Many Singaporeans migrating....How come???
-
If you cant take this as a joke.Originally posted by HENG@:excuse me, this is bordering on slander.
who i am does not have anything to do with my childhood. for u to try to win an argument by getting low and dirty like that is just cheap. it shows u obviously have no logic or reason behind your arguments. maybe thats why people seem racist to u. Look at the way u behave
The reality is that they were acting disfavourably towards u because u're just dirty.
If u can't even debate without keeping it non-personal, then don't.
and stop saying i despise those who dun mix with angmoh. i only despise those who don't want to mix, and then blame racism for the way people avoid them. If u dun want to mix, that is fine. When u find the locals avoiding u, that is because u don't want to mix. Why should people be friendly to u when u are not being friendly to them? That sort of simple logic should be easy to understand. To blame all of that on racism alone is what i despise. Clear enough?
And apology from you is very much in order. U said UK is racist, i say i don't think so, and i tell u why other singaporeans might think so, and then u go off and accuse me of being racist, and start personal insults? This is totally uncalled for.
If u want to continue acting low and dirty, then this debate is ended. If u have any reason and logic at all u won't have to resort to cheap tactics like that
How do you expect othes whom u had been name calling/labelling/insulting
to take them as one?? Im sure you got too personal on those infact.
I doing this for the sake of many others.
Alright...I apologise on this.
On second thoughts, it really seemed quite bad.
But i really hope you would do something about your foruming habits.
If anything I did wrong, others please pt out too.
I will accept and learn too.
cheers
to others: apologies for making this thread too out of topic.
shall stop here. -
a joke? no i can't take it as a joke.Originally posted by NuLife:If you cant take this as a joke.
How do you expect othes whom u had been name calling/labelling/insulting
to take them as one?? Im sure you got too personal on those infact.
I doing this for the sake of many others.
Alright...I apologise on this cheap trick
But i really hope you would do something about your foruming habits.
If anything I did wrong, others please pt out too.
I will accept and learn too.
cheers
to others: apologies for making this thread too out of topic.
shall stop here.
and please tell me what i should call racists and sexists and bigots in future. what should i call them? i dunno. i never learnt other terms to refer to them. What should be the terms used for people who discriminate against women, sexuality or race then? Do tell. I looked thru the english dictionary and i can't find any other words to refer to them.
And u still haven't acknowledge that u've mistakenly think that i am accusing those who don't mix of being racist. -
Old habits die hard. You don't even realise it.Originally posted by HENG@:who have i called names here during the debate about whether uk/usa/australians?
and please tell me if people who discriminate against gays are not called bigots, what do we call them? its like saying we can't call people who discriminate against race racists, or we can't call people who discriminate against women sexists. -
no really. tell me how we should refer to people who discriminate against race, sexuality or women then.Originally posted by NuLife:Old habits die hard. You don't even realise it.
tell me the "correct" terms for them.
the world is really getting absurd if people who choose to discriminate get insulted because they don't like the terms applied to people who discriminate. It's like murderers feeling offended for being called murderers. -
The terms are right.Originally posted by HENG@:a joke? no i can't take it as a joke.
and please tell me what i should call racists and sexists and bigots in future. what should i call them? i dunno. i never learnt other terms to refer to them. What should be the terms used for people who discriminate against women, sexuality or race then? Do tell. I looked thru the english dictionary and i can't find any other words to refer to them.
But you had been using such terms on fellow forumites..
labelling forumites as bigots, racist, hypocrites, etc.... Hello?
sometimes simply whoever that disagree with you.
See. Old habits die hard.
You just wanna win every single argument isn't it?
And u still haven't acknowledge that u've mistakenly think that i am accusing those who don't mix of being racist.
Okok u r right. u win. my mistake.
I really have no interest on these anymore. Hia.. -
ok so if these forumnites discriminate against sexuality, i cannot label them bigots, then what do i label them?Originally posted by NuLife:The terms are right.
But you had been using such terms on fellow forumites..
labelling forumites as bigots, racist, hypocrites, etc.... Hello?
sometimes simply whoever that disagree with you.
and of course they disagree with me la. I hold the view that we shouldn't discriminate against others just because they have a different sexuality, they disagree about that. So tell me what do i call them? U mean i can't call a bigot a bigot or a sexist a sexist just because they're fellow forumnites?
hey if they don't want to be called that, then they should stop having an irrational dislike of gay people. -
thats great. u misunderstood and u can still show attitude somemore.Originally posted by NuLife:You just wanna win every single argument isn't it?
Okok u r right. u win. my mistake.
I really have no interest on these anymore. Hia..
well done. why don't we say u win? really. this kind of attitude really win le. -
I know HENG@ personally for many many years. I know HENG@ as a person and this is definitely more substantial than what you can infer about HENG@ from deciphering HENG@'s online comments. Singaporeans in general cannot accept beyond what they perceive as norm. Just because everyone (or most of them) is like that does not invalidate the problem. Instead, it magnifies the problem.Originally posted by NuLife:Hi geodome,
I did that with a purpose.
If you had been reading HENG msgs,
you will realise he had been name calling and labelling
many people in various threads.
Even in this current one, you can turn back few pages and read
for yourself
Nulife, what other labels can you think of?Originally posted by HENG@:and please tell me what i should call racists and sexists and bigots in future. what should i call them? i dunno. i never learnt other terms to refer to them. What should be the terms used for people who discriminate against women, sexuality or race then? Do tell. I looked thru the english dictionary and i can't find any other words to refer to them. -
I am just asking you to note that the angmohs in Singapore are doing the same things that the Asians are doing in UK. Forming cliques or do not mix with locals do not make anybody racist!!Originally posted by HENG@:I read to the bit highlighted in red and i dun need to read anymore. Clearly u have completely not gotten my point, and made up something on your own to tack onto me.
I will say again. I am saying that, ASIANS not mixing with the locals and bunching up amongst their own cliques 1st is what contributes to THEM thinking UK is a racist country. I'm saying if they took the time to mix around more, and did not stick right to their own communities right from the start, they would realise otherwise. They THINK UK is more racist than it actually is, because of what they did. When u're behaving cliquish, people tend to find u harder to approach, and these ASIANS then perceive the locals as being racist.
U clearly lost the plot a long way back in this debate.
There are probably more reasons for the Asians to form cliques for financial reasons, and also not all the asians go to UK armed with powerful knowledge of english!! Besides, UK is more than half the way round the world away from Asia. I understand that because my uncle went to UK for studies and he came from a chinese school here. He took the cheapest flight, Aeroflot via Moscow, to get there. With UK famous for "wild cat" strikes those days, the helps he had came ONLY from the asians there, including Singaporean. There was no way he could mix with the angmoh there. If he were to label "racists" as liberal as you do, UK is racist.
Today, all singaporean speaks english, and are all prepared financially, going to Uk and mix around is no problem. But there are other Asians who are like my uncle. If you don't mix around with them, you won't understand them. You call them racists, they call you racists. I guess you are both right.
When I look at the angmoh here in Asian, they are not students, they are working ppl, mainly, and you think they mix with the locals? far from it. They come here and criticise what we do based on their cultures and standards, that is the reason for being called racists. -
I never knew anybody who knew you until this geodome said so in his post. I only know you from what you post. So it is that part of you that is racist.Originally posted by HENG@:
I AM chinese. so perhaps i am. although people who know me will tell u otherwise. i don't mind taking potshots at every race tho, whether white, black, oriental, asian or otherwise. sometimes people need to lighten up about their race -
no it doesn't. I never said that. u are not reading againOriginally posted by sgdiehard:I am just asking you to note that the angmohs in Singapore are doing the same things that the Asians are doing in UK. Forming cliques or do not mix with locals do not make anybody racist!!
I said they can choose not to mix, but when they do that and make themselves less approachable, don't accuse others of being racist. The truth is if they appear cliquish to people, people won't find them easy to approach. So there are other reasons why people treat them the way they're treated. They should stop whining and think if its really racism they're being subjected to, or are they just being unfriendly to the locals.
sure. i said and i say again, everyone is allowed to choose not to mix. but that is their own bloody choice, they better remember that. Its this choice that makes them appear unfriendly to people. How u expect people to react to that? Don't anyhow blame racism. Its not racism. It's just how MOST people react to unfriendly people.Originally posted by sgdiehard:There are probably more reasons for the Asians to form cliques for financial reasons, and also not all the asians go to UK armed with powerful knowledge of english!! Besides, UK is more than half the way round the world away from Asia. I understand that because my uncle went to UK for studies and he came from a chinese school here. He took the cheapest flight, Aeroflot via Moscow, to get there. With UK famous for "wild cat" strikes those days, the helps he had came ONLY from the asians there, including Singaporean. There was no way he could mix with the angmoh there. If he were to label "racists" as liberal as you do, UK is racist.
And if he were to label racist as liberally as me, the hell UK is racist. If he were to be as "liberal" about the term racist as me, hardly anywhere would be racist. on the other hand, if he were to label racists as liberally as YOU, not just UK, every damned country on earth would be racist.
afterall, how much more liberal can u get than someone who keeps accusing me of being racist just because i think people shouldn't be so quick to blame racism for problems of their own doing?
i guess nobody is right, but u're doubly wrong. because i don't call them racist, and I am certainly not racist.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Today, all singaporean speaks english, and are all prepared financially, going to Uk and mix around is no problem. But there are other Asians who are like my uncle. If you don't mix around with them, you won't understand them. You call them racists, they call you racists. I guess you are both right.
Sure but how many ang moh u know accuse us of being racist just because they're cliquish?Originally posted by sgdiehard:When I look at the angmoh here in Asian, they are not students, they are working ppl, mainly, and you think they mix with the locals? far from it. They come here and criticise what we do based on their cultures and standards, that is the reason for being called racists.
Like I said a thousand times which u just don't seem to get, its up to everyone to be cliquish or not. That choice is open to EVERYONE. But if someone WANTS to be cliquish, for WHATEVER reason, then if people think they're unfriendly and avoid befriending them, its because they appear UNFRIENDLY, its got NOTHING to do with their race. So before they want to accuse people of being racist, think if they THEMSELVES are making people avoid them for OTHER REASONS.
And now for the killer blow to your argument:
Its quite funny that people are selectively racist and befriend some asians while avoiding others isn't it? Thats the BIG GAPPING FLAW in whatever logic u have. Racism is an irrational dislike of anyone of a certain race. If someone is racist against say, chinese people, it doesn't matter if i speak fluent english or not, or whether i fit in well or not. they will still be nasty to me. So whats the reason SOME asians aren't treated favourably in UK? well i've already said it over and over again, its too bad if u still cannot get it. Smart people here like Ged n Lazerlordz can definately understand what I'm saying -
well unfortunately there is no part of me thats racist. but of course, u don't care do u? u just WANT to insist im racist so u can win your argument. too bad i've laid the killer blow to it. So u can go on calling me racist all u want. The more u call, the more you discredit yourself.Originally posted by sgdiehard:I never knew anybody who knew you until this geodome said so in his post. I only know you from what you post. So it is that part of you that is racist. -
You don't want me to dig out those exact wordsOriginally posted by geodome:
I know HENG@ personally for many many years. I know HENG@ as a person and this is definitely more substantial than what you can infer about HENG@ from deciphering HENG@'s online comments. Singaporeans in general cannot accept beyond what they perceive as norm. Just because everyone (or most of them) is like that does not invalidate the problem. Instead, it magnifies the problem.
[/b][/quote]
Hi geodome,
Does that really matter?
All i/we know is that "she" had been rather rude
online all the while, without showing much respect
for others and their views or even disagreement sometimes.
Im sure HENG is not that bad a person, maybe nice
in other sense. (and most every1 else here)
But sometimes, we shld watched our behaviour and words,
esp when talking to unknown individuals online.
I had already apologised on going overboard.
[quote]Originally posted by geodome:Nulife, what other labels can you think of?
HENG had used on others, don't you?
I dun wish to go into that.
It will only make things uglier for your friend, HENG.
Neverthless, im sure HENG is fortunate to have a friend
like you.
cheers
-
no no no. i dun wanna win. you win. pls.Originally posted by HENG@:thats great. u misunderstood and u can still show attitude somemore.
well done. why don't we say u win? really. this kind of attitude really win le. -
No one except you it seems.Originally posted by HENG@:Sure but how many ang moh u know accuse us of being racist just because they're cliquish?
It also seemed more like you are the one who didn't read properly.
But then im definitely wrong and you are still right
and you win again. -
oh dear, it must be because either
a)singapore is a developed country, like salman says
b) singapore is the most free country on earth, like salman would have us believe.
that's why poor singaporeans, who don't like either freedom or prosperity is moving towards other "less developed and less prosperous "countries. this just shows singapore is most developed country in world. -
Guys, without digging exact news,
i did a quick search on bbc news website
and to my surprise, theres alot more racsim news/crimes in uk
than one would expect:
Search Results (202 pages!!!) :
http://newssearch.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?go.x=&q=racism&tab=news&go.y=&start=1&scope=newsifs&go=go
Though its a general search results,
most of the news are from BBC UK locally.
I feel these "non-silent" racism are enough to show something,
without even going into perhaps countless "silent" types or unreported incidents.
Im sure more will argue this doesnt mean anything much.
Tell me what means something then???
going into detail research is really quite meaningless,
at least to me.
ps : pls excuse from any exact misinterpretations.
if some1 have time to spare, he could help read/select them
in more detail and share more of the urls here
cheers
Edited: "red part moved to another post below" -
Do you think the news media in Singapore will report local racist incidents?Originally posted by NuLife:
Guys, without digging exact news,
i did a quick search on bbc news website
and to my surprise, theres alot more racsim news/crimes in uk
than one would expect:
-
Hello...please read again:Originally posted by geodome:Do you think the news media in Singapore will report local racist incidents?
"There were 423 incidents in Plymouth in 2005"
->One small city/town alone.
There must be even more unreported cases and silent cases.
Im sure all Singapore cases, reported/unreported add together
can't beat that.
I seriously feel those who think UK/English is not racist
must be mislead or blinded by some factors.
Decide for yourself. -
here's some of the bbc racism news in uk nevertheless:
Racist crimes up 33% in two years(1 February 2006):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/4670418.stm
quoted : There were 423 incidents in Plymouth in 2005,
up from 308 incidents reported to police in 2003.
One city/town alone!!!!
Tyres slashed in racist vandalism (5 January 2006):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4583608.stm
Two held over 'racist stabbing' (7 January 2006):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/4590504.stm
Teenager racially abused on bus(5 January 2006)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4583608.stm
Source: BBC 2006 JANUARY/FEBRUARY alone
For more :
Search Results (202 pages!!! cut from previous above)
http://newssearch.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?go.y=&start=3&q=racism&go.x=&tab=news&go=go&scope=newsifs
or do a search on on "news.bbc.co.uk" on "racism" -
I think it would make more sense to compare Singapore to a city/town in the UK that has similar demographic distribution, and wealth per person. Maybe London..Originally posted by NuLife:"There were 423 incidents in Plymouth in 2005"
->One small city/town alone.
There must be even more unreported cases and silent cases.
Im sure all Singapore cases, reported/unreported add together
can't beat that. -
cultural differences too great ... better compare with a nearer city like hong kong with similar cultural and economic backgrounds.Originally posted by geodome:I think it would make more sense to compare Singapore to a city/town in the UK that has similar demographic distribution, and wealth per person. Maybe London.. -
The debate was on whether UK is racist, isn't it?Originally posted by geodome:I think it would make more sense to compare Singapore to a city/town in the UK that has similar demographic distribution, and wealth per person. Maybe London..
FYI, search result list even included more well-known
cities like Manchester etc,
and I believe London can't be spared too much either.
One can go on and on in saying only certain part of London
is like that perhaps, the debate was on UK/English people
and UK isn't that large a country really.
Though, you have a point, like i said before,
those who had only been to London, a more cosmo city,
do not know the real UK.
Infact, FYI, the English is perhaps known to be the most snobbish,
if not racist people in Europe.
I just hope many people here can see the 'light',
and not mislead by blindless "west/english is always right" mentality.
On a different note, I feel many are mislead also because of the
over-commercialised popular English Soccer League,
creating a wave of UK fans. -
The debate was on whether UK is a racist country, not hongkong.Originally posted by snow leopard:cultural differences too great ... better compare with a nearer city like hong kong with similar cultural and economic backgrounds.
In Sg, one blogger remark is enough to hog Headlines.
Need we say more?
Somehow, even though there are things we dislike about the Sg,
we shld also appreciate Sg in other sense. -
What kind off thing should be appreciated about?Originally posted by NuLife:The debate was on whether UK is a racist country, not hongkong.
In Sg, one blogger remark is enough to hog Headlines.
Need we say more?
Somehow, even though there are things we dislike about the Sg,
we shld also appreciate Sg in other sense.