Do You Think Democracy Brings 'Noise' ?

• Li Ka Shing

  30 Nov 05, 00:42

  Do You Think Democracy Brings 'Noise' ?
  
  Sometimes I think democracy has its negative effects, and it is causing too much noise. It is creating divisions among the people, and making groupings. And it makes decision making more difficult and slower. It doesn't seem to me that democracy is all that good.
  
  I think I like the Singapore model. Power is concentrated. Decision making is fast and swift. Ideology and information is controlled. Everything can move effectively and efficiently. Society is more cohesive and compact.
  
  So.......probably this is something to think about. I don't think Singapore is running a bad system at all.
  
  Don't u think?
  
  
• Salman

  30 Nov 05, 01:05

  I fully agree with you.
  
  Democracies are not perfect.
  You look at democracies of Thailand, India, Japan and USA. Decisions were made with political rather than practical reasons and ended up with wastage and even endangering the country.
  
  The economies of Taiwan, Korea, Singapore, China grew rapidly under centralised direction. Even Isia was more stable under Suharto.
  
  There is no ultimate political system, it all depoends of the people and situation.
  
  
• ShutterBug

  30 Nov 05, 12:38

  Democracy is only a word.
  
  
• BillyBong

  30 Nov 05, 14:24

  Originally posted by Li Ka Shing:

  Do You Think Democracy Brings 'Noise' ?
  
  Sometimes I think democracy has its negative effects, and it is causing too much noise. It is creating divisions among the people, and making groupings. And it makes decision making more difficult and slower. It doesn't seem to me that democracy is all that good.
  
  I think I like the Singapore model. Power is concentrated. Decision making is fast and swift. Ideology and information is controlled. Everything can move effectively and efficiently. Society is more cohesive and compact.
  
  So.......probably this is something to think about. I don't think Singapore is running a bad system at all.
  
  Don't u think?
  
  

  Which is why SG is a Pseudo-Democratic model, and not true democracy.
  
  Your statement has itself raised many interesting points: Why should power be concentrated? Why should one man or one party be given this authority?
  
  Power corrupts and the longer you hold on, the more stubborn and twisted you become.
  
  Such a society becomes a society of lemmings, where the leader points and the sheep follow. Is that what you truly desire?
  
  Singapore system indeed has many values that other nations envy. But if we continue to sweep our dirty linen under the gold carpet, rest assured our society will achieve only decadence.
• kilua

  1 Dec 05, 02:22

  I agree totally about the part on concentrating power. I suggest Singapore should follow the ancient greeks, scrape elections and have a post called dictator for life. Thinking about double standards and gold taps is too hazardous for the health. Having controlled information makes people happy. We should have a small elite that thinks for us and teach us how to live, our education curiculumn should also be controlled by the new dictator for life and our society will be more compact and there will be less unhappy people. Too much noise about unfairness will divide people and the country will eventually collapse in the long run.
• meleagent

  1 Dec 05, 02:45

  Then why have a democracy in the first place?
  
  We should all get it over and done with and appoint LHL as dictator for life. Let it be mandated that only males from the exceptional famiLee can take over the country. Let him and his cronies decide on whats best for us.
• kilua

  1 Dec 05, 04:27

  New Pledge for the Dictatorship
  
  We the people of the Dictatorship
  Pledge ourselves not to make too much noise,
  Regardless of Foreign Talent local talent or peasant,
  So as to achieve efficiency,effectiveness,
  and progress for our dictatorship.
  
  Hail Great O Dictator! (raise arms at 45 degrees)
  
  
• oxford mushroom

  1 Dec 05, 05:02

  Originally posted by Li Ka Shing:

  Sometimes I think democracy has its negative effects, and it is causing too much noise. It is creating divisions among the people, and making groupings. And it makes decision making more difficult and slower. It doesn't seem to me that democracy is all that good.

  That's true. Singapore is an efficient, benign dictatorship. Overall, most of the decisions our leaders make are good and although they made many mistakes too, most were not made with malevolent intent.
  
  However, the world has moved on and with a more educated and vocal population, it will be difficult to continue the present course. The non-elite heartlanders want to have a say in the running of the country as well and the government has to accommodate their aspirations. Trying to contain them by various tricks like re-drawing electoral boundaries will not work in the long run and risks a nasty backlash. Another niggling fear I have: What if our benign dictatorship turns malignant? At the moment we have no way of getting rid of a malevolent dictator through democratic means with 60% of seats uncontested at elections.
• Salman

  1 Dec 05, 10:37

  Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
  
  However, the world has moved on and with a more educated and vocal population, it will be difficult to continue the present course. The non-elite heartlanders want to have a say in the running of the country as well and the government has to accommodate their aspirations.

  The govt actually do want to help the aspirations of the heartlanders which makes up 80% of the population.
  
  

  
  Trying to contain them by various tricks like re-drawing electoral boundaries will not work in the long run and risks a nasty backlash.

  Thsi is done all over teh world, even in the USA, there is no backlash. Please don't exagerate.
  The only way there will be a bcaklash is if the govt really screws up big time which they haven't.
  
  

  
  Another niggling fear I have: What if our benign dictatorship turns malignant? At the moment we have no way of getting rid of a malevolent dictator through democratic means with 60% of seats uncontested at elections.

  Don't worry, we will vote oppostion then.
  If they really piss the people, no amt of HDB upgrading or rebate will appease anyone.
  
  
• kilua

  1 Dec 05, 14:00

  Originally posted by oxford mushroom:

  That's true. Singapore is an efficient, benign dictatorship. Overall, most of the decisions our leaders make are good and although they made many mistakes too, most were not made with malevolent intent. .

  I agree that there are good people in the goverment, especially the selfless first generation Old Guard leaders of PAP. Politics is a dirty game, the old guard were "renewed" completely in 1984 leaving only one leader.The selfless contribution of the Old guard are no longer recognized in Singapore history - we are left with a Dear Leader. Reading comments of these Ex- old guard leaders of Singapore who have lost power gives me creeps.....
  
  If a company and removes all the old experienced people leaving only one experienced leader,the power becomes too concentrated in one person. No doubt there are good people in the goverment, but how many? Under the current election system, leaders who has never been voted can continue for a long time in the goverment.
  
  If our Dear leader did not put so many relatives in top position, i might have probably still have supported them. The current system leaves too many questions to be asked
  
  In the current goverment , there are no check and balances. What happens if a power struggle take place? Will Singapore become a fascist country?
  
  
• dragg

  1 Dec 05, 14:05

  if only they give the people a chance to really vote.
  
  
• Salman

  1 Dec 05, 14:21

  Its not PAP's fault. The opposition don't want to give us a chance to vote, what to do?
• mett

  2 Dec 05, 03:18

  damn it i hate to refer to them as "leaders"... they're supposed to be our "representatives" ... they should representing what WE need and desire... not directing and "leading" us the way THEY feel we should be living our lives...
• LazerLordz

  2 Dec 05, 14:20

  Originally posted by oxford mushroom:

  That's true. Singapore is an efficient, benign dictatorship. Overall, most of the decisions our leaders make are good and although they made many mistakes too, most were not made with malevolent intent.
  
  However, the world has moved on and with a more educated and vocal population, it will be difficult to continue the present course. The non-elite heartlanders want to have a say in the running of the country as well and the government has to accommodate their aspirations. Trying to contain them by various tricks like re-drawing electoral boundaries will not work in the long run and risks a nasty backlash. Another niggling fear I have: What if our benign dictatorship turns malignant? At the moment we have no way of getting rid of a malevolent dictator through democratic means with 60% of seats uncontested at elections.

  That's why checks and balances are the only things that save a nation if the incumbent government decides one day to turn rogue.Weakening our democratic institutions in the guise of efficiency is not the way.
• LazerLordz

  2 Dec 05, 14:21

  Do we want to be a slower runner that runs a longer race or a sprinter that is brilliant for all 10 seconds before he collapses at the finish line?
• oxford mushroom

  3 Dec 05, 19:42

  Originally posted by Salman:

  Don't worry, we will vote oppostion then.
  If they really piss the people, no amt of HDB upgrading or rebate will appease anyone.
  

  How do you vote the Opposition then if the electoral laws are changed. I can think of a few ways to increase the voting power of groups who are more likely to support the government:
  
  1. Those who are contributing more to the nation deserve a greater say. So we will give additional votes to those who pay more than $10k in income tax each year, those who are in senior government service, those who have graduate qualifications, those who hold senior positions in government linked companies, those who hold senior positions in the uniformed services etc..
  
  2. Permanent residents contribute to the nation's economy. So we give a vote to all permanent residents who are employed and have at least secondary education
  
  3. To encourage scholars to return and keep our talent pool. We give additional votes to scholars and members of the elite
  
  4. It is ridiculous that criminals who have evil intentions towards the nation should have the right to vote. So we strip voting rights from convicted criminals guilty of more serious offences..
  
  I am not an elite. Doubtless the elite class can think of more innovative measures...