Melvyn Tan is leaving Singapore
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Actually I don't think thats true. People outside singapore are not likely to care if he dodged national service, so his reputation is likely to remain intact. There are also groups out there that are anti-conscription, so they might have a new poster boy. Ironically, his adopted country also abolished national service during the 60s. So I think his reputation is safe.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:his name is mud wherever he goes. He can never perform in a concert without worrying that protests will greet him everywhere he goes..
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Re the assertions you make about Melvyn - I'm wondering - How would you know?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:[some text deleted]
It appears the sole reason for his homecoming was to see his aged parents who are in their 80s rather than due to any residual fond memories of Singapore or nationalistic fervour to serve the country he was born in. After all, he has renounced his citizenship and is now a British citizen.
[some text deleted]
(Straits Times, Dec 6, 2005)
Contrite? He is too much of a coward to apologize. Arrogant and cowardly, he should pack his bag and get out on the next flight. -
To some people especially HENG, I have some things to say to you.
Firstly, I am NOT kao peh kao bu about the Melvyn Tan issue. This is a serious matter we are talking about here, not some trivial and trifle thing. This is desertion from being drafted and evading serving the country and defending it. I dont know about others but I am not kpkb and merely expressing my opinion backed up by facts and logical arguments and views, which is my right as a citizen of this country. Other citizens who have dutifully served their NS also have the right to express their views and opinion, and mind you I do think we have a strong case on this Melvyn Tan issue.
You say there is no equality in this world, while I agree that the government is not perfect and completely fair and this world is not completely perfect and fair, we should fight for a more fair and just world. After all, does it not say in our national pledge that we are building a society based on justice and equality? While everything cannot be perfectly fair, there should be equality of opportunities in Singapore (and indeed the world) and equality before the law, meaning the law should be applied equally. I am not completely certain but I suppose there must be some who have also dodged NS and ended up jailed and imprisoned.
You say if there is equality I would be sitting at the same table as LKY and eating the same food as him. While most including me are not as bright and brilliant as our great MM, the likelihood remains that if I was as brilliant as him or close to his intelligence, I would most likely be in his position or occupy some high ranking big shot post in Singapore cos I use my brain and acumen/intelligence to move into those positions! In that sense there is no fairness because some are born bright or not as bright but there should be equality of opportunities, meaning if I am bright as LKY I have a great chance to be in his position or at least a high ranking position. Similarly if I am good at something else I can also do well and achieve success in other fields and other areas and perhaps move into a position that is more in tune to my abilities and talent.
You say the bottomline is that he also got punished by the law and dont KPKB about it, but the point here is that the penalty is too light! The amount will most probably be peanuts to an established musician like him. Probably others who have also dodged NS have been jailed too and soldiers who AWOL even one day can get sent to the Detention Barracks. And of course one can go DB for other kinds of offences as well like absence from official duty.
Thats where equality before the law comes in, can the government explain satisfactorily why Melvyn Tan was only given a fine for defaulting on NS?
As citizens of this country and some or mostly NS men or present NSFs and future NSFs, it is our right to make our views known, to express our opinion and to lobby the government for more fair and equal treatment. In this way we also promote a just and participatory society. Kudos to those who spoke up on the Melvyn Tan issue!!! -
the very faction that positioned the news in this way?Originally posted by LazerLordz:They knew we would make a hue and cry.
Question is, who's benefiting from it. -
So pray tell, why did they want to do so?Is it intentional blundering to appear soft or something else.The powers that be never give anything away for free.Originally posted by Xprobe:the very faction that positioned the news in this way?
Still, farce and screw-ups are becoming common.. -
i still believe there is faction fighting within, that is why the NKF news brokeOriginally posted by LazerLordz:So pray tell, why did they want to do so?Is it intentional blundering to appear soft or something else.The powers that be never give anything away for free.
Still, farce and screw-ups are becoming common.. -
on a side note, if you are talking abt advocating fairness did you make your voice heard when it comes to the poor guy that got sentenced to 11 yrs by shoplifting, why foreign talents are given benefits here, why our local women do not have to serve e.t.c? i hope you do cos if you don't, it means you are just someone who is a hypocrite/eating sour grapes e.t.c
pls give some examples for us to believe you are not such a person
did you even factor Melvyn's Tan situation into account? would you like to train someone who served NS only to go back to britain and defend the english army? did you consider the age which he was abroad?
did you consider the fact whether he cooperated with the authorities? -
The very nature of diverting attention from the real cause of this furore.Originally posted by Xprobe:the very faction that positioned the news in this way? -
Bold and big words.Originally posted by monoslayer:so u will b proud of ur son if he escape NS to pursue his dreams? think abt tis way, if everyone do tis, who will protect our country? draft in ur wife? NS is a sacred duty of every singapore male. they should put country above self. no country, where got family?? selfish @sshole
Our local propaganda has already converted you into thinking that NS is a sacred duty and not plain conscription for a national cause.
And make no mistake, i did not suggest in my posts that people should emulate MT and dodge the draft. Only misguided flamers like yourself assume such fiction. -
Agreed.Originally posted by THE ANALYST:To some people especially HENG, I have some things to say to you.
Firstly, I am NOT kao peh kao bu about the Melvyn Tan issue. This is a serious matter we are talking about here, not some trivial and trifle thing. This is desertion from being drafted and evading serving the country and defending it. I dont know about others but I am not kpkb and merely expressing my opinion backed up by facts and logical arguments and views, which is my right as a citizen of this country. Other citizens who have dutifully served their NS also have the right to express their views and opinion, and mind you I do think we have a strong case on this Melvyn Tan issue.
You say there is no equality in this world, while I agree that the government is not perfect and completely fair and this world is not completely perfect and fair, we should fight for a more fair and just world. After all, does it not say in our national pledge that we are building a society based on justice and equality? While everything cannot be perfectly fair, there should be equality of opportunities in Singapore (and indeed the world) and equality before the law, meaning the law should be applied equally. I am not completely certain but I suppose there must be some who have also dodged NS and ended up jailed and imprisoned.
You say if there is equality I would be sitting at the same table as LKY and eating the same food as him. While most including me are not as bright and brilliant as our great MM, the likelihood remains that if I was as brilliant as him or close to his intelligence, I would most likely be in his position or occupy some high ranking big shot post in Singapore cos I use my brain and acumen/intelligence to move into those positions! In that sense there is no fairness because some are born bright or not as bright but there should be equality of opportunities, meaning if I am bright as LKY I have a great chance to be in his position or at least a high ranking position. Similarly if I am good at something else I can also do well and achieve success in other fields and other areas and perhaps move into a position that is more in tune to my abilities and talent.
You say the bottomline is that he also got punished by the law and dont KPKB about it, but the point here is that the penalty is too light! The amount will most probably be peanuts to an established musician like him. Probably others who have also dodged NS have been jailed too and soldiers who AWOL even one day can get sent to the Detention Barracks. And of course one can go DB for other kinds of offences as well like absence from official duty.
Thats where equality before the law comes in, can the government explain satisfactorily why Melvyn Tan was only given a fine for defaulting on NS?
People dodge draft by going overseas. This is not new nor is it an isolated incident.
Why are people making such a big fuss now? Clearly, the irk is coming from the paltry FINE.
And since psychologically speaking, you cannot blame big brother (coz he's always incapable of error), you simply take it out on the lesser of two evils. -
Just to respond to one point - on this whole issue about punishments for persons who are enlisted versus punishments for persons who are not enlisted:Originally posted by THE ANALYST:To some people especially HENG, I have some things to say to you.
Firstly, I am NOT kao peh kao bu about the Melvyn Tan issue. This is a serious matter we are talking about here, not some trivial and trifle thing. This is desertion from being drafted and evading serving the country and defending it. I dont know about others but I am not kpkb and merely expressing my opinion backed up by facts and logical arguments and views, which is my right as a citizen of this country. Other citizens who have dutifully served their NS also have the right to express their views and opinion, and mind you I do think we have a strong case on this Melvyn Tan issue.
You say there is no equality in this world, while I agree that the government is not perfect and completely fair and this world is not completely perfect and fair, we should fight for a more fair and just world. After all, does it not say in our national pledge that we are building a society based on justice and equality? While everything cannot be perfectly fair, there should be equality of opportunities in Singapore (and indeed the world) and equality before the law, meaning the law should be applied equally. I am not completely certain but I suppose there must be some who have also dodged NS and ended up jailed and imprisoned.
You say if there is equality I would be sitting at the same table as LKY and eating the same food as him. While most including me are not as bright and brilliant as our great MM, the likelihood remains that if I was as brilliant as him or close to his intelligence, I would most likely be in his position or occupy some high ranking big shot post in Singapore cos I use my brain and acumen/intelligence to move into those positions! In that sense there is no fairness because some are born bright or not as bright but there should be equality of opportunities, meaning if I am bright as LKY I have a great chance to be in his position or at least a high ranking position. Similarly if I am good at something else I can also do well and achieve success in other fields and other areas and perhaps move into a position that is more in tune to my abilities and talent.
You say the bottomline is that he also got punished by the law and dont KPKB about it, but the point here is that the penalty is too light! The amount will most probably be peanuts to an established musician like him. Probably others who have also dodged NS have been jailed too and soldiers who AWOL even one day can get sent to the Detention Barracks. And of course one can go DB for other kinds of offences as well like absence from official duty.
Thats where equality before the law comes in, can the government explain satisfactorily why Melvyn Tan was only given a fine for defaulting on NS?
As citizens of this country and some or mostly NS men or present NSFs and future NSFs, it is our right to make our views known, to express our opinion and to lobby the government for more fair and equal treatment. In this way we also promote a just and participatory society. Kudos to those who spoke up on the Melvyn Tan issue!!!
Persons who are enlisted are subject to the SAF Act. military law basically. tougher regime of rules and regulations. hence the main difference. -
Um that doesn't sound like a justification for the disparity in punishment. We're still all in the same jurisdiction and there should be parity and consistency in all the laws.Originally posted by jeevna:Just to respond to one point - on this whole issue about punishments for persons who are enlisted versus punishments for persons who are not enlisted:
Persons who are enlisted are subject to the SAF Act. military law basically. tougher regime of rules and regulations. hence the main difference. -
not really no. Singaporeans are a handful anywhere else. I doubt if they'll be much trouble. Spite doesn't change facts.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:He will never earn a cent from me and until he shows some contrition, his name is mud wherever he goes. He can never perform in a concert without worrying that protests will greet him everywhere he goes..
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Geez we don't need that sort of publicity as a nation. Its not nice when we're compared to barbaric cave dwellers.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Get a bunch of chaps and protest at the London Philharmonic and rest assured we will appear in the weird pages of national and state dailies again. -
u want something to be irked over? come i PM u something. I give u a really good case of injustice to be irked over. This kind of small thing blow up until so big. U say fine light, then go and yell at the state la. Melvyn's fault that he got a fine ah? EVEN say he specially call back n make arrangements with the govt to get of lightly, if our government is not corruptable, how would that be possible then? Everything, starts with the govt, end with the govt. Go rant at them then. Meanwhile, read my PM.Originally posted by THE ANALYST:To some people especially HENG, I have some things to say to you.
Firstly, I am NOT kao peh kao bu about the Melvyn Tan issue. This is a serious matter we are talking about here, not some trivial and trifle thing. This is desertion from being drafted and evading serving the country and defending it. I dont know about others but I am not kpkb and merely expressing my opinion backed up by facts and logical arguments and views, which is my right as a citizen of this country. Other citizens who have dutifully served their NS also have the right to express their views and opinion, and mind you I do think we have a strong case on this Melvyn Tan issue.
You say there is no equality in this world, while I agree that the government is not perfect and completely fair and this world is not completely perfect and fair, we should fight for a more fair and just world. After all, does it not say in our national pledge that we are building a society based on justice and equality? While everything cannot be perfectly fair, there should be equality of opportunities in Singapore (and indeed the world) and equality before the law, meaning the law should be applied equally. I am not completely certain but I suppose there must be some who have also dodged NS and ended up jailed and imprisoned.
You say if there is equality I would be sitting at the same table as LKY and eating the same food as him. While most including me are not as bright and brilliant as our great MM, the likelihood remains that if I was as brilliant as him or close to his intelligence, I would most likely be in his position or occupy some high ranking big shot post in Singapore cos I use my brain and acumen/intelligence to move into those positions! In that sense there is no fairness because some are born bright or not as bright but there should be equality of opportunities, meaning if I am bright as LKY I have a great chance to be in his position or at least a high ranking position. Similarly if I am good at something else I can also do well and achieve success in other fields and other areas and perhaps move into a position that is more in tune to my abilities and talent.
You say the bottomline is that he also got punished by the law and dont KPKB about it, but the point here is that the penalty is too light! The amount will most probably be peanuts to an established musician like him. Probably others who have also dodged NS have been jailed too and soldiers who AWOL even one day can get sent to the Detention Barracks. And of course one can go DB for other kinds of offences as well like absence from official duty.
Thats where equality before the law comes in, can the government explain satisfactorily why Melvyn Tan was only given a fine for defaulting on NS?
As citizens of this country and some or mostly NS men or present NSFs and future NSFs, it is our right to make our views known, to express our opinion and to lobby the government for more fair and equal treatment. In this way we also promote a just and participatory society. Kudos to those who spoke up on the Melvyn Tan issue!!! -
Is this about the traffic incident? Mind sending me a pm also?. Interested to know more abt this.Originally posted by HENG@:u want something to be irked over? come i PM u something. I give u a really good case of injustice to be irked over. This kind of small thing blow up until so big. U say fine light, then go and yell at the state la. Melvyn's fault that he got a fine ah? EVEN say he specially call back n make arrangements with the govt to get of lightly, if our government is not corruptable, how would that be possible then? Everything, starts with the govt, end with the govt. Go rant at them then. Meanwhile, read my PM. -
really? PM me too...Originally posted by meleagent:Is this about the traffic incident? Mind sending me a pm also?. Interested to know more abt this. -
me too
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no not the traffic incident. something else. Lazer u prob know which incident I mean.
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Yeah, I hear you. Just stating as an observatrion, that is all.Originally posted by Rexdriver:Um that doesn't sound like a justification for the disparity in punishment. We're still all in the same jurisdiction and there should be parity and consistency in all the laws. -
In response to Heng, firstly others might have said so but never did I state or say that Melvyn Tan did any underhand and/or under the table deals with the government.
And about you saying I should yell at the state, I and other people do not do that, because we are not silly, stupid and senseless people (I hope not too many are like that anyway) Like I have already said in my previous post, we give our opinions and views which we have every right to as citizens of this country and (I sure hope) as NS men who have dutifully served our beloved nation. We lobby the government and give our views (albeit sometimes strongly) and hope that our voicing out does have the desired effect on the government, which I gladly say so it seems to have an effect with Teo Chee Hean already saying he is considering more stringent penalties on draft dodgers. In that sense we did voice out to the government but in a matured and sensible way, and not kao peh kao bu and ranting.
And finally you saying that it is a small matter, I think this is a statement that borders on the ridiculous and ludicrous. This is evasion of national service and running away from it and breaking the laws of a country which is punishable by imprisonment. You sayiing this is not a serious matter? If every person can do this kind of thing and siam NS, it will make a mockery of the National Service system and in turn the government. It is definitely NOT a trivial matter. -
And to add, needless so say there are other cases of injustice to be irked over, even more than Melvyn Tan's case and I do indeed have my opinion on many other such issues, but I am only human, I can only cover so many issues at one go and as the Melvyn Tan issue is the hot topic at the moment, naturally I focus on this topic at the moment.
If anyone else wants my views and opinions on anything else I will be happy to share them.
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still, i don't sense forgiveness in most people here.Originally posted by THE ANALYST:In response to Heng, firstly others might have said so but never did I state or say that Melvyn Tan did any underhand and/or under the table deals with the government.
And about you saying I should yell at the state, I and other people do not do that, because we are not silly, stupid and senseless people (I hope not too many are like that anyway) Like I have already said in my previous post, we give our opinions and views which we have every right to as citizens of this country and (I sure hope) as NS men who have dutifully served our beloved nation. We lobby the government and give our views (albeit sometimes strongly) and hope that our voicing out does have the desired effect on the government, which I gladly say so it seems to have an effect with Teo Chee Hean already saying he is considering more stringent penalties on draft dodgers. In that sense we did voice out to the government but in a matured and sensible way, and not kao peh kao bu and ranting.
And finally you saying that it is a small matter, I think this is a statement that borders on the ridiculous and ludicrous. This is evasion of national service and running away from it and breaking the laws of a country which is punishable by imprisonment. You sayiing this is not a serious matter? If every person can do this kind of thing and siam NS, it will make a mockery of the National Service system and in turn the government. It is definitely NOT a trivial matter.
Its a different matter between voicing out and saying in future people should face stiffer punishments, and saying that Melyvn should be retried and jailed, or made to serve his NS, or any other forms of baying for his blood.
I believe i've also told u my 4 reasons? IF I did, then I want to ask, why is it I can still find forgiveness for his "crime" when others can't? Esp since we all know who the real culprits here are, and who should really be blamed? -
But do you admit that it is not correct and right to say that it is a trivial and small matter?
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basically, we sgporeans r very forgiving people. we can forgive but we can nvr forget. tats all