The Future of Taiwan
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Frankly, Even If taiwan went Independent. What to stop the US from placing military bases there... That whole situation was because of US meddling... the obscurity of ownership.. US arms.. and what if US insist on invoking the SFPT ? You mean China will just sit on it ? As if Japan is not enough, and now potentially having the seventh fleet and bases at it's door steps. It will never happen.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Well I hope to see a Taiwan that is independant, because if someone comes to your village and tells you that after 40 years of not being around, some landlord whome you've never seen, wants to kick you out of a land he never really owned, i think that's worst.
I will never see Taiwan as a province of China, and so do many people.Problem is, how do we translate this and let the Chinese know.We do not want a Taiwan that is a pawn either, what would be best would be two prosperous Chinese states, independant and yet in a treaty of friendship.You do not force a state to come back based on your own domestic policy assumption, because to Taiwan it's an external policy decision if they decide to return to China.
Taiwan is already the victor, because in any declaration of independance ,China will be the aggressor.
And about the village thingy, China has always claimed ownership of Taiwan, and Vice visa. Till I think in 1971. Getting Taiwan back is a China pride thing. Wouldn't you want your property back ?
I know... I know what's you point is. But it's also about national security of China too. -
you do not support china to be unity ?why? many malaysian chinese support it ? why you are so different?
taiwan is a province of china ,this wil not be changed for ever.i love taiwan too much ,i do not hope it become another country.
but now unity is not good .i have to admit .china should change ,change its politic ,improve ppl's income .
taiwan ,98% is han chinese ppl .we are one family .
ben shi tong gen sheng ,xiang jian he tai ji -
Taiwan, historically is part of China, that's not going to change. However, i feel that taiwan and China's way of governing is like heaven and earth, two vastly different systems. The crap about HK retaining its system and way of governing is BS, because u can see that China constantly interferes in its politcial system. And Taiwan, which is rated highly in terms of democracy, is more vocal when it comes to voicing out their displeasure, if any. How are they going to incoporate Taiwan into China?
China won't do anything before 2008, because the Olympic Games is going to keep them busy for a while, but after 2008, who knows? The US may always say that they will come to Taiwan aid, but after Iraq, Afghanistan, and the never-ending war on terror, who can really say that now? The US public will NEVER support another war if the above mentioned wars are not settled.
Chen Shui-bian is serving as an deterrant to China. If KMT comes to power, KMT will definitely seek closer ties with China, and in the process, unify with the motherland. The taiwanese may want to avoid War with china, but the sentiment there is that they never see themselves as part of China. So, they will most probably not vote for anyone who wants Taiwan to go back to China's arms. -
what has malaysian chinese got to do with us?? the education and upbringing of malaysian chinese and singaporean chinese are very different so are our our views on China.Originally posted by shenjingbing:you do not support china to be unity ?why? many malaysian chinese support it ? why you are so different? ...
taiwan ,98% is han chinese ppl .we are one family .
Being in one family does not necessarily mean you belong to the same country.
Singapore is predominantly Han chinese, but we are not in the same country, and the family link is also very thin and stretched.Originally posted by shenjingbing:
Bear this in mind, your quotation in red applies to the RED communist China.
[b]ben shi tong gen sheng ,xiang jian he tai ji[/b]
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The future of Taiwan is already closely tightly linked to mainland China, economically and politically. This is a fact to be recognised.
The future of Taiwan is bleak if taiwanese voters continue to be manupilated by the politicians. This is a fact we cannot change.
The future of Taiwan will be decided by the politicians in beijing if they decide unilaterally declare independence. The is the fear of the countries in East Asia.
The future of Taiwan is at the mercy of america and the japanese. Hopefully they do not instigate or interfere in taiwan's relationship with china. This is wish of all Chinese.
The future of Taiwan as ROC remains bright as the true representation of Chinese culture, especially music. This has brought and will continue to bring happiness and joys to Chinese round the world.
The future of Taiwan stretches beyong the island of Taiwan, with most Taiwanese having their families in China, Canada, USA, Singapore, Australia....The spirit of ROC lives on even if the island is completely destroyed.
This is the pride of all Chinese.
Only time can tell what is the true future of Taiwan.
Who are we to decide what the future of Taiwan should be??? -
do not worry , the war will never happen. the fuse of war is offcially claim of independence. now it is the most chance for taiwan to claim independence but they don't and is not going to either. as mainland becomes more powerful, the chance for taiwain to claim independence is even lower. that is why I said the war will never take place. the statue quo will keep on for a long time,until one day china is more powerful than US and Janpan. at that time, china will reedit the "anti-recession law", use Taiwan as an good excuse to claim war with Janpan and US. at last china will weaken Jananese militarial power and drive US militarial power from Asia
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Originally posted by shenjingbing:
there is always Yi Guo Liang Zhi policy from China...two policy in one country like what HK is doing now
you do not support china to be unity ?why? many malaysian chinese support it ? why you are so different?
taiwan is a province of china ,this wil not be changed for ever.i love taiwan too much ,i do not hope it become another country.
but now unity is not good .i have to admit .china should change ,change its politic ,improve ppl's income .
taiwan ,98% is han chinese ppl .we are one family .
[b]ben shi tong gen sheng ,xiang jian he tai ji[/b]
dun worry -
That's precisely why now-ish is the time for Taiwan to claim independence. Might be too late otherwise! I would advise them to wait a while though...The US do not have enough soldiers around as it is now.Originally posted by lovespecter:do not worry , the war will never happen. the fuse of war is offcially claim of independence. now it is the most chance for taiwan to claim independence but they don't and is not going to either. as mainland becomes more powerful, the chance for taiwain to claim independence is even lower. that is why I said the war will never take place. the statue quo will keep on for a long time,until one day china is more powerful than US and Janpan. at that time, china will reedit the "anti-recession law", use Taiwan as an good excuse to claim war with Janpan and US. at last china will weaken Jananese militarial power and drive US militarial power from Asia -
The West had bullied China for years and would have conquered China if not for its size and resilience. Russia and Japan too had time and again attempted to take over China.
China had managed to regain its lost territories e.g. Hong Kong and Macau and is peacefully trying to regain Taiwan. Against all the travails, it had triumphed over dark forces and kept its people' allegiance and stayed undivided as a nation.
The world can see that China has not been a threat and would no doubt appreciate that China has done nothing wrong against other people and has only tried to stay united and proud as a nation despite all hostilities. -
Originally posted by nanren4ever:
Yes, You are right HK did not retain their way of governing.. Because The british did not give them democracy. The Governor and half of the council are nominated by the British. In contrast, under China the whole council are elected. China has the right to interfer, because HK is not going independence. Why now that HK is not under Colonial rule and suddenly all the Hoha are democracy.
Taiwan, historically is part of China, that's not going to change. However, i feel that taiwan and China's way of governing is like heaven and earth, two vastly different systems. [b]The crap about HK retaining its system and way of governing is BS, because u can see that China constantly interferes in its politcial system. And Taiwan, which is rated highly in terms of democracy, is more vocal when it comes to voicing out their displeasure, if any. How are they going to incoporate Taiwan into China? [/b]
Like LKY once quoted " The british certainly did not give me democracy, they give us only when the leave". -
Taiwan will invade China and take over Beijjing within 3 days of a top secret pre-emptive assault.
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nonsense...Originally posted by Ito_^:Taiwan will invade China and take over Beijjing within 3 days of a top secret pre-emptive assault. -
and pray tell, where is the direct election policy now?All hogwash.Originally posted by huaqing:there is always Yi Guo Liang Zhi policy from China...two policy in one country like what HK is doing now
dun worry
Taiwan's future should be decided by Taiwanese referendum.It's not up to China, United States or even Asia.
If the Taiwanese people have chosen to be free, any hostilities should be deemed as a an act of war against a sovereign state.That's when the litmus test for the Security Council should arise, something to determine if it will remain relevant, or become a lame duck.
The preamble to the first Summit of the General Assembly has included a new clause, one which many has not realised.It's called the Responsibility to Protect.
And please, you PRC dudes, don't waste your breath trying to apply your northern theories to our island.We are Malay Archipelago and ASEAN, not your cultural offshoot. -
Taiwan is a part of China and cannot be separated from the mainland.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Let Taiwan be free and none of this bullshit will happen.
The reason why Chen SHui Bian now want independence is mainly due to the Japanese occupation in Taiwan from 1895 to 1945 when the Japanese used propaganda to influence the people of Taiwan that they are second class citizens of Japan, and the people of Taiwan were made to wear Japanese custumes and no Chinese custumes were allowed to wear. Only Japanese was taught and learning their mother tongue Chinese was prohibited. Once discovered, death.
The Japanese occupation had a great impact on Taiwan until today. The former "president" Li Deng Hui even said that he himself is a Japanese..what rubbish...
As some of you guys said that China needed to be more democratic, I have to tell you something. After the cultural revolution, China's economy is damn poor and the country has been struggling with building up its economy for years. Now even though the people of China can live carefree lives, and the economy is ok, but there are still people who wanted democracy. Which i disagree. The communist party is not the communist party we know in the past. It is different now. Maybe my post on my blog titled "Communism in China" explains some of it:
Communism in China
From Huaqing's Blog (http://mahuaqing.blogspot.com)
As a lot of you know, China has been under communism rule since 1 October 1949. Over the years, the communists here have undergone a lot of changes. Nowadays, i don't find them like communist anymore.
Over the years, communism failed in many countries, such as Russia. However, nowadays countries like China and North Korea still claim to be under communism rule. The communists in these two countries are very different.
In North Korea, the communists there did not make North Korea a rich country. In fact, after the Korean war has ended for more than a century, North Korea's economy only grew a little. The people there has not enough food to eat. As a result, the nation has to rely on other countries to supply her with food and other resources.
In Malaya, communists created waves of unrest and disorder and people in Malaya did not like the communists. At first the Malayan Communist Party or MCP tried to overthrow the Brithish colonial rule, but to no success. Singapore eventually gained full self government with people like Lee Kuan Yew. Now MCP is very weak and is only present in Malaya. Its relations with the Chinese Communists Party is very bad also. It is very clear that the Chinese Communists Party did not agree with the Malayan Communists Party on creating social disorder in Singapore.
Since 1840, China has been under half-colonial and half-imperial rule under Qing Dynasty until 1911, when the Xin Hai Revolution occured, which overthrew the Qing Dynasty. Since 1840, Western powers defeated China and occupied many areas. The English sold opium to China, and made a lot of people addicted to it. The First Opium War opened the door of China, and after that many other western powers also came to China to occupy her land and natural resources.
The 1911 Xin Hai Revolution overthrew the corrupt Qing dynasty imperial government, and Sun Yat Sun set up The Nationalists Pary, also known as Kuomintang. He hoped to change China, but China was still in danger. In 1931, the Japanese occupied The Northeast Provinces or Manchuria of China, Heilongjiang, Jilin and Liaonin. The Japanese furthered its expansion in 1937 when it started to invade other parts of China. When the war ended in 1945, the Nationalists started a war against the communists. So the two parties fought against each other.
The communist has long wanted to overthrow the Nationalists led by Chiang Kai Shek, because it was also corrupted, which the communists succeeded. In 1949, the Nationalists were forced to leave Mainland China and fled to Taiwan. This situation caused there to be two governments in China nowadays, one in Mainland and another in Taiwan.
In 1949, there is this saying in China that "Without The Communists Pary, There is no a New China", which is quite true. If the communist did not overthrow the Nationalists, then i cannot imagine what China will be like nowadays...probably still very poor.
After the communists took over, the people of China had their lives improved. Over the years, the communists commited some mistakes to cause economy downturn in China too, eg. The Great March in the 1950s, and the Cultural Revolutions in the 1960-70s.
In 1979, ex-Chinese president Deng Xiao Ping became the president of the nation and the Cultural Revolution finally came to an end. China's economy began to revive. After 20 over years, when we take a look at the economy of China, we find it has grown a lot and China became richer. None other communists state has ever achieved this.
One difference between China and other communists nations is that, China allows captalism to be present despite communists oppose captalists. Therefore, i say that the communists nowadays are not like communist anymore.
The communists in China are more interested in economy than communism. This is really very different from North Korea. Maybe that is why North Korea remained so poor after over half a century of nation building.
I wonder what will happen if the political system in China changes again. The country may be in chaos. Therefore i think the current system is good enough, as it is trying to change slowly. Instead of wanting democracy, we should accept the current political system.
By the way the current political system is democratic too. The National Congress(Members of the Parliament in Chinese Terms) is a meeting held every few years and the representatives from different parts of China were elected. Thus they represent the people. I don't see why it is not democratic.
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Please read my previous post. Thank you.Originally posted by LazerLordz:and pray tell, where is the direct election policy now?All hogwash. -
The point is, most of them do not want independence...praise God!Originally posted by LazerLordz:Taiwan's future should be decided by Taiwanese referendum.It's not up to China, United States or even Asia. -
They want to keep the status quo.Do you see them clamouring to return to China either?Originally posted by huaqing:The point is, most of them do not want independence...praise God!
Taiwan is the only other Chinese majority republic with a representative democracy.It's not something to be sneezed at.
I'm curious about one thing, how do the politicians in China view Singapore?By forgetting that we are a multi-racial nation and thinking we are Chinese by thought and attitudes?If that is so, they can jolly well forget about influencing our attitudes. -
ask the politicians lor...how do i knowOriginally posted by LazerLordz:They want to keep the status quo.Do you see them clamouring to return to China either?
Taiwan is the only other Chinese majority republic with a representative democracy.It's not something to be sneezed at.
I'm curious about one thing, how do the politicians in China view Singapore?By forgetting that we are a multi-racial nation and thinking we are Chinese by thought and attitudes?If that is so, they can jolly well forget about influencing our attitudes.
why would they want to influence your attitude? -
It's your nation man..you should know.Originally posted by huaqing:ask the politicians lor...how do i know
why would they want to influence your attitude? -
China imposing its will on Taiwan is nonsense to me too. If Taiwan wants to remain as it is, let it be.Originally posted by huaqing:nonsense... -
as long as Taiwan does not declare independence China wont sae anything and war will not break out.Originally posted by Ito_^:China imposing its will on Taiwan is nonsense to me too. If Taiwan wants to remain as it is, let it be. -
By drafting the Taiwan Relations Act, means US will always try to have a foothold in Taiwan by all means possible. Once Taiwan is independent, what is there to stop this ? Can you garrantee it will not ? China and Taiwan is technically already in the state of civil war.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Taiwan's future should be decided by Taiwanese referendum.It's not up to China, United States or even Asia.
If the Taiwanese people have chosen to be free, any hostilities should be deemed as a an act of war against a sovereign state.That's when the litmus test for the Security Council should arise, something to determine if it will remain relevant, or become a lame duck..And please, you PRC dudes, don't waste your breath trying to apply your northern theories to our island.We are Malay Archipelago and ASEAN, not your cultural offshoot
When did Singapore got into the picture ? -
Correction..this is referring to the bold red words. not huaqing's.Originally posted by MobyDog:When did Singapore got into the picture ? -
ask you guys, if Shanghai wants to be independent from China. what do you think?
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confused...