Revaluing the yuan helps no one
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in which post did i say "dollar peg means currency is not devalued"?Originally posted by Salman:It is clear that Boy in Blue does not know what he is talking about.
Yuan to dollar peg does not mean it is not devalued.
The whole point is, the Yuan is pegged in a devalued position to the USD.
Why is it that people who don't know basic economics want to discuss on monetary policy?
I suggest all of you go back to your A level econs text book and reread it becfore your next post. -
So you do accept that the peg can be a devalued one. Good for you, you are inching towards education.
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I find you too Naïve to be true, what exactly are you?Originally posted by Salman:So you do accept that the peg can be a devalued one. Good for you, you are inching towards education. -
resort to name calling, you are pathetic.Originally posted by Salman:You just made yourself and the rest of the pro china gang look stupid.
Thanks -
My stand is clear. I'm neutral.
Anyone who wants to compete, let them compete on equal terms. Export subsidy through undervaluation of the Yuan is an unfair practice that will adversely affect trading partners. The net result is, this region has lost millions of jobs and billions of dollars of investments. -
1) why should a company remain in Singapore when 90% of their products are heading for China? WHY? Because of YUAN?Originally posted by Salman:My stand is clear. I'm neutral.
Anyone who wants to compete, let them compete on equal terms. Export subsidy through undervaluation of the Yuan is an unfair practice that will adversely affect trading partners. The net result is, this region has lost millions of jobs and billions of dollars of investments.
2) million of jobs lost due to china? where did you get this statistic? which region you talking about?
3) FDI moving into China is not due to Yuan, but rather the supply of cheap labour and the massive market potential. If you think otherwise, please support with facts.
4) Is there such thing as a fair competition in global trade? -
And the reason why labour is so cheap is partly due to devalued Yuan as well.
In other words, there wouldn't be so many jobs and investments going there had the Yuan not been devalued. Simple logic.
If the massive labour is good eneough to attract jobs and investments, why bother to devalue in the first place?
What if every country starts doing the same thing like China? would that be good? -
If China let the Yuan appreciate by 20%, is the labour cost still cheaper than Singaporeans or the Americans?Originally posted by Salman:And the reason why labour is so cheap is partly due to devalued Yuan as well. In other words, there wouldn't be so many jobs and investments going there had the Yuan not been devalued. Simple logic.
Most job are created before Yuan was perceived as under valued. what makes your think that when yuan appreciate FDI will stop? What is your theory?
Do you have reason to believe that a company will actually investment in China just because of China's YUAN policy? I think Forex is the last thing that any company will want to bet on and thats why company do hedging.Originally posted by Salman:If the massive labour is good eneough to attract jobs and investments, why bother to devalue in the first place?
You might be too green to know that Singapore MAS also interven the S$ because they have to make sure that singapore maintain its competitive edge over countries like Korea, Taiwan, Japan etc.Originally posted by Salman:What if every country starts doing the same thing like China? would that be good? -
But it would be comparatively less cheap and less jobs and investmenst would go there. Singapore products would also be more competitive against Chinese product.
If China let the Yuan appreciate by 20%, is the labour cost still cheaper than Singaporeans or the Americans?
FDI may not stop, but more FDI would certainly come to this region and less jobs be lost.
Most job are created before Yuan was perceived as under valued. what makes your think that when yuan appreciate FDI will stop? What is your theory?
Of course they will, the value of the yuan directly affects cost of operations!
Do you have reason to believe that a company will actually investment in China just because of China's YUAN policy? I think Forex is the last thing that any company will want to bet on and thats why company do hedging.
But Singapore dollar isn't under valued like Yuan.
You might be too green to know that Singapore MAS also interven the S$ because they have to make sure that singapore maintain its competitive edge over countries like Korea, Taiwan, Japan etc.
Plus, any intervention that is excessive will cost us, unlike the yuan for the Chinese govt.
Seems like you are playing my points well for me already. -
Salman, maybe you dont really know what is the cost gap between China and Singapore. There is no way Singapore will be able to compete on Cost with chinese, regardless if they float their currency. The only thing singapore can compete is IP copyright laws, tax holiday, port efficiency, banking system, security, that is why singapore is focusing more on R&D rather than low cost manfucturing for people like you.Originally posted by Salman:But it would be comparatively less cheap and less jobs and investmenst would go there. Singapore products would also be more competitive against Chinese product.
Why should they choose Singapore? Why not Taiwan, Indonesia, Phillippines, Malaysia? What makes you think that Singapore is the de facto no.2 choice?Originally posted by Salman:FDI may not stop, but more FDI would certainly come to this region and less jobs be lost.
If that is the case, why companies didnt rush to invest in Indonesia when the currecy collapse during 1998?Originally posted by Salman:Of course they will, the value of the yuan directly affects cost of operations!
How can you tell which currecy is undervalue and which is not? Undervalue against which denomination? What do you mean by excessive? At which level will you say that it is consider unfair?Originally posted by Salman:But Singapore dollar isn't under valued like Yuan.
Plus, any intervention that is excessive will cost us, unlike the yuan for the Chinese govt.
You have no points, just full of assumption.Originally posted by Salman:Seems like you are playing my points well for me already. -
yes.Originally posted by Salman:So you do accept that the peg can be a devalued one. Good for you, you are inching towards education.
the peg can be a devalued one.
but that doesn't prove the yuan is devalued -
Salman, maybe you dont really know what is the cost gap between China and Singapore. There is no way Singapore will be able to compete on Cost with chinese, regardless if they float their currency. The only thing singapore can compete is IP copyright laws, tax holiday, port efficiency, banking system, security, that is why singapore is focusing more on R&D rather than low cost manfucturing for people like you.
What about Indonesia? What about Thailand?
And its not true that we cannot compete at all with China on manufacturing.
Had there not been a devalued yuan, we would have kept more jobs in this region. Same for the USA, they can compete with China on many products had there not been an undervalued yuan.
Did I say Singapore is the no.2 choice? Where did I say or imply that? Did you read my posts? Go reread them again.
Why should they choose Singapore? Why not Taiwan, Indonesia, Phillippines, Malaysia? What makes you think that Singapore is the de facto no.2 choice?
Some did. Others didn't because of political considerations.
If that is the case, why companies didnt rush to invest in Indonesia when the currecy collapse during 1998?
Its simple. The yuan isn't on float and China refuse to float it inspite of a massive bond reserve.
How can you tell which currecy is undervalue and which is not? Undervalue against which denomination? What do you mean by excessive? At which level will you say that it is consider unfair?
No amt of ranting can win you debate my friend. The more you post the more you show up ignorant on basic monetary economics.
You have no points, just full of assumption. -
Sino-US trade 'win-win'Originally posted by Salman:Export subsidy through undervaluation of the Yuan is an unfair practice that will adversely affect trading partners. The net result is, this region has lost millions of jobs and billions of dollars of investments.
Chinese Commerce Minister, Bo Xilai said trade between China and the US was complementary rather than competitive. "Some people in the United States are complaining that China's exports have resulted in the loss of jobs there. However, as far as I know, thanks to growing China-US trade, the jobs lost in the manufacturing sector have been more than offset with new jobs in the [shipping, logistics and trade] field," Bo said.
"On the whole, trade between China and the United States is balanced, and China is importing an increasing number of US products," Bo said, adding that China became the fourth biggest export market of the United States this year.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/GL13Cb05.html -
Of course China will say that you dummy! What do you expect them to say?
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i expect him to say that,Originally posted by Salman:Of course China will say that you dummy! What do you expect them to say?
and i agree with what he said.
do you also agree or not? -
Whats wrong with believing that the yuan is under valued?
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whats wrong with believing that the world is not a globe?Originally posted by Salman:Whats wrong with believing that the yuan is under valued? -
Nothing wrong, just that we believe a stable china is more important that a "FAIR" value Yuan.Originally posted by Salman:Whats wrong with believing that the yuan is under valued? -
Your argument seems to contradict what most people believe. I would like to know why you say that USA and Singapore can compete will China in terms of manufacturing cost if they float the Yuan.What about Indonesia? What about Thailand?
And its not true that we cannot compete at all with China on manufacturing.
Had there not been a devalued yuan, we would have kept more jobs in this region. Same for the USA, they can compete with China on many products had there not been an undervalued yuan.
You mentioned that if yuan is not under value, jobs will come back to THIS region. (I have reason to believe that you are from Singapore right?)Did I say Singapore is the no.2 choice? Where did I say or imply that? Did you read my posts? Go reread them again.
now you are saying that political considerations is a factor in deciding your investment. Would China political system be more stable if they float the Yuan? Will china political system be more stable if the economy colllapse?Some did. Others didn't because of political considerations.
Would appreciate if you could do some reading about the risk of floating the currency. its not as easy as what you think.Its simple. The yuan isn't on float and China refuse to float it inspite of a massive bond reserve.
Clue : Do you know why Chinese government is selling their stake in state owned banks?
stop firing blanks, all you make are noise and you will never hit the target.No amt of ranting can win you debate my friend. The more you post the more you show up ignorant on basic monetary economics. -
Why more important?Originally posted by Gazelle:Nothing wrong, just that we believe a stable china is more important that a "FAIR" value Yuan.
what about a stable, Africa, Indonesia, stable, Thailand and stable Singapore?
less important? What about us? -
whats wrong with believing that the sun is a cube?Originally posted by sgdiehard:whats wrong with believing that the world is not a globe? -
The rest of the world would indeed be more competitive against China if they do not undervalue their yuan. Don't you know? Why do you think they under value in the first place? Why do you think they restrict their currency while buying massive bond in reserves? What for?
Your argument seems to contradict what most people believe. I would like to know why you say that USA and Singapore can compete will China in terms of manufacturing cost if they float the Yuan.
This region is more than Singapore right? You see, you put words into my mouth.
You mentioned that if yuan is not under value, jobs will come back to THIS region. (I have reason to believe that you are from Singapore right?)
The economy will not collpase, indeed, it may even thrive as domestic demand increase with valauation of the yuan.
now you are saying that political considerations is a factor in deciding your investment. Would China political system be more stable if they float the Yuan? Will china political system be more stable if the economy colllapse?
The Chinese on the one hand says that imports created more jobs in the US but won't that apply to them too? Surely what is good for others must be good for china too right? Why the double logic? Please explain the hypocrisy.
Why is it most countries float their currencies? Don't they face risk too?
Would appreciate if you could do some reading about the risk of floating the currency. its not as easy as what you think.
The whole idea is the undervaluation of the yuan, not necessarily the non float.
Good for them, privatisation.
Clue : Do you know why Chinese government is selling their stake in state owned banks?
Thats right mister, stop firing blanks. You don't even know you have been firing blanks. I suggest you read up on monetary economics and put real understanding and ammo in your posts. Then we can have reason and logic on this forum.
stop firing blanks, all you make are noise and you will never hit the target. -
you are insulting yourself by asking this question.Originally posted by Salman:Why more important?
what about a stable, Africa, Indonesia, stable, Thailand and stable Singapore?
less important? What about us?
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/keystats/mqstats/ess/essa67.pdf -
Why would the world want to compete with China? The world is now thinking of how they are going to take advantage of China booming economy not competing for job.Originally posted by Salman:The rest of the world would indeed be more competitive against China if they do not undervalue their yuan. Don't you know? Why do you think they under value in the first place? Why do you think they restrict their currency while buying massive bond in reserves? What for?
FYI, china booming economy is not just because of YUAN. Let me ask you how many country is this world is actively lobbying against China's Yuan? beside USA, there is Salman.
You mentioned that chinese gov is holding US bonds. ask yourself, what will happen to China's reserve if Yuan appreciate by 20%? Please go do some reading before shouting and screaming abuot YUAN.Originally posted by Salman:
This region is more than Singapore right? You see, you put words into my mouth. [/quote]
You have limited knowledge abuot what keep the world spinning so, please just stick to Singapore and answer the simple questions that everybody is asking you.Originally posted by Salman:
Do you know how many people are holding YUAN right now? Just like you, they are hoping that Yuan will appreciate by 20% or more. Once that happen, everybody will sell and Yuan will collapse. Do you know why Dr M peg the riggit against the dollar? For fun? devaluing the riggit so that they can compete with Singapore?
[b]The economy will not collpase, indeed, it may even thrive as domestic demand increase with valauation of the yuan.
The Chinese on the one hand says that imports created more jobs in the US but won't that apply to them too? Surely what is good for others must be good for china too right? Why the double logic? Please explain the hypocrisy.
[quote]Originally posted by Salman:Why is it most countries float their currencies? Don't they face risk too?
The whole idea is the undervaluation of the yuan, not necessarily the non float.
So simply huh? I thought you are going to say china government need money to give ang pao during chinese new year.Originally posted by Salman:Good for them, privatisation.
When you finish your economic and finance 101, please come back here and read your own post.Originally posted by Salman:Thats right mister, stop firing blanks. You don't even know you have been firing blanks. I suggest you read up on monetary economics and put real understanding and ammo in your posts. Then we can have reason and logic on this forum. -
no common sense, general knowledge poor,Originally posted by Salman:whats wrong with believing that the sun is a cube?