Should women be made to do NS?
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This is a continuation of my previous 'ranting' in the 'women officers' thread.
Sometime in 1997, many of my fellow officers and myself were asked to take a 'secret' Mindef survey on whether we supported the idea of introducing compulsary NS for women, and if so, in what capacity.
So i ask this same thing of the people here, who will be perhaps offer a better spectrum of opinion (ie not just stupid Ahh-level occiferss like myself
) on the following 2 questions:
1) Should women be asked to go for compulsary NS in S'pore?
2) If so, under what conditions? eg, how long, what sorts of voaction (SCDF? SAF? etc) and when - before Uni, during, stay in or weekend trainings etc. -
i reccomend that women who gave birth to 2 children be exempted from NS or reservist....Originally posted by No Frill:This is a continuation of my previous 'ranting' in the 'women officers' thread.
Sometime in 1997, many of my fellow officers and myself were asked to take a 'secret' Mindef survey on whether we supported the idea of introducing compulsary NS for women, and if so, in what capacity.
So i ask this same thing of the people here, who will be perhaps offer a better spectrum of opinion (ie not just stupid Ahh-level occiferss like myself) on the following 2 questions:
1) Should women be asked to go for compulsary NS in S'pore?
2) If so, under what conditions? eg, how long, what sorts of voaction (SCDF? SAF? etc) and when - before Uni, during, stay in or weekend trainings etc.
Women who gave birth to more then 2 children are given cash rewards monthly till the child turns 18.
I also reccomend that women who dont want to have children be subjected to full NS and reservist duty... and normal NS allowance.
Women who have one children will have NS and reservist that is equivalent to stay home NS or reservist trainging... or be staff at 9 to 5 location with full pay.
women who is not happy with the above... can opt out of the NS and have no children but must contribute 50% of their income to CPF... least they become burdens of the society when they turn old and the face look like a prune with no husband, no children to support them and having to looking forward to die a spinster. this group of women should also have a compulsory saving that can be used to buy them a grave place when they die.... all their properties must be turned over to the state upon their death... no wills is permitted. -
I think the idea is to make them contribute to Singapore as well. As it is these women folk of ours just breeze into uni, and then go on to the working world and leave their peers 3 years behind.
I was thinking, that their NS requirement should be:
1)also 2-2.5 years, with reservist up till 13 cycles like us (or age 55 like officers LOL)
2) They should be sent incamp to do signaller, medic, HQ job, armourer, vehicle repair jobs if in the army, air force or navy. If in the SCDF, then everything also can. Like Israel, they should also all be trained to shoot and have basic marksmanship training and if in the army, be trained to operate at platoon level. Those with promise can go on to OCS or other combat fields, but no standards should be lowered for them.
3) They can serve their 'time' if in a combat vocation 'one-shot' like us. If in service vocation, then they should be held for longer, come for 2-3 week training cycle and come down once every 6-8 months for exercise and refresher course
cos in our people scare land, every non-combat role filled by a woman frees up more manpower to go to the field...this makes for a more combat effective force.
Same thing happened in Germany, Russia, and the the European coutries during WW2...the men went to fight and the women filled all the support roles.
Whatever it is, i'm just opposed to the fact that all the women get off scot free now in S'pore and just enjoy the peace and prosperity brought on by us guys. They shop and drink cofffe at Starbucks while we sit with FBO during 4 NTM.
We crawl in mud and burn our weekends and they sit in aircon NUS, NTU and study.
And when we are working we have to go back for reservist and they just continue working.
The worst thing is that they don't even seem to appreciate the emormous sacrifice that we men are making for the country.
It's about time they gave something back.
And sorry girls, if you're reading this, motherhood isn't NS! -
Well, for Tripwire's suggestion, i think girls will be called in early to serve NS b4 they have a chance to give birth to 2 or more children to get exempted given the late child bearing age of singapore woman. i would think it's quite a fair system suggested by No Frill. But i seriously won't think the suggestion will work and the government will definitely not implement it. Firstly, majority of the votes that the government are getting come from the womanfolk who are enjoying the good life here in singapore. Will they make a risk at this? Maybe that's the reason why a internal "secret" survey was done instead of a public one. In the end it will be NATO.
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Let's think of the quite pausible scenario in which our nation birth rate could not substain our manpower needs for national service. With respect to tripwire's suggestion, one should note that monetary benifits are no longer a carrot to our womenfolk. With the 3 years headstart, they can earn well enough to cover it. Furthermore, if they opt not to have children, the income they gain will far exceed what they get from those bonuses that the government offers.Originally posted by tripwire:i reccomend that women who gave birth to 2 children be exempted from NS or reservist....
Women who gave birth to more then 2 children are given cash rewards monthly till the child turns 18.
We should view this problem in a different light. The carrot approach has shown to produce dismaying results and there is no reason why one should continue in this manner. Bonus can still be used as an incentive but with a twist. Our womenfolk should be made to sign a clause at the age of 18 having the following conditions:
1) If she wants to be exempted from NS, she has to bear a minimium of 2 children {to satisfy the minimum statistics to ensure a stable popultation growth} by the age of 35. {To lower the chance of Down Syndrom }
2) In the event that she does not fufill this clause by the maximum age, she has to pay out an amount equalvalent to 35% of her total assets as a donation to various charities. Failure to do so will result in pausible legal action against her and her immediate family.
3) In the event that she could not get a husband or any other means to gain children, there will be 2 options left
i) age : 25 < age < 34
She has to sign up for compulsory National service, or opt for artificial means to produce children
ii) age : age >= 35
Apply condition (1) to her.
3) If she chooses to immigrate or take PR somewhere else, she has to deposit an amount up to S$500,000 with the government. Failure to satisfy conditions (1) and (2) will result in the S$500,000 being donated to charities.
Of course for those women who bears children, the baby bonus still applies.
Let's face it. We will be in dire straits if we do not take drastic measures. As Machiavelli said, the end justifies the means. We need to, above all else, ensure our survival for the future. -
Wow you are a sadist.....but interesting ideas...wonder if the junta would consider it ^_^Originally posted by CenturionMBT: -
THink if ur gf saw this thread... she'd kill U man....
better pray hard... -
Get a PR gf, and she won't kill you for this then.
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and the UNITED NATIONS will be hounding us on human rights violations.
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Well, this maybe true, however, how efficient is the UN in enforcing such regulations? Trade embargo? Withdrawal of WTO status?Originally posted by Shotgun:and the UNITED NATIONS will be hounding us on human rights violations.
Now this world is a pretty double standard place. As long as the world wide community needs you, you can rest assured that hounding would just remain hounding and no more {for example : Israel}.
Secondly, if this is interpreted as a human right violation, then the baby bonus could be twisted by human right / women right advocates as a form of human right violations as well {don't ask me how...they can find any cock and bull reasons to do so}.
Thirdly, as I have pointed out in the previous post, our birthrate is declining and unless we do something about it, there isn't much people we can choose from to defend Singapore. Already the male to female population in Singapore is approximately 1 : 2. If we are not allowed to conscript females into National Service, the only alternative means is to ensure that the femalefolk help out by maintaining our birthrate. I know I may sound sexist to some, but what I am stating is cold hard facts. I do not like it personally and I would not want my girlfriend to be a child bearing machine. But in the interest of ensuring our survival in the future...perhaps a small sacrifice on our part might suffice much.
Female right advocates could suggest relaxing the immigration policies to bring in younger blood to defend our nation. My question is, how do we measure the degree of their loyalty to our nation and cause? Paying lip service won't do in matters of ensuring survival. Mercenaries isn't a solution either. But this belongs to another thread, and I am not incline to discuss it here.
Hence, unless cloning technology could reach such a stage where it could replace the birth cycle ...I do not see any other viable alternatives. -
I agree in principle with CenturianMBT's idea that women need to play a constructive role in our national survival. However, I think that his policies (though i do personally agree with them in many aspects - cos i think that many of our females here are self serving materialistic little insulated shits; but that alas is another story) need to be tampered with inevitable international opinion.
A better way to make women in S'pore pay their due is to make them serve the non-combat vocations in the SCDF, army, navy etc...
Forcing women to have children is somewhat draconian, and would get S'pore in a load of trouble internationally. Those femi-nazis will start frothing at their lips and start burning our flags across the world!
I also think it would be a touchy issue infringing on the point of Human rights to compel women to have children, regardless of the justified ends to be achieved.
I guess a good start is to start compulsary enlistment or women for all these services. I mean just think, if we had 20,000+ women entering NS every year, and if even 1/5 of them are trained as medics or paramedics, mechanics, armourers, clerks, etc, that will free up thousands of able bodied men to form more combat ready divisions.
I suppose that having a child is still \, at the heart of it all, a very personal choice and I wouldn't violate that right with a ten foot pole.
If S'pore did that, we'd be no better than Hitler's Nazi youth regeneration programme which he started running in 1933...where pure aryan women were plucked from their homes and housed in bavaria where the air was clean to 'mate' with selected pure aryan SS officers to produce pure Aryan offspring who were then conscripted into the Nazi youth.
A frightening thought.
I'd settle for a women OETI mechanic or signaller anyday
Would be hilarious to see sexual puns like after range, we walk up to a woman armourer back at the base and and say :" excuse me corporal, can you please clean my gun for me...it's jammed and can't shoot off properly' LOL
just kidding folks -
Female Signaller ??? No Frill, that won't do. I can imagineOriginally posted by No Frill:I
I'd settle for a women OETI mechanic or signaller anyday
59er : Hello 09er, this is 59er message over
09er : 59er speak up. I cannot hear the f**k what you are saying
59er : Burst into tears....
Just joking ^_^
But seriously, a signaller job may not be suitable for a female, basing on your previous threads that they do SOC in clean fatigue. A combat signaller needs to be much fitter than that.
Air Force Technicion or Radar Monitoring Personal (sorry I do not know the technical term here) would be better suited for them. This will allow their meticulous nature to be maximize to the fullest potential in the army. And of course, a radar screen does not scold f**k u in our face =) -
Well if you consider Singapore's situation, in which the more highly educated were told to marry and have more children to ensure a "smarter offspring", getting more university students to stay at hostels to cultivate the right atmosphere to cultivate feelings and procreate, we are basically do some form of youth regeneration ourselves.Originally posted by No Frill:If S'pore did that, we'd be no better than Hitler's Nazi youth regeneration programme which he started running in 1933...where pure aryan women were plucked from their homes and housed in bavaria where the air was clean to 'mate' with selected pure aryan SS officers to produce pure Aryan offspring who were then conscripted into the Nazi youth.
A frightening thought.
Personally, I do not believe in our great leader's idea of eugenics...it makes us sound like
we can control the quality of children that we should have and the kind of intelligence that we want {there are 7 intelligences} etc.
However, with respect to CenturionMBT suggestion, I believe it may become reality in the future with our citizens not beening very cooperative. Here are some URLs from Kyo23's thread which validates my points
Be afraid, be very afraid
Why PM Goh did not receive his baby bonus
'characteristically stingy' Baby Bonus
Draconian? Maybe. But as CenturionMBT said, it may become reality when our national survival is compromised -
Encouraging Women to give birth is one thing, ENFORCING it is a totally different matter. I can just imagine women's rights activists groups burning Singapore flags already. Majority of them from up north.
Anyway, last I checked, theres' no point gettin women to fill up non-combat posts in order to free up able bodied men. Cos all the able bodied men are busy digging up past injuries, and breaking appendages on purpose to downgrade.
The way I see it, its in the mindset. Change people's POV about the Army, and actually make them want to serve and be proud to be among the guardians of the country. "easier said than done", "fat hope." Personally, i feel, such negative feelings towards the army comes from the fact that our army has not been publicly active in deployments. All we send are medics. Technically, no combat achievements. History plays an important part in the pride of a unit, the pride of an army. If the army has not done anything for people to feel proud about, then I'm afraid the mindset will continue.
PS. I'm not saying that we are not proud of our combat medics that were deployed to help in many UN missions. I'm just saying that people don't percieve it that way. -
Awwwwwwww .... my friendly neighbours now resorting to raping women to have soldiers .... *laff*Originally posted by Shotgun:Encouraging Women to give birth is one thing, ENFORCING it is a totally different matter. I can just imagine women's rights activists groups burning Singapore flags already. Majority of them from up north.
NS bois too much army make you all ball less that's Y.......
Anyway I got better things to do then to see you all miserable impotent pigs
Ta. -
Originally posted by FuckSpore4ever:
Ooooh...look at the cute little troll pointing his ugly green nose where hes got no business in...go back to your hole troll...shoo shooo
[B]
Anyway I got better things to do then to see you all miserable impotent pigs
B]
This is my 1st and last reply to you. Do not feed the troll and let him die -
Originally posted by Viper52:
Ooooh...look at the cute little troll pointing his ugly green nose where hes got no business in...go back to your hole troll...shoo shooo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by FuckSpore4ever:
[B]
Anyway I got better things to do then to see you all miserable impotent pigs
B]
This is my 1st and last reply to you. Do not feed the troll and let him die
[/QUOTE]
*laff*...better than an impotent snake-pig hybrid...
Think SAF very big...*laff*....Sorry...a army that can't get people to fill in the gaps and to resort to raping is no army at all
Go and hire some mercenaries...coz they might do U all cowards some good -
Besides public deployments, another reason could be due to the poor leadership examples by some black sheep in the army. Due to our small population size and our lack of international exposure, it is hard to get really inspirational leaders who can instill a sense of pride and belonging in the army..."Farmers" unfortunately are far and few and some NS conscripts view officers who get promoted on their merit of having a higher education status as bogus.Originally posted by Shotgun:The way I see it, its in the mindset. Change people's POV about the Army, and actually make them want to serve and be proud to be among the guardians of the country. "easier said than done", "fat hope." Personally, i feel, such negative feelings towards the army comes from the fact that our army has not been publicly active in deployments. All we send are medics. Technically, no combat achievements. History plays an important part in the pride of a unit, the pride of an army. If the army has not done anything for people to feel proud about, then I'm afraid the mindset will continue.
PS. I'm not saying that we are not proud of our combat medics that were deployed to help in many UN missions. I'm just saying that people don't percieve it that way.
Such mindsets could not be changed overnight...perhaps by sending out medics, we are taking the first step into gaining public recognition for our arm forces. Perhaps decades down the road after a number of significant exposure, Singaporeans will change these negative images of our army.
Just a short diversion, would any of you guys / girls here support the idea of sending NS conscripts for peace keeping / humantarian missions?
To FuckSpore4Ever : Get out of this place and stop making a nuscience of yourself -
Nope, i don support such an expenses that serve not much a purpose. I would suggest the authority to stop squandering money and wasting land building Officer club house and golf club to at least not tanish any further the reputation of the army.Originally posted by Rudin:Just a short diversion, would any of you guys / girls here support the idea of sending NS conscripts for peace keeping / humantarian missions? -
I thought the golf club is for all SAF personals ? Anyway I am not too sure myself...I don't play golf =)Originally posted by Kyo23:Nope, i don support such an expenses that serve not much a purpose. I would suggest the authority to stop squandering money and wasting land building Officer club house and golf club to at least not tanish any further the reputation of the army. -
yup, for those officer pig to practice their target shooting so as to protect this land better. And hence to cost land shortage and less nature reserve area.Originally posted by Rudin:I thought the golf club is for all SAF personals ? Anyway I am not too sure myself...I don't play golf =) -
hey you sore little chimp from the hinterland, needled dick, get an economy before you come back to this forum.
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*laff*...we do have an economy...our GDP is higher than Yours !!!Originally posted by No Frill:hey you sore little chimp from the hinterland, needled dick, get an economy before you come back to this forum. -
In summary, the only country that draft women into its NS is Isreal. Their women soldiers serves as instuctiors in combat vocations and in the service vocations there is no restrictions. They have some women tank and sinpers instructors also.
And I did kana the women instructors in SISPEC they are even more fierce than the men instructors. -
Do they use vulgarities ? I am not too sure...'cause when I was at SOS, the female personals there were quite civilized...almost akin to office girlsOriginally posted by jagkoh:In summary, the only country that draft women into its NS is Isreal. Their women soldiers serves as instuctiors in combat vocations and in the service vocations there is no restrictions. They have some women tank and sinpers instructors also.
And I did kana the women instructors in SISPEC they are even more fierce than the men instructors.