Is there a free market given all the GLCs in the market?
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Our GLCs are operating in the domestic sector of the business to take away many business opportunities which are badly needed by our own businesses to survive or be competititve.
In addition, our tax-and-recover government system of running the country is extremely anti-business. Even the MNCs will have to move away from here eventually as well because of higher operating costs due to direct and indirect taxes like double-charges on lands and triple charges on vehicles etc that make their operations uncompetitive.
If government understands fundamentals of economics they should know that by letting citizens make more monies with less taxes and charges monies will go round and round among the people more times and at the end the government coffers will grow more from higher volumes of taxes.
In this way, a pro-business government can create greater vibrancy and the domestic sector will grow more viable and competitive.[/b][/quote] -
To avoid the scourge of welfarism, government sets up all ministries and departments along the line of cost centres with each expected to break even or making surpluses.
Hence, government charges fees to recover all costs plus rentals or land costs and depreciations on assets and fixed equipment, paid for by the taxpayers.
Hence the taxes paid by citizens are not put to use for benefits of citizens but accumulated as surpluses and long-term reserves.
Under such tax-and-recover system of government, all ministries and statutory boards will become corporations which used taxpayers' monies to acquire lands becoming owners while charging for services at full costs inclusive of rentals and land costs. For lands and buildings already paid for by the public funds, such rentals or land costs will amount to profiteering or double taxations if the government charges for them again. It is to be noticed that every few years when there is a revaluation of lands and buildings all the ministries and statutory boards would be making many billions again in the form of off-budget surpluses.
If we add the off-budget surpluses to the budget surpluses the government is enriching itself at the expense of the people every year because of creative accounting and all the double and triple taxations.
Thus, HDB in selling flats built on lands acquired by the public should not charge for the land costs as to do so would amount to profiteering or double taxation.
Hospitals built on publicly acquired lands or buildings would be profiteering if they charge for rentals and land costs in the patient billings.
It is about time for government to stop double taxations to lessen the burdens on citizens and improve their livelihood. -
There is Singtel, Starhub, Sunpage and M1. Many other smaller ones coming in.Originally posted by soloasylum:let talk about communication sector.....
Where is the monopoly? -
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaOriginally posted by Salman:There is Singtel, Starhub, Sunpage and M1. Many other smaller ones coming in.
Where is the monopoly?
got four guy, got different name
ah beng
ah seng
ah heng
ah siao
so not all of them are guys?
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Originally posted by robertteh:
Govt don't go into existing markets. That is one thing you do not notice. If you look at the whole economy, govt is very selective and and do mostly export type businesses or businesses that the private sector will not go into. In effect, the govt actually craeted a lot of opportunities for locals with their ventures.
Our GLCs are operating in the domestic sector of the business to take away many business opportunities which are badly needed by our own businesses to survive or be competititve.
I think you are really baseless on this one.
In addition, our tax-and-recover government system of running the country is extremely anti-business. Even the MNCs will have to move away from here eventually as well because of higher operating costs due to direct and indirect taxes like double-charges on lands and triple charges on vehicles etc that make their operations uncompetitive.
Can you be more specific in your claim?
Don't you know that Singapore has a very low tax compared to most countries?
And how can we be anti business when we don't have value added tax?
The govt does understand it, thats why our income tax is very low.
If government understands fundamentals of economics they should know that by letting citizens make more monies with less taxes and charges monies will go round and round among the people more times and at the end the government coffers will grow more from higher volumes of taxes.
We do in fact have a pro business environment. Wait till you see how other countries operate.
In this way, a pro-business government can create greater vibrancy and the domestic sector will grow more viable and competitive. -
You mean they are girls?
so not all of them are guys? [/b] -
Originally posted by robertteh:
You are right, welfarism is a scourge. We must avoid it or end up like New Orleans.
To avoid the scourge of welfarism, government sets up all ministries and departments along the line of cost centres with each expected to break even or making surpluses.
I agree with charging all the costs except land cost.
Hence, government charges fees to recover all costs plus rentals or land costs and depreciations on assets and fixed equipment, paid for by the taxpayers.
First of all, we do need reserves. Only fools don't keep reserves.
Hence the taxes paid by citizens are not put to use for benefits of citizens but accumulated as surpluses and long-term reserves.
Secondly, these surpluses go into public works or investments, they are not kept sitting in a vault.
I don't understand what you mean by double taxation. I think you have a wrong definition of it. Please explain yourself.
Under such tax-and-recover system of government, all ministries and statutory boards will become corporations which used taxpayers' monies to acquire lands becoming owners while charging for services at full costs inclusive of rentals and land costs. For lands and buildings already paid for by the public funds, such rentals or land costs will amount to profiteering or double taxations if the government charges for them again. It is to be noticed that every few years when there is a revaluation of lands and buildings all the ministries and statutory boards would be making many billions again in the form of off-budget surpluses.
BTW, do you know that health care is subsidised in Singapore?
Do you know what will happen if you want to fully subsidise health care? Have you ever noticed the health care system in UK and Canada?
Again you gotta define what you mean by double taxation. You have not been clear about this one.
If we add the off-budget surpluses to the budget surpluses the government is enriching itself at the expense of the people every year because of creative accounting and all the double and triple taxations.
Why is that so?
Thus, HDB in selling flats built on lands acquired by the public should not charge for the land costs as to do so would amount to profiteering or double taxation.
If you don't charge land cost, land would either be misused or Singapore would be bought over by foreigners.
I don't think hospitals charge land cost.
Hospitals built on publicly acquired lands or buildings would be profiteering if they charge for rentals and land costs in the patient billings.
It is about time for government to stop double taxations to lessen the burdens on citizens and improve their livelihood.
But if they do, then I disagree with it.
You got to show us proof of your claims to be fair. -
benchmark SOEs from other countries and u'll understand wad i'm saying. The s'pore GLC model has been a success and countries are seeking to emulate the modelsOriginally posted by I-like-flings(m):WORLD CLASS???? which world u talking about?? Mars? -
i got rid of some irrelevant points from your quote. my apologies. anyway... our GLCs had to enter these risky industries. It's not that they dun understand the risk involved, but they had to do it in order to boost and upgrade our technology level and capabilities.Originally posted by robertteh:Our world-class institutions have tried to go into technological applications like disk drives, micro-chips, micro-electronics, bio-medical and pharmaceuticals, but before they started they lost $700 millions in Micropolis and CSM is still struggling with losses in hundreds of millions.
What is so world-class about corporatizations of existing serviecs to create bigger companies which were started by some private individuals just to make them bigger and look good. This kind of business will not bring in the technological advancement or start-ups. There is no evidence that our scholars or public servants possess the true entrepreneurship.
Now Yeo Cheow Tong tried to say that biomedicals would take up to 30 years to see results. After so many boos boos and U-Turns, and even MRT and Nicol highway fiascos, we are waiting for one world-class ventures to take off.
i would like to suggest something. It seems that people that the government is inefficient and goes out to make life hard for the people.
why do u think they would engage in such behaviour?
Singapore is unique is 1 aspect. The PAP is dominant. With a country that has a dominant party, they dun have to worry abt winning the election and can focus their efforts on improving the economy. Its easy seeing things from the outside and criticising, but S'pore has done extremely well thus far. i am not saying that we should be complacent, but being overly-critical is not going to get us anywhere either -
u wanna see what happened to England'sor India's communication sector the moment they liberalised?Originally posted by soloasylum:let talk about communication sector.....
again i would like to stress... protective policies is not a bad thing. if u overly- liberalise, foreign companies come in ... acquire our best companies... and the wealth gets transferred to foreigners! do u want that???
i would like u to think abt Korea's case. They were forced to open up their economy due to IMF's policies. Within 3 years, 40% of the countries wealth got transferred into foreign hands -
people see the states as being a free economy. that is anything from the truth. And YES, we are the 2nd most open economy behind HK.Originally posted by soloasylum:is it??? i always thought its states & japan... cos nothing is impossible there
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The actual strength of Singapore is that we can implement plans quickly w/o too much political correctness. That is one thing that many Singaporeans do not appreciate at all cos they don't know what is happening to countries in North America and Europe.
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YES!!Originally posted by Salman:The actual strength of Singapore is that we can implement plans quickly w/o too much political correctness. That is one thing that many Singaporeans do not appreciate at all cos they don't know what is happening to countries in North America and Europe.
honestly, i ain't too fond of the PAP... i cant believe i am defending them!! -
[/b][/quote]Originally posted by robertteh:Our GLCs are operating in the domestic sector of the business to take away many business opportunities which are badly needed by our own businesses to survive or be competititve.
misconception. They enter new industries to rectify market failure. again this is not unique to S'pore -
Again i would like to stress. the purpose of GLCs is to rectify market failure. Are GLCs really that pervasive that it stifles entrepreneurship? China's economy 15 years ago.. depended on SOEs for 80% of their economy. Once the socialist stance was laxed ... the private enterprises took the lead and not contribute to 70% of the economy with SOEs playing a significantly smaller role.
Can we reflect and think abt it. is it really the government's fault? i do agree that they have room for improvements, but shifting the blame to them for everything... isn't a solution -
Its ok mate. Deep down inside i know that u love to wear white. Keep on defending the PAPpy mastersOriginally posted by ben1xy:YES!!
honestly, i ain't too fond of the PAP... i cant believe i am defending them!! -
erm.. i am focusing on the issue. Dui shi bu dui ren.Originally posted by meleagent:Its ok mate. Deep down inside i know that u love to wear white. Keep on defending the PAPpy masters
wad the GLCs are doing makes good economics sense. -
The reason you gave for GLCs going into domestic business was not the same reason as given by ministers defending that decision. Some ministers and MPs have disagreed too with government going into domestic businesses but I think they have been sidelined.Originally posted by ben1xy:Again i would like to stress. the purpose of GLCs is to rectify market failure. Are GLCs really that pervasive that it stifles entrepreneurship? China's economy 15 years ago.. depended on SOEs for 80% of their economy. Once the socialist stance was laxed ... the private enterprises took the lead and not contribute to 70% of the economy with SOEs playing a significantly smaller role.
Can we reflect and think abt it. is it really the government's fault? i do agree that they have room for improvements, but shifting the blame to them for everything... isn't a solution
GLCs have gone into all kinds of domestic businesses and that is a fact too difficult to hide. Cleantech, a subsidiary of HDB has gone into cleaning service and landscaping. Sembawang has gone into refuse disposal.
There are many other GLCs competing with citizens for a living. There is no need to be so narrow-minded or self-serving in running a country. Leaders should not be overly concerned with their immediate gains or surpluses as there are many worthwhile other objectives and by governing objectively they could over the long run achieve more. More surpluses will come back through more taxes from more successful private sector businesses.
It will be quite presumptuous for our leaders to reply in the next breath that if they don't go into domestic sector of business, some others like the foreign companies will do so. It is so short-sighted this kind of reasoning on the part of our leaders of world-class calibre. -
i am arguing more towards the technological sector. and if wad u say is true.. then i'll agree with u on this point and they should privatised these sectors. However, as mentioned... intervention is needed for high tech sectors.Originally posted by robertteh:The reason you gave for GLCs going into domestic business was not the same reason as given by ministers defending that decision. Some ministers and MPs have disagreed too with government going into domestic businesses but I think they have been sidelined.
GLCs have gone into all kinds of domestic businesses and that is a fact too difficult to hide. Cleantech, a subsidiary of HDB has gone into cleaning service and landscaping. Sembawang has gone into refuse disposal.
i agreeOriginally posted by robertteh:Leaders should not be overly concerned with their immediate gains or surpluses as there are many worthwhile other objectives and by governing objectively they could over the long run achieve more. More surpluses will come back through more taxes from more successful private sector businesses.
i hope u dun twist my words. from ur replies i am sure u r intelligent enough to understand wad i was trying to say.Originally posted by robertteh:some others like the foreign companies will do so. It is so short-sighted this kind of reasoning on the part of our leaders of world-class calibre. -
any1 knows Singtel, Starhub, and M1 are controlled by who?Originally posted by Salman:There is Singtel, Starhub, Sunpage and M1. Many other smaller ones coming in.
Where is the monopoly? -
i noe i noeOriginally posted by SnowFlag:any1 knows Singtel, Starhub, and M1 are controlled by who?
the exceptional famiLEE -
Originally posted by robertteh:
I don't think there is anything wrong if they can compete efficiently.
The reason you gave for GLCs going into domestic business was not the same reason as given by ministers defending that decision. Some ministers and MPs have disagreed too with government going into domestic businesses but I think they have been sidelined.
GLCs have gone into all kinds of domestic businesses and that is a fact too difficult to hide. Cleantech, a subsidiary of HDB has gone into cleaning service and landscaping. Sembawang has gone into refuse disposal.
There is no restrcitions on such businesses and anyone can compete.
Aren't the people who work in GLCs citizens too? What are you talking about?
There are many other GLCs competing with citizens for a living.
GLCs get taxed too, don't you know?
There is no need to be so narrow-minded or self-serving in running a country. Leaders should not be overly concerned with their immediate gains or surpluses as there are many worthwhile other objectives and by governing objectively they could over the long run achieve more. More surpluses will come back through more taxes from more successful private sector businesses.
I absolutely agree with the govt on this one.
It will be quite presumptuous for our leaders to reply in the next breath that if they don't go into domestic sector of business, some others like the foreign companies will do so. It is so short-sighted this kind of reasoning on the part of our leaders of world-class calibre.
I will rather have our people having the business than to have it foreign owned.
This is a long sighted planning. -
Aren't foreign talents welcomed in GLC too?Originally posted by Salman:Aren't the people who work in GLCs citizens too? What are you talking about? -
Long sighted don't have the same meaning as far-sighted, you know?Originally posted by Salman:I absolutely agree with the govt on this one.
I will rather have our people having the business than to have it foreign owned.
This is a long sighted planning.
Many ah pek also long sighted -
The biggest employers of foreign talent is the private sector, not govt or GLCs. I think the govt has stricter crietria when it comes to employing foreigners. Don't you know?Originally posted by SnowFlag:Aren't foreign talents welcomed in GLC too?