of the Typhoons advantage is the Meteor. -
LOL, are we going to start the great Rafale VS Typhoon war again? You people should know my position on this pretty well, heh heh. But its generally regarded that the Typhoon is the best fighter after the Raptor, at least B4 JSF comes out.
BTW, Typhoon in the CAS config really kicks ass, 18(!) Brimstones, along with 4 Meteors and 2 Asraams for self-defense along with a fuel tank. Fwah. -
LOL I won't start it if you won't...Originally posted by YourFather:LOL, are we going to start the great Rafale VS Typhoon war again? You people should know my position on this pretty well, heh heh. But its generally regarded that the Typhoon is the best fighter after the Raptor, at least B4 JSF comes out.
BTW, Typhoon in the CAS config really kicks ass, 18(!) Brimstones, along with 4 Meteors and 2 Asraams for self-defense along with a fuel tank. Fwah.
Best fighter yes but by whom? Its unlikely British aviation writers would vote for the Rafale would they? If you go to AFM's website forum, the pro-Typhoon anti-Rafale bias is as strong as the "J-10 is the world's best fighter" stance on the Chinese forums. By reading the link posted here on a couple of days back, the Korean pilots(ie the people who'll actually use the planes) prefer the Rafale. Says quite a lot actually...
BTW the 18 Brimstones config is just a theoretical loadout. I'd like to see that loadout in a real mission, will probably have the combat radius to fly from Tengah to Mersing and back
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Okay, ya la, we don't want to work against the US. But we can't really do jackshit to help them if they keep working against us by denying us of this and that.
Actually, I'm pretty torn between the Typhoon and the Rafale too. The rafale looks prettier than the Typhoon, that I must agree. I'm only hugging to the Typhoon simply cos the Luftwaffe will be using it. A plane both the RAF and Luftwaffe is working on together. The two titans of airpower 60 years ago. I don't know, call me sentimental. -
I remember recently that Singapore's status was elevated, and now Singapore can go into cooperative research projects with America, which we couldn't B4. So, I think our relations with US in the military area is progressing quite smoothly.
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Yeah...but the reality is that by giving them access to our bases, we helping us as well as we're helping them. While they basically have very little to lose if we deny them base access, we lose lots more in terms of our own security. They take action on arms transfers, we lose they don't lose. We hit back by denying basing rights, they lose a bit, we lose lots.Originally posted by Shotgun:Okay, ya la, we don't want to work against the US. But we can't really do jackshit to help them if they keep working against us by denying us of this and that.
Actually, I'm pretty torn between the Typhoon and the Rafale too. The rafale looks prettier than the Typhoon, that I must agree. I'm only hugging to the Typhoon simply cos the Luftwaffe will be using it. A plane both the RAF and Luftwaffe is working on together. The two titans of airpower 60 years ago. I don't know, call me sentimental. -
Why not get JSF too?
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Yeah for now...IF(and I hope not) Bush gets kicked out at the next election and another Clinton-type president comes in, all it takes is a signature for our status to get downgraded again.Originally posted by YourFather:I remember recently that Singapore's status was elevated, and now Singapore can go into cooperative research projects with America, which we couldn't B4. So, I think our relations with US in the military area is progressing quite smoothly. -
News guys:
PAUL LEWIS / WASHINGTON DC - Flight International -25th Jan 2002
A new turbofan platform is preferred although Hawkeye 2000 update is an option
The Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) has begun a new airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) system to replace its Northrop Grumman E-2C Hawkeyes. The emerging need is seen as a follow-on to the RSAF's purchase of new fighters.
Singapore's four E-2Cs are 15 years old and facing systems obsolescence. The aircraft were built to Group 0 standard, equipped with APS-138 radar, which puts them three configurations behind the US Navy's latest Hawkeye 2000 version. The upgrade of Egyptian and Japanese Group 0 aircraft will leave Singapore two standards behind any other operator by next year.
The country has the choice of upgrading its aircraft with the Hawkeye 2000's APS-145 radar, improved IFF identification system, new mission computer and tactical displays, or acquiring a new system. The indications are that the RSAF's leadership favours the latter option, and a jet-powered platform rather than another turboprop.
Singapore has been briefed on a number of systems. These include the Northrop Grumman MESA-radar equipped Boeing 737 ordered by Australia, a proposed AEW&C version of Fairchild Dornier's 728 regional jet equipped with either a Hawkeye radar or a new electronically steerable array or Raytheon's latest Airbus A321-based offering fitted with the Elta Phalcon.
Israel Aircraft Industries is also understood to have discussed with Singapore a radar equipped Gulfstream V business jet, as well as possibly a signals intelligence version of that platform. Some in Singapore advocate making the jump to a distributed network employing long endurance/high flying unmanned air vehicles, though the RSAF first choice remains a manned platform.
For now, Singapore is gathering information and any replacement decision will likely have to await Singapore's selection of a next generation fighter, suggest sources.
Looks like the Wedgetail may really come true, but I'd rather go for the Phalcon. -
Yeah man...the Phalcon sounds like a much more workable and capable option, although I fear that the Yanks would do a serious spot of leaning again, ie lean on us to buy American, lean on the Israelis not to sell it...Originally posted by YourFather:News guys:
For now, Singapore is gathering information and any replacement decision will likely have to await Singapore's selection of a next generation fighter, suggest sources.
Looks like the Wedgetail may really come true, but I'd rather go for the Phalcon.
Speaking of long range high altitude UAVs, how many of you have heard of LALEE. No? You should hear quite a bit more about it soon. Remember, you saw it here first! -
LALEE? Hmmm, rings a bell. Izzit a long range high alt UAV program that Singapore is undertaking with the Israelis? I think I saw it in the papers some time ago....
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yea thats the one....i believe more will be revealed at aa2002Originally posted by YourFather:LALEE? Hmmm, rings a bell. Izzit a long range high alt UAV program that Singapore is undertaking with the Israelis? I think I saw it in the papers some time ago.... -
Here's more, courtesy of Business Times:
Development of LALEE drone started 3 years ago, says Mindef's chief scientist
SINGAPORE Technologies Engineering's involvement in a study to conceptualise
and develop a long-endurance Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) was revealed yesterday by Lui Pao Chuen, chief defence scientist at the Ministry of Defence (Mindef).
Details of the study to develop a surveillance drone were unveiled for the first time at the Republic of Singapore Navy's Naval Platform Technology Seminar by Professor Lui.
"We have just completed a three-year-long study of LALEE which is an integrated airborne surveillance and communications system, designed to provide continuous temporal coverage over a very large area," he said.
"Providing a task group operating in the littorals with continuous surveillance from the air with this class of UAV will be considerably cheaper than operating current generation of surveillance and communications
platforms."
Prof Lui told BT that the UAV's name is an acronym which stands for "low altitude, long-enduring endurance". He explained that endurance refers to the drone's ability to stay aloft for long periods to scan the skies and the earth's surface continuously, while "enduring endurance" means a long service life.
The LALEE UAV is a twin-boom, single-span pilotless aircraft which carries its sensor payload slung between a central pod. No details on the LALEE's dimensions or performance were released, but Prof Lui did drop hints on the size of the drone.
"You don't realise how big it is because in the picture, there is no scale," he said.
"The radar is about eight metres long
by one-and-a-half metres deep. Can you imagine this sort of size hung underneath? And you can replace it with a smaller pod when you're carrying other types of sensors."
Prof Lui added that engineers from Mindef, theDefence Science and
Technology Agency and ST Engg are now finishing the UAV's preliminary design in partnership with its designer, Burt Rutan.
The US-based aircraft designer won worldwide
acclaim for creating Voyager, a revolutionary plane which made a record non-stop, un-refuelled round-the-world flight in 1986.
"He's a very prolific designer," Prof Lui said. "In the past 30 years he has designed one to two new aeroplanes every year. So the next step would be for us to take the design and build a proof-of-concept prototype aircraft, and at the same time prepare for full-scale development. This is a major
project in line with our belief that information is critical and therefore we're willing to put our resources to acquire the
information necessary for our war-fighting operations."
The local industry will be developing the aircraft in Singapore, he added, noting that Singapore's defence engineers have participated in aircraft developments before.
"The first one was the EC-120 (light helicopter), then there have also been upgrades of our aircraft like the A-4 and F-5," he said. "Our engineers have experience in integrating systems on board aircraft. The jump will be more of taking the total responsibility for this new aircraft. This is a serious study in order that you have an option to make a decision some time
in the future."
Prof Lui reflected that although the LALEE drone has drawn interest from several countries, demand for such a UAV was weak
several years ago. He said: "When we started our studies on LALEE three years ago, no one in the West was interested in it."
He noted that France, Sweden and the US have since expressed interest in the study. "They are talking to us because we invested three years of study," he said. "Any questions they have asked us, we've already looked at the questions and got some answers. And therefore we are a very good partner for potential
collaboration.
"We put ourselves in that position because we dared to take a step forward. We dare to dream, to do and not sit back and wait for other people to do and then follow them." -
But this program sounds a little like Global Hawk. Or at least a cut-down version of it. Why would the Americans like to get involve in such as project?Originally posted by Viper52:Development of LALEE drone started 3 years ago, says Mindef's chief scientist
SINGAPORE Technologies Engineering's involvement in a study to conceptualise
and develop a long-endurance Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) was revealed yesterday by Lui Pao Chuen, chief defence scientist at the Ministry of Defence (Mindef).
[snip]
He noted that France, Sweden and the US have since expressed interest in the study. "They are talking to us because we invested three years of study," he said. "Any questions they have asked us, we've already looked at the questions and got some answers. And therefore we are a very good partner for potential
collaboration.
"We put ourselves in that position because we dared to take a step forward. We dare to dream, to do and not sit back and wait for other people to do and then follow them."
However, I think this is a great project for Singapore. I think Singapore, in particular ST, would gain a lot of technology from running such a high tech project. -
I think in terms of technology, Wedgetail will definitely be the best. However, I got the feeling that what Boeing can offer RSAF is a slightly less capable version than the Aussie version. As part of the incentive package during their bidding for the RAAF AIR ?? project, they offered RAAF some technology which they should not have exported. With that, Boeing was fine by the US Arms Export committee for breaching the arms control law. Boeing had to paid a certain amount of fine.Originally posted by YourFather:News guys:
PAUL LEWIS / WASHINGTON DC - Flight International -25th Jan 2002
A new turbofan platform is preferred although Hawkeye 2000 update is an option
The Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) has begun a new airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) system to replace its Northrop Grumman E-2C Hawkeyes. The emerging need is seen as a follow-on to the RSAF's purchase of new fighters.
[snip]
Looks like the Wedgetail may really come true, but I'd rather go for the Phalcon.
The second reason for looking at Wedgetail is that Turkey has ordered Wedgetail to fulfil their needs. The US themselves will be evaluating Wedgetail too.
As for the Phalcon/Airbus combination, it was one of the bid for the RAAF AIR ?? project. It seems that the platform offered was very capable too. The thing is that the technology is already available, and I'm sure Israeli will throw in a couple of incentives such as SIGINT too. The drawback is that the technology though current is still not as advanced as the MESA radar, though it also employed electronically-scanned radar. However, the array surfaces are much smaller than the MESA radar and encapsulated within a Hawkeye type rotating disc. I think RSAF should view Wedgetail as preferred option, and the Phalcon as the alternate option. -
It isn't Global Hawk in the exact sense. If you look at its acronym, LA stands for Low Altitude. Its mainly for maritime surveillance, which is not currently a role for Global Hawk, although current Navy interest in a maritime surveillance version of the Global Hawk is at an all time high.
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The Wedgetail does not offer the same performance as the E-3 Sentry, however, its a much more cost effective option(more Bang for the buck). The Phalcon, under my impression, is a direct competitor to the Sentry, as it offers much higher performance than the Sentry. Besides, are you sure the Phalcons AESA radar is "encapsulated within a Hawkeye type rotating disc"? I remember a published photo of a plane with the Phalcon system not having any of the 'disc' as seen on the Sentry or Hawkeye.Originally posted by Joe Black:I think in terms of technology, Wedgetail will definitely be the best. However, I got the feeling that what Boeing can offer RSAF is a slightly less capable version than the Aussie version. As part of the incentive package during their bidding for the RAAF AIR ?? project, they offered RAAF some technology which they should not have exported. With that, Boeing was fine by the US Arms Export committee for breaching the arms control law. Boeing had to paid a certain amount of fine.
The second reason for looking at Wedgetail is that Turkey has ordered Wedgetail to fulfil their needs. The US themselves will be evaluating Wedgetail too.
As for the Phalcon/Airbus combination, it was one of the bid for the RAAF AIR ?? project. It seems that the platform offered was very capable too. The thing is that the technology is already available, and I'm sure Israeli will throw in a couple of incentives such as SIGINT too. The drawback is that the technology though current is still not as advanced as the MESA radar, though it also employed electronically-scanned radar. However, the array surfaces are much smaller than the MESA radar and encapsulated within a Hawkeye type rotating disc. I think RSAF should view Wedgetail as preferred option, and the Phalcon as the alternate option. -
The Phalcon radar is NOT incorporated into an overhead dish like the Hawkeye. The following links have photos of a 707 fitted with the system, and more info
http://www.iai.co.il/iai/dows/serve/item/english/1.1.4.2.9.8.html
http://www.elta-iai.com/site/catalog/AEWsys_2.asp
It seems like an extremely capable system, and would most certainly enhance our AEW capabilities to an unimaginable level. In short...BLOODY IMPRESSIVE -
Yup, it would be a tool for maritime recon to ensure security of the SLOC in this area. Also makes good sense, I'm sure one of the roles it would eventually play is over the horizon targetting of SSMs/ASMs. In this way basically it takes over part of the duties of the Fokker MPAs and Hawkeyes. At no risk to pilots.Originally posted by YourFather:It isn't Global Hawk in the exact sense. If you look at its acronym, LA stands for Low Altitude. Its mainly for maritime surveillance, which is not currently a role for Global Hawk, although current Navy interest in a maritime surveillance version of the Global Hawk is at an all time high. -
Bingo, it would be harder to spot and shoot down also.
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I wonder about its survivability, surveillance range and endurance. Why make it operate at low altitude? Surveillance range is reduced, and low altitude isn't really the best place for endurance,also, its more vulnerable to an increased range of anti-air weapons....
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I think its a matter of the craft capability, and weather also. Flying too high may not give quality feedback?
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Maybe we should take the low-altitude part of its name into context. Little has been revealed about its capabilities, it may say low but low compared to what? Low compared to AEW systems, low compared to a Tornado? We don't know till we learn more.Originally posted by YourFather:I wonder about its survivability, surveillance range and endurance. Why make it operate at low altitude? Surveillance range is reduced, and low altitude isn't really the best place for endurance,also, its more vulnerable to an increased range of anti-air weapons....