Melvyn Tan is leaving Singapore
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I pity the fool(MT) really. He is just a pawn in the grand scheme of thingsOriginally posted by Xprobe:Agree, it is not Tan who is wrong. I really dont give a rats ass about him. It is the quality of judgment of the people we entrust to run our country which is at question. These guys are not using their logic at all. -
Agreed. Let's not be naive. No one would blindly walk back into a jail sentence, especially not someone as established and successful as him.Originally posted by meleagent:Come on people , he wouldn't have come back to risk a jail term. I am not privy to the going ons behind the scene, but i can hazard a guess that the conditons for his return and subsequent punishment would have already been discussed. Given the nature of our kangaroo courts, i would think that he would have already known about his punishment even before setting foot in Singapore
So stop potraying him as the prodigal son returning to bring us salvation. -
no they aren't. Its scary. how did we end up with people who know more about trying to look good than doing a good job in charge of us?Originally posted by Xprobe:Agree, it is not Tan who is wrong. I really dont give a rats ass about him. It is the quality of judgment of the people we entrust to run our country which is at question. These guys are not using their logic at all. -
really? u hazard a guess thats what happened?Originally posted by meleagent:Come on people , he wouldn't have come back to risk a jail term. I am not privy to the going ons behind the scene, but i can hazard a guess that the conditons for his return and subsequent punishment would have already been discussed. Given the nature of our kangaroo courts, i would think that he would have already known about his punishment even before setting foot in Singapore
So stop potraying him as the prodigal son returning to bring us salvation.
Hes no white horse. That sort of courtesy... I doubt it extends to him. They can just let him back in without even giving him a fine, and the media didn't have to know did they? Why risk that sort of publicity at all if there were discussions beforehand? It DOESN'T make SENSE.
like i said, u want to complain, why not go complain about some whitehorses who have gotten away with manslaughter in the military recently? Now THATS something worth making noise over. -
no answer, u know X-Files gave rise to a famous quote "The truth is out there"Originally posted by dragg:i dont have an answer to it. but i am still cynical. he neednt come back, then why did he after all these years?
and do you really believed he walk right into singapore risking a jail term without checking with the relevant authorities beforehand? is he that stupid?
U believe what u want.
but honestly, about entering singapore with the punishment discussed? I don't believe so. He is not some white horse, i doubt if that sort of courtesy extends to him. -
I still beg to differ. Outside of the classical music world, he is quite unknown. Till his story went into the media, most singaporeans don't even know who he was. So I don't think the govt needed to have under the table dealings with him. Why should they even allow it to be reported in the media if they did? It would make more sense to just keep it quiet right? By allowing it to even be reported, they've shown that in this case, there was more likely than not, no discussions beforehand.Originally posted by Rexdriver:Agreed. Let's not be naive. No one would blindly walk back into a jail sentence, especially not someone as established and successful as him. -
Do u want to bet there are whitehorses we don't know about, who have escaped NS?Originally posted by Xprobe:true, a lot of white horses and wayang ppl during NS. But at least they are IN NS. Dont think I will protest too much if Tan is made to served the 2 year stint and can book out half day everyday.
I wouldn't bet on it.
In any case, just because whitehorses serve NS is no reason for them to get away with manslaughter during their NS. -
what was that about ? ...Originally posted by HENG@:Do u want to bet there are whitehorses we don't know about, who have escaped NS?
I wouldn't bet on it.
In any case, just because whitehorses serve NS is no reason for them to get away with manslaughter during their NS.
care to be more specific ? ... -
[quote]Originally posted by HENG@:
[b]
really? u hazard a guess thats what happened?
Hes no white horse. That sort of courtesy... I doubt it extends to him. They can just let him back in without even giving him a fine, and the media didn't have to know did they? Why risk that sort of publicity at all if there were discussions beforehand? It DOESN'T make SENSE.
why not? our govt is after talents too. as a musician i am sure he has friends and contacts in the higher circles. a few phone calls wouldnt hurt.
the only problem was they did not expect such a reaction from the public.
it is not possible to just let him in and risk a scandal. what if someone blows the whistle? -
my read on the media exposure of NKF and this affair is that there is faction fighting within the system, that is why we got to know about this in the first place
because the thought of ST suddently becoming "progressive" is unlikely -
it still doesn't make sense does it? they can just leave the part about him skipping NS out, and just say hes an established musician who trained overseas in London. Which singaporean is really going to go check his entire personal history out? they can let him in, let people know about him and not risk a scandal. The reason that they never expected such a reaction is because they never had any under the table dealings with him. Like i said most singaporeans dunno who melvyn tan is anyway, they aren't going to be bothered with his personal history, unless they are told there is something unusual about it. Leave out the "he skipped NS" bit and everyone would be none the wiser. No. I see no reasons for the govt to risk having it blow up in their faces if they had done under the table dealings with him.Originally posted by dragg:[quote]Originally posted by HENG@:
[b]
really? u hazard a guess thats what happened?
Hes no white horse. That sort of courtesy... I doubt it extends to him. They can just let him back in without even giving him a fine, and the media didn't have to know did they? Why risk that sort of publicity at all if there were discussions beforehand? It DOESN'T make SENSE.
why not? our govt is after talents too. as a musician i am sure he has friends and contacts in the higher circles. a few phone calls wouldnt hurt.
the only problem was they did not expect such a reaction from the public.
it is not possible to just let him in and risk a scandal. what if someone blows the whistle? -
this faction goes even earlier than that. remember the CST drowning case? The people who exposed it were likely from this faction as well.Originally posted by Xprobe:my read on the media exposure of NKF and this affair is that there is faction fighting within the system, that is why we got to know about this in the first place
because the thought of ST suddently becoming "progressive" is unlikely -
see, thats my point...the leadership is not really 100% "on-top" of things
perhaps the new guards propose a more progressive program which cannot be stomached by the old ones -
there is no way that anyone can proved that the govt had done an 'under-the-table-dealing' with him. and frankly 'under-the-table-dealing' is also too strong a word to use.Originally posted by HENG@:it still doesn't make sense does it? they can just leave the part about him skipping NS out, and just say hes an established musician who trained overseas in London. Which singaporean is really going to go check his entire personal history out? they can let him in, let people know about him and not risk a scandal. The reason that they never expected such a reaction is because they never had any under the table dealings with him. Like i said most singaporeans dunno who melvyn tan is anyway, they aren't going to be bothered with his personal history, unless they are told there is something unusual about it. Leave out the "he skipped NS" bit and everyone would be none the wiser. No. I see no reasons for the govt to risk having it blow up in their faces if they had done under the table dealings with him.
generally based on past records most defaulters werent jailed. all he did was to make a few calls to ensure he wont be jailed.
people who know him personally might blow the whistle. even someone he knows in UK. there is always a risk. -
I'll PM u.Originally posted by Fatum:what was that about ? ...
care to be more specific ? ... -
ah but if most past defaulters weren't jailed, why aren't u people making noise about them? because they weren't publicised? or because they aren't special talents?Originally posted by dragg:there is no way that anyone can proved that the govt had done an 'under-the-table-dealing' with him. and frankly 'under-the-table-dealing' is also too strong a word to use.
generally based on past records most defaulters werent jailed. all he did was to make a few calls to ensure he wont be jailed.
people who know him personally might blow the whistle. even someone he knows in UK. there is always a risk. -
the issue was about the talent thing.Originally posted by HENG@:ah but if most past defaulters weren't jailed, why aren't u people making noise about them? because they weren't publicised? or because they aren't special talents?
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Or maybe there was an oversight (in controlling the press) in this instance?Originally posted by HENG@:I still beg to differ. Outside of the classical music world, he is quite unknown. Till his story went into the media, most singaporeans don't even know who he was. So I don't think the govt needed to have under the table dealings with him. Why should they even allow it to be reported in the media if they did? It would make more sense to just keep it quiet right? By allowing it to even be reported, they've shown that in this case, there was more likely than not, no discussions beforehand.
I have no issues with Mr Tan - good for him that he made good. I just don't think its so simple. String-pulling is not exclusive to white horses. I think Mr. Tan would have had his feelers out before he took the step of returning home. I would if I were him.
But honestly, I don't give dam. -
oh? not because most of u are feeling cheesed off he din get jailed?Originally posted by dragg:the issue was about the talent thing. -
i cant speak for the rest.Originally posted by HENG@:oh? not because most of u are feeling cheesed off he din get jailed?
personally i just feel that he shouldnt come back. -
putting a feeler out is no gurantee that u won't get jailed.Originally posted by Rexdriver:Or maybe there was an oversight (in controlling the press) in this instance?
I have no issues with Mr Tan - good for him that he made good. I just don't think its so simple. String-pulling is not exclusive to white horses. I think Mr. Tan would have had his feelers out before he took the step of returning home. I would if I were him.
But honestly, I don't give dam.
the only way anyone can be sure they won't get jailed is IF they actually did a behind the scenes deal with the govt. and if thats the case, hello, the govt wouldn't have had that "oversight" would they? i mean, sg's govt is not the most open or honest, but that dun mean they're stupid are they? u dun get to where they are by being complete morons. no u get there by being smart at certain things... -
because it would be a bad thing for singapore or because u will feel cheated?Originally posted by dragg:i cant speak for the rest.
personally i just feel that he shouldnt come back. -
They're not complete morons but they're not infallible either. Reality check tells me that he would have received a fair amount of reassurance that he will not be jailed before he decided to come back. What extent of reassurance is anybody's guess.Originally posted by HENG@:putting a feeler out is no gurantee that u won't get jailed.
the only way anyone can be sure they won't get jailed is IF they actually did a behind the scenes deal with the govt. and if thats the case, hello, the govt wouldn't have had that "oversight" would they? i mean, sg's govt is not the most open or honest, but that dun mean they're stupid are they? u dun get to where they are by being complete morons. no u get there by being smart at certain things...
So why are you so defensive about this guy anyway? I think it is perfectly reasonable that many Singaporeans' sentiments have been roused up over this issue. -
Nobody's idolising no one. But since you're so full of conspiracy theories, can you explain how Melvyn Tan would have even the slightest indication whether or not he would be thrown in a cell for defaulting? Given that our CJ periodically ups fines into jail sentences and randomly doubles the sentences of appeals, can you explain how he could have 'predicted' the outcome of his hearing?Originally posted by meleagent:Come on people , he wouldn't have come back to risk a jail term. I am not privy to the going ons behind the scene, but i can hazard a guess that the conditons for his return and subsequent punishment would have already been discussed. Given the nature of our kangaroo courts, i would think that he would have already known about his punishment even before setting foot in Singapore
So stop potraying him as the prodigal son returning to bring us salvation. -
because these are misplaced sentiments. because, like what i said in the other thread:Originally posted by Rexdriver:They're not complete morons but they're not infallible either. Reality check tells me that he would have received a fair amount of reassurance that he will not be jailed before he decided to come back. What extent of reassurance is anybody's guess.
So why are you so defensive about this guy anyway? I think it is perfectly reasonable that many Singaporeans' sentiments have been roused up over this issue.
Melvyn Tan did something I respect immensely. He broke out of the traditional Singapore mould of "don't be stupid, u can't make a living out of/become world famous in sports/music/culture/arts" He is my hero, not because he is a musician, but because he did what I only wish more people have the guts to do. He showed those of us who wish to pursue our dreams that there IS hope that just because u have the ill fortune of being born in singapore, it doesn't mean you have to kill your dreams, that u're doomed to a life of nothingness, of unfulfillment. He showed us that it is still possible to dream, to pursue your dream, and to make it ultimately, even tho being born a singaporean is a handicap like having both your hands tied behind your back in a prizefight.
because i've been in his shoes about pursueing a dream, i know whats it like chasing a dream, and im sick of singaporeans who can only feel indignant that he wasn't punished heavily enuf simply because they served, and have a warped sense of justice. They don't complain about the injustices they don't know or don't care about, they only complain about their perceived injustices, that exists only in their heads because they've been fed so full of bullsh|t by the govt.
I have even more reasons but I won't list them here. If u want I can PM u those reasons.