Is en masse wearing of a particular shirt unlawful?
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i remember there was one forumite who was selling a nazi uniform and he claim he wore it and walk ard Orchard RoadOriginally posted by iveco:How about one that has Jozef Stalin's photo emblazoned on it?
nazism or whatever can be practiced here...but only privatly and in small quantity...large quantity will be deem illegal like the PRC Falungong or someting like tat... -
Was the Citizen proven right ?Originally posted by robertteh:Wong Kan Seng, has finally admitted and apologized on TV tonight that the police might have over-reacted in cautioning the school girls on selling of white elephant T-shirts.
Ha ha citizens have once again proven that their criticisms of wrongful government actions and policies have been justified. This time despite government or police very stubborn actions against the white elephant placards and white elephant T-shirts the people did not give way and could prove their views right again.
Government has simply over-reacted on many issues affecting people's freedoms of choice and creativity etc including such things like peaceful and silent protests over wrongful acts in not opening the Buangkok MRT station and its many draconians anti-community policies.
It is proven again and again that despite the NKF types of wrongs the government is still very slow and not willing to change to keep up with the time.
In the same way the government has been overreacting on people's free and creative community participation and expressions over the nets and blogs.
Let this incident of overreacting on the display of white-elephant placards show to the government the citizens are not stupid and will not be cowered into submissions just because of stupidity or stubbornness of our scholars.
It is a case of NKF stubborn refusal to admit past mistakes and problems and a case of people putting up a contest of ideas with the government finally showing it has no defence over many of its past tough policies.
One by one, perhaps citizens will probably have to contest with the government who is right and who is wrong on so many policies and issues affecting political freedoms of choice, freedoms of expressions and participations in social and community affairs of the state.
Did the Government give way ?
Hardly.
The ELECTION is just around the corner, no harm admitting that the Police was over-reacting.
Then again, the Police was under the wing of the Home Affairs Ministry - and WKS is still the Minister of Home Affairs, unless he believe that he is speaking as the Deputy Prime Minister.
Some " Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde " character at play here. -
It is interesting to note the inconsistencies between WKS's interview and the official police response to this matter through in the ST forum a few days back.Originally posted by Atobe:Was the Citizen proven right ?
Did the Government give way ?
Hardly.
The ELECTION is just around the corner, no harm admitting that the Police was over-reacting.
Then again, the Police was under the wing of the Home Affairs Ministry - and WKS is still the Minister of Home Affairs, unless he believe that he is speaking as the Deputy Prime Minister.
Some " Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde " character at play here.
WKS openly admitted that the action was rather harsh and could have been handled better, adding the boys in blue will 'learn' from this episode.
WKS went on to 'award full marks' for the police administration for processing the permit, when he later admitted that it may have been unnecessary in the first place, since the overall message had no political ring about it.
The media statement from their police commissioner circled the bush, made a vague reference to a 'slight overreaction' by the police but stopped short of an apology, nor did they imply that they had done any WRONG, only that they may have been rather high handed in the matter.
Either police have fallen into the same infallible trap as our ruling party in which they can 'DO NO WRONG', else WKS is just trying to sugar coat their response with added sweeteners. -
Yes, in NKF, citizens have collectively expressed their displeasure with serious problems of accountability and transparency.Originally posted by Atobe:Was the Citizen proven right ?
Did the Government give way ?
Hardly.
The ELECTION is just around the corner, no harm admitting that the Police was over-reacting.
Then again, the Police was under the wing of the Home Affairs Ministry - and WKS is still the Minister of Home Affairs, unless he believe that he is speaking as the Deputy Prime Minister.
Some " Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde " character at play here.
Whether citizens are right or the government will admit their collective views and opinions about wrong doings is another matter.
The important thing is citizens are able to hold certain collective view on certain matters and they are not easily hoodwinked to accept hypocrisy or propaganda. This is at least better than the past when they accepted everything blindly what the government said and were taken for granted.
In the Buangkok case, citizens have again spoken up. Their white elephant protest is a good start. The RGS school girls are not accepting the Buangkok white elephant blandly.
Whether white elephant placards or T-shirt shows the people are maturing in their political consciousness, I think time will tell but they have made a start - a slow and tentative start. I hope this trend of questioning the authority will continue and become part of the culture and social sphere of the masses. If they don't speak up and question, there will be more persistent autocracy and harsh anti-people political apathy and all the wrong wrong doings resulting in their present struggles with high costs and unemployments.
When problems occur the government is not going to admit them like the NKF and they will have to fight for their own cause and be heard before problems are admitted and solved.
People must develop their capacity to be vibrant and objective and collective and by being together as demonstrated in forums they will be a force to reckon with and be respected not being taken for granted or brainwashed by propagandas and election goodies.
My two cents' worth. -
This is a good step forward.We have to keep common sense alive.
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Another very, very interesting observation from the StraitsTimes is that WKS actually compared the incident with the issue raised by XiaXue about molesters using foam spray to prey on their victims during festive holidays;
Does the PAP/Police/MHA actually view the wearing of "elephant" T-Shirts a serious criminal act ?? Or are they trivalizing the use of foam spray to prey on molesters ??
I think it is ridiculous that WKS actually compare the two incidents together. The government should take the molesters' case seriously because it is a criminal act; but the T-Shirts??? I shock and appalled!!
Another example of idiotic PAP minister's remark and poor use of analogy. -
their classic tactic of interpretation-at-will(within the law) is falling apart.Originally posted by anonymouscoward:Another very, very interesting observation from the StraitsTimes is that WKS actually compared the incident with the issue raised by XiaXue about molesters using foam spray to prey on their victims during festive holidays;
Does the PAP/Police/MHA actually view the wearing of "elephant" T-Shirts a serious criminal act ?? Or are they trivalizing the use of foam spray to prey on molesters ??
I think it is ridiculous that WKS actually compare the two incidents together. The government should take the molesters' case seriously because it is a criminal act; but the T-Shirts??? I shock and appalled!!
Another example of idiotic PAP minister's remark and poor use of analogy. -
Molestation is not an issue for the coming elections.Originally posted by anonymouscoward:Another very, very interesting observation from the StraitsTimes is that WKS actually compared the incident with the issue raised by XiaXue about molesters using foam spray to prey on their victims during festive holidays;
Does the PAP/Police/MHA actually view the wearing of "elephant" T-Shirts a serious criminal act ?? Or are they trivalizing the use of foam spray to prey on molesters ??
I think it is ridiculous that WKS actually compare the two incidents together. The government should take the molesters' case seriously because it is a criminal act; but the T-Shirts??? I shock and appalled!!
Another example of idiotic PAP minister's remark and poor use of analogy.
White elephants are.
Have to prioritize mah. -
Just went through the main headlines of Today.
My immediate puzzlement: Why did TODAY find it necessary to re-publish the same article of WKS's interview regarding the white elephant t-shirts (with some additional comments from an MP Charles Chong) again in today's TODAY? Wasn't it thoroughly covered over in the weekend papers? Furthermore, it was the exact same comments.
Is this publication designed to drive home the tattered message to locals, the claim that our boys in blue DID THE RIGHT THING, however high-handed it may have been?
Does that mean the ruling party is not entirely convinced that Singaporeans were taken in by the sugar coatings from deputy PM Wong Kan Seng? That the police OVERREACTED and INSISTED ON PERMITS when NONE WERE needed?
Why praise them on speedy processing of permits when in the first place, NONE WERE REQUIRED? Trying to divert attention from the big picture and sweeping the 'big skeletons' under the carpet perhaps?
There also seems to be an unnerving habit of 'PARROT' MPs appearing in the aftermath, conveniently echoing WKS's remarks to cement those same comments. -
Which makes you wonder if the MPs in Parliament are there to act as the voice of the general populace or just to act as the government's mouthpiece to appease and explain the rationale of questionable policies.Originally posted by BillyBong:Just went through the main headlines of Today.
My immediate puzzlement: Why did TODAY find it necessary to re-publish the same article of WKS's interview regarding the white elephant t-shirts (with some additional comments from an MP Charles Chong) again in today's TODAY? Wasn't it thoroughly covered over in the weekend papers? Furthermore, it was the exact same comments.
Is this publication designed to drive home the tattered message to locals, the claim that our boys in blue DID THE RIGHT THING, however high-handed it may have been?
Does that mean the ruling party is not entirely convinced that Singaporeans were taken in by the sugar coatings from deputy PM Wong Kan Seng? That the police OVERREACTED and INSISTED ON PERMITS when NONE WERE needed?
Why praise them on speedy processing of permits when in the first place, NONE WERE REQUIRED? Trying to divert attention from the big picture and sweeping the 'big skeletons' under the carpet perhaps?
There also seems to be an unnerving habit of 'PARROT' MPs appearing in the aftermath, conveniently echoing WKS's remarks to cement those same comments. -
Salman???Originally posted by robertteh:The important thing is citizens are able to hold certain collective view on certain matters and they are not easily hoodwinked to accept hypocrisy or propaganda. This is at least better than the past when they accepted everything blindly what the government said and were taken for granted.
My two cents' worth. -
Yes, he apparently lives in the past and in his own world.Originally posted by SilverPal:Salman??? -
I do not claim to know much about the hiring process of the PAPman but I do realise that they find it more imperative to hire "yes men" than real workers. Everytime something happens (ie counter terrorist simulation, white elephants, peanuts), these "yes men" are activated and use the same media kit to reiterate to the public.Originally posted by charlize:Which makes you wonder if the MPs in Parliament are there to act as the voice of the general populace or just to act as the government's mouthpiece to appease and explain the rationale of questionable policies. -
Yes, indeed salman is a phenomenon in a system employing justifications, hypocrisy and strategy designed to contain dissents which is generally known as depolitisation, cooption and machination.Originally posted by SilverPal:Salman???
Under such a system, salmans would be sent to depolitise those with differring views from that of the authority by unprovoked invectives on forumers calling of names like liars, whiners and one-liner dismissive self-indulgent labelling of others with assumptions of one's own invincibility.
Salmans are not seen as interested in fair exchange on facts or logics as no matter how right someone's view about certain NKF may be, he would simply dismiss him with rhetoric retorts like "what are you talking about", "where are your facts or evidences",
Salmans said they are fond of "running circles around others", to expose lies but actually they have to make it appear normal trying to run down others' unpalatable views without unnecessary raised eyebrows.
The salman type of depolitising of others is by far the single most convenient way to cushion off problems, or buy time to assume self-invincibility, an eponym of the last spent force of autocracy that runs out of steam or ideas as people realized the truths and adopted the switched off mode of some sorts refusing to cooperative with uninspiring self-centred egotism.
Citizens are maturing no doubt and with greater maturity should see through vain display of self-adulations and self-indulgence, hypocrisy and degradation of our social values the irony of some 40 years of exceptional leadership.
Unless of course, PM LHL means what he solemnly said in his inaugural speech that he intends to involve everyone in giving views and suggestions without fear or favor to bring about an inclusive cosmopolitan society.
So far after seeing the salmans posts, there is no hopeful sign yet of that dream coming to fruition. -
Maybe one day, a political term will surface in the forums and internet to define such a phenomenon.Originally posted by robertteh:Yes, indeed salman is a phenomenon in a system employing justifications, hypocrisy and strategy designed to contain dissents which is generally known as depolitisation, cooption and machination.
Under such a system, salmans would be sent to depolitise those with differring views from that of the authority by unprovoked invectives on forumers calling of names like liars, whiners and one-liner dismissive self-indulgent labelling of others with assumptions of one's own invincibility.
Salmans are not seen as interested in fair exchange on facts or logics as no matter how right someone's view about certain NKF may be, he would simply dismiss him with rhetoric retorts like "what are you talking about", "where are your facts or evidences",
Salmans said they are fond of "running circles around others", to expose lies but actually they have to make it appear normal trying to run down others' unpalatable views without unnecessary raised eyebrows.
The salman type of depolitising of others is by far the single most convenient way to cushion off problems, or buy time to assume self-invincibility, an eponym of the last spent force of autocracy that runs out of steam or ideas as people realized the truths and adopted the switched off mode of some sorts refusing to cooperative with uninspiring self-centred egotism.
Citizens are maturing no doubt and with greater maturity should see through vain display of self-adulations and self-indulgence, hypocrisy and degradation of our social values the irony of some 40 years of exceptional leadership.
Unless of course, PM LHL means what he solemnly said in his inaugural speech that he intends to involve everyone in giving views and suggestions without fear or favor to bring about an inclusive cosmopolitan society.
So far after seeing the salmans posts, there is no hopeful sign yet of that dream coming to fruition.
We can call it "doing a salman". -
so the 1000 or so people wearing the same giordano t's are unlawful? en masse what...
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HDB made huge profits from its sale of flats and yet it is still trying to squeeze more and more profits by S-A-L-M-A-N-I-S-I-N-G the purchasers with wrongful resale levies.
It is ridiculous that citizens simply keep paying more and more profits to the HDB to no end.
Originally, in the early 1970s when HDB only charges construction costs in selling flats to people under the "Homeownership for the People" scheme at $6,200 for a 3-room standard flat and $7,800 for a 3-room improved flat, I fully agree with the levy to discourage people from taking advantage of subsidy by limiting any one who has bought HDB flat at original lowly-priced flats to one upgrading to a bigger flat or as HDB put it to one bite of the cherry.
In later years when HDB increases the price of 3-rm flat from $7,800 to $150,000 for a similar 3-rm flat and sells the 4-rm flat at $200,000, it is charging at full market price and any so-called discounts is only window dressing and not a subsidy.
HDB has lost the right from the late 1970s to say that it is subsidising its 3-rm or 4-rm sale flats. It is only through creative accounting that it is claiming to give subsidy the reason for collecting the resale or upgrading levy but it simply carried on the charging.
WP should consider adding one more item to the Manifesto : "to abolish the HDB levy and refund all levies to the purchasers especially after the HDB priced the sale prices to include land costs up to full market values and more especially after HDB resale prices have kept dropping from the HDB original sale prices.