CPF not delivering on our retirement savings
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2.5% is not enough compare to inflation rate. I'm not debating that CPF is no good. It has its merits as a force savings for retirement but do you understand why in the first place? That is because the government don't give a damn about you when you're old. It expects you to fend for yourself. That's why they force you to save. But in doing so, they deplete the funds that you could have otherwise use to make more money for retirements.Originally posted by euphratis:So how much is enough? 2.5% returns not enough in comparison to what? Blue chips or Bank's rates. I think we have to compare apple to apple to be logical ppl. I am not promoting for CPF but I too am a worrying sporean. No body saves anymore & that is why everyone expect someone to take care of them when the well dried up.
Migrating is not only solution. Grass wil alway seems greener on other side, you will still find some things to complain about. This is human. I had a French friend who is cursing on their " Prefect" welfare system. French has the best welfare system in the entire Europe (World). In the end, no one in the country wants to work hard. The harder you work, the pay gets higher, the tax gets more in terms of percentage. In the end the pay you will get after tax deduction will be almost the same pay as the next person who worked less. So what the "F%&#" work. Then you will be "F%&#ing" mad with those free-loaders who refuse to get a job & garment had to spend billions of dollars of tax pay's money to feed these useless.
So imagine this to be happening in Singapore, all we need is to have 1% of these kind of retirees each year who finish their money within a day. Imagine what will happen? Some idiot will complain no garment no welfare. Then some idiot will be the first to complain to garment why they are spending your tax to feed these ppl. The same idiot will complain ppl begging on the streets... same idiot will complain too little money....it will never end.
So nothing is prefect in this world. Maybe the next world after death...
I rest my case.
No everyone knows how to invest wisely and most are fools who loose their money. However, the government should take into consideration giving the people an option of how they should spend their money since in the end, they don't care whether you have enough money or not - you're on your own. Haven't you heard of Singaporeans who had to declare bankrupt even though they have hundreds of thousands of dollars in CPF? This is ridiculous. They person is dying and we are insisting that they save for retirement??
And on France, you're friend is complaining because he/she pays a heavy tax. I pay a heavy tax too but compared to the French (although I had snobs), I must say they have a very good system for the aged. Do you know that they only have to pay tax for the first 14 years of their working life? After that, their welfare is fully taken care by the government and I mean FULLY (not Subsidize). Let our government top this if they can.
Now take a moment to imagine this. You retire and gives up your citizenship, you get maybe half a million SG dollars and you go to Thailand and retire in a beach side house. You're half a million is multiplied 23 times and you're house is now a 15000 sqft landed that cost about $150k SG. That leaves you with about 8 million thailand bhat. Another choose to remain in Singapore, he gets $450 a month until he dies, lives in a 3 room HDB and struggles to make ends meet.
Do you still rest your case?? -
i agree. maybe it is a better idea to emigrate upon retirement.Originally posted by anonymouscoward:2.5% is not enough compare to inflation rate. I'm not debating that CPF is no good. It has its merits as a force savings for retirement but do you understand why in the first place? That is because the government don't give a damn about you when you're old. It expects you to fend for yourself. That's why they force you to save. But in doing so, they deplete the funds that you could have otherwise use to make more money for retirements.
No everyone knows how to invest wisely and most are fools who loose their money. However, the government should take into consideration giving the people an option of how they should spend their money since in the end, they don't care whether you have enough money or not - you're on your own. Haven't you heard of Singaporeans who had to declare bankrupt even though they have hundreds of thousands of dollars in CPF? This is ridiculous. They person is dying and we are insisting that they save for retirement??
And on France, you're friend is complaining because he/she pays a heavy tax. I pay a heavy tax too but compared to the French (although I had snobs), I must say they have a very good system for the aged. Do you know that they only have to pay tax for the first 14 years of their working life? After that, their welfare is fully taken care by the government and I mean FULLY (not Subsidize). Let our government top this if they can.
Now take a moment to imagine this. You retire and gives up your citizenship, you get maybe half a million SG dollars and you go to Thailand and retire in a beach side house. You're half a million is multiplied 23 times and you're house is now a 15000 sqft landed that cost about $150k SG. That leaves you with about 8 million thailand bhat. Another choose to remain in Singapore, he gets $450 a month until he dies, lives in a 3 room HDB and struggles to make ends meet.
Do you still rest your case?? -
All the welfare systems are going bankrupt. Those French and Americans who think they can have it all under the present system will be very disapointed.
You and I could well be better off compared to our peers in France. -
There were some previous news about UK announcing shortage for walfare funds will not be sufficient to support future retirees. Meaning those retired earlier had enjoy too much or live longer so that the funds are running out....Originally posted by Salman:All the welfare systems are going bankrupt. Those French and Americans who think they can have it all under the present system will be very disapointed.
You and I could well be better off compared to our peers in France.
So what..increase tax?
this is oso not the way to go man...I dont want to be taxed & in the end garment say sorry not enough walfare budget.. -
You and I are not living in the lower portion of Singapore's income range.Originally posted by Salman:All the welfare systems are going bankrupt. Those French and Americans who think they can have it all under the present system will be very disapointed.
You and I could well be better off compared to our peers in France.
The welfare systems are failing because they put the government in the red. These governments do not have proper checks in place for their welfare system. However, do you seriously think that our poor is better off than theirs? Our low income family lives on maybe 600 a month and they have to work for it. But our government have tons of money to splurge billions into ECP. Yet, they constantly beg the public to donate to welfare society??? -
It depends on educational status of the retiree and in the end, who's to decide how they are going to use it for?Isn't this a form of subtle emasculation of the male psyche?To be still held to the apron strings and beholden to a unwanted oedipal complex at the age of 70?Originally posted by Salman:Many retirees lost their retirement money once they receive it by gambling it away.
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You know, given how Singapore has prosper since many years back, I wouldn't complain about the standards of living anymore. The government has at the very least, earn my personal trust and respect for building up the nation till this very day. Singapore could have been like Vietnam, or Indonesia, or Phil, but we've progressed so much more than them within these couple of decades. As much as I prefer to live in a perfect country with a perfect system and everything, I wouldn't expect that because personally, I make mistakes all the time, so who am I to judge the Singapore government that has a proven record for these couple of decades?
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they pay themselves a million a year. that gives us the right to judge them.Originally posted by DailyFreeGames.com:You know, given how Singapore has prosper since many years back, I wouldn't complain about the standards of living anymore. The government has at the very least, earn my personal trust and respect for building up the nation till this very day. Singapore could have been like Vietnam, or Indonesia, or Phil, but we've progressed so much more than them within these couple of decades. As much as I prefer to live in a perfect country with a perfect system and everything, I wouldn't expect that because personally, I make mistakes all the time, so who am I to judge the Singapore government that has a proven record for these couple of decades? -
Singapore did progress exponentially during the first 20 years of our history. I attribute this to the quality of ministers we had in the old guards and MM Lee taking the helm. But for the last decade or so, we haven't progress much. Instead, I believe we have regress. Our quality of our ministers are shitty, our policy are no longer proactive but reactive. PM Lee is doing a good job changing things but as it is now, I see that the people has progress much more further that our government.Originally posted by DailyFreeGames.com:You know, given how Singapore has prosper since many years back, I wouldn't complain about the standards of living anymore. The government has at the very least, earn my personal trust and respect for building up the nation till this very day. Singapore could have been like Vietnam, or Indonesia, or Phil, but we've progressed so much more than them within these couple of decades. As much as I prefer to live in a perfect country with a perfect system and everything, I wouldn't expect that because personally, I make mistakes all the time, so who am I to judge the Singapore government that has a proven record for these couple of decades? -
How many of these $600/mth ppl can garment help? Yes tonnage of $$$ goes to projects, unecessary upgrade that are not even useful which I too do not agree too.Originally posted by anonymouscoward:You and I are not living in the lower portion of Singapore's income range.
The welfare systems are failing because they put the government in the red. These governments do not have proper checks in place for their welfare system. However, do you seriously think that our poor is better off than theirs? Our low income family lives on maybe 600 a month and they have to work for it. But our government have tons of money to splurge billions into ECP. Yet, they constantly beg the public to donate to welfare society???
So if u have a policy make up there, who doesnt even know the value of money just becoz he was born w/o worries from well to do family, studies oversea & bag a job on scholarship.
Give a blank cheque to a rich boy & see if he would buy a Merc350 or Toyota. Both serves the same purpose to a $600/mth family. Travelling from A to B. -
Wah, becareful of critising the government openly, they have been known to sue people anyhow whenever they happy... lol
I support Jaya but too bad sometimes nice people don't always win...
Hope next time I can go into Politics to help Singapore prosper... -
i dont think the govt will sue anyone. only individuals in the govt sues someone.Originally posted by DailyFreeGames.com:Wah, becareful of critising the government openly, they have been known to sue people anyhow whenever they happy... lol
I support Jaya but too bad sometimes nice people don't always win...
Hope next time I can go into Politics to help Singapore prosper... -
What proportion of singapore live in that category?Originally posted by anonymouscoward:You and I are not living in the lower portion of Singapore's income range.
The welfare systems are failing because they put the government in the red. These governments do not have proper checks in place for their welfare system. However, do you seriously think that our poor is better off than theirs? Our low income family lives on maybe 600 a month and they have to work for it. But our government have tons of money to splurge billions into ECP. Yet, they constantly beg the public to donate to welfare society???
Are we going the make policy based on that category alone? Would that be fair to the rest?
I'm sure the govt would gladly provide a welfare state if we can afford it. What holding them back? Would that be a responsible govt? -
You extra one leh...Originally posted by dragg:i dont think the govt will sue anyone. only individuals in the govt sues someone. -
the govt can invoke the ISA, why sue you?Originally posted by DailyFreeGames.com:You extra one leh...
only individuals sue for libel or slander. -
I think people have missed the issue. Prof Asher is not saying for a moment that we should opt for state welfare instead of the CPF system. The issue is how the CPF system is run.
By allowing and in fact encouraging Singaporeans to use their CPF for housing, we have seen the dramatic rise in property prices over the years, so much so that Singapore becomes non-competitive. Residential property prices do have a bearing on commercial property prices as well in land-scarce Singapore. Whether it is the doctor's fees or the cost of ice cream, a significant part of it goes to pay for the rental of the clinic or factory.
To reverse that trend, the government is trying to bring down infrastructure costs but that will have a detrimental effect on our retirement savings, since much of it is tied up in that HDB flat. In the past, conventional wisdom is that when you retire, you downgrade from that executive flat to a 4-room flat and live off the profits. Looking at the prices today, how much profit do you get? But many do not have anything else in their CPF savings apart from that HDB flat. If you don't get a windfall from the sale of your flat, or worse, if you suffer a loss, then what are you going to live on in your retirement?
The other very valid point by Prof Asher is that there is no transparency in the way Temasek Holdings invests our CPF funds. Going by international industry standards, the returns we get for our CPF savings is below par. Why is that so? Apart from the few leaks such as that disastrous investment Ho Ching made in the US, we will never know...