Current practice to engage audit firm to investigate wrongs.
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During one seminar about corporate governance conducted by NTUC Insurance some time back, I asked: "Why practise employing audit companies to sit on audit commitee when so many existing wrong doings were caused due to negligence or compromise by audit firms?"
No satisfactory explanations were given why there is still the old practice of engaging audit firms to do checking on wrong doings when clearly audit firms have failed to reveal many problems resulting in malpractices or collapses of so many large and small firms alike.
Yet we have adopted such a strong practice in Singapore of using audit firms to check on mismanagement or malpractices. Surely something is wrong?
What is the reason for continuing practice to use audit firms for investigation of malpractices?
Is it because the government itself is using audit firms to report on their works and performance? Therefore to avoid such possible tie with audit firms or future cover-ups or compromise, citizens should ask for more independent panels to check on wrong doings or malpractices and not those with business relations with government. -
During one seminar about corporate governance conducted by NTUC Insurance some time back, I asked: "Why practise employing audit companies to sit on audit commitee when so many existing wrong doings were caused due to negligence or compromise by audit firms?"
What do you suggest, no audit at all?
Do you know what is the process of auditing and its limitations?
BTW, when you say so many wrong doings, what do you mean by so many? Can you name us the cases?
How did they answer you? What would be a satisfactory answer to you? Please explain.
No satisfactory explanations were given why there is still the old practice of engaging audit firms to do checking on wrong doings when clearly audit firms have caused many problems resulting in malpractices or collapses of so many large and small firms alike.
Collpase of companies can be due to marketing, wrong decisions, high costs etc, few are due to accounting fraud.
Auidts check on fraud or accounting errors, not on mismanagement. You need to understand that.
Yet we have adopted such a strong practice in Singapore of using audit firms to check on mismanagement or malpractices. Surely something is wrong?
Are you suggesting discontinue of audits? What is your suggestion for an alternative?
What is the reason for continuing practice to use audit firms for investigation of malpractices?
There you go again, spinning and issue to throw straws at the govt.
Is it because the government itself is currently relying on some big audit firms to report on their works and performance? Therefore to avoid such possible tie with audit firms and at the end any cover-ups or compromise, citizens should ask for more independent overseers to check on wrong doings or malpractices and not those with business relations with government.
Independent over seers? Like? -
the recent scandals of the listed companies are good examples.
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and they are all audited by auditorsOriginally posted by dragg:the recent scandals of the listed companies are good examples.
eg. Enron
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Aren't the auditors the ones who exposed them?
Get your facts right before you spit. -
Audit is a farce. The company pays the auditor fees to audit the accounts hence there is the element of conflict of interest. The company is free to change auditor as they pay them fees. The auditor will try his best to pass the accounts as true and fair so that they can work on the next company, but there is the stick of legal liability from the public if they screw up. Worst still these companies often offer more lucrative consulting contracts to influence these auditors. The problems of auditing industry can be seen in US where there are so many financial scandals.
In an audit, it is easier for companies with big clout to doctor accounts or bend rules. MP Davinder Singh was saying the level of the corporate governance is not as high as the western counterparts. Some Boards have many family members on the boards and are more likely to make decisions that are detrimental to the public investors and benefit of family members.
If you are talking about Goverment Sector, the level accountability and tranparency is much lower.The GIC who manages our reserves had 3 traders who were fined for insider trading. This was discovered by the Japanese Authorities and informed MAS. Initially they were only fined by MAS and GIC refused to sack them. Later they were merely removed from the operations in Japan but retained in GIC. I think the Japanese authorities gave singapore face by not prosecuting the case in Japan. I am not familiar with Japanese Laws but in US if you commit insider trading, it is a criminal offence. Martha Stewart, a celebrity went to jail because of insider trading. To let off insiders who trade on price sensitive information lightly sends a wrong signal on accountability and tranparency.
Its important to have a system of check and balances, or you may find gold taps and all sorts of nonsense. The argument of not opening GICs to audit due to fear of foreign speculator attacks is a weak one. The president in his private capacity should then be able to audit the accounts. Why was an ex-president denied an internal audit of the accounts? -
Deleted because of repeat post of the same message
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Any auditors care to comment on this? Anyway this is just a generalization right? I mean auditors are humans too after all and mistakes are human -
auditors being auditors, i have no problems with...
consultants disguised as auditors, are the cause of almost ALL the problems in organisations..
i have taken consultants to task before... they have the audacity to tell us "i have no idea what your organisation does".. so i quipped "and we are going to implement your recommendations?"
the big bosses were not happy.. and strangely.. they were not happy with ME! -
By the way Salman, the auditors exposed them because they wanted to protect themselves from legal liablity. If the threat wasnt there, they might probably pass it as True and fair. Remember Enron and the collapse of Arthur Andersen? The problem with audit is big companies have too much clout to influence the Audit. Robert was very observant and had a point. There is an element of conflict of interest.
I dont see the problem as evil or bad auditors. The system of auditing has some inherent problems. It is just like paying police constables $500 a month then expect them not to be corrupt,be independent and fair. Of course we shouldn't twist the argument to say we should pay police constables $10,000 a month to prevent corruption. A comparison must be done with other countries, study the feasibility and make a reasonable decision on wages. -
its not the auditors that exposed them.Originally posted by Salman:Aren't the auditors the ones who exposed them?
Get your facts right before you spit. -
Can dont keep bumping this thread up by editing your post for countless times? Thanks
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I didnt know it bumps up, it doesnt happens at otherplace. I will try to edit first before posting the next time
You must be sitting infont of this screen all day to notice the bumping. -
Need whole day meh?
One hr alone can feel all the bumps liao -
It is not just the audit firms being used as false fronts or appearance to shield public scrutiny with presumably good reports or compromises.Originally posted by dragg:the recent scandals of the listed companies are good examples.
Quite a number of Public listed companies have been infested with cases of MPs' involvements in companies malpractices. Connections to government are used in the private businesses. Such powers are spreading through political connections in our society from public increasingly to private companies. They call this phenomenon "kuanxi" nowaday although it is easily a tool for corruptions.
As the common saying goes "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" Elite clubs of some kind being promoted on the low-profile may one day lead to more normalizing of kuanxi to help certain private sector to gain powerful opportunities through political connections. -
i noticed too.Originally posted by kilua:I didnt know it bumps up, it doesnt happens at otherplace. I will try to edit first before posting the next time
You must be sitting infont of this screen all day to notice the bumping. -
the ACCS scandal started because nokia withdrew the contract.
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I don't think the auditor exposed the NKF. NKF auditor never reported about the golden taps or the director's having outside company connections in India.Originally posted by dragg:its not the auditors that exposed them. -
Originally posted by Salman:Auidts check on fraud or accounting errors, not on mismanagement. You need to understand that.
well well.. it's the MR. know nothing again..... always asking ppl to prove and explain but say nothing himself.... hmmmm...but from your crapping above .. once again we know that u know nothing at all...
i bet u never heard this term "true and fair" b4 hor
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yandao, dont feed the trollsOriginally posted by I-like-flings(m):
well well.. it's the MR. know nothing again..... always asking ppl to prove and explain but say nothing himself.... hmmmm...but from your crapping above .. once again we know that u know nothing at all...
i bet u never heard this term "true and fair" b4 hor -
no choice lah..i am onto him already.. him and that finance_geek guy.. i see once shoot once... knn.. think he big Fuck... ppl come here to chat and discuss and share.. he come here to DEMAND for answer.. knn...Originally posted by laurence82:yandao, dont feed the trolls
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i agree. he takes every post like it is a challenge.Originally posted by I-like-flings(m):no choice lah..i am onto him already.. him and that finance_geek guy.. i see once shoot once... knn.. think he big Fuck... ppl come here to chat and discuss and share.. he come here to DEMAND for answer.. knn... -
no lah.. if he take it as a challenge he will discuss and stated his view... but he always just reply b/s and ask ppl to prove why they think they are right.... fine lor.. like that i also canOriginally posted by dragg:i agree. he takes every post like it is a challenge.
come come i say that salman is a coward who know nothing, so salman why not u prove to us that u are not....
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if he replies make sure he PM you.
i am not interested in knowing. -
dun pollute my PM lah.. wan to pollute also here lahOriginally posted by dragg:if he replies make sure he PM you.
i am not interested in knowing.