Many Singaporeans migrating....How come???
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there are many "part time singaporeans" who laff in my face when they told me about ou local policies. But then whose to blame but us fools who developed such policies against our own local people in the first place.
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yeah, part-time singaporeans call our gahmen that gave them the passport 'stupid'. "Singapore gahmen stupid! Singapore laws stupid! Singapore people stupid!"
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We all like to reiterate the govt's propaganda about how singapore is our home, our country, and how we should die for this place...
Can anyone tell me, what are the perks of being a Singaporean? Is there an advantage being a citizen over a PR or FT? Why?
While NS is a very good training ground for guys to develop useful life skills like leadership and the ability to socialise, many guys do not see the necessity of serving the military, hence have a lack of pride in the service.
Many people have told me that the advantage of a citizen is the ability to vote. That becomes a moot point in the view of the too many walkovers. What elections?
Does the country value the "real" sons and daughters of sg? Are we being held in a better light than FTs and PRs? What constitutes a "real" son or daughter of sg? Apparently, as long as you get a NRIC, you become a "real" son or daughter of sg.
I have a rudimentary understanding of coporate and political governence, but I do know that a country has to be run a little different from a company.
While a coporation's aim is to mazimize profits and shareholder value, a country also has to directly cater to ensuring the general well being of their citizens and voters. This, amongst other reasons, contributes to a citizen's loyalty to a country.
There is no such thing as loyalty to a company anymore.
Some contridictions that I've noticed after living here for so long:
Outsourcing high paying jobs to FT using the excuse that there is not enough skilled workers in sg to take on such positions.
Complaining that sg has too many skilled workers that demand a too high a pay and hence low level yet essential jobs are left vacant. Even more FT are needed to fill those positions.
Telling citizens to be more politically aware, to speak up and play a bigger role in the local political scene.
Suing and ruining those that oppose the ruling class. Putting miles of red tape that hinders potential opposition members.
Telling citizens to enter politics out of a love of the country, not for money.
Blackmailing themselves for high pay by claiming that if they can get a higher pay elsewhere, they will leave. Also, if they are not paid enough, they wil start embezelling and turning corrupt. -
I did an internship with a prc poly student before. He was saying that he just wants to use singapore to go further in other countries. He doesn't even intend to serve his 3 years bond!Originally posted by taurian:yeah, part-time singaporeans call our gahmen that gave them the passport 'stupid'. "Singapore gahmen stupid! Singapore laws stupid! Singapore people stupid!"
Many foreign students in undergraduate degree courses have similiar mindset. Its all about the money.
And the emperor's men happily tells us that these FT have immense loyalty to the betterment of this country. -
My brother and his girlfriend are planning to migrate to australia in 1-2 years time. As a young Singaporean, i find it sad to see so many Singaporeans in 20s-30s who are thinking to migrate. The only reason my brother wants to retain Singapore Citizenship is because of the low tax rates so he is trying to work something out.
The goverment must be secretly happy with the replacements. They do not complain about Singapore. These replacements are too glad to have the Singapore Citizenship to complain. In return they can get million dollar salaries without anyone to question them. These new citizens will not bother to question the goverment on why OTC was denied the books of the reserves, or why GIC traders that are caught for insider trading are let off lightly because they are busy planning to make their exit. Its a win win situation! -
And I am still missing it. I still don't get what you are trying to say...Originally posted by gill_hfc:Salman and the other writer are missing the point in my thread....this so called 'Part Time Singaporeans' are using us to move on further.....If one migrates to Australia, chances are one will settle down in Australia for good....in the case of Singapore I think alot of these people from third world countries use us to get a Singapore passport and then move on to other developed countries....this new 'Part Time Singaporeans' have no loyalty or intentions of staying here forever.....like the case of the guy i met in London he used a Singapore passport, achieved through his citizenship, to apply to migrate to London...he never had any intentions of staying in singapore forever...
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The country is run by economists. They are excellent in managing $$$ and reading balance sheet. Beyond that, they have no idea on how to create a country with a humanist touch; a home; a place where one feel free and unoppressed to express oneself. A place where every single citizen feel a sense of belonging where simple words like 'sharing' & 'caring' for people of Singapore and people to people is a natural phenonmen. We don't need monkeys performing a freak shows and fake sobs to 'force donation' on TV. We don't need charities operating like a corporation with intention to maximise returns, hell, this whole country is run in similiar fashion, LTA, HDB, etc.
If you work in a company that treat you like a sugar cane and discard you after the jucie is extracted......would you still be loyal to that company? As young singaporean, we merely have to look at the foodcourts and macdonalds to witness these used sugarcane....i mean who (if given a choice) would still want to lift that heavy trash bag at that age? Those poor peasants would rather go for stroll with their grand kids, play mahjong etc. During my recent trip to China hardly do i see aged people clearing trays in restaurants. Instead I see retirees taking part in group dance and taichi. Real genuine warm smiles radiate from their face...thoroughly enjoying themselves.
My days in australia also saw similiar conclusion......old folks take leisurely afternoon stroll and afternoon tea in cafes....(tables cleared by young waiters)
Even in Johore restaurant...do you see old folks clearing after you?
The conclusion is easy to draw, our local old folks is a mirror of the young sporeans' future. Slave to the bones.
The system adopted by these capitalistic economists is ruining our homeland, they are purely profit driven.....balance the equation!.....no such thing as a free lunch!.....workfare not welfare! If you have parents that treats you like an employee....what would you do? Answer this and you will know why the young here are migrating. -
I think the reasons are as follows:
Subaru WRX STI: SGD$120K (Approx)
AU$54K (Approx)
Singapore CTE, PIE, ERP, COE = $$$$$$
Whatever country = FREE
SGD$200K - SGD$300K = Singapore HDB 5 room
AU$100K - AU$150K = Bungalow + Pool + Garden
SG girl = Smaller + Conservative
Ang Moh Girl = Bigger + Anytime
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very well put.Originally posted by urbanomad:The country is run by economists. They are excellent in managing $$$ and reading balance sheet. Beyond that, they have no idea on how to create a country with a humanist touch; a home; a place where one feel free and unoppressed to express oneself. A place where every single citizen feel a sense of belonging where simple words like 'sharing' & 'caring' for people of Singapore and people to people is a natural phenonmen. We don't need monkeys performing a freak shows and fake sobs to 'force donation' on TV. We don't need charities operating like a corporation with intention to maximise returns, hell, this whole country is run in similiar fashion, LTA, HDB, etc.
If you work in a company that treat you like a sugar cane and discard you after the jucie is extracted......would you still be loyal to that company? As young singaporean, we merely have to look at the foodcourts and macdonalds to witness these used sugarcane....i mean who (if given a choice) would still want to lift that heavy trash bag at that age? Those poor peasants would rather go for stroll with their grand kids, play mahjong etc. During my recent trip to China hardly do i see aged people clearing trays in restaurants. Instead I see retirees taking part in group dance and taichi. Real genuine warm smiles radiate from their face...thoroughly enjoying themselves.
My days in australia also saw similiar conclusion......old folks take leisurely afternoon stroll and afternoon tea in cafes....(tables cleared by young waiters)
Even in Johore restaurant...do you see old folks clearing after you?
The conclusion is easy to draw, our local old folks is a mirror of the young sporeans' future. Slave to the bones.
The system adopted by these capitalistic economists is ruining our homeland, they are purely profit driven.....balance the equation!.....no such thing as a free lunch!.....workfare not welfare! If you have parents that treats you like an employee....what would you do? Answer this and you will know why the young here are migrating.
This is a corporation trying to re-introduce care and humanity through the style of the usual office welfare program, except that the coffee and doughnuts are borne by the staff, but the atmosphere is there to delude the employees that the management actually wants them to really have a day off, but they don't realise the hidden cost of paying for the welfare program through their own paycheck.
They fail to see it because their involvement in the collective enjoyment, hides and shields them from the stark reality. -
Wah, you're good.Originally posted by LazerLordz:very well put.
This is a corporation trying to re-introduce care and humanity through the style of the usual office welfare program, except that the coffee and doughnuts are borne by the staff, but the atmosphere is there to delude the employees that the management actually wants them to really have a day off, but they don't realise the hidden cost of paying for the welfare program through their own paycheck.
They fail to see it because their involvement in the collective enjoyment, hides and shields them from the stark reality.
Very good. -
they dont really care.
afterall the dwindling population does not affect them. they still make big bucks. -
law of diminishing returns.Originally posted by dragg:they dont really care.
afterall the dwindling population does not affect them. they still make big bucks.
I feel let down by such a nation. -
I personally feel that all the efforts put on nation building over the past 40 years have been wiped out with the policies churned out in the past few years.
But hey, that's just me. -
Maybe they're not happy with how the state takes away from them than give them and they find that in certain countries, the state gives than takes away.
Or maybe because they dread to stay and be abused in an animal farm.
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the role of the state.frankly, don't you sometimes wish that for a bit more tax, you could have some form of safety net should you be unemployed..Originally posted by macjoe:Maybe they're not happy with how the state takes away from them than give them and they find that in certain countries, the state gives than takes away.
Or maybe because they dread to stay abd be abused in an animal farm.
or that your kids don't have to come home at 8pm and work till 11pm, and that's at Primary school level.. -
i would not be too worry of singaporeans migrating or part time singapore PR or citizens, afterall those left behind are equally good. There is no need for the gov and citizens to fear.
UNLESS they think otherwise.
Its good we singaporeans have the means to get a life and career overseas or even a home. Only GCT try to use the word "quitters" to gain some publicity foothold here. he just try to make those here feel a little better. i am sure in his family circle sure got some stay on and so go for greener pasture or new jobs.
which is better , hold back or let go? -
This country is not run by economists but by scholars who are too theoretical and arrogant. They are also too well-paid that they developed the ability to 'play safe' and avoid taking risks so that they can keep their jobs and money.Originally posted by urbanomad:The country is run by economists. They are excellent in managing $$$ and reading balance sheet. Beyond that, -
I hear many local also bought house in JB, Malaysia. Some also stayed there to take advantage of the lower cost of living. There is a newspaper advertisement for local to invest $250,000 ringgit n aOriginally posted by kilua:My brother and his girlfriend are planning to migrate to australia in 1-2 years time. As a young Singaporean, i find it sad to see so many Singaporeans in 20s-30s who are thinking to migrate. The only reason my brother wants to retain Singapore Citizenship is because of the low tax rates so he is trying to work something out.
The goverment must be secretly happy with the replacements. They do not complain about Singapore. These replacements are too glad to have the Singapore Citizenship to complain. In return they can get million dollar salaries without anyone to question them. These new citizens will not bother to question the goverment on why OTC was denied the books of the reserves, or why GIC traders that are caught for insider trading are let off lightly because they are busy planning to make their exit. Its a win win situation!
Malaysian govt can give a PR to Singaporean. -
huh?? sure bo? drop till 250K only now?? wah...now only if their police is better... then i confirm will go there to retire..Originally posted by will4:I hear many local also bought house in JB, Malaysia. Some also stayed there to take advantage of the lower cost of living. There is a newspaper advertisement for local to invest $250,000 ringgit n a
Malaysian govt can give a PR to Singaporean.
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Many Sporean go there to buy houses n in KL also. Last time many Malaysian came here to work. Next time not the same already.Originally posted by I-like-flings(m):huh?? sure bo? drop till 250K only now?? wah...now only if their police is better... then i confirm will go there to retire.. -
Let me share with you my story.
I migrated to Australia after completing my postgraduate qualifications here. Prior to that, I had already worked a couple of years in Singapore as well as completed National Service. I tell you this because I can then form the basis for a comparison between the two countries.
First and foremost, tax. Yes, tax in Australia is horrendous and it is always the first thing that people notice when working here. However, by registering your own business and some creative accounting, you can really minimize the amount of tax you pay, all through legal means.
Pay is higher here in Australia, even after tax.
Now, the working environment. I worked in a large corporation in Singapore, where politicking and backstabbing were all too common. Now, I lead a team of software developers and even in a large company the politics are far less than in SG. It's the nature of the people. When you place more emphasis on the quality of life and have a compassionate, open nature, the politics are bound to be less. I have to say that unfortunately, Singaporeans are still very uncultured and selfish lot.
Cost of living. Eating out in Australia is a lot more expensive than Singapore and less variety. The only good points about this is that I am now trimmer and can cook better. Things are improving though. With the influx of Asian immigrants the availability of authentic cuisine is improving.
Housing: This one no fight. I paid $350k for a bungalow with a lawn, my own swimming pool and double garages. In Singapore that amount of money would get me a HDB flat.
Cars: Haha, no fight also. I bought a BMW for only $70k. You can barely get a Corolla in Singapore with that amount of money.
Scenery and quality of life is also better. Endless plains, beautiful beaches, rainforests and canyons, ravines, snow fields. You want it, you've got it. (A lot of eople don't know that the alpine area in Australia is actually larger than the French alps!) People generally leave work at 5pm sharp. No working on Saturdays. Extra pay when you go on leave (leave loading). Need I say more??
On the whole, I never regretted. You will have to get used to certain things, but it's been a beautiful experience. Don't believe the PAPpies when they try to convince you to stay in that claustrophobic red dot. Why, even Mr GCT's beloved daughter is a "quitter"!
Proud to be a quitter! -
pay is still higher for ppl who wrk for others after tax?Originally posted by Weirdo80:Let me share with you my story.
I migrated to Australia after completing my postgraduate qualifications here. Prior to that, I had already worked a couple of years in Singapore as well as completed National Service. I tell you this because I can then form the basis for a comparison between the two countries.
First and foremost, tax. Yes, tax in Australia is horrendous and it is always the first thing that people notice when working here. However, by registering your own business and some creative accounting, you can really minimize the amount of tax you pay, all through legal means.
Pay is higher here in Australia, even after tax.
Now, the working environment. I worked in a large corporation in Singapore, where politicking and backstabbing were all too common. Now, I lead a team of software developers and even in a large company the politics are far less than in SG. It's the nature of the people. When you place more emphasis on the quality of life and have a compassionate, open nature, the politics are bound to be less. I have to say that unfortunately, Singaporeans are still very uncultured and selfish lot.
Cost of living. Eating out in Australia is a lot more expensive than Singapore and less variety. The only good points about this is that I am now trimmer and can cook better. Things are improving though. With the influx of Asian immigrants the availability of authentic cuisine is improving.
Housing: This one no fight. I paid $350k for a bungalow with a lawn, my own swimming pool and double garages. In Singapore that amount of money would get me a HDB flat.
Cars: Haha, no fight also. I bought a BMW for only $70k. You can barely get a Corolla in Singapore.
Scenery and quality of life is also better. Endless plains, beautiful beaches, rainforests and canyons, ravines, snow fields. You want it, you've got it. (People don't know that the alpine area in Australia is actually larger than the French alps!) People generally leave at 5pm sharp. No working on Saturdays. Extra pay when you go on leave (leave loading). Need I say more??
On the whole, I never regretted. You will have to get used to certain things, but it's been a beautiful experience. Don't believe the PAPpies when they try to convince you to stay in that claustrophobic red dot. Why, even Mr GCT's beloved daughter is a "quitter"!
Proud to be a quitter! -
Yes, take home salary is more than what you would get in Singapore. The Aussie dollar is strong now so if you earn AUD and send back money your dollar will go further. Of course it varies by industry but on average that's how it is. It's just that if you want to lower tax even more, register your own business as a sideline and claim business expenses through there as it will reduce your overall taxable income.
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well those that complain that old people have to lift trash bag at food courts or life is too fast here for an educated young graduate maybe you like to suggest how we can earn our living when we don't have any oil or natural resources instead of complaining and complaining non stop.
I seem to remember those old friends and neighbours who left for "greener pastures" in 83 to australia or canada during a bad recession only to realise that the place the went are good only if you are white and I'm not being prejudiced here, and sure you can make it if you willing to work hard taking any job like a bus driver, cleaner or working in macdonalds, jobs that white people don't want. They realise just how difficult it was and many sent their daughters back here to find work or send their sons back to do national service just so to get the citizenship, So what was the point to leave in the first place then?
Those that want to go it's up to you, it's your life, it's your choice but if you have the balls to talk big and want to go in the first place please don't ever come back here begging for work when things turn bad for you over there because you will be competiting for the local jobs with the true sons of this country who didn't cut tail and run. -
go abroad if your skills are truly global.what for go abroad and work at macs.
it's the defeatist attitude of accepting mediocrity that's killing us.