Did pianist Melvyn Tan get off too lightly?
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Originally posted by jeevna:
In the same line of argument, we should then abolish NS and fly all out Singaporean man. Perhaps, we who then have a greater number of talented musicians, artisites, engineers, scientists etc etc...
An alternative view: Perhaps it wasnt so much a decision to run away from NS as to develop his talent? Is that so unlikely? What if there was no way he could have developed his talent while serving NS here, or if the enforced break while serving NS meant that he could never go back to music at that level. Would that make a difference? Would that not have deprived the world of a top musical talent? Would that have been better, purely because it would have appeased some? [b]After all, parity means equality on both sides. Let's compare like with like. How many others with that top talent or the promise of becoming a top talent are presently serving? or have served?[/b] -
GE coming...
maybe should ask our dear pap candidates why their pap is letting this happen...
better still... ask during rally...
make them sweat...
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anyone living in cheng san???
ask george yeo why pianist can skip NS... -
I agree with one of the guys who said that people who AWOL had to go DB and all Melvyn got was a fine. That's life, life is unfair. If these guys had the money, they probably won't end up in such plights. Money talks, connections talk... in this meritocratic society.
I was wondering what kind of effect this negative publicity will do to his performances in Singapore. Maybe arty-farty people won't care about his past, but man, just imagine the money he's making.
Perhaps, ordinary guys will think twice about going. The irony is, there are actually discounts for NSFs.
Look on the bright side, if Singapore had spent the money training him, I'm sure he may be on the first flight out of Singapore should a war occur. So don't bother... -
i will not be surprised if the rich and well-connected run when a war breaks out
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If you watched faranheit 911, u noe.
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I am not so sure Singapore is worth defending, going by the way they treat their own. He won't be alone on his flight out of Singapore...Originally posted by fortknight:Look on the bright side, if Singapore had spent the money training him, I'm sure he may be on the first flight out of Singapore should a war occur. So don't bother... -
To me it's just all a case of sour grapes.
Ask yourself at 18, in a foreign land, faced with the opportunity of a lifetime to follow your dream.Or walk away from it all and put on your no.4 for your country and watch that one chance slide away.
He had the chance.He took it.Like it or not, he had the guts.The same guts that a same person would have if he gave up his dream to serve NS.
Live in his shoes and lay off all the sanctimonious bullcrap if you have an iota of EQ.Don't liberally misuse the idea of national defence and patriotism.You can't see the world in black and white.
He had the talent, he had the money to back him up.You don't like this world, too bad.This is how the world works.Which is why hawkers' sons still aspire to be top dog, so that their kids would be white horses.
Realpolitik my friends, realpolitik.I've done my time for my nation, yet I WILL not condemn him.I would rather praise him for returning than condemn him.He could have just stayed abroad and not turned back.If you want to use the excuse that he did so for money, so what?Are you a saint?Are we all saints?
We are flawed individuals and the less one judges another, especially if he has not hurt you, the better.Blame the system.It is a human construct and it has flaws.Don't wallop the man for playing the system just because you could not.
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Guys, if he came back to serve, his only real chance to establish himself as a musician would have evaporated.Originally posted by LazerLordz:To me it's just all a case of sour grapes.
Ask yourself at 18, in a foreign land, faced with the opportunity of a lifetime to follow your dream.Or walk away from it all and put on your no.4 for your country and watch that one chance slide away.
He had the chance.He took it.Like it or not, he had the guts.The same guts that a same person would have if he gave up his dream to serve NS.
Live in his shoes and lay off all the sanctimonious bullcrap if you have an iota of EQ.Don't liberally misuse the idea of national defence and patriotism.You can't see the world in black and white.
He had the talent, he had the money to back him up.You don't like this world, too bad.This is how the world works.Which is why hawkers' sons still aspire to be top dog, so that their kids would be white horses.
Realpolitik my friends, realpolitik.I've done my time for my nation, yet I WILL not condemn him.I would rather praise him for returning than condemn him.He could have just stayed abroad and not turned back.If you want to use the excuse that he did so for money, so what?Are you a saint?Are we all saints?
We are flawed individuals and the less one judges another, especially if he has not hurt you, the better.Blame the system.It is a human construct and it has flaws.Don't wallop the man for playing the system just because you could not.
After having trained for 7-8 years to become a musician, wouldnt it be cruel to take away his chance at a decent livelihood? After all, its the only thing he trained for. We as Singaporeans of all people, in a society where specialisation is so highly valued (perhaps too much), shoudl understand that.
What price if he served but then had to do odd jobs the rest of his working life because of his service to his country?
And really, if we have so much talent in the counrty that we have world beaters and potential world beaters beating the doors down to say that they shoudl be excused from full service because they may become somebody one day - then isnt that a happy problem to have?
The truth is, we DONT have a slew of such talented people. When the few that we do have do come to attention, we really should be nurturing them any way they need. Let's not give in to the tall poppy syndrome, where we want to cut down all the tall poppies. That's not serviing the interests of the country.
I've done my service to the country and am proud of it. Loved it, hated it, but learned from it. That's the important thing. But despite having served, I don;t think that anything is to be gained from persecuting him for having made the choice to establish a career. If anything, his success vindicates his choice.
As for getting off with just a fine - what the Straits Times has only belatedly highlighted is that there have been others that have gotten off with fines too. Am sure that the cases they highlighted are only the tip of the iceberg. After all, they were only mentioning the reported cases. As those in the know should know, hundreds of cases go through the Courts every day - too many to report. It is conceivable that there would be others that have come back and not jailed. So let's not assume that Melvyn Tan's is the only case that gets a fine. It would be the easy thing to believe, wouldn't it? Because it riles our sense of justice and fair play. After all, we all like to feel like champions of the good, defenders of the country and all that. But really, the facts - which appear not to have been presented unambiguously by the ST - indicate that Melvyn is not the only person to get a fine for the same / a similar offence.
So all this frenzy about blaming the govt, blaming the judiciary, (because really that is what's happening, isnt it) blaming Malvyn Tan, blaming his parents - is really misplaced.
As for Ben Nadarajan's article in the Sunday Times this week - it was just vicious. He made too many assumptions about the family and about Melvyn Tan as well. From the trash he writes I doubt he knows the family personally. He has used the cover of journalism to spew vitriol. That's not journalism. Sadly that appears to be the standard our local press has descended to. Really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Regards. -
gongdaozhizhairenxing.
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I don't find it surprising.In my circle,there are many who have done so, and I'm quite surprised that the majority of Singaporeans do not know that there have been many youths who skip NS because their parents gave them the opportunity to do so.Originally posted by jeevna:Guys, if he came back to serve, his only real chance to establish himself as a musician would have evaporated.
After having trained for 7-8 years to become a musician, wouldnt it be cruel to take away his chance at a decent livelihood? After all, its the only thing he trained for. We as Singaporeans of all people, in a society where specialisation is so highly valued (perhaps too much), shoudl understand that.
What price if he served but then had to do odd jobs the rest of his working life because of his service to his country?
And really, if we have so much talent in the counrty that we have world beaters and potential world beaters beating the doors down to say that they shoudl be excused from full service because they may become somebody one day - then isnt that a happy problem to have?
The truth is, we DONT have a slew of such talented people. When the few that we do have do come to attention, we really should be nurturing them any way they need. Let's not give in to the tall poppy syndrome, where we want to cut down all the tall poppies. That's not serviing the interests of the country.
I've done my service to the country and am proud of it. Loved it, hated it, but learned from it. That's the important thing. But despite having served, I don;t think that anything is to be gained from persecuting him for having made the choice to establish a career. If anything, his success vindicates his choice.
As for getting off with just a fine - what the Straits Times has only belatedly highlighted is that there have been others that have gotten off with fines too. Am sure that the cases they highlighted are only the tip of the iceberg. After all, they were only mentioning the reported cases. As those in the know should know, hundreds of cases go through the Courts every day - too many to report. It is conceivable that there would be others that have come back and not jailed. So let's not assume that Melvyn Tan's is the only case that gets a fine. It would be the easy thing to believe, wouldn't it? Because it riles our sense of justice and fair play. After all, we all like to feel like champions of the good, defenders of the country and all that. But really, the facts - which appear not to have been presented unambiguously by the ST - indicate that Melvyn is not the only person to get a fine for the same / a similar offence.
So all this frenzy about blaming the govt, blaming the judiciary, (because really that is what's happening, isnt it) blaming Malvyn Tan, blaming his parents - is really misplaced.
As for Ben Nadarajan's article in the Sunday Times this week - it was just vicious. He made too many assumptions about the family and about Melvyn Tan as well. From the trash he writes I doubt he knows the family personally. He has used the cover of journalism to spew vitriol. That's not journalism. Sadly that appears to be the standard our local press has descended to. Really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Regards.
Many people really need to open their eyes wider.This is a really unnecessary attack, as you have said, by that columnnist. -
WHO SAYS HE IS THE ONLY PIANIST IN SG?Originally posted by jeevna:Guys, if he came back to serve, his only real chance to establish himself as a musician would have evaporated.
After having trained for 7-8 years to become a musician, wouldnt it be cruel to take away his chance at a decent livelihood? After all, its the only thing he trained for. We as Singaporeans of all people, in a society where specialisation is so highly valued (perhaps too much), shoudl understand that.
What price if he served but then had to do odd jobs the rest of his working life because of his service to his country?
And really, if we have so much talent in the counrty that we have world beaters and potential world beaters beating the doors down to say that they shoudl be excused from full service because they may become somebody one day - then isnt that a happy problem to have?
The truth is, we DONT have a slew of such talented people. When the few that we do have do come to attention, we really should be nurturing them any way they need. Let's not give in to the tall poppy syndrome, where we want to cut down all the tall poppies. That's not serviing the interests of the country.
I've done my service to the country and am proud of it. Loved it, hated it, but learned from it. That's the important thing. But despite having served, I don;t think that anything is to be gained from persecuting him for having made the choice to establish a career. If anything, his success vindicates his choice.
As for getting off with just a fine - what the Straits Times has only belatedly highlighted is that there have been others that have gotten off with fines too. Am sure that the cases they highlighted are only the tip of the iceberg. After all, they were only mentioning the reported cases. As those in the know should know, hundreds of cases go through the Courts every day - too many to report. It is conceivable that there would be others that have come back and not jailed. So let's not assume that Melvyn Tan's is the only case that gets a fine. It would be the easy thing to believe, wouldn't it? Because it riles our sense of justice and fair play. After all, we all like to feel like champions of the good, defenders of the country and all that. But really, the facts - which appear not to have been presented unambiguously by the ST - indicate that Melvyn is not the only person to get a fine for the same / a similar offence.
So all this frenzy about blaming the govt, blaming the judiciary, (because really that is what's happening, isnt it) blaming Malvyn Tan, blaming his parents - is really misplaced.
As for Ben Nadarajan's article in the Sunday Times this week - it was just vicious. He made too many assumptions about the family and about Melvyn Tan as well. From the trash he writes I doubt he knows the family personally. He has used the cover of journalism to spew vitriol. That's not journalism. Sadly that appears to be the standard our local press has descended to. Really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Regards.
HERES A SINGAPORE TALENT WHO DOESNT ESCAPE NS!!!
http://pianospa.chester.sg -
since that is the case the law must be changed to reflect the seriousness of the crime. the fact that a lot of people are doing it dont make him right.Originally posted by LazerLordz:I don't find it surprising.In my circle,there are many who have done so, and I'm quite surprised that the majority of Singaporeans do not know that there have been many youths who skip NS because their parents gave them the opportunity to do so.
Many people really need to open their eyes wider.This is a really unnecessary attack, as you have said, by that columnnist.
what he did was disgusting. -
How to skip NS.
Take a long holiday to the US or Australia when wife is 8-mths pregnant. Give birth there and get foreign citizenship for the child. Return back to Sg and before the 12 birthday, relinquish Sg citizenship.
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Didn't realize there are so many scumbags around in Singapore. Wouldn't be a bad idea to use them as targets for live firing practice.Originally posted by LazerLordz:I don't find it surprising.In my circle,there are many who have done so, and I'm quite surprised that the majority of Singaporeans do not know that there have been many youths who skip NS because their parents gave them the opportunity to do so.
Many people really need to open their eyes wider.This is a really unnecessary attack, as you have said, by that columnnist.
The lawyers as reported in the media said some were imprisoned, not just fined. It appears the elite gets away with a fine, the non-elite gets imprisonment and the ah beng who goes AWOL for a few days gets Kranji Detention Barracks.
I don't know which circle you come from but if there are so many guys with no balls around, could it be possible that there are still eunuchs around? -
Ask you frankly, if you were a kid and your path was planned out.You wouldn't have much of a say wouldn't you.What I'm saying is that I know quite a few who have had the opportunity to leave and migrate.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Didn't realize there are so many scumbags around in Singapore. Wouldn't be a bad idea to use them as targets for live firing practice.
The lawyers as reported in the media said some were imprisoned, not just fined. It appears the elite gets away with a fine, the non-elite gets imprisonment and the ah beng who goes AWOL for a few days gets Kranji Detention Barracks.
I don't know which circle you come from but if there are so many guys with no balls around, could it be possible that there are still eunuchs around?
It's all perfectly legal, the only speedbump is when your new country does not recognise dual citizenship and you, as a result, cannot surrender your citizenship before 18, thus incurring the offence under the Enlistment Act.I served my time, they chose to leave, it's to each his own inevitably.If they choose not to stay here, why force them to defend the nation.
Defending the nation should only be a duty that has to be carried out by those who wish to enjoy her fruits of security. -
Now Mindef wants to tighten the laws so there'll be no more quitters.
Don't they realise this case proofs that only by becoming a quitter can a talented kid only have a bright future at home! Juz look at Melvyn.
Staying and kanna NS just only become losers and when you have losers, they kowtow and welcome back quitters like Melvyn.
NS is really a stupid "loser-making" system.
Embrace it sure gone case liao. -
Haiyah, at the end of the day, whether you get the maximum or minimum sentence under whatever law will depend not on the severity of your crime, but on what social-economic strata you belong to.
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Thats why i believe in ren bu wei ji, tian zhu di mie...
Winner takes all, losers works for all.....reality sucks..tats the fact..live with it.. -
link Http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/181766/1/.html
quote in parts/
SINGAPORE : Pianist Melvyn Tan, the man at the centre of the recent controversy over National Service evasion, said he would defer his public appearance at the Esplanade and not be a judge in a local competition.
Mr Tan said what has happened has caused his parents and him anguish, and he has decided to defer public appearances over the NS debate and to continue without his further aggravating it.
unquote/
This case cause anguish to a lot of NSmen and yet how can he and family be anguish. Seems like he came back to be treated like a celebraty and expect red carpet and not a an NS DEFAULTER. All the more he should be jailed. -
Originally posted by AF2005:
The peanut man was treated like a celebrity for many years resulting in golden taps being installed in private closet, and all kinds of board room's deals by directors compromising on spending of monies and awarding of contracts.
[b]link Http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/181766/1/.html
quote in parts/
SINGAPORE : Pianist Melvyn Tan, the man at the centre of the recent controversy over National Service evasion, said he would defer his public appearance at the Esplanade and not be a judge in a local competition.
Mr Tan said what has happened has caused his parents and him anguish, and he has decided to defer public appearances over the NS debate and to continue without his further aggravating it.
unquote/
This case cause anguish to a lot of NSmen and yet how can he and family be anguish. Seems like he came back to be treated like a celebraty and expect red carpet and not a an NS DEFAULTER. All the more he should be jailed.
Our meritocracy tends to favor all the elites regarding them as some special creatures. As can be seen in NKF this is widely practised by leaders and ministers in every department and ministry. Such elitism will eventually result in compromises in works and performances.
Highways will collapse because elites are not being closely supervised or held responsible for performance resulting in compromises in safety and other problems. -
Yip Yip Hurray! Jump up, clap hands and danced aroundOriginally posted by AF2005:link Http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/181766/1/.html
quote in parts/
SINGAPORE : Pianist Melvyn Tan, the man at the centre of the recent controversy over National Service evasion, said he would defer his public appearance at the Esplanade and not be a judge in a local competition.
Mr Tan said what has happened has caused his parents and him anguish, and he has decided to defer public appearances over the NS debate and to continue without his further aggravating it.
unquote/
This case cause anguish to a lot of NSmen and yet how can he and family be anguish. Seems like he came back to be treated like a celebraty and expect red carpet and not a an NS DEFAULTER. All the more he should be jailed.
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sour grapes?? tats a very irresponsible remark my fren.. u praised him bcos he have the guts to escape NS?? so r u going to praise all the criminals in prison cos they got the GUTS to commit crime? i have many frens who r australian PR oreadi yet they still come back just to serve their NS which they dun have to.. these ppl r who i praise n admire.. not some faggot wif GUTS to default NS.. n oso pls tink of those poor chaps who have the guts to try to finish their 2.4km run when they not feeling well n collasped in the process.. n the poor guardsman who have the guts to try to complete his survival course n drowned in the commando dunking case.. these r wat i call guts!!Originally posted by LazerLordz:To me it's just all a case of sour grapes.
Ask yourself at 18, in a foreign land, faced with the opportunity of a lifetime to follow your dream.Or walk away from it all and put on your no.4 for your country and watch that one chance slide away.
He had the chance.He took it.Like it or not, he had the guts.The same guts that a same person would have if he gave up his dream to serve NS.
Live in his shoes and lay off all the sanctimonious bullcrap if you have an iota of EQ.Don't liberally misuse the idea of national defence and patriotism.You can't see the world in black and white.
He had the talent, he had the money to back him up.You don't like this world, too bad.This is how the world works.Which is why hawkers' sons still aspire to be top dog, so that their kids would be white horses.
Realpolitik my friends, realpolitik.I've done my time for my nation, yet I WILL not condemn him.I would rather praise him for returning than condemn him.He could have just stayed abroad and not turned back.If you want to use the excuse that he did so for money, so what?Are you a saint?Are we all saints?
We are flawed individuals and the less one judges another, especially if he has not hurt you, the better.Blame the system.It is a human construct and it has flaws.Don't wallop the man for playing the system just because you could not. -
Calling it a case of sour grapes and illustrating the unsaid truth does not equate to praise.If you see it as praise, then my theory has just validated itself.Take you time to read what I have to say and you will realise the nuance behind it.Originally posted by monoslayer:sour grapes?? tats a very irresponsible remark my fren.. u praised him bcos he have the guts to escape NS?? so r u going to praise all the criminals in prison cos they got the GUTS to commit crime? i have many frens who r australian PR oreadi yet they still come back just to serve their NS which they dun have to.. these ppl r who i praise n admire.. not some faggot wif GUTS to default NS.. n oso pls tink of those poor chaps who have the guts to try to finish their 2.4km run when they not feeling well n collasped in the process.. n the poor guardsman who have the guts to try to complete his survival course n drowned in the commando dunking case.. these r wat i call guts!!
Must a person feel sick and want to kill him to be normal?Can't we all who have served, feel proud of our service and leave the chap alone?What the fark more do you want to do to him beyond the legal statute?He's a British citizen as of today, and his offence committed when he was a Singaporean, was covered under the law as of the year he absconded.
Grow up, get some guts and serve your nation the way you can, and not waste time acting judge and jury. At least I wore my uniform with pride and not with a lasting sense of bitterness.Focus on what you can do, not what person B could not do. -
which part of my sentence m i "acting judge n jury?" u choose to support him for his GUTS is ur business.. u give ur view on tis matter n i chip in my 2 cents worth.. jus tat i feel pity for those who died while serving their country, serve DB cos of some minor cases n tis pianist jus pay $$$ for defaulting NS..Originally posted by LazerLordz:Calling it a case of sour grapes and illustrating the unsaid truth does not equate to praise.If you see it as praise, then my theory has just validated itself.Take you time to read what I have to say and you will realise the nuance behind it.
Must a person feel sick and want to kill him to be normal?Can't we all who have served, feel proud of our service and leave the chap alone?What the fark more do you want to do to him beyond the legal statute?He's a British citizen as of today, and his offence committed when he was a Singaporean, was covered under the law as of the year he absconded.
Grow up, get some guts and serve your nation the way you can, and not waste time acting judge and jury. At least I wore my uniform with pride and not with a lasting sense of bitterness.Focus on what you can do, not what person B could not do.