Many Singaporeans migrating....How come???
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worth a fistfight tooOriginally posted by HENG@:hey that is true. the food is well good.
seems like having a nickname like KSJ, is not going to reflect well on his ability to draw supporters.Fellow must be really pissed about not getting any honey for his Geylang money.
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I think sometimes we all need to venture out to see the world
and then we would alsolook back and appreciate what we had
However, we might be enjoying the success in the new land
but also sometimes, its important to remember one's origin and journey
Singapore has a unique culture sometimes, it is unbearable to some, and its alright to others. Perhaps its the place I live or the circle of people around me... But I find it very depressing... cause the quality of the people and how we treat each other, is not up to the "first world" mark ... and its very disappointing. I find singapore is a great place if you are rich and its a hard place when you are poor. -
but some people seem to think u venture out le u are considered outside and u have no right to look back anymore.Originally posted by mistyblue:I think sometimes we all need to venture out to see the world
and then we would alsolook back and appreciate what we had
However, we might be enjoying the success in the new land
but also sometimes, its important to remember one's origin and journey
well looks like i dun need to say anymore. too many people have basically said all that i feel inside. Those supremacists can go on being anal about things. Its ironic that their patriotism is destroying the very country n society they claim to be loyal to. -
No one wants to leave their homeland if they can make a good life
No one who migrates to another country is abandoning one's own country...
Actually its our country who let down and abandoned us
Nothing it forever. So one day these people who migrate might want to come back to Singapore. Things do not stay static. But by being harsh on people who leave and closing the door on them (and calling them quitters), Singapore and the especially the government stand to loose more. This is the very thing that is defeating and the very essence the government do not understand.
Singapore has become a place where its so distant, clinical and cold organization. Its not something a citizen who left the country to develop themselves wants to come back to... we want to come back to a place we can truly call home. -
I guess you're the dickhead that you claimed to be after all. I don't need to draw any supporters, I've made my own stand on this issue unlike you who think that anybody who is against migration is automatically labelled by a defeatist, supremist, a snob or product of PAP brainwashing shows how skewed and prejudiced your thinking is.Originally posted by LazerLordz:worth a fistfight too
seems like having a nickname like KSJ, is not going to reflect well on his ability to draw supporters.Fellow must be really pissed about not getting any honey for his Geylang money.
Name calling and resorting to personal attacks to skirt the issue shows the shallowness of your intelligence and points out the insecure cowards that you really are. -
whatever stirs your fruitcake. Fine I'm not in a very calm mood tonight, I admit i'm flawed.Happy?Originally posted by KumSioJui:I guess you're the dickhead that you claimed to be after all. I don't need to draw any supporters, I've made my own stand on this issue unlike you who think that anybody who is against migration is automatically labelled by a defeatist, supremist, a snob or product of PAP brainwashing shows how skewed and prejudiced your thinking is.
Name calling and resorting to personal attacks to skirt the issue shows the shallowness of your intelligence and points out the insecure cowards that you really are.
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are we supposed to applaud people making stands without considering what stand that is?? Hitler made a stand against Jews. KKK makes a stand against blacks. u make a stand so what? U also automatically consider anyone who migrates a "foreigner" and a "quitter". I suppose calling someone "pussy" is not name calling hor. dunno who say who coward. u suppose u think that makes u very deeply intelligent n secure n brave la. u want to put us at such a low level, can. i dun mind because u will forever be one level below us. why? because u are a hypocrite.Originally posted by KumSioJui:I guess you're the dickhead that you claimed to be after all. I don't need to draw any supporters, I've made my own stand on this issue unlike you who think that anybody who is against migration is automatically labelled by a defeatist, supremist, a snob or product of PAP brainwashing shows how skewed and prejudiced your thinking is.
Name calling and resorting to personal attacks to skirt the issue shows the shallowness of your intelligence and points out the insecure cowards that you really are. -
As much as I love the people and culture in sg, good food is insufficient to keep me in sg, especially when I don't earn enough to eat anything more than hawker centre food.
The world outside sg has many fearful situations, but there are also many opportunities that are not reserved for the elite...
Coming from a guy that eats cup noodles for breakfast, lunch and dinner, trust me, there is nothing left in sg that would prevent me from becoming a quitter. -
labelling me a snob or anal first make you a saint hor, if a person migrates to canada or australia you consider him a canadian, australian or singaporean? If not call foreigner then call wat? btw I don't think you will find the word "quitter" in any of my previous posts I think you c.ocked it up with somebody elses or you assumed too much.Originally posted by HENG@:are we supposed to applaud people making stands without considering what stand that is?? Hitler made a stand against Jews. KKK makes a stand against blacks. u make a stand so what? U also automatically consider anyone who migrates a "foreigner" and a "quitter". I suppose calling someone "pussy" is not name calling hor. dunno who say who coward. u suppose u think that makes u very deeply intelligent n secure n brave la. u want to put us at such a low level, can. i dun mind because u will forever be one level below us. why? because u are a hypocrite.
As for being a hypocrite ... sama sama as the malays say. -
maybe u never head before the term "canadian-singaporean" or other hybrid citizens. i call u snob n anal is stating a fact. u calling ppl pussy is an insult. u can say "coward" but u say "pussy"Originally posted by KumSioJui:labelling me a snob or anal first make you a saint hor, if a person migrates to canada or australia you consider him a canadian, australian or singaporean? If not call foreigner then call wat? btw I don't think you will find the word "quitter" in any of my previous posts I think you c.ocked it up with somebody elses or you assumed too much.
As for being a hypocrite ... sama sama as the malays say.
just becos u dun say "quitter" dun mean u not insinuating. u say "give up" a lot u think we dunno what u trying to say indirectly?
n pls la. ppl say u hypocrite, u want to die die say others hypocrite also? until now i haven't say u shallow IQ or what hor. is u ownself say one when u also guilty of it. That very act is what makes u a hypocrite n not me. u want to say sama sama also can, but no proof, no basis for that, u're only adding one more thing u are guilty of to yrself only. sama sama? if i like u got nothing to say i will also say sama sama. never mind u want to say sama sama, u say loh. u will still be one level lower than everyone else here. -
aey hello you can insult me and call it a fact then I can do the same say is also a fact loh, you come here blast the our system, say this one no good that one no good from your nice little remote corner in UK very safe hor? Now election around the corner can try to influence as many as possible to against hor? If you not hypocrite then u wat? If more people become unhappy and migrate out of singapore how does that improve the system? If more foreign workers come in here to work because people like want to chao because of little little problem how does that improve the system? I say you all 'give up' wrong ah? isn't it stating the fact? you say you unhappy with garmen this or that I also have to go thru it what? Being a commoner salary man I don't get any special treatment. If you say here got no opportunities then how come 800,000 foreigners can find work?Originally posted by HENG@:maybe u never head before the term "canadian-singaporean" or other hybrid citizens. i call u snob n anal is stating a fact. u calling ppl pussy is an insult. u can say "coward" but u say "pussy"
just becos u dun say "quitter" dun mean u not insinuating. u say "give up" a lot u think we dunno what u trying to say indirectly?
n pls la. ppl say u hypocrite, u want to die die say others hypocrite also? until now i haven't say u shallow IQ or what hor. is u ownself say one when u also guilty of it. That very act is what makes u a hypocrite n not me. u want to say sama sama also can, but no proof, no basis for that, u're only adding one more thing u are guilty of to yrself only. sama sama? if i like u got nothing to say i will also say sama sama. never mind u want to say sama sama, u say loh. u will still be one level lower than everyone else here.
Maybe from someone who claim to be one level higher than me you can explain your "theory" how an ex-citizen can continue to contribute tangibly to our system here other than giving "online" forum views what the other side looks like. -
round and round it goes.Originally posted by KumSioJui:aey hello you can insult me and call it a fact then I can do the same say is also a fact loh, you come here blast the our system, say this one no good that one no good from your nice little remote corner in UK very safe hor? Now election around the corner can try to influence as many as possible to against hor? If you not hypocrite then u wat? If more people become unhappy and migrate out of singapore how does that improve the system? If more foreign workers come in here to work because people like want to chao because of little little problem how does that improve the system? I say you all 'give up' wrong ah? isn't it stating the fact? you say you unhappy with garmen this or that I also have to go thru it what? Being a commoner salary man I don't get any special treatment. If you say here got no opportunities then how come 800,000 foreigners can find work?
Maybe from someone who claim to be one level higher than me you can explain your "theory" how an ex-citizen can continue to contribute tangibly to our system here other than giving "online" forum views what the other side looks like. -
u bitter your problem ah. cannot take it u can dun read one. when i was in singapore i already say this no good that no good. u think im not returning to singapore soon ah? every year i still come back, safe what fuck? asking for system change got what to do with make people unhappy? people unhappy is govt make one, u blame us got use ah? go blame yr beloved garmen la u not happy with them u yell at us for fark? u dun want to make them change things, we want to make them change things, then u yell at us for wad? u happy with them, then what u going thru? if u not happy with them, then come here say us got use ah?Originally posted by KumSioJui:aey hello you can insult me and call it a fact then I can do the same say is also a fact loh, you come here blast the our system, say this one no good that one no good from your nice little remote corner in UK very safe hor? Now election around the corner can try to influence as many as possible to against hor? If you not hypocrite then u wat? If more people become unhappy and migrate out of singapore how does that improve the system? If more foreign workers come in here to work because people like want to chao because of little little problem how does that improve the system? I say you all 'give up' wrong ah? isn't it stating the fact? you say you unhappy with garmen this or that I also have to go thru it what? Being a commoner salary man I don't get any special treatment. If you say here got no opportunities then how come 800,000 foreigners can find work?
Maybe from someone who claim to be one level higher than me you can explain your "theory" how an ex-citizen can continue to contribute tangibly to our system here other than giving "online" forum views what the other side looks like.
i never ask ppl migrate hor. i only ask system to improve so that people wun want to migrate. lidat how wun improve the system? u tell me la. since when i tell people they should migrate? i only say if u want to tiam tiam live there, good or bad also dun make noise, then u continue dun make noise. u want to make noise, u go n make some constructive noise. u come n make noise because other people pushing for better things, then u go home sleep la.
as for job, you show me singapore got which job is work for a car company designing racing cars. C&C, Borneo motors this kind of sell car or service car dun count. im talking about proper car design and manufacture. u can show me have, i come back work. dun have u dun come n tok cock to me about abundent job opportunities, n u dun come n say people give up. u got no right to come n say this kind of bullshit just because u want to do something that is available in sg. -
not worth getting an ulcer.Originally posted by HENG@:u bitter your problem ah. cannot take it u can dun read one. when i was in singapore i already say this no good that no good. u think im not returning to singapore soon ah? every year i still come back, safe what fuck? asking for system change got what to do with make people unhappy? people unhappy is govt make one, u blame us got use ah? go blame yr beloved garmen la u not happy with them u yell at us for fark? u dun want to make them change things, we want to make them change things, then u yell at us for wad? u happy with them, then what u going thru? if u not happy with them, then come here say us got use ah?
i never ask ppl migrate hor. i only ask system to improve so that people wun want to migrate. lidat how wun improve the system? u tell me la. since when i tell people they should migrate? i only say if u want to tiam tiam live there, good or bad also dun make noise, then u continue dun make noise. u want to make noise, u go n make some constructive noise. u come n make noise because other people pushing for better things, then u go home sleep la.
as for job, you show me singapore got which job is work for a car company designing racing cars. C&C, Borneo motors this kind of sell car or service car dun count. im talking about proper car design and manufacture. u can show me have, i come back work. dun have u dun come n tok cock to me about abundent job opportunities, n u dun come n say people give up. u got no right to come n say this kind of bullshit just because u want to do something that is available in sg. do more circuits and bleed off the stress valve mate -
Actually, during the early 90s, Civil Engg was known as a dumping ground in NUS among the Engg Faculties. So, no surprise abt Civil engrs' misery.Originally posted by archon1234:When time are good, all the under grad in our university just take up Business studies or Accountacy. When biotech is in the heat, u see all go towards the bio sector. I still have a large pool of friends from Civil Engg were forced to change their job after our property bubble burst in 1999-2000. many are good engineers, some went overseas and found their second spring in China / Vietnam. Those who stayed, are switching to new jobs like finance consultants and insurance agents, tution teachers or school teachers. This add-on to many agonies as they found mismatching expection between their job and their personal goals. As pressure build up, more singaporeans decided to move on to other places for opporunities.
Same goes to IT in 2001, govt was helping retrenched workers to re-train themselves to pick up IT skills. Did these guys find any IT jobs? I dont think so.
Having said that I must admit that govt is trying their best to create jobs. -
I would suggest to everyone who can and have to inclination to leave Singapore and settle overseas to do so. Think about it. Do you really want your kids (if you intend on having any) to be born here? Singapore citizenship has become a curse and a burden.
Having siad that, recognise that it is not easy to rid yourself of bondage. Most developed countries will have immigration controls that far stricter than Singapore's and the job market in many developed countries are very competitive indeed.
This will probably be a shock to many Singaporeans because the employers in Singapore are very unsophisticated. An illustration, when I was 16 I got a job at a large department store in Singapore as a cashier/sales assistant. The selection process consisted of one interview with the recruitment agency. A couple of months ago, I applied for p/t work at a supermarket here (overseas). The selection process consisted of an interview, group discussion and presentation, and somekind of MCQ to test your suitability for the job. This is to stack shelves at a supermarket! They won't even consider allowing you to be a cashier w/o experience and good references!
I've found that the selection process outlined above is the absolute minimum bar a few exceptions (eg cleaner positions). -
Dear lwflee,Originally posted by lwflee:I would suggest to everyone who can and have to inclination to leave Singapore and settle overseas to do so. Think about it. Do you really want your kids (if you intend on having any) to be born here? Singapore citizenship has become a curse and a burden.
Having siad that, recognise that it is not easy to rid yourself of bondage. Most developed countries will have immigration controls that far stricter than Singapore's and the job market in many developed countries are very competitive indeed.
This will probably be a shock to many Singaporeans because the employers in Singapore are very unsophisticated. An illustration, when I was 16 I got a job at a large department store in Singapore as a cashier/sales assistant. The selection process consisted of one interview with the recruitment agency. A couple of months ago, I applied for p/t work at a supermarket here (overseas). The selection process consisted of an interview, group discussion and presentation, and somekind of MCQ to test your suitability for the job. This is to stack shelves at a supermarket! They won't even consider allowing you to be a cashier w/o experience and good references!
I've found that the selection process outlined above is the absolute minimum bar a few exceptions (eg cleaner positions).
How true, what you said.
This is probably one reason why, up till now, I haven't a child after marriage.
I know SIngapore is safe and all that, but it's a gruelling lifestyle in meeting with all the tax, increasing costs, and the education system's idiosyncrasies. Not to mention the risk of losing my son in the ARMY during training, and being compensated peanuts. -
Agree totally with two posts above about kids and work. For front line operations jobs in Oz for example, criteria for entry is high, but then again, jobs are seen as professions and skillsets rather than work many would "just settle for". Pay is also commensurate and any work is seen as a positive skill.
In regards to kids, its just a matter of values I suppose. If you feel comfortable with the system whereby a kid grows up in, there, might not be a reason to look elsewhere but we have realised that many new families are disagreeing with the pressures and expectations which are placed on kids. Many seek pastures elsewhere so that their kids can at least lead a reasonable childhood, one which gives them time to really be kids, as well as families to take time out to really be families as well and most importantly, for parents to really be parents.[/quote] -
Originally posted by ShutterBug:Dear lwflee,
How true, what you said.
This is probably one reason why, up till now, I haven't a child after marriage.
I know SIngapore is safe and all that, but it's a gruelling lifestyle in meeting with all the tax, increasing costs, and the education system's idiosyncrasies. Not to mention the risk of losing my son in the ARMY during training, and being compensated peanuts.
Go to the army also kena forced to go SISPEC or OCS n need to serve liability until long. -
before you label someone quitter be careful for you might get sued by the daughter/s of sm goh or yeo chow tong.
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Good question. Singaporeans who work overseas experience things that they can never experience in Singapore as long as the current party is in charge. For eg, the press freedom in Singapore is ranked 140/160 in the world. That suggests a heck lot of things about life in Singapore and maybe that is one reasons along with others that encourages people to migrate out of Singapore. Another reason might be NS, some fathers hated their experience in NS and they would not want to see their sons serving if they can afford to leave... Aferall, if they can afford to leave... I am pretty sure they can raise their sons in an enviroment as good or even better than Singapore.
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The people who actually immigrate are local talents. Local talents are not being recognised for their contribution or potential, despite being the citizens, when they should be at least on par with foreign talents. So much for the "meritocratic" work culture in Singapore.. LOL.. Moreover, foreign countries are willing to pay more for our local talents. I am sure you all remember the PSC bond-breaker incident years ago. What goes unreported that the bond-breakers' compensation fee was paid by American headhunting firms. The hunt for talents is indeed more than ferocious. At least PSC is now smarter - they discourage their scholars to study in America.Originally posted by diggo:The jist of the argument is that those that migrate cannot find an equal opportunity in SGP.. so they choose to go. Equal opportunity can be work, play, political etc etc.
The oterh view is that these are the losers who gave up on SGP...
My take:
Do what is deem fit to get as much grains of rice into your rice bowl becos no govt / political party is going to give a damn if u do not the dough to survive. In this globalized world... no one really give a damn where u r from... onli wat u can bring to the table.
Mr KumSioJui's post demonstrated his frustration with the system in Singapore, yet he still appluases for the system adminstrator (aka gahmen) for fighting for his interest and making Singapore a safe place. A safe place where no Singaporeans will be robbed by theives. If the system administrator fulfill the theives' economic needs, the theives no longer need to rob anybody. However, Singaporeans, being Singaporeans, won't go and rob the ex-theives despite their lack of jobs, and struggling daily to make ends meet. So the people in need won't become theives, and the theives no longer need to be thieves to meet their material needs. Not surprising Singapore is a safe place. The government really did a good job.
BTW, does anybody here actually know the optimum pension rate is 30%? Singapore pension (CPF) is less than half the optimum rate. It is hardly surprising to see old people working at McDonald's - a job used to be done by youngsters. Even old people now must contend with the young for such menial jobs to survive. What quality of life is there if you must work until you die? YES, we have been duped about our CPF right from the beginning.
Moreover, the fact that a Singaporean migrate abroad is not sufficient to label him as a quitter. Even the government recognises this now, with the recent implementation of overseas voting. Although the revised parliamentry act is faulty, it at least in principle acknowledge that Singaporeans abroad are still Singaporeans, not foreigners.
Mr KumSioJui, Singaporeans abroad are not quitters. We know we can't change the Singapore system now. We also acknowledge we don't want to suffer with it. We have the resources and the intellectual capability such that we would be in demand abroad. Our ability to leave for greener pastures is also the result of the meritocratic culture in Singapore. Although you may be envious, I must tell you that foreign countries who take us in are no charity too. We have to work for it, to prove our worth. -
Letter from a reader in Today's online forum page.
Can you blame them for leaving?
From young to old, life here doesn't get easier
Letter from Jimmy Ho Kwok Hoong
I REFER to the letter, "Puzzle of migrating Singaporeans" by Lim Boon Hee (Feb 2). Let us rationally analyse the "quitter" problem from the perspectives of different age groups.
Our educational curriculum deprives us of a proper childhood from a tender age. Judging from the proportion of students wearing spectacles here, it is not difficult to tell they have been overexposed to textbooks. Parents who cannot bear to see their kids live with the need for regimental "mugging" may consider migration.
On the next level, a hopeful graduate, fresh from his victory in the educational system, may be in for a rude shock when he discovers that the job market — with its plentiful supply of foreign talent — is not prepared to pay him enough for a decent lifestyle.
It may be worth mentioning that our definition of the words "foreign talent" has changed from its initial meaning of highly-paid expatriates and cheaper IT staff to include the foreign worker who clears the dustbin. Although these foreigners may be needed to reduce the overall costs of operations in Singapore, have we gone too far in welcoming them by being reluctant to control their impact on local rice bowls?
When setting up a family, most couples will learn that the house they buy will probably cost them a lifelong mortgage.
When a Singaporean reaches 40 years old, he should realise that his shelf life in the workforce is only about 10 years, upon discovering that he is considered "obsolete" at that age — even after having acquired a Masters' degree at 30.
The middle-aged professionals, when they are retrenched, will have to decide whether to "upgrade" themselves — taking up menial jobs despite their immense experience in white-collared posts — or to throw their savings into entrepreneurship, for which the chances of success are slim.
Unemployment fell to a low of 2.5 per cent last quarter. However, wages have yet to recover to the level they were at in the previous cycle. In other words, jobs were created but at lower value added as a whole.
The private sector has been asked not to discriminate based on age when hiring, yet public organisations continue to recruit based on age limits.
Older folks in their "golden years" are also not spared. They are expected to slog for their livelihoods to a ripe old age, while their peers elsewhere happily rely on welfare and healthcare provided free of charge by their governments.
The biggest issue may be the refusal to acknowledge that the problems exist — let alone working on solving them. Given such an environment, is it any wonder that some Singaporeans choose to migrate? As I hear someone saying in a coffeeshop say: "Stayers are people who do not have the means to quit!"
http://www.todayonline.com/articles/99388.asp -
Australia etc may be an affordable place to live.
I just wonder why no one mention anything about
the ridiculous Racism there.
It is afterall, an angmoh country.
Migrate there and be treated as second class citizen??
IMO, its much worse than how some sporeans see those China
migrates here.
Or even worse than Chinese living in Malaysia.
Same for UK.
A damn racist country, from my 2 yr study there.
I just wonder, if it will be like living like a "rat" in these angmoh countries,
with your own rat-hole house and rat communities.
And treated like rats by others. -
Have you made the effort to fit in with their culture? Or do you belong to those who refuse to get out of the Singapore mentality when abroad..Originally posted by NuLife:
Australia etc may be an affordable place to live.
I just wonder why no one mention anything about
the ridiculous Racism there.
It is afterall, an angmoh country.
Migrate there and be treated as second class citizen??
IMO, its much worse than sporeans see those China
migrates to singapore.
Or even worse than Chinese living in Malaysia.
Same for UK.
A damn racist country, from my 2 yr study there.
I just wonder, if it will be like living like a "rat" in these angmoh countries,
with your own rat-hole house and rat communities.
And treated like rats by others.
I've family there for decades and they have faced none of that, and I can tell you that our silent racism and discrimination is worse than OZ.At least they have affirmative action legislation, which over the years have produced quite a true melting pot society.
We?We still have to harp on ethnic self-help.