Originally posted by BillyBong:
Likewise you seem only too ready to hang him based one incident. You compare it to a crime. But again, what crime has been committed? You ignored that question to fill your displeasure. The only probable issue here is ethics to which i emphasize: there is no law. Like it or hate it, that's reality.
i do not have the wish nor the capability to hang anybody. the more eager you defend his virtues, the more impetus for me to highlight his moral failings. the analogy with crime is to illustrate that the right or wrong that we have done, doesn't lessen simply because there was someone else with whom the deed was committed. the question was answered but you failed to understand the answer.
at the end of the day, whether or not you have done wrong your conscience will tell. of course conscience can be blinded by fame and fortune but they won't blind the common masses.
To each his own. I'm not here to preach or convince others who already have established principles. If you deem he has broken ethics rule #1, then it's your opinion.
yes it's my opinion, and that of many others too ...
I used Kinabalu as an example. Evidently, the 7 highest peaks will certainly be several tiers higher as a challenge, especially to those you so arrogantly put as 'inadequate'. If you find it so easy, maybe you can duplicate the same feat Khoo did and then reiterate your contemptuous remarks after. It's always easy to claim simplicity when you merely talk the talk.
And btw, kinabalu has a ready route to the summit that doesn't require a pick axe or rapelling rope....
well, well what have we here, another change of goal posts after the original one has been beaten? perhaps you should climb kinabalu without having to train for months before issuing me the challenge?
we are all drawn to or fascinated by different things. to the mountaineer, climbing is the ultimate challenge and all else pale in comparison. but to a non-mountaineer, that goal may be of no consequence. perhaps to the layman, who has never climbed anything higher than bukit timah, mountain climbing is as daunting as the mind can imagine that deserves the utmost admiration. but for the better informed, mountain climbing is simply an activity which, like all other activities, becomes easier with practice. and unlike some competitive sports, where the bar never keeps still, the highest peak is a static goal that once conquered is forever conquered.
taunt me anyway you like, it is not lack of will but purpose for not conquering mountains. as khoo himself has said, life is short. i'm not gonna waste it on someone else's goals.
For your info, his wife openly stated her support independently. Even in his interview in LIFE! a few days back, he was partially uncertain whether or not to proceed with the trip. It was after discussion and agreement with his wife that he carried on. And ironically, the only thing she's pleasantly upset with is he missed the christmas period to complete his underwater record.
i think khoo is a very lucky man for having such an understanding and devoted wife. like all devoted wives, the husband can beat her, abuse her, hurt her but she will continue to love him and protect him and will never say a word that will make him look bad.
As your prepared speech already highlighted, in actual fact nobody gives a damn., why devote so much of your time to pour slime on him? Since you consider his 'feats' inconsequential anyway, why bother to re-word it so 'eloquently' for a smear campaign that borders on a personnal attack?
prepared perhaps, thanks to your original script. my purpose is not to slime him, for it gives me neither pleasure nor benefit. my purpose is to present the other side of the coin, that you have conveniently chosen to ignore. if you only mention his good, then someone else has to bring balance to the whole picture by showing his bad as well. so what you define as "personal attack" is nothing more than the other half of the story that may be non-existent to you, but is nevertheless there.
Does going for self-glory have a mandatory negative connotation stamped onto it? By your account, should we then be slamming everyone in the guiness book of records who are just completing 'bo liao and meaningless' tasks for the sake of personal benefit? To have their name imbued in some worthless Encyclopedia is just a waste of resources and time isn't it?
i have made my stance very clear many times, i wonder why you still ask. pursuing self glory is a personal choice and endeavour. nobody gives a damn really. but when you try to elevate a selfish endeavour into something that it isn't, like glory for the nation and worse still fund it using public money, then that's altogether revolting. i have no problems when someone wastes his own time and money doing worthless stuff. but i will speak out when he wastes public funds doing worthless stuff yet claims to be bringing glory for the nation.
Originally posted by BillyBong:
The more you answer, the more i have this feeling that you simply dislike the man for who he is and couldn't give a damn about what he has accomplished. Unless you need me to recite the definition of a crime, i don't think there's anymore i need to say.
Conscience or no, a crime is defined by the lawbook. I don't think people like Durai gave 2 cents about his 'conscience' given his current silence. Maybe you believe in the 'what goes round comes round' saying; others don't .
dislike? perhaps for the things he has done which he shouldn't have done and which he continues to do. his past accomplishments are merely personal glories that simply highlights his insatiable need for self fulfillment but hardly illustrates any consideration for others, especially for his wife and son.
crime has never been my concern, conscience is though it may not be to you. while there is no way he can compare with durai, his actions have to be put into perspective and not allowed to continue unabatedly.
For someone who claims to have answered the 'question', you seem to have difficulty understanding my previous point. But hey, who am i to judge character. Since you are so quick to pass judgement, continue to stay up on your high perch.
or could that difficulty be yours? i may have passed judgement, but i think that judgement is sound.
I didn't change the goal post. The position remains the same. Unfortunately, you continue to exhibit your usual arrogance and now intend to give a lecture on mind over matter? Please...everyone knows how to harnes willpower to overcome adversity. The issue here is on relative difficulty compared to others. Evidently, nothing classifies as tough for you, but then again, you don't speak for the common man.
shifted perhaps. if standing by my conviction is arrogance to you then maybe you can afford to be a little less petty. it is difficult only for someone who doesn't pursue it with vigour. so you speak for the common man?
For all your rhetoric, that is a real cheap shot.
rhetoric perhaps but only to the prejudiced. speaking of cheap, nothing gets cheaper than hiding behind your wife.
Sorry...i missed something. Did he claim he was doing this for national glory? Your appetite for misinformation seems to have growth out of proportion.
he didicated this record to the nation, which goes to mean he feels he is doing this for the country. but is this as much a record for the country as it is a record for himself? seems to me the record is his to enjoy while hardly benefiting the country. your definition of 'misinformation' seems to refer to anyone else but yourself.
And just so you know, I have no interest in 'taunting' anyone. It doesn't improve healthy discussion nor get the point across. I'm sorry you interpret it that way.
no worries, i'm sure you mean no harm.
Originally posted by BillyBong:
Whether a judgement is sound is for other to decide. Like you already mentioned, there will always exist a balanced argument and not everyone will agree with what you said. Imagine making a comment on something and judging it yourself simultaneously. Self-praise for your own comments then?
that is correct. with a straits times survey showing 94 out of 100 individuals not giving a damn about this "feat", i have faith the soundness of my judgement is close to those of the average man on the street. yes, there exists a balanced argument, mine balancing yours. when you say that khoo is everything but the bad, aren't you saying something and simultaneously making a judgement as well? we all make judgements, self belief is not self praise.
Marginalising the feats of others when you have achieved nothing yourself is not arrogance? You seem to think very highly of yourself, yet continue to merely talk the talk.
marginalising? that's not the way i see it. i'm merely putting his achievements into perspective, that they are nothing more than individualistic achievements, achievable by those who choose to commit themselves. on the other hand, i feel you have over-glorified his "feats". so again our perspectives are different, doesn't mean yours is right and mine is wrong. if merely putting his achievements into perspective makes you think i'm thinking highly of myself, then perhaps you have thought too highly of him instead.
Again that is your presumption. Unless you have some proof that he indeed 'hid behind his wife', your comments amount to little more than pure speculation on your part.
speculation perhaps but just about as valid as a father who claims his son did not commit murder.
Originally posted by BillyBong:
If there is anything the son will learn, it will probably be to remain unnerved by all the negative comments his father gets. Personally, i do hope the son learns to be his own man and retain the spirit of his father.
No point adding more comments that will in turn spark more forest fires. A dignified silence is sometimes better than rebutting point for point, Singaporean-style.
hopefully when the son grows older and gets to understand the world around him, this thing would have blown over and he wouldn't have to contend with the mistakes of his father ... provided the father doesn't continue with his clown acts. khoo should think more for his family. what will he do when he turns 50? go for the oldest man on everest record?
if there's anything to learn it is this: there is more to life than just breaking records. success in itself may not bring respect, for at the end of the day, those most worthy of our respect are the ones who have devoted their lives towards helping others rather than themselves.
lastly what is the purpose of the dare-to-dream fund? to help people achieve dreams they otherwise wouldn't be able to achieve. khoo has already realised his dreams. his later pursuits are not dreams but as he himself says, a means to a living and so he should not have qualified for funding.
i hope he learns something out of this and do more for his family and society.