The "sport" of Japanese Bashing ...
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Well, this was actually in response to a particular thread about the Japanese self defence forces in the Military nuts forum, but it has sort of degenerated into a sort of a japanese bashing thread over there, so I thought to post my response in a new thread here in the end, also because of the assorted Japanese bashing threads that sprouts out every now and then.....
gents, gents ....
Allow me to give a perspective from the other side, the japanese side, my japanese ex-girlfriend taught me a lot of things, (and, I think, I enlightened her about certain unsavoury aspects of her country's history) ...
the japanese believe that a man's sins in life are erased upon death, that is to say, we all go onto death the same way we are born, blameless, on a clean slate, death is the greatest equalizer, so you have samurai in ancient times committing sepukku to atone for their sins (yes, it's not just for disgrace in battle alone) so, in their eyes, they are perplexed by the strong emotions that runs through east (and some in south-east, perhaps) asia everytime someone important visits that famous shrine.
Yes, the current Japanese Prime Minister is right of centre, and yes, there is a rightist movement in Japan right now bent on revising history, and perhaps, reviving Japan's past imperial glory, but there is also a very strong pacifist movement in Japan (including my ex's grand-father, from the WWII generation, a member of the Buddhist pacifist movement). FYI, my ex's high-school history textbook did mention the Nanjing massacre btw.
I find it ironic that some people think it wrong to judge and generalise a people, a race, or a society but happily go about demonising the Japanese, because of the actions of their goverment, or some right wing old fogeys ... in another thread, someone commented that the goverment is elected by the people, and is thus representative of it, so, do you think that all Americans supported invading Iraq ? ... or that the people of Potong Pasir supports the PAP ? ... perhaps the greatest irony of all was how some PRC chaps in this forum complains about discrimination from Singaporeans (an unjust and unqualified generalization I think) ... and yet happily post derogatory threads about the japanese here ... don't you think it's a kind of racism too ? ... and shouldn't we find it repungent ? ... why is it that when we think of WWII germany, we think it as the fault of Hitler and his Nazi thugs, and WWII Italy, Mussolini and his fascists, but when we think of WWII Japan, we tar an entire people ? ... racism is racism, what ever historical enmity you draw upon ... come to think of it, perhaps many parts of Europe and of course China, should hate the Mongols for their pillages and invasion, eh ? ...
for me, I shall always be suspicious of the intentions of some east asian goverments in stroking the old fires of history (along with the attendent chest beating rabid nationalism I should add), it simply smacks of political expediency, why now, for example, ... after years of warm and cosy relationship, did China become so bitter about Japan ? ... for me, a lasting new image from the SARS crisis was the name of the hospital designated as the main SARS hospital in Beijing that came out in news reports, anyone remember the "Sino-Japanese Friendship Hospital" ? ...
of course, perhaps some chap shall be cursing and swearing at me for being a japanese "running dog", and some chaps did accused me of having "no humanity" and "not knowing history" in other similar threads, but it doesn't matter ... I just hope that everyone can reflect objectively and draw their own conclusions. Judge people individually for who they are, not for what they represent. Just as some Japanese school children shouldn't totally believe their history texts, we should learn to look at history and current affairs objectively too, eh ? ... -
Can you help define what your "Japanese bashing" EXACTLY imply ?
Is it the fear of Japanese culture, language or simply racism ?
Or izzit the fear of return of Japanese militarism ?
Let's be utterly clear here:
Asia has no issue wth the former, be it in language, culture, race, religion nor sushi. It is more of the issue of the later that many in Asia still find it troubling when Japan's certain establishment continue to ignore, question and attempted revisionist act on the fact and deeds that were commited.
An apologist might say "yada yada, here goes that old story about Jap WW2 atrcocities again..can ". Isn't that a simple act of brushing aside a very significant past of what makes Asia today ?
Like I had mentioned earlier in another posting, what is stopping Japanese education system from even mentioning Jap's WW2 role in a SINGLE chapter, when German students are required to make field visit at Auschwitz as part of their compulsory curriculum ?
Something is just not right here. Something that what your ex-galfriend might need to find out more. Urgently -
bro,Originally posted by Gun:Can you help define what your "Japanese bashing" EXACTLY imply ?
Is it the fear of Japanese culture, language or simply racism ?
Or izzit the fear of return of Japanese militarism ?
Let's be utterly clear here:
Asia has no issue wth the former, be it in language, culture, race, religion nor sushi. It is more of the issue of the later that many in Asia still find it troubling when Japan's certain establishment continue to ignore, question and attempted revisionist act on the fact and deeds that were commited.
An apologist might say "yada yada, here goes that old story about Jap WW2 atrcocities again..can ". Isn't that a simple act of brushing aside a very significant past of what makes Asia today ?
Like I had mentioned earlier in another posting, what is stopping Japanese education system from even mentioning Jap's WW2 role in a SINGLE chapter, when German students are required to make field visit at Auschwitz as part of their compulsory curriculum ?
Something is just not right here. Something that what your ex-galfriend might need to find out more. Urgently
you've missed my point of the post, first, certain japanese perfectuaral school systems do use textbook that attempt to paint a balanced picture of things, their school system is such that different perfectures have the choice as to what textbooks they want to use, as to the second point, many schools do organize visits to hiroshima, and, contary to what you expect, the emphasis is on the common horror of War, which is why the Majority of the japanese people are commited pacifists today, something which their political scene and goverment system does not reflect very well, and, consequently, some foreign press seldom pick up on,
as to what exactly constitutes Japanese bashing, I would call it racism, just as my original post read, why is it that we find it replusive to generalize about a race, or a society based on certain traits, or historical events, but are happy to do so to the Japanese ? ... isn't that a kind of racism too ? ... to me it is ...
Now, this is not about who's right or who's wrong, nor is it about whose side each one of us are on, ALL of us, irrespective of nationality or origin, are "brainwashed" to a certain extent, we all find it hard to see history from an objective point of view, we were all taught history from tinted lenses. but when we become pawns in a bigger game of realpolitiks ? ... Why do you think National Education in Singapore focuses on the Japanese occupation ? Was it about the Japanese ? ... No, of course not, but to remind us that what happened then can happened again, being invaded by another foreign power that is, not to be on guard for another Japanese invasion ! (a laughable thought btw) As for the political game in other countries, read my original post about the "sino-japanese friendship hospital again", and draw your own conclusions from there.
and let's be clear, I'm not being an apologist here, but we must remember that just because the goverment of the day in Japan is right of centre, (and dominated by more than a sprinkling of hawks too, I'd admit), doesn't imply that that is representative of the thinking of the whole people, it certainly doesn't justfiy tarring an entire people ... how many know that each time some right wing hotheads hold some militarist ceremonies at the shrine, some Japanese left wing peace activists will be holding a parallel protest against them outside ? to me, it seems remarkably similar to those terrorist nutters in Iraq who slice off American and British aid worker's heads simply because their goverments invaded Iraq ... can you see the parallel bro ? ...
When i posted this thread up I expected flak to come in soon after ... but I really do hope that everyone, from all nations involved, can learn to look at history objectively, in context ... and move on to a new chapter ... for I loathe to think what consequences this may bring on in the future, when we all breed such latent hatred in our hearts, and pass them on generation after generation ... -
I honestly think all these Jap bashing are for losers. Get on with life.
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Damned if we do, damned if we don't. The Taiwanese accuse us of being pro-China. The PRC accuses us of being pro-Japanese. The Malaysians accuse us of being pro-USA.
I say, f*ck them all. We don't need the bloody foreigners telling us what to do. -
I love Japanese food, I love Japanese songs, I love Japanese products and I certainly love Japanese girls
It is Japanese militarism that I am worried about. It is true that the hotheads are a minority and that most Japanese are pacifists. However, if the government does not take steps to root out the extreme right in Japanese society, neighbouring Asian nations will never feel at ease. Why does the Japanese government allow members of the extreme right to deny Japanese atrocities during the war if the governmemt does not share that position?
One might say that it is the right of an individual to free speech, however objectionable the position might be. If that is true, why do we castigate the Iranian President for anti-Semitic statements? Why do we arrest little-known bloggers for making racist remarks? And isn't it also the right of Islamic fundamentalists to talk about wiping Israel off the map, as long as they do not act upon that threat?
By not coming down hard on the extremists in any society, it will be seen as acquiescence. -
I read events such as the Nanking massacre has nothing to do with the emperor or the japanese people as a whole. Just a few over enthusiastic military generals.
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What about Chinese militarism? Isn't that an even bigger worry?
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hahahaha, this is the first time i actually agree with you.Originally posted by Salman:I honestly think all these Jap bashing are for losers. Get on with life. -
I am curious, in your former post, you mentioned about shortcomings in what was taught in your ex-g/f's Japanese education system.Originally posted by Fatum:you've missed my point of the post
Yet, in your next reply, you claim by visiting Hiroshima memorial site, it equates to German students of visiting former concertration camp ?
Hardly a match, don't u think ?
In fact, it is PRECISELY of the atomic bombs that had convinced a militant Japan is no go zone. Japanese had to learn the hard way.
Problem is this learning process has NOT being institutionalist and absorbed entirely. Time changes attitude and how one see history.
And this is exactly what Japanese gov and its certain factions are trying to do.
The return to a militarised Japan is very seductive.
Even LKY memo mentioned it is like serving a wine-tinted chocolate to a former alcoholic.
Try reading up this link http://www.csi.ad.jp/ABOMB/japan.html
With regard to racism on Jap, try asking Koreans how they are being treated even in today's Japanese society.
I repeat, Asians do not habour racist attitude towards ordinary Jap folks any more than how Japanese system treated foreigners within.
The issue is historical and facing the one's deed, not about race. -
I supposed you are referring to this Thread ?Originally posted by Fatum:Well, this was actually in response to a particular thread about the Japanese self defence forces in the Military nuts forum, but it has sort of degenerated into a sort of a japanese bashing thread over there, so I thought to post my response in a new thread here in the end, also because of the assorted Japanese bashing threads that sprouts out every now and then
Hmm..considering that you claiming Japanese "bashing" in that thread, it is interesting to see what u had posted:
04Nov:
"A new bully is emerging in the neighbourhood ...... and people are still @**!#ing about the old one that left more than 60 years before ? .... tsk tsk tsk .... all this concern about Japan's remilitarization is misplaced, I think ..... "
06Nov:
"talking to some of the chinese chaps here makes my hair stand .......
seems that everything can be brought ... high school results (good for overseas uni only ... ) ... TOFEL results ...... theses for MBAs .... driving licenses (no wonder the roads there are dangerous ..."
23Dec:
please don't judge an entire people from history, or for that matter, from the actions of a few right wing militarist hawks, that is just racism crouched in historical baggage, isn't it ? speaking of history, perhaps you should read up on your country's relationship with japan in the post WWII period ...
just be grateful for what we have in Singapore ....
The fact is, if you go thru that thread in the Military forum again, debates are centred primarily around Japanese modern military buildup, the possible consequences and future trend. There were NOT a single racist nor hate-driven posting made against Japanese as a race. Instead your above posting seems to be "bashing" someone else instead.
The only "Bashing Sport" that I can relate to any WW2 event is how Jap soldiers competed in beheading the most no. of civilians or bayoneting infants in the shortest time.
Maybe you can share this link with your ex-Jap g/f
http://www.battlingbastardsbataan.com/som.htm
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this is the 2nd time i agree with you.Originally posted by Salman:What about Chinese militarism? Isn't that an even bigger worry?
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Can you imagine if German politicians were to say that the Holocaust was a big hoax and that it never happened? Can you imagine if the Germans were to construct a memorial for Aldolf Hitler and Germans begin to hold memorial services in honour of Nazi criminals like Herman Goering, Heinrich Himmler and von Ribbentrop.
Will Germany say it is the people's right to freedom of speech and Israel should stop whining about ancient history? -
firstly, I stand by my opinion about the first statement, but that's fodder for another thread, secondly, I also stand by the truth of the second statement, which was straight from the horses mouth, so to speak, not from hearsay, not from rumor, but from some Chinese friends here in Canada that I spoke to, if I gave the impression that I was generalizing about an entire society, I apologize, and I stand corrected, obviously, it seemed that I wasn't quite practising what I've been preaching then, However, if this is a smear campaign, then I suggest you dig further, and get a truer picture of what I stand for, instead of selectively digging out a few choice posts to put out here (boy, you must have spent a lot of time doing that, eh ? ), for example, in the "why some Singaporeans dispise PRC thread " in chit chat,Originally posted by Gun:I supposed you are referring to this Thread ?
Hmm..considering that you claiming Japanese "bashing" in that thread, it is interesting to see what u had posted:
04Nov:
"A new bully is emerging in the neighbourhood ...... and people are still @**!#ing about the old one that left more than 60 years before ? .... tsk tsk tsk .... all this concern about Japan's remilitarization is misplaced, I think ..... "
06Nov:
"talking to some of the chinese chaps here makes my hair stand .......
seems that everything can be brought ... high school results (good for overseas uni only ... ) ... TOFEL results ...... theses for MBAs .... driving licenses (no wonder the roads there are dangerous ..."
23Dec:
please don't judge an entire people from history, or for that matter, from the actions of a few right wing militarist hawks, that is just racism crouched in historical baggage, isn't it ? speaking of history, perhaps you should read up on your country's relationship with japan in the post WWII period ...
just be grateful for what we have in Singapore ....
The fact is, if you go thru that thread in the Military forum again, debates are centred primarily around Japanese modern military buildup, the possible consequences and future trend. There were NOT a single racist nor hate-driven posting made against Japanese as a race. Instead your above posting seems to be "bashing" someone else instead.
The only "Bashing Sport" that I can relate to any WW2 event is how Jap soldiers competed in beheading the most no. of civilians or bayoneting infants in the shortest time.
Maybe you can share this link with your ex-Jap g/f
http://www.battlingbastardsbataan.com/som.htm
next, as to what the military nuts thread constitutes, your conclusions are obviously different from mine, but perhaps, since you're inclined to digging up threads, perhaps you'd like to dig out further old threads in chit chat, for i rememebr distinctly a few posts with pictures of koizumi super-imposed over a dog, and a monkey, along with some derogatory remarks about the japanese ? ...
further, just as I believe you think that I am guilty of generalization, I think you are too, I do not dispute the veracity of the pictures, nor is the fact that atrocities were commited during WWII disputable, however, do you imply from these links, that these traits are inherent in the character of the Japanese people ? ... do you imply that they are a blood-thirsty and cruel race ? ... if the answer is in the affirmative, then I'm flummoxed, for I can think of plenty of mass murder and atrocities in the history of plenty of races too (damm ! am i generalizing again ? ) ... for example, during certain dynastic changes in China ? or if one is to claim that historical baggage is still relevant today, perhaps most of Euro-asia should ask for a formal apology from the Mongols, from the time of the blood thirsty great khans, or perhaps the people of China should hate the Manchurians too, for successfully invading China ? (okie, cancel the last, since Manchuria is now part of China ! )
And, in reply to a preceding post to this one, you claim that asian people are only as racist towards the japanese as they are towards others, firstly, kindly name me one country that has no racist attitudes among it's people, (yes, i'm implying a generalization here), if multicultural Singapore has within her, racist bloggers and job ads specifying only applicants of one particular race alone, what more a homogeneous country like Japan, btw, have you seen how Koreans treat the people from the lesser developed parts of south east asia ? ... ever seen a golf Caddy get slapped and whacked with a golf cub before ? ... but of course, we mustn't generalise, and deem it representative of the entire Korean people, eh ? ... and even if you disagree on that point, I would like to ask, so, is racism an action, or a reaction ? ... that is to say, should I hate an entire people because some of that people hates me ? ... damm ! ... perhaps we should all hate each other then, ang mohs, chinese, malays, indians, the world ! ... eh ? ...
My opinion is clear, I think that the recent revival of anti-japanese fervor in certain East asian countries smack of domestic political expediency, (why some still feel the same way in south east asia I have no idea, but i suppose I can perhaps attribute that to a "successful" national education campaign), the people on all sides are caught up in a cycle of actions and reactions, and so the hate gets propagated on ... generation after generation ... whether this is a healthy status quo, I'll leave that to the pundits out there, though i'd have to add that we all see history through tinted lenses,
good day to you -
its a humilation race for both sides. nada wins.
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Well,Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Can you imagine if German politicians were to say that the Holocaust was a big hoax and that it never happened? Can you imagine if the Germans were to construct a memorial for Aldolf Hitler and Germans begin to hold memorial services in honour of Nazi criminals like Herman Goering, Heinrich Himmler and von Ribbentrop.
Will Germany say it is the people's right to freedom of speech and Israel should stop whining about ancient history?
actually, if that were to actually happen, then I would say it's not representative of the German people, (infact, though the Nazi party is technically outlawed today, they are still pretty active, I remember reading in the papers about a clash between Nazi skinheads and leftist students when skinheads were celebrating the birthday of Goering ), and there'll sure be lots of German people of conscience up in the streets in protest We've been trained to think that a democratic goverment is representative of the people, but how true is that ? ... for example, voter turnout in Japan is very low, hovering around 50+% most elections, (yeah, just like Singaporeans, they are also "bo chap" about politics ...
) so, say a right-wing hawkish goverment gets elected into office, that goverment can probably claim the support of only slightly more than a quarter of the people ! ... representative of the people ? .... I'd think not
as for the Germans and the Austrians facing up to their past, yeah, I would say they have done a much better job than the Japanese (oh mine, we're generalizing again here aren't we ? ...
) ... but totally so ? ... btw, Israel got screwed by "Nazis" before after the Holocaust too you know ... anyone remember Kurt Waldheim ? Former Storm-trooper officer, later President of Austria, and ultimately, the Secretary General of the UN during the Yom Kippur war ? .....
who's the chap who refused to seek a cease fire when the massive Arab armies were winning against Israel, but forced a cease fire onto Israel when she turned the tide (famously trapping the entire Egyptian 3rd army), and was winning ? ... -
Its not so simple as many youngster here think.
The historical and political scene,
often with economy and power agenda
is never so stright forward.
We shud look at recent happenings.
My veiw is:
Japan's PM recent actions are only part of his
power play and politic agenda of tarnishing China's image
and stir up Japanese nationalism, hatred towards China.
Which indirectly makes use of Japans wartime crimes or
rather wartime glory, and whitewash them with new twists.
Such tactics are only showed Japan has very cunning political leaders.
Why they do this...
I suspect, perhaps this is the only way Japan can fight against China growing economic powers, which threatens Japan power/economy/influence
lead in the world (Japan as we know is Number2 after US)
Let me repeat, historical, polical and econoimy agenda is never
so stright forward like what many youngers may think.
Becos most people are simple and are only concerned aboout themselves,
they are easily fooled by governments and
did not read between the lines.
Recent Japan polical leaders actions reiterated these. -
on your last assertion, I agree totally ... people ARE easily fooled by goverments ...Originally posted by NuLife:
Its not so simple as many youngster here think.
The historical and political scene,
often with economy and power agenda
is never so stright forward.
We shud look at recent happenings.
My veiw is:
Japan's PM recent actions are only part of his
power play and politic agenda of tarnishing China's image
and stir up Japanese nationalism, hatred towards China.
Which indirectly makes use of Japans wartime crimes or
rather wartime glory, and whitewash them with new twists.
Such tactics are only showed Japan has very cunning political leaders.
Why they do this...
I suspect, perhaps this is the only way Japan can fight against China growing economic powers, which threatens Japan power/economy/influence
lead in the world (Japan as we know is Number2 after US)
Let me repeat, historical, polical and econoimy agenda is never
so stright forward like what many youngers may think.
Becos most people are simple and are only concerned aboout themselves,
they are easily fooled by governments and
did not read between the lines.
Recent Japan polical leaders actions reiterated these.
so ... who is right or who is wrong ? ... in the end, there is no right or wrong answer, but only different tinted perspectives of past happenings, depending on which sides you're inclined towards ...
do you think that the leaders of both countries really give a s.hit about what happened in WWII ? ... no, I don't think so, realpolitiks doesn't work that way.
The east asia of today is a very different place today compared to say 2-3 decades ago, then, Japan and China, along with the United States (Korean war notwithstanding); The Soviet Union, (the Russians has been another Historical enemy, incidently). How times have changed ... now the three former quasi allies during the cold war have now become strategic competitors (however much each of them pretend otherwise), for strategic resources like oil and raw materials, are we going to see another cold war ? ... I sure hope not, but that's up to the leaders of all three countries. But then again, this is how the game is played, your earstwhile ally and friend may become your competitor and perhaps enemy tomorrow, and back again the day after ...
infact, thank you for putting it so succintly, to quote you:
The historical and political scene,
often with economy and power agenda
is never so stright forward.
as I illustrated above, country to country politics operate distinctly from international relations, which encompasses people to people relations, which is often coloured by historical baggages. At this level of the political game, historical events doesn't count for much, yes, a political leader must learn from history, but if he/she allows history to colour his or her decisions, then he doesn't belong to that level of the game. As I've tried to put across time and time again, leaders of various countries stirs up emotions among their people and use them as a useful political tool .... a very useful political tool ....
Remember the Flor Contemplacion case ? ... remember how the Philipino opposition, from the minority in the congress, to the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, to the Philipines Communist Party, all got into the act, with the last even threatening terrorist actions against Singapore interests in the country ? ... but do you imagine for a moment that the Philipino political leaders, or most of the people for that matter, hates us now ? ... that is an example of domestic political expediency, think back to all the times the chappies to our north, use Singapore as a convenient whipping boy for all their ills ? how everything is our fault ? ... how at every turn, we're insensitive to their feelings, and try to use the "law" to snooker them at every turn ? ... and how they threaten to cut off water all the time ? ... but would they really do it ? ... I think not, for both sides know it would mean war ... this is another example of useful domestic and international political expediency.
No doubt, probably some folk in the country north of us view us the same way some east asian countries view the Japanese, lots of parallel if you think about it; a tiny island off their coast, with cunning, calculative leaders, still richer than they are and the people come over all the time to screw their women and shit all over their country (almost like that Japanese mass orgy incident in the Qingdao hotel, don't you think ?... only it happens every weekend when local punters head over to johor nightclubs eh ? ), but when it comes to actions and agreements between the two countries, do you see historical baggage operating ? ... by and large, of course not, even for the good Doktor that just retired some years ago ...
so, since you recognized that the Japanese goverment stirs up nationalism and use that as a political tool ... and after what I've written above, can you not agree that other goverments may do the same thing too ? ... to steer and influence the thinking of their people for the political leaders' agenda ? ... if this is the case ? shouldn't we re-examine our thoughts and feelings towards each other ? ... and shake of the encumberance of historical baggages, and look at current events in their proper context ? ... or are we content to continue to be a convenient political pawn in a bigger game ? ...
good evening to you bro.
(edited a spelling error) -
I donÂ’t think anybody pushing for an official Japanese recognition of war atrocities, correcting some historical facts in some Japanese textbooks, speaking against the rise of Japanese militarism, should be accused of Japanese bashing,
It is obvious that it is the issues here is not against the people. War atrocities happened in the past, distortion of historical facts only appeared in some textbooks recently, not before. Koizumi was the first Japanese PM who persistently visits Yasukuni Shrine, not previous Japanese PM, and threat of Japanese militarism is a fear for the future. It is not just about historical baggage.
Compared with Chinese bashing, the words used, the issues involved, there is hardly anything Japanese bashing here, let alone Racism. Chinese bashing is a smear against all Chinese with distinction between nationalism and race, PRC Chinese only appeared recently. Chinese bashing is discriminating because only the black dots were recorded and all colored dots ignored. Chinese bashing is racist because the cynicisms are mainly against the people and the culture which some find offensive. Chinese bashing is generalization because there are 1.3 billions people but opinions about Chinese were formed based on meetings with a few overseas English speaking Chinese from PRC. I am a Chinese Singaporean, and my wife a Chinese Singaporean, no Japanese girl friend or PRC Chinese mistress.
Much has been discussed comparing how the Germans and the Japanese differ in their repentance for war atrocities in WW2. The Germans are forgiven despite the existence of Nazi party and a few skinheads, why? Germans war criminals were hunted down and executed, full and unconditional apologies by all German heads of states. On the other side, the Japanese put the tablets of the class A war criminals in WW2 in the shrine and respected. Koizumi, as a head of state, choose to pay his respect there. Koizumi went on to say that the peace and prosperity of the modern Japan today has been built upon the valuable sacrifices of those who perished in that war. How do you expect those whose friends and relatives killed by the Jap during WW2 respond. The Germans have indeed done a good job, obviously some Jap politicians should learn a lesson there.
There is really no need to compare how racist other races are to justify racism for any particular race. Nowhere in any posts here imply that Japanese are “a blood-thirsty and cruel race”. There was no anti-Japanese fervor in any East Asian countries before. PRC had much more domestic problems before, they have to improve their international image to host Olympics, for WTO; Korea had its fair share of problems with the north, with corrupt politicians, with economic crisis, and both do not need to divert attention, and wiping up anti Japanese sentiment does not help in any way. WW2 issues came up only after Koizumi began making changes, not before.
All, I said All my Japanese friends had no ideas what the Japanese imperial armies did during WW2. In the same way, All the PRC Chinese youngsters have no idea what happened in China during cultural revolution. I told them the stories and they willingly accepted, the Japanese and the PRC Chinese. Some were grateful they got to know the stories.
Singaporeans are apathetic to politics but we speak English so we are aware what happens outside. ItÂ’s about time more Japanese speak English, Chinese and Korean to learn what their neighbors think about them. Of course, sales of Toyota and Honda will continueÂ…
have a good day, a happy long weekend and blessed year ahead.... -
Fatum, i have to say i do not agree with much of what you said.
Alittle busy now to reply a more thorough msg.
but basically, i do agree much with sgdiehard views.
have nice long wkend and great new year ahead. "-) -
Originally posted by Fatum:
.
firstly, I stand by my opinion about the first statement,
I also stand by the truth of the second statement, which was straight from the horses mouth, so to speak, not from hearsay, not from rumor, but from some Chinese friends here in Canada that I spoke to, if I gave the impression that I was generalizing about an entire society, I apologize, and I stand corrected
obviously, it seemed that I wasn't quite practising what I've been preaching then.
Err bro, I am confused by your last posting.
Standing by one's position is okay. But it certainly does not need to debunk one's position by saying its based on impression, implied understanding and worst, apologetic statements. The more u say here, the more its seems to weaken your 1st or 2nd statements etc or what hv u.
I am pretty sure I had presented clearly to you why this is NOT a sport of race bashing or generalisation of a certain community. In the nutshell, I had provided you with:
a) Fact of the history links and pics
b) Link to Jap's view on WWII
c) Your contradictory statements & innuendo made in another thread.
As you can see, I had at least "dig" into this issue much deeper than you had credited me for.
If you getting fed up with my arguments and sources, its okay.
If you are standing by your case for the sake of some ex-Jap g/l, its okay with me also.
However, please attempt to understand what other folks like sgdiehard, NuLife & oxford mushroom are sharing hereÂ…and no, Drag is an exception. He/she is just nuisance without any arguments, much less any opinion of one's own. At least u have my vote for that !
If you still remains unconvinced the consequence of a "forgetful" Japan, then try reading a lecture by Japan's Assistant Secretary General, United Nations, Mr. Yasukuni Akashi: "Japan and UN: Their Roles in the 21st Century"
Quote from the passage:
"Japanese people do not face our past seriously....German people have seriously reviewed their past....We have not done this."
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Gents,Originally posted by NuLife:Fatum, i have to say i do not agree with much of what you said.
Alittle busy now to reply a more thorough msg.
but basically, i do agree much with sgdiehard views.
have nice long wkend and great new year ahead. "-)
I can understand the kind of feelings that such a topic would stir up, and of course, this is Speaker's Corner after all, so we're all welcomed and entitled to our own opinions eh ? ...
if it help things, you know, I grew up listening to my grandparents' stories about the Japanese occupation, my paternal granny in particular, lost much of her side of the family during the war, including her only brother, who disappeared during the infamous "Sook Ching" operation, the only time I've ever seen my granny cry was the time I and my classmates interviewed her for our History project when i was in secondary school, yes, such scars run deep, and I can still remember running around with a plastic rifle and an ice-cream tub on my head pretending to be killing "Jap devils", when i was still a very young kid living in a Kampong.
But as I grew older and learned more about the ways of the world, of the dynamics of international politics, my perception changed somewhat, I don't deny that there are right-wingers and militant hawks in Japan right now, who still view anyone non-japanese as semi-civilised and fit only to be their serfs, but then again, these sort of bigots people exist in every country, no ? ...
I apologise if I sounded overly defensive, that is certainly not my intention, I just hope that everyone can appreciate that such issues go beyond historical scars and international power play alone, present day political leaders have their own agendas, and we, the people of various countries, are their pawns, we should all try to appreciate the point above, for after all, we'll be the ones sufffering the consequences of their actions, eh ? ...
I sincerely look forward to more of your opinions, and have a happy holiday bro ...
regards. -
drag and salman in this post remind me of the little boys standing next to the chinese kungfu master peddling home made herbal medicine in a busy market, each holding a gong and a pair of cymbals.Originally posted by Gun:.
Â…and no, Drag is an exception. He/she is just nuisance without any arguments, much less any opinion of one's own. At least u have my vote for that !
the master: our medicine is the best medicine.
sound of instrument: gong gong.
salman: the best medicine.
drag : yes it is. -
well bro,Originally posted by Gun:.
Err bro, I am confused by your last posting.
Standing by one's position is okay. But it certainly does not need to debunk one's position by saying its based on impression, implied understanding and worst, apologetic statements. The more u say here, the more its seems to weaken your 1st or 2nd statements etc or what hv u.
I am pretty sure I had presented clearly to you why this is NOT a sport of race bashing or generalisation of a certain community. In the nutshell, I had provided you with:
a) Fact of the history links and pics
b) Link to Jap's view on WWII
c) Your contradictory statements & innuendo made in another thread.
As you can see, I had at least "dig" into this issue much deeper than you had credited me for.
If you getting fed up with my arguments and sources, its okay.
If you are standing by your case for the sake of some ex-Jap g/l, its okay with me also.
However, please attempt to understand what other folks like sgdiehard, NuLife & oxford mushroom are sharing hereÂ…and no, Drag is an exception. He/she is just nuisance without any arguments, much less any opinion of one's own. At least u have my vote for that !
If you still remains unconvinced the consequence of a "forgetful" Japan, then try reading a lecture by Japan's Assistant Secretary General, United Nations, Mr. Yasukuni Akashi: "Japan and UN: Their Roles in the 21st Century"
Quote from the passage:
"Japanese people do not face our past seriously....German people have seriously reviewed their past....We have not done this."
to be honest yes, at first I was, because it felt like a personal attack, but from the way you put things now, no, I'm not, as I've stated below, I am aware of the kind of emotions that such a topic will stir up, and of course, you're, as we all are, entitled to our own opinions. (and if you're wondering if I'm thinking from the smaller "head", because of my lady friend, the answer is no, but nevermind,
)
but then again, many of us falls into the trap of only seeing and listening to what we want to hear, no ? as I have stated in reply to your earlier post above, I do not doubt the veracity of the pictures, nor the websites, we all knew such atrocities happened.
I note that the lecturer you quoted was Japanese, a bit ironic isn't it ? ... actually, not to me, actually. As I've said, is it representative of the people of that country ? the answer is no, as I've tried to put across. How many foreign press reports the presence of domestic protest groups everytime Koizumi visits the shrine ? for example ?
As for a formal apology to the people of Asia, do I think it is lacking ? yes, I do, do I think it would happen now ? no, it won't, no prime minister can do it and survive politically, he'll have his patron support jerked out from under him so fast he'll still be standing up ... (yes, they have their power elites, their MIW if you may, except they do not all belong to a single party). Are there Japanese yearning for a resolution and an apology ? yes there are, just like the speaker you've quoted.
so how do I think we should respond ? It is interesting to note that the recent anti-Japanese riots in China recently was widely reported in Japan, is there a mutual stiffening of attitudes and dislikes from the people of both sides ? yes, is that a good situation ? ... I'll leave that to you. the unfortunate reality is that many people, in any country, would readily respond in the "reaction, versus action" was I have written above. But i shall not continue further along this vein, least I get accused of "working for the other side"
When I got to know this girl, I had whimsical thoughts of showing her an "alternative" history, the history of the Japanese occupation in WWII, I thought of
telling her the stories I've heard from my grand mother, I thought of enlightening her about events like the Nanking massacre, for I thought she would only know about the two atomic bombs. I was wrong. she did knew about it. Infact, in hindsight, I was perhaps a bit naive in thinking that way, in this internet age, can such a thing as the Nanking massacre be erased from history ? ... by the efforts of a few right-wing hawks tweaking highschool texts in a few prefectures along ? ... those hawks were being very naive of course ... the very websites you've listed above, aren't filtered from japanese eyes you know ... (and yes, many tertiary educated japanese do write good and grammatical english, even if their spoken english is quite koyah sometimes).
Have some faith in those in Japan that knows the truth, and will do the right thing.
good evening to you bro.