why are some Singaporeans despise PRCs???
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oh i remember a PRC classmate in sec sch. he was a humble fella and a really nice guy. I don't remember anyone despising him. The problem is a lot of PRCs who are overseas nowadays are not of his calibre. They seem to look down esp on non-PRC chinese.Originally posted by cornyfish2000:Not all. I've friends in secondary school who were from the PRC, and they are nice guys. We treat them as one of our own.
I think appearance (dressing!) and behaviour are everything... you influence how people are gonna think of you. -
the thing is, if u want to ask us, then we are going to tell u what we observe and think. There is no point going on the defensive is there? not especially when u asked us in the 1st place. if we tell u we think PRCs can be quite anti-social, then instead of trying to convince us it might be because they are ALL shy, why don't u try to see if u can change the way u behave to avoid projecting an anti-social image?Originally posted by huaqing:i 100% agree with u! -
And there we have it, the classic noveau riche who think that money is the ends.Originally posted by HENG@:well, they certainly are the elite of your country too.
on a more unrelated sidenote, many of them in the good unis here in UK, such as imperial college, are the children from crime families in mainland china. One gal I personally know in LSE, her dad is a powerful crime boss. Even has influence in UK. Once her now ex-bf cheated on her with another gal in birmingham, what did she do? order her father's men to have the girl killed. After 3 failed attempts, the bf went to beg her personally to spare the other gal. And she only agreed because she loved her bf.
oh yea my friend was using her laptop once and discovered programs used for debit/ATM card fraud on her laptop. probably installed by all those PRC guys who r always hanging around her, because she has all the money she need, and they want some of it. -
and not exactly money earned thru moral or legal means too.Originally posted by LazerLordz:And there we have it, the classic noveau riche who think that money is the ends. -
Wait till you met a sheep skin covered wolf and you will have a different story.
I have got too much of the experience as i travel alot to China.Originally posted by huaqing:i 100% agree with u! -
Nothing against PRC but I just really want to shout at them when they say "you all Singapore why like that one? Back in China...". "WTF loh! Back in China, Back in China, then go back to China lah".
If Singaporeans go to China and show our culture (kiasu, cheap skate, always bargain...etc), they will point at us and say how uneducated we are.
If PRC come here to Singapore, why can't we just do what we always do (whine and complain) about them?
Don't assume that Chinese people = China people (my apologies if I sound rude on this one).
Don't impose China culture and thinking into our Singapore Society.
Don't act like China people are the only real chinese people in the whole world. -
Undrlying this comment is an overstated sense of pride in the multi-culturalism here in Singapore. Your very remark of "those PRCs shedding off their backward ways" testifies to this patronizing attitude. It is true that living with people from other races/nationalities may help breed a broader outlook and more cultural sensitivity. But this is not necessarily the case. I am aware of the recent case of Singaporean bloggers making seditious remarks about the Malay race here. True they are the minority, but so are the Chinese nationals who display unpalatable insensitivity you have observed. I think you will agree with this point if I could give you credit of objectivity.
On the other hand, a homogeneous environment does not necessarily lead to parochialism and an inflated sense of pride in one's own kind. How a person carries and perceives himself is a result of a combination of factors including his educational background, familial upbringing and economic, social standing. It is the less educated and less informed, regardless of where they come from, who are prone to make condescending remarks about another nationality/race.
And apparently you have a lopsided view of what cultural interaction means. When one culture comes into contact with another, it does not necessarily lead to cultural assimilation/accomodation, sometimes it leads to cultural dissilimation (the display of even more marked and contrastive behaviour) as well. A sociologically objective view should not be prejudiced against either result of cultural interaction. But you are entitled to your own opinion.
Enough said.Originally posted by LazerLordz:These culprits are not socially evolved yet, and as I've said, it's the result of living in a homogenous nation.
I can see our PRC migrants slowly shedding off those backward ways after they've lived here for a while.
it's all about cultural interaction.
same goes for Singaporeans who moved abroad, and they have given up some of our kiasu ways. -
Labelling children from criminal families as elites from China... It only betrays your standard of what elitism means...
I personally know of many studying in London who are former classmates or friends and they do not have criminal parents. If you only interact with Chinese children from criminal families, that says a lot about who you are too.Originally posted by HENG@:well, they certainly are the elite of your country too.
on a more unrelated sidenote, many of them in the good unis here in UK, such as imperial college, are the children from crime families in mainland china. One gal I personally know in LSE, her dad is a powerful crime boss. Even has influence in UK. Once her now ex-bf cheated on her with another gal in birmingham, what did she do? order her father's men to have the girl killed. After 3 failed attempts, the bf went to beg her personally to spare the other gal. And she only agreed because she loved her bf.
oh yea my friend was using her laptop once and discovered programs used for debit/ATM card fraud on her laptop. probably installed by all those PRC guys who r always hanging around her, because she has all the money she need, and they want some of it. -
Some Singaporeans despise PRCs as some PRCs despise Singaporeans. There will always be some black sheep among each flock.
Personally, I have both good and bad experiences with PRC and likewise, I have both good and bad experiences with Singaporeans.
Anyway, I feel that both parties should just be more tolerant towards each other since no one person is ever perfect.
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hello. are u stupid? i said the PRCs in UK are the elites.Originally posted by dreameryb:Labelling children from criminal families as elites from China... It only betrays your standard of what elitism means...
I personally know of many studying in London who are former classmates or friends and they do not have criminal parents. If you only interact with Chinese children from criminal families, that says a lot about who you are too.
AND THEN, ON A SIDE NOTE, I talk about how some of the PRCs in good unis are from crime families. I did NOT say all the elites are from crime families.
learn to READ, and COMPREHEND.
And I only know that girl because she is flatmates with this friend of my friend. Otherwise, I don't interact with PRC kids from crime families. But because there are quite a lot of PRCs in Imperial College (which i am not in), my friend has to interact with them a bit, and he found out many of them are from crime families. So its a fact, which u can argue a lot about, but it won't change. Neither do u have to be so defensive about things and attack others for no good reason, such as saying i only interact with PRCs from crime families, which is YOUR OWN ASSUMPTION. Afterall, I said I know ONE, personally, and how that translates to i interact a LOT with PRCs from crime families, I can't even imagine.
Ok? So yr fellow PRC ask us why, we say why. If u lot do get so easily hurt or offended, then don't ask. Want to ask, then don't go on the offensive so easily, especially if you want to link 2 unrelated observations because you don't understand what others are say, and make stupid assumptions of your own. I mean just look at how u just misunderstand what others say and then attack them for no reason. And u wonder why ppl despise you? Thick or wot? -
overstated?Perhaps, but I must add this disclaimer that I'm speaking from my own experience.Originally posted by dreameryb:Undrlying this comment is an overstated sense of pride in the multi-culturalism here in Singapore. Your very remark of "those PRCs shedding off their backward ways" testifies to this patronizing attitude. It is true that living with people from other races/nationalities may help breed a broader outlook and more cultural sensitivity. But this is not necessarily the case. I am aware of the recent case of Singaporean bloggers making seditious remarks about the Malay race here. True they are the minority, but so are the Chinese nationals who display unpalatable insensitivity you have observed. I think you will agree with this point if I could give you credit of objectivity.
On the other hand, a homogeneous environment does not necessarily lead to parochialism and an inflated sense of pride in one's own kind. How a person carries and perceives himself is a result of a combination of factors including his educational background, familial upbringing and economic, social standing. It is the less educated and less informed, regardless of where they come from, who are prone to make condescending remarks about another nationality/race.
And apparently you have a lopsided view of what cultural interaction means. When one culture comes into contact with another, it does not necessarily lead to cultural assimilation/accomodation, sometimes it leads to cultural dissilimation (the display of even more marked and contrastive behaviour) as well. A sociologically objective view should not be prejudiced against either result of cultural interaction. But you are entitled to your own opinion.
Enough said.
Others might see/feel differently, but I'm gonna give them their credit and benefit of the doubt. -
Probably some of them can't express well. I've got a few friends who can't express themselves well and the Chinese will just shun away. Usually after explanation my Chinese friends will understand and they become best of friends.Originally posted by huaqing:i noticed that some Singaporeans despise PRCs although they did nothing wrong. Why are they despising them? -
That's the best scenario.Cultural discourse and interaction is the best, although you need two parties to be willing to come together.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Probably some of them can't express well. I've got a few friends who can't express themselves well and the Chinese will just shun away. Usually after explanation my Chinese friends will understand and they become best of friends. -
At least I have not used any expletives in my comments so far. The same thing cannot be said of certain rude Singaporeans who cannot check their emotions and resort to calling others stupid. If I have made a mistake in reasoning, point it out and argue cogently. Name-calling only betrays your level of education and upbringing. Now who is depicable here? It's sad.
I laugh at the assusation that I do not understand your childish rantings. I have lived in English-speaking countries for many a year and you are in no position to comment on my ability to comprehend.
You assert that some studying in Imperial College are children from criminals families and quickly add that this is a non-contestable fact. I personally do not have friends studying in that college so I really cannot comment on the factuality of your proposition. However, I am curious how your friends found out the criminal family backgrounds of those children. Do they just boast on campus that their parents are felons? In any case, if this is a fact, as you claim it to be, I believe the authorities of that college should be aware of this situation and should have taken necessary measures (such as forcing withdrawls of the students candidature) because apparently the tuition fees they charge are not earned from legal chanels. We have not seen any reportage of this kind in media yet.
Even if I give you the credit of truthfulness, so what do these isolated cases of these "criminals' children" say about PRCs in general, if I may respectfully ask?Originally posted by HENG@:hello. are u stupid? i said the PRCs in UK are the elites.
AND THEN, ON A SIDE NOTE, I talk about how some of the PRCs in good unis are from crime families. I did NOT say all the elites are from crime families.
learn to READ, and COMPREHEND.
And I only know that girl because she is flatmates with this friend of my friend. Otherwise, I don't interact with PRC kids from crime families. But because there are quite a lot of PRCs in Imperial College (which i am not in), my friend has to interact with them a bit, and he found out many of them are from crime families. So its a fact, which u can argue a lot about, but it won't change. Neither do u have to be so defensive about things and attack others for no good reason, such as saying i only interact with PRCs from crime families, which is YOUR OWN ASSUMPTION. Afterall, I said I know ONE, personally, and how that translates to i interact a LOT with PRCs from crime families, I can't even imagine.
Ok? So yr fellow PRC ask us why, we say why. If u lot do get so easily hurt or offended, then don't ask. Want to ask, then don't go on the offensive so easily, especially if you want to link 2 unrelated observations because you don't understand what others are say, and make stupid assumptions of your own. I mean just look at how u just misunderstand what others say and then attack them for no reason. And u wonder why ppl despise you? Thick or wot? -
i think my friend's prc friends are friendly. wus wrong with em? nothing.
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An observation:
Why is it that when we're talking about positive traits of a group or a race, or non-negative ones "the japanese are hardworking", "the Brits have a stiff upper lip", "The germans are disciplined", "the french are artistic " etc, we find that reasonable and acceptable, but when we are talking about derogatory traits, we'll say that discriminatory and unacceptable ? ...
double standards ? ....
.... I'll let people draw their own conclusions ... -
I agree with the sayings that they insist on using their language n accents everyday everywhere... even in Sing..we may find them quite rude if we can't understand what they're saying, but sometimes its a no choice situation also for them...
I think mostly becoz of Language and Singapore n PRCS talk their languages too much different ... And since here in Singapore is multiracial, English is always used... PRCs in a monocultural, chinese society so they haven't understood how to adapt like in a multiracial Singapore.
Sometimes they r very shy with their poor english.. really.. they don't speak english.. dialects.. malays etc in China.. only can speak mandarin.. and their mouth/tongue is really made only for mandarin words..
Also how to help them in English?? they are get used to speak 1 language the whole life there... In Malaysia, Indonesia still got TV shows in English... in China... almost all will be dubbed to Chinese... even all the english name like david beckham also been changed into their own version. If u ask them directly whether they know david beckham/ronaldo in english they wont know.. so how r they goin to improve in english n other language?I got one experience tried to teach a PRC how to pronounce "APPLE". Its very hard man! as what came out always sounded like "APPOU" with the mouth is making a round shape like when u pronounce a "you"
maybe they also fear that even though they speak english... others will still say their english very funny... Becoz still.. PRCs just dunwan to "LOSE FACE", a typical ego to everybody everywhere... -
Well, you can only improve and fit in if you try.Ghettos form because people are not willing to break free of their collective fear and try to work towards fitting in.Originally posted by trajet:I agree with the sayings that they insist on using their language n accents everyday everywhere... even in Sing..we may find them quite rude if we can't understand what they're saying, but sometimes its a no choice situation also for them...
I think mostly becoz of Language and Singapore n PRCS talk their languages too much different ... And since here in Singapore is multiracial, English is always used... PRCs in a monocultural, chinese society so they haven't understood how to adapt like in a multiracial Singapore.
Sometimes they r very shy with their poor english.. really.. they don't speak english.. dialects.. malays etc in China.. only can speak mandarin.. and their mouth/tongue is really made only for mandarin words..
Also how to help them in English?? they are get used to speak 1 language the whole life there... In Malaysia, Indonesia still got TV shows in English... in China... almost all will be dubbed to Chinese... even all the english name like david beckham also been changed into their own version. If u ask them directly whether they know david beckham/ronaldo in english they wont know.. so how r they goin to improve in english n other language?I got one experience tried to teach a PRC how to pronounce "APPLE". Its very hard man! as what came out always sounded like "APPOU" with the mouth is making a round shape like when u pronounce a "you"
maybe they also fear that even though they speak english... others will still say their english very funny... Becoz still.. PRCs just dunwan to "LOSE FACE", a typical ego to everybody everywhere...
If you as a foreigner is sincere, I believe many of us locals will be more than willing to help you understand our culture.
The transition from a monolingual, monocultural society to a pluralist one is not easy. -
gents, gents, let's not define "culture" so narrowly alright ... culture in anthropological terms extends beyond religion and customs alone, it also encompasses values, ethics, and a way of life, we are Singaporeans, we are from different races, some of us may have been born in different countries, we have our own religions and customs, but do you not realise that we already have a quasi national identity in the shared set of values and ethics on which our society lives by ?
We abhor corruption for example, we don't jump queues, we don't try to "succeed at all cost", but play by a certain set of rules, we belive that honesty is a virtue, not a sign of stupidity in a businessman or a student, etc ... these are a set of values in which we all live by in Singapore, (even if we don't abide by some of these rules all the time) ... thing is, every society has a defined boundary within which it's member's operate, romantic rebels aside, we all have to live within these invisible markers of the society which we live in, so now when we say integrate into Singapore, we're not talking about asking somebody to totally forsake their own customs and religion for something else, but asking them to embrace a certain set of values that's common to Singaporeans.
So is that wrong, or unreasonable, to ask then, that new comers to Singapore embrace these same set of values ? .... I don't think so, for I believe this is what every country or society expects ..... -
I 100% agree with you!Originally posted by Fatum:bro ... it's a reaction, not an action .... I assure you ... most people would only judge you for who you are alone, not where you're from ... read what sgdiehard has written ... if you follow that, i assure you you won't have any problems ...
having said that, there are lots of chinese nationals overseas giving the country a very bad name, where i am, i have observed the following:
. being overly nationalistic - yes, perhaps some are afraid that some people would still think of China as only great wall and pandas and still a very backward place, but we don't need you showing off how great the country is all the time ... good for you that China has sent someone into space, we're happy for you too, it's an achivement for all mankind ... and stop writing graffiti (in Chinese !) in toilets and library tables everywhere, especially when you're engaging in the quasi national sport of japanese bashing ...
. being inconsiderate and quarrelsome - jumping queues, quarrelling with professors, club bouncers, waiters and waitresses, janitors, airport staff, shop keepers etc is a big no-no ... things can be done in a nicer way ... and when in a lab or a library, please observe the silence rule, AND the no food rule ... if you need to listen to music, please plug in headphones ...
. being too much of a show-off - yes, We all know now there are some very very rich Chinese people around, but being too flashy with money just pisses people off, example, don't throw money onto the table when you're tipping somebody ...
. demon driving - people drive from point A to get to point B, it's not war, nor a competition, (PS, it helps to SIGNAL early too ! .... )
. shaky academic ethics, that means not cheating during exams, especially during mid-terms, where invigilators are a bit slack, and hand in your own work and assigments, not copied from others ...
the list goes on ... now, don't get me wrong, I'm not tarring an entire people because of the actions of a few, I have quite a number of great PRC friends here, project buddies, drinking buddies, etc (and i've complained to them about all of the above points too ) ... but I'm just high-lighting the fact that such actions of a few are giving Chinese nationals a very bad name ... good luck with you bro, I know you're probably not guilty of any of the above things, but keep your chin up ... It can't be helped that some people would only judge another group from the actions of a few ...
(come to think of it, it's only like judging the entire japanese race for the actions of their forefathers during WWII, and a few right-wing politicians, isn't it ? .... ) -
I don't think they insist on their language and accent. Outside of Singapore when you hear ppl speaking english we know right the way if they are singaporean or not. I can also tell if they are HKers. Its just the way they speak, to change to a different accent is difficult especially if we don't live there. Unless we are used to speaking english to our angmoh colleagues in singapore, we would find speaking english to an american on the first day we arrive in NY a little difficult and the locals would also have problem understanding your Singlish. its like trying to understand the english of an indian who has just arrived from dehli.Originally posted by trajet:I agree with the sayings that they insist on using their language n accents everyday everywhere... even in Sing..we may find them quite rude if we can't understand what they're saying, but sometimes its a no choice situation also for them...
I think mostly becoz of Language and Singapore n PRCS talk their languages too much different ... And since here in Singapore is multiracial, English is always used... PRCs in a monocultural, chinese society so they haven't understood how to adapt like in a multiracial Singapore.
Sometimes they r very shy with their poor english.. really.. they don't speak english.. dialects.. malays etc in China.. only can speak mandarin.. and their mouth/tongue is really made only for mandarin words..
Also how to help them in English?? they are get used to speak 1 language the whole life there... In Malaysia, Indonesia still got TV shows in English... in China... almost all will be dubbed to Chinese... even all the english name like david beckham also been changed into their own version. If u ask them directly whether they know david beckham/ronaldo in english they wont know.. so how r they goin to improve in english n other language?I got one experience tried to teach a PRC how to pronounce "APPLE". Its very hard man! as what came out always sounded like "APPOU" with the mouth is making a round shape like when u pronounce a "you"
maybe they also fear that even though they speak english... others will still say their english very funny... Becoz still.. PRCs just dunwan to "LOSE FACE", a typical ego to everybody everywhere...
On the other hand, other races also have problem announce some of our english. my colleague went to London and was supposed to be met by a travel agent who really had problem pronouncing his surname NG. How many angmoh can pronounce OEI?
In reservists I still came across singaporeans who have problem pronouncing R and D, so "run" becomes "lan", and "down" becomes "now".
Language is an interesting subject and it is true and not all of our tongues curl the same way. fully agree with you that we should understand and accommodate, especially many of them have just arrived. -
Many of us were born and brought up in Singapore,
We abhor corruption but we often pay (the Malaysian police) just to avoid the trouble of going to pay at the police stations.
We are firm believers in the virtue of honesty so we get our agents in Indonesia to bribe to get the job done and we remain honest, and not stupid.
We do not litter in Singapore but we thought its ok to leave our rubbish wherever convenient in JB cause everybody else do the same.
I think these are more Singaporean habits and practice rather than values and ethics. Being ‘flexible’, ‘in Rome do as the Romans do” is our trait (or is there a better word?), but not necessary our values and ethnics. If it is wrong then we shouldn’t do that wherever we are. If it is against our moral value to visit prostitute then we should not go even if it costs only less than 500 RMB!!
I would say respecting local rules, abiding local laws, accepting people of different races and religions, and accommodating different habits and languages are the values and ethnics in Singapore. I think we are far better than many others, relatively speaking, and we should keep it up and be proud of it.
merry christmas. -
If only every Singaporean is as rational as you, and could think as objectively...
Merry ChristmasOriginally posted by sgdiehard:Many of us were born and brought up in Singapore,
We abhor corruption but we often pay (the Malaysian police) just to avoid the trouble of going to pay at the police stations.
We are firm believers in the virtue of honesty so we get our agents in Indonesia to bribe to get the job done and we remain honest, and not stupid.
We do not litter in Singapore but we thought its ok to leave our rubbish wherever convenient in JB cause everybody else do the same.
I think these are more Singaporean habits and practice rather than values and ethics. Being ‘flexible’, ‘in Rome do as the Romans do” is our trait (or is there a better word?), but not necessary our values and ethnics. If it is wrong then we shouldn’t do that wherever we are. If it is against our moral value to visit prostitute then we should not go even if it costs only less than 500 RMB!!
I would say respecting local rules, abiding local laws, accepting people of different races and religions, and accommodating different habits and languages are the values and ethnics in Singapore. I think we are far better than many others, relatively speaking, and we should keep it up and be proud of it.
merry christmas. -
A problem I face when interacting with PRC ppl is that, due to my poor standard of mandarin, the prc person constantly gives me insulting remarks about me being chinese.
ie "A chinese that cannot speak mandarin well... sheesh"
"...you still call yourself a chinese?"
"your mother never teach you? how come you can't speak proper mandarin?"
"are you sure you're educated? you can't even express yourself properly" -
You know, i can't help but think that people are so afriad of offending that they go through life wearing rose tinted glasses.
I visited Cambodia many years ago. At the time, I would certainly have said that I do not trust cambodians in general. This is because their value system is very very different from ours. The way we behave is very much influenced by the environment we live in. In post-war cambodia, in order to survive, one must glean every advantage, cheat where one can, and explooit others whereever possible. Hence, when dealing with them at the time, i would have cautioned others to be extra extra careful.
I would say the same of the Chinese, though I certainly hold them in higher regard than the Cambodian of years past. Its not personal. That i do not hold them in high regard does not mean I condemn their behaviour, or that i think they are inherently 'evil'.
A couple of months ago, I heard someone describe South Africaans as having a 'Nigger Complex'. He was referring to the fact that some people have become so obsessed with colonial exploitation of africa that they cannot accept criticism of Africa and refuse to accept responsibility for the behaviour and actions of the africans. Woe be to him who dares to criticise africa, esp if he is white. After all, everything that is wrong with africa today is die to the actions of the white imperialists.
Yes, he was crude. But i think there is much truth to what he says.
Imo, there is a variation of that here.