France and Germany to End Arms Embargo on China
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http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1394428&C=europe
France Calls for End to Arms Embargo on China
By REUTERS, PARIS
12/05/05 14:39
France renewed calls Dec. 5 for the European Union to drop its arms embargo on China, describing the ban as an anachronism during a visit by Premier Wen Jiabao.
Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin said FranceÂ’s position had not changed although most EU states want the embargo to remain in place because of human rights and security concerns.
"We continue to believe that this embargo is an anachronism," Villepin said. "We will continue to work for it to be lifted."
The embargo was imposed after a 1989 massacre when tanks were sent into BeijingÂ’s Tiananmen Square to crush pro-democracy protests.
France and Germany, which are trying to boost trade ties with China, have led calls for the embargo to be lifted.
Many EU member states want Chinese ratification of a convention on human rights and movement towards a peaceful settlement of the countryÂ’s dispute with Taiwan before the embargo is lifted.
EU members agreed in December, 2004, last year to pursue a lifting of the ban by June. But such a move would require unanimous agreement and some grew reluctant after BeijingÂ’s adoption of a tough new law against independence for Taiwan.
Wen welcomed the stance taken by Paris and Berlin in a newspaper interview on the eve of this visit. Beijing says the ban is political discrimination and outdated. -
With access to such weapons, Chinese scientists will have a field day reverse-engineering the newer models and probably develop and improve on them.
Guess who will be the next best arms dealer in town ? -
the people of china need such weapons to defend themselves and their families against terrorists and hostile foreign nations.Originally posted by BillyBong:With access to such weapons, Chinese scientists will have a field day reverse-engineering the newer models and probably develop and improve on them.
Guess who will be the next best arms dealer in town ? -
of course ..... and so do the people of Taiwan .......Originally posted by boy in blues:the people of china need such weapons to defend themselves and their families against terrorists and hostile foreign nations.
and France, of course ... is happy to sell to both sides ... and make a killing, financially speaking, that is ...... (remember Taiwanese Mirages ) ....
It is unprincipled arms dealing countries like France that makes the world a more dangerous place ..... -
besides threats from each other,Originally posted by Fatum:of course ..... and so do the people of Taiwan .......
and France, of course ... is happy to sell to both sides ... and make a killing, financially speaking, that is ...... (remember Taiwanese Mirages ) ....
It is unprincipled arms dealing countries like France that makes the world a more dangerous place .....
the people of both china and taiwan should also be
equiped to defend themselves against terrorists
as well as other hostile foreign
nations outside china and taiwan.
anyway, most of the world including
the US and Japan recognize taiwan as part of china -
who knows, maybe your m1 abrams tanks are now built in china following the wave of outsourcing..
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lol everything made in china lolOriginally posted by vito_corleone:who knows, maybe your m1 abrams tanks are now built in china following the wave of outsourcing.. -
Amusing...Originally posted by Fatum:of course ..... and so do the people of Taiwan .......
and France, of course ... is happy to sell to both sides ... and make a killing, financially speaking, that is ...... (remember Taiwanese Mirages ) ....
It is unprincipled arms dealing countries like France that makes the world a more dangerous place .....
But actually, most european nations , especially France have very tight laws restricting the movement of military parts or potential equipment capable or manufacturing military hardware.
The wassenaar arrangement for example is signed by 39 global nations. It covers everything from precision CNC, 5-axis machines and 'dual-usage' capable equipment.
http://www.wassenaar.org/
Well, France DOES make money out of selling arms or technology...just imagine the profit margin they pocketed at our FR-SG joint stealth frigates? -
as soon as France and Germany start some serious negotiation with china on armed supplies, we will find the americans changing their policies to supply arms to china, or they will loose out. They know how much profit margin there is.Originally posted by BillyBong:Well, France DOES make money out of selling arms or technology...just imagine the profit margin they pocketed at our FR-SG joint stealth frigates? -
they sold them blackhawks back in the early 80s ... when they were warm and cosy together ..... but stopped after tienanmen .....Originally posted by sgdiehard:as soon as France and Germany start some serious negotiation with china on armed supplies, we will find the americans changing their policies to supply arms to china, or they will loose out. They know how much profit margin there is.
the way things are now .... it'll never happen .... because both see each other as the potential enemy ... despite what ever both sides' leaders say ... -
america may not supply the top of the range weapons, but we will never know.Originally posted by Fatum:they sold them blackhawks back in the early 80s ... when they were warm and cosy together ..... but stopped after tienanmen .....
the way things are now .... it'll never happen .... because both see each other as the potential enemy ... despite what ever both sides' leaders say ...
China and america was never cosy, china more a commie before tienanmen than they are now. -
hawks on both sides see each other as the biggest potential enemy .... the US will never sell any weapons to China the way things are now .....Originally posted by sgdiehard:america may not supply the top of the range weapons, but we will never know.
China and america was never cosy, china more a commie before tienanmen than they are now.
and I wouldn't say China is more "commie" now .... Nationalistic certainly ... now that China has gone capitalist ... CCP has lost it's biggest reason to power ... it's now trying to reinvent itself to stay relevant and in power ... we all know from the news the widespread discontent in the countrysides and the wide income disparity among the people ... the easiest thing to do, of course, is to ratchet up the nationalist rhetoric divert people's attention somewhere else eh ....
but we better pray that a war between the two never happen .....
cos as the saying goes :" when the elephants fight, the grass tend to get trampled" eh ..... -
2 U.S.-made destroyers join Taiwan's navy
Saturday, December 17, 2005 at 20:57 JST
TAIPEI — The first two of four Kidd-class destroyers sold to Taiwan by the United States joined the Taiwanese Navy on Saturday, in a move that will boost the island's defense capabilities against rival China.
Both President Chen Shui-bian and Vice President Annette Lu visited northern Keelung to attend a grand commissioning ceremony organized for the two U.S.-made warships, part of an arms procurement package approved in April 2001 by the U.S. government.
http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=7&id=358830 -
The reason China wants the embargo lifted is because it's more of a stigma.
EU has strict regulations and guidelines/ safeguards for a transfer of a high-tech product whether it's military or not.
By removing the arms embargo it doesnt mean EU will start selling high-tech military products to China.
It's more to make a political statement.
EU countries willing to remove the arms embargo recognize that as they move to forge a deeper relations with China, the outdated stigma needs to be put out of the way. -
France renewed calls Dec. 5 for the European Union to drop its arms embargo on China, describing the ban as an anachronism during a visit by Premier Wen Jiabao.Originally posted by Li Ka Shing:The reason China wants the embargo lifted is because it's more of a stigma.
EU has strict regulations and guidelines/ safeguards for a transfer of a high-tech product whether it's military or not.
By removing the arms embargo it doesnt mean EU will start selling high-tech military products to China.
It's more to make a political statement.
EU countries willing to remove the arms embargo recognize that as they move to forge a deeper relations with China, the outdated stigma needs to be put out of the way.
Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin said FranceÂ’s position had not changed although most EU states want the embargo to remain in place because of human rights and security concerns.
"We continue to believe that this embargo is an anachronism,"; Villepin said. "We will continue to work for it to be lifted."
France and Germany, which are trying to boost trade ties with China, have led calls for the embargo to be lifted.
EU members agreed in December, 2004, last year to pursue a lifting of the ban by June.
Wen welcomed the stance taken by Paris and Berlin in a newspaper interview on the eve of this visit. Beijing says the ban is political discrimination and outdated.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1394428&C=europe